Author Topic: A compairison of chrachters' deaths in the works of B. Sanderson ** SPOILERS**  (Read 2621 times)

vadia

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SPOILERS

Given the works I have seen so far in B. Sanderson, I have found that only in Elantris was I affected by character's deaths. 
Why?

Let us first look at the deaths in Elantris.   Saolin was the first to die, we were just getting to know him and see that he was probably going to be severely injured, but I thought "hey he'd be brought back by the end -- every Elantris citizen would come back -- just you watch!."  So, when he died and they led him to the lake, and Rao mourned over him so bitterly, I was touched. 
The head of the military and Raoil died, but for some reason I didn't feel much connection to them.  Maybe I felt some for Raoil, but I did not sense anything especially noteworthy about him.
Katara was killed next (as far as I recall, maybe there were some minor characters I don't recall), but for her the death was really quite quick -- in the self proclaimed Brandon Avalanche, if I recall, and I did not mourn her. 
Hrathren, while I didn't feel any grief over his death, per se, was the character I best knew of the set of dead characters, but he was a villain -- shockingly his death touched me the most of all.  Having turned from logic and obedience to faith and morality, from a villain to a hero and being Eulogized for it in his own words -- well even now writing about it -- I am moved.

In Warbreaker the princess's sidekick is killed by the three mercs, but the shocking realization that the mercs were possibly the only villians per se in the whole book and the whole speed of the scene kept me from feeling his death there.  Furthermore, the death occurred off screen.  Finally the side-kick was just beginning to maybe become a character in my mind with his bitterness about being taken for granted, but I don't think that he had become "real" in my eyes.

As for Mistborn, I felt that Kelsier would die from very early on in the book -- there were two Mistborn, one we got the whole view of, and one we didn't, Kelsier was obsessed about "powerful religions" -- which told me of his martyr streak and finally, I knew there was a sequel forthcoming and Kelsier had no place in that sequel because as Vin wonders, "Would any man be able to relinquish that kind of power?"  Furthermore Kelsier's death was in the middle of the action with little time given to mourning.

So, given B. Sanderson's books as a model for understanding my emotions in the place of literature, a death of a character to have an affect on a reader ought to take into account these things:
  • The reader must be famillar with and like the character
  • The death should happen on screen enough for it to fully register
  • The death should be mourned by the other characters or at least be given its own time for mourning
  • Forshadowing can be used to heighten or detract from the power of the death

Given thought on those principles an author can more able to decide how to make the deaths that they want to be mourned more potent.

dawncawley

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I understand where you are coming from, but that being said, I respectfully disagree, with some of your points.

The point that Kel was bound to die, I agree with, but the lack of mourning I disagree with. There is personal mourning on the part of his crew, and his brother, while the fake Kel is running around becoming immortal. At least that is the gist of what he is doing, I think. But, for me there was mourning there, and even though I knew it was going to happen I was still moved by it.

Perhaps you are right about Peprin. I really didn't feel much attachment to him, but I fear for the others, and Clod seems to be at least as important as Peprin, if not more so in my estimation. Don't ask me why I feel that way, I probably couldn't explain it coherently. For that I apologize.

I do agree with your comments about the deaths in Elantris, but would add the ones that died when Raoden was exposed to the list of deaths that I felt. I am sorry that it has been so long since I read the book, and so much school in the middle, that I have forgotten the names, but I felt they were important and I mourned their loss. Not to an extreme, but I did feel the loss of them when they were gone.

Hopefully, my thoughts made some sense. It is way past my bedtime, but this was such an interesting topic. I hope I kept it lively enough.

dreamking47

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I agree about Peprin in Warbreaker, although remember what we've been reading are just early drafts so it's not quite equivalent to the two published books as an example.  Hopefully by the time the book is published Peprin and his relationship to Vivenna, and Vivenna's reaction to his death, will all be fleshed out a little more.  I also would suggest however that his death is not meant to be comparable in emotional impact to a death like Hrathen's (who BTW I respected but never "liked").  I wouldn't be at all surprised if there is death to come in Warbreaker that does better fit your principles.

MattD
"It had blood in it.  That makes it a good metaphor." -- Tonk Fah, in EUOL's Warbreaker

vadia

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I agree about Peprin in Warbreaker, although remember what we've been reading are just early drafts so it's not quite equivalent to the two published books as an example.  Hopefully by the time the book is published Peprin and his relationship to Vivenna, and Vivenna's reaction to his death, will all be fleshed out a little more.  I also would suggest however that his death is not meant to be comparable in emotional impact to a death like Hrathen's (who BTW I respected but never "liked").  I wouldn't be at all surprised if there is death to come in Warbreaker that does better fit your principles.

MattD

No, quite the opposite, Peprin may not be somebody B. Sanderson wished for us to mourn.  That is an important part of the "principles" -- it allows one to decide more fully whether the reader will mourn the character or not. 
Because of his placement in the book (beginning of avalanche) mourning Peprin may be quite disruptive to the action flow.

EUOL

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Good points, and very interesting, Vadia.

The truth is, for Peprin, I haven't yet decided if it will be worth the effort--and the work it will take in the novel--to make him sympathetic.  I wrote the book intending him to have an effect on the reader in the same way someone killing a puppy might--he was so harmless and friendly that killing him was supposed to make Denth's villainy even more shocking.  However, since Peprin isn't a very strong character, the death also lacks something.  I never intended it to feel like you were losing a friend, or even dwell on the death.  I just wanted it to be shocking.  I think it fills this purpose, but I can't decide if I want to try for more or not.

Some people at book signings have been upset with me for killing Kelsier.  Yet, they always admit that his death was good, and if I push it doesn't really bother them that he's gone.  They're mad about his death because they liked reading about him, and wanted to see him in future books.  Hrathen, Seolin, and Karata, however, have all seemed to inspire some real mourning in readers. 
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vadia

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Although it's probably better in some ways to post this in Warbreaker; I think that it would disrupt the story flow to have us mourn over Peprin.

Elantris was a much more pondering book and therefore a break in the flow was the flow.  In Warbreaker (especially at that point) Peprin is an effective way to have a shoking torture (though it is quick enough that I mostly felt like Vivena's shock, myself.