Author Topic: More Art for You to Digest  (Read 9940 times)

charity

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Re: More Art for You to Digest
« Reply #45 on: November 16, 2007, 05:28:07 AM »
Spriggan...  :P

Yellow lover sounds better than orange lover anyway.

My husband, who doesn't really care at all, gave his opinion (since I made him) he says the white ones better too. Although he called it silver, which made me chuckle since we're on the topic of color identification. He also said it looks like she's smoking.

Queen Mother

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Re: More Art for You to Digest
« Reply #46 on: November 16, 2007, 12:02:56 PM »
I just finished reading Warbreaker chapters/draft/sample.  I was wondering if the breath colors could be the colors Vivena will be wearing...like maybe a gray faded area on the dress?  Or at least have the breath just the colors of her outfit. 

I don't like the Native American style of the dresses depicted.  I think her dress from the story was vibrant but she chose more covered styles...very prudent woman. 

And she does look kind of Asian...is that how you see her?  I see the people in the story as more Caucasian.

Shi

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Re: More Art for You to Digest
« Reply #47 on: November 16, 2007, 12:41:23 PM »
Ok, because it's driving me crazy and I can't tell on my screen, that's a ref pic that he drew over, isn't it?

Errent

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Re: More TITLES for You to Digest
« Reply #48 on: November 16, 2007, 01:01:36 PM »
After having an animated discussion about this (referring to the new title, not the new artwork) with Steve (NotBookstoreGuyAnymore) the other night, I feel the need to put some of our opinions onscreen.

Mythwalker is a great title . . . but not for this book.
The fact is that Spriggan's right. The majority of Brandon's books target females, and the title of MythWalker would simply topple the scales of the delicate balance of men/women interest. When I read the title for the first time I was struck by two things: First its cleverness, and second, its lack of force. Think about the two words themselves . . . a myth, and the verb to walk. Neither is all that powerful of a word. Myths conjure up SLOW images; age, time, and intangibility (a myth isn't FACT . . . it has a cloudy ethereal quality to it). And THEN we pair it with WALKING . . . a plain image. An ordinary verb. There isn't conflict in walking in the same way that there isn't solid fact to myth. It seems so bland and serene . . . and when combined with Myth, it creates a clever image in which the ghostly myth is given action . . . as though the myth is given life. But ultimately it's a rather boring, ordinary life . . . Mythwalking conjures up images of a somber task, a slow tread, a dedication which could take ages. Fascinating, yes, but it fits for a more sedate story which would be unappealing to most guys. (Interesting perhaps, but appealing?)

Slap that title along with that cover, and it will drag the book down. Men and women will be intrigued by the cover art, but the title won't have the power--the I'm-slapping-you-in-the-face-and-daring-you-to-read-me kind of power--that Warbreaker has. Guys'll be interested in what that girl is doing with that sword . . . but let's face it. She's sitting there . . . and then we're going to relate the story to "walking?" Pass. It makes the story seem to be the classic suffering woman tale. Completely Mercedes Lackey (Not that there is a problem with that, but the last thing I want is for Brandon to get pigeon-holed. Besides. . . Warbreaker has one of the more powerful male figures Brandon has used (or at least a male figure who isn't either a:intellectual or b:a complete bastard). Vasher is pure, unadulterated male. No hint of the scholar (though we hear it might have once been part of his history), or the coward, or the powerseeking male ego. Vasher is a powerful contrast to the female characters in Warbreaker (Cause as fun as the other male character is . . . he's pretty lacking in the action department as well).

Warbreaker may be a tad misleading, I was one of the first to admit it (in a similar lengthy reply,) but the fact is that it has a drawing influence. It tells the reader that stuff is going to happen here . . . and in a way, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. I was sort of surprised after finishing the book at how exciting and action packed I THOUGHT it had been. There really is a great deal of suspense and intrigue . . . and one of the main character's conflicts is centered around embarrassment (the little girls got some good spunk though)--but of action there is relatively little. I've mentioned before how all of the characters are removed from the war . . . Hell. The major threatening army isn't even LIVING. The catch to all of this is the TITLE. The title gave me a rush, and primed me . . . and because I went into the book feeling that it had already excited me, I was.

I realize that the Duology will be titled Warbreaker. But we ALL know that the Duology title will be in miniscule print. I don't know how the sequel is plotted, but I'm curious as to why Warbreaker couldn't be the title of the single work, and Mythwalker the title of the set. The first would draw readers into the series, and the second just SEEMS like it should apply to a longer, more enduring effort. Does the title warbreaker recur in the second book? After all, the character has MANY names . . . so it would seem fitting that one who "walks in the Myths" should have different titles based off of different myths. I always felt the character was playing a Warbreaker in the book, but had been fulfilling many mythological roles throughout his life.

That's my 2,000 cents. I'm sure NBGA (Steve) will add anything I've missed.

(Oh, and in regard to the art, I still love the progression. Though I DO wish there was more contrast and color. Part of me also wishes ther was some hint as to the  mediterranean setting. It's such a lush, gorgeous enviornment and would really distinguish the cover from typical fantasy medieval settings.)
« Last Edit: November 16, 2007, 02:17:54 PM by Errent »
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Bookstore Guy

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Re: More Titles/Art for You to Digest
« Reply #49 on: November 16, 2007, 04:21:46 PM »
Can i get an Amen?

The Title:
Obviously, I agree with my partner in crime, Errent.  One thing I want to make clear, I have NOT read the story.  I have no clue as to what it is about.  I have put off reading it because I like to sleep, and Brandon's stories tend to thwart that objective.  Having not read the story, and purposely avoiding threads that discuss it's content, I am in the position that most buyers are in.  If I saw that book on the shelves of a bookstore with the title Mythwalker, I would wonder if Mercedes Lackey had a new pen-name.  It is the automatic association that pummels my mind.  I have nothing against Mercedes Lackey.  I understand that she is a great author, and...she's published and Im not.  Like I stated in a previous post, I like the contrast the title Warbreaker brings to the table.  It sounds like a David Gemmel title - aka awesome.  It will FORCE people to pick the book up.  When combined with that cover, you have more potential people grabbing the book.  Both Errent (Rob) and I feel that the title Mythwalker as a main title would alienate a large portion of readers.

The Art:
Now, since people are commenting on the color aspect of the magic system, then colors seem appropriate.  If this is indeed the case, bright colors may be the way to go.  Could there be a version where the color is draining from her dress?  With color being this important to the concept of the book, I can see why many people would like the more colorful cover.  I would go along with that. 

I would like to hear EUOL's thoughts on all these opinions.
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pengwenn

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Re: More Art for You to Digest
« Reply #50 on: November 16, 2007, 05:23:47 PM »
I'm glad you mentioned the new title because I didn't even take in to account the title change when looking at the pictures.  Now that I do here's my thoughts.  When I see the name Mythwalker as the name of a story I think of of a Native American (NA) fantasy story.  Similiar to a Dreamwalker type of person.  When I look at the cover (and it had the name Mythwalker on it) I would definitely think it was a NA fantasy novel. 

The tourquoise color on the dress especially points that way IMO and even more so when it's on the orange dress instead of the white one.  I don't have anything against NA fantasy fiction but it's not high up on my interest list.  It seems to be a VERY small niche of the general fantasy genre.  With the title Mythwalker and either one of those dresses on the cover (but especially the orange one) I think readers would think it's a NA fantasy and pass it over.

This thought process for readers might only occur in certain markets.  I live in AZ so that's why I picked up on it.  Of course there might be some people who pick up the book with that title and cover expecting a NA fantay and might be disappointed in that the story didn't meet that criteria (but not disappointed in BS's writing style I'm sure).

Bookstore Guy

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Re: More Art for You to Digest
« Reply #51 on: November 16, 2007, 05:56:21 PM »
I dont get a Native American vibe.  That seems to be more of a personal thing.  As far as Native American Fantasy, there aren't that many, so I don't see that as an issue at all from a sales standpoint.
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Sigyn

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Re: More Art for You to Digest
« Reply #52 on: November 16, 2007, 06:33:14 PM »
The orange/yellow dress is better, but not with turquoise.  I'm sorry, but it looks too native american and I personally find that a turn off.  Also, I liked the blood in the original and I think that should come back. Third, this really doesn't look like a romance novel cover to me.  All romance covers I've seen have a girl and a guy or no people at all, oddly.
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charity

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Re: More Art for You to Digest
« Reply #53 on: November 16, 2007, 09:34:38 PM »
  Also, I liked the blood in the original and I think that should come back.

hmm, interesting statement....

VegasDev

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Re: More Art for You to Digest
« Reply #54 on: November 16, 2007, 10:13:59 PM »
Well, I have been photoshopping the picture for some time now and I still like the white better.

I removed the breath (it just clashes too much) and put the dress, the dress sleeves & chest, sword & tassle, torso and title all on different layers so that it would be easier experimenting with different color adjustments.

I kept coming back to the white or a slight variant, which is funny because I am usually a color person. A touch of Magenta in her dress really brought out her skin tones but I'm not sure that is the best effect.

The best color changes came with a variation of the sleeves and chest rather than the dress itself.

Overall though, it is looking good.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2007, 10:15:48 PM by VegasDev »
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Peter Ahlstrom

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Re: More Art for You to Digest
« Reply #55 on: November 17, 2007, 12:18:35 AM »
I agree with Errent and NaBGA about Warbreaker being a better title for this book than Mythwalker.
I'm curious as to why Warbreaker couldn't be the title of the single work, and Mythwalker the title of the set.
As I wrote on the blog comments, I'm not sure why the duology needs a title at all. We know from the start it's only going to be two books; couldn't the 2nd book just be "NIGHTBLOOD" with "the sequel to warbreaker" in small type under it? Adding stuff like "the chronicles of the" and whatnot seems a bit overboard for this series.
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Re: More Art for You to Digest
« Reply #56 on: November 17, 2007, 10:01:48 PM »
I feel a bit offended. I like Mercedes Lackey. I don't think the cover looks Mercedes Lackey at all. I'm looking at a 500 kingdoms books, Elvenbane, and The Outstretched Shadow - and I just don't get it.

It's a lot different from Brandon's other books though, which seem a lot more interesting to me because of the interesting backgrounds, but you can still tell that one thing is the focal point. The one thing I don't like about Mercedes Lackey's covers is that her name and the title seem to just overpower everything. Not so with Brandon's books.
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Re: More Art for You to Digest
« Reply #57 on: November 17, 2007, 11:24:31 PM »
First things first. I wouldn't buy this book with any of these covers. It looks too romantic-y like several people have said.

Did we decide who was on the cover? This is way to uncovered for Viv but Siri never had a sword or any more breath than her own. But Siri did live in the black palace thing. She never wore the dress there except to enter the room. I just don't feel like the cover fits the story at all. I think I should at least be able to tell who the person is supposed to be.

Otherwise it's pretty!
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Errent

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Re: More Art for You to Digest
« Reply #58 on: November 18, 2007, 01:54:16 AM »
Swiggly,

The LAST thing I intended was any offense, please forgive me. As I mentioned above, there isn't a problem with Mercedes Lackey. She's a fabulous author. As NBGA has correctly stated, niether he nor I have been published, while her publishing record is a fabulous testament to her abilities. That said, the majority of her covers are similar (anything co-written is slightly different as I will get to below.) It's not an insult, its just fact. Many have the same style, but even more evoke the same MOOD. Again, as mentioned above . . . I'm not saying that the style or mood of the covers have anything to do with her writing ability. The problem is that the style and mood of ANY cover will grant a first impression, whether or not that impression is true of the book's style or mood.

Let's examine some of the covers firsthand, so perhaps you can see why I used HER covers as an example and not someone else's. I should also throw in a caveat here--interestingly enough, it is usually the books co-written that diverge from the usual style and mood of her covers (Andre Norton seemed to dominate the cover's of their co-written books, and I have to confess that anything co-written with James Mallory has an AMAZING cover.) I realize that chasing covers can be a bit messy, so the best source I've found has been http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/l/mercedes-r-lackey/ . . . though I'm sure there are COUNTLESS covers that we'll be missing.

First, Elvenbane. The Halfblood Chronicles were co-written with Andre Norton, an old favorite of mine . . . you can see her influence heavily in these covers. In fact, were the authors names not on the cover, I would have pegged them as Norton. They resemble the Witchworld books in style . . . MOOD however, is a different story. The second book in the series has a solid scene of action on the cover, which implies more (you guessed it) action. The first and third however . . . have relatively weak looking dragons (the one on the third cover is GRINNING.) They also contain a woman seemingly lacking in any conflict. She doesn't appear brave, strong, pained, sacrificing, courageous, cowering, or even about to DO anything. She's reclining in the first cover, and appears to be telling the dragon in the third cover some hilarious anecdote ( Part of me wants to throw this out to the forum for hilarious inserts . . . what IS she saying? ". . . and then SHE was like . . ."). While these covers may have NOTHING to do with the content of the books themselves, they definately give a first impression. Oh sure, I'd like to read these . . . right after I get through War and Peace. I'm still interested, but the first impression knocks the book down on my list of must-reads.

The Outstretched Shadow has a Fabulous cover, and covers get better with each sequel. The characters may not be involved in action, but there is a hint of conflict: the characters are standing at attention. In addition, there's a unicorn that doesn't appear to be resting, tossing its head, or enamored with a woman; it actually looks ready to fight--I didn't even know those types of unicorns existed! These things set a powerful mood. The style of the covers is very detailed, and a bit grainy. It lends a more realistic feel to the impression . . . pulls the casual glancer into the story with it's dark, but contrasting colors. This series would be the first of Lackey's that I would pick up. It just screams tension, action, and powerful characters caught in action and plot.

500 Kingdoms . . . Do I REALLY have to explain these ones? Airy, ethereal. Light and full of pastels. The style of the covers doesn't scream anything, but whispers saccharinely. The majority of the covers are taken up by Lackey's NAME, followed closely by profiled body shots of women who seem to have everything in hand. No conflict there whatsoever, and I probably wouldn't enjoy the self-assured, dialogue of these characters. Again . . . the content might be completely different . . . but first impressions are everything. I'm lemon lawing these unless I happen to have a young daughter to read them to.

You're right . . . of the books you were looking at, there is QUITE a variance. Bear in mind however, that two of the three were co-written . . . the one that wasn't was distinct (in a way which is off-putting to your average male reader)

Glance over the other covers at that sight. The mood conveyed is pretty consistent, and though the style does differ . . . it doesn't differ much. Lots of horses. Lots of individuals standing at attention looking majestic, or defiant (in a teenage kind of way.) The characters all look the same . . . oh there are different hair colors and outfits, but a powerful story needs more than just superficial cosmetics. A cover isn't any different. Not a lot of conflict or action, nor a sense of setting. They're very passive, light, and the style isn't very unique. One would imagine that with the beginning of a new series the style and mood would change, but it doesn't. Purples, Dark Reds, Light Blues, Golds.
Valdemar, Bedlam, Bardic, Elemental Masters, Dariens Tales, 500 Kingdoms and Dragon Jousters ALL have that mood and have similar styles.

So again Swiggly, please know that my opposition is not to Mercedes Lackey, but to her cover art. I think that it pigeon holes her, and keeps a lot of potential readers away because of their first impressions. I have to agree with you about Brandon's covers (the paperback Mistborn excluded), they have interesting backgrounds and a solid focal point. They have ACTION and Conflict. The Mood and Style are intriguing. There is more emphasis on art (read story) than on title and author (read commercialism.) There is a sense of something unique about each cover. I feel like this Warbreaker cover has some serious potential to interest both male and female readers, and I'd hate for a title to counteract that. I hope I've managed to emend instead of exacerbate any offense I gave. I'm sorry if there was any confusion.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2007, 03:37:36 AM by Errent »
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Peter Ahlstrom

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Re: More Art for You to Digest
« Reply #59 on: November 18, 2007, 03:12:35 AM »
Andre Norton is female (or was, since she died 2 years ago). Her original name was Alice Mary Norton.
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