Author Topic: Combat  (Read 11147 times)

Entsuropi

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Combat
« on: August 09, 2005, 06:37:44 PM »
For the combat section, I suggest something along the lines of a simple contested dice roll. Each unit gives a certain number of advantage points, as does factors like terrain and such.  

Example:
Player A has 1 fighter launcher platform, 5 frigates and 3 cruisers. He has attached 4 squadrons of fighters to the fleet.

Fighters = 1 each.
Frigates = 3 each.
Cruisers = 8 each.
Fighter Launcher, due to it's ability to coordinate and control fighter squadrons better, has an advantage points equal to the fighter squadrons total. Note that I like the idea of interlocking bonuses - like having tanks that have a higher score if there is APC mounted infantry in the same army.

Total is 4 + 15 + 24 + 4 = 47.  

His opponent (Player B) has something similar, resulting in 35 advantage points. However, player A is attacking a system controlled by Player B, who had the foresight to construct a minefield around the jump gate. This gives him a +2 advantage point bonus on the first combat fought in the system after it's construction (one time bonus only). He now has 37.  

The players each roll a dice, lets say a D100 divided by half. Player 1 gets 23, and player 2 gets 35. Totalled, they get:
Player 1: 47 + 23 = 70.
Player 2: 35 + 37 = 72.  

Player 2 has won the combat, and maintains his hold over the system. The difference in scores could be used to determine how many ships were lost on each side.

Just an idea. It is simple, fairly fast I suppose, and can be easily swapped out for something else if desired. A ground combat version could be similar, but should be configured to the specifications of the game. A game of 40k should have endless ground wars, represented by slow attrition style battles. Star Trek, however, should have ground battles be very quick to represent the series's dislike of showing bloody warfare on that scale.
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Re: Combat
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2005, 09:26:25 PM »
I like what I see here.  Here are some thing I've thought of, just generally:

1. Fleets can be divided into squadrons and assigned orders during combat.  Action is resolved squadron vs. squadron.

2. The combat system should be able to take into account new technology.  For instance, units should be able to be created via a balanced point system and given abilities like Heavy Shields, Ion Cannon, Assault, Interceptor, etc.

3. I like the idea of interlocking bonuses.  Another good example would be bombardment ships offering a bonus to ground base combatants.

4. Ground based combat should be fought on three fronts.  The attacking and defending players divide their forces between each of these fronts and each front has its combat resolved.  You must win at least two fronts to take a planet.

Entsuropi

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Re: Combat
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2005, 06:48:54 AM »
Your ideas adds a lot of complexity. Are you sure you want to slow the game down like that?

Though i like the 3 fronts idea. Perhaps different genres can just have more fronts - star trek only having 1, compared to 40k having 5 or 7.
If you're ever in an argument and Entropy winds up looking staid and temperate in comparison, it might be time to cut your losses and start a new thread about something else :)

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Legion

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Re: Combat
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2005, 10:10:40 AM »
With the advantage points you could have upgrades increase a units point lvl, so a base  Cruisers has 8 points, but can have upgrades to raises its lvl to 12.
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Mr_Pleasington

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Re: Combat
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2005, 01:18:14 PM »
Quote
Your ideas adds a lot of complexity. Are you sure you want to slow the game down like that?

Though i like the 3 fronts idea. Perhaps different genres can just have more fronts - star trek only having 1, compared to 40k having 5 or 7.



It adds complexity, yes, but it also adds strategy.  Otherwise, you just build up the biggest fleet you can without thinking of how it interacts.  Without making some tactical decisions during battle it becomes a very non-interactive combat game.

Mr_Pleasington

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Re: Combat
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2005, 02:04:54 AM »
So in my free time I've been bouncing around ideas about the combat system, as it is the next great hurdle.  What keeps tripping me up is that I'm trying to find the compromise between just having Attack, Defense, etc. stats and something that allows techs to be a little more fun.

Y'know, a starship might have ionic shielding but a ship with a Frequency Harmonizing beam may be able to bypass that.

Finding the balance is really, really tricky.

Legion

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Re: Combat
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2005, 09:33:36 AM »
What about if you have in a military research, a race is able to research 3 different types of shield and types of weapons.  A ship can only have 1 kind of the 3, but each ship can pick when the tech is researched.

1)  Photon------> Strong against Ion ||| Weak against
                            Frequency
2)  Ion------------> Strong against Frequency |||
                            weak against Photon
3) Frequency ---> Strong against Photon || weak against Ion
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JP Dogberry

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Re: Comba
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2005, 10:12:53 AM »
I think you're underplaying the importance Morale plays in a combat situation. Now, because of this, a ship should not have it's statistics based on how many weapons and shields it has, but rather the amount of Ale and Wenches on board.
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Re: Combat
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2005, 10:31:08 AM »
I think the rock/scissors/paper thing has been done, legion. I know I'm not participating a lot, but perhaps you could move it to 5 levels?
ion is weekest against photon, slightly better against antimatter, balanced against (or even better, negated by) ion, pretty decent against projectiles, and rips the tar out of frequency.

I'm just making up names and relationships out of my butt, but I think that communicates the idea. Yeah, it makes things a little longer to figure out, but 5 levels is still pretty easy to handle, and it becomes more than a rock/scissors/paper game.

My favorite scenario is that a form of energy cannot penetrate a defense made of the same energy, at least not after some serious overloading. Thus ships can have a primary weapon and a secondary weapon. Or perhaps a sliding scale of size. each weapon or defense takes up 1 unit of space. Thus, the smallest ship has one 1 unit of space, an can choose either a weapon or a defense matrix. The largest ships can have10 spaces, allowing them to have a defense and a weapon of each type. Or you can reduce that value to 6 or 7, stating that ships large enough to have weapons useful for their size and have more than that many types of weapon/defense requires too much energy to be maintainable.

I think about the system I liked for Star ship conbat best, "Star Warriors" and it was pretty simple, though. One type of shield, just varying damage for weapons. The beauty of that system was maneuvering. I recommend adapting something like that and adding some complexity to the weapon/defense mechanics.

Legion

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Re: Combat
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2005, 10:42:32 AM »
I like the idea about ship size and amount of different weaponery on it, the reason why I went with only 3 different weapons is just to make it simplier, but if you think that having more would not complicate it to much go for it.  Also the idea that an Ion gun can not damage an Ion shielded ship would make it very intresting.
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Entsuropi

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Re: Combat
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2005, 12:51:33 PM »
You have to remember, this is a PBEM game. Over complexity will just stun the players.

Here is what i thought up. It's PBEM, so dice are out. What about orders? You'd need a GM of some kind to adjudicate it, but if you could choose from say Strong Attack, Mild Attack, Defend, Take and Hold or similar things - like the Special Orders from BFG - they might do different things. Like mild attack (being a probing, careful assault)  will defeat defend, but a strong attack will stop it. Strong Attack (a brute rush) will defeat mild attack, but fail against defend.

Something like that. It adds interactivity, and strategy (how has this player resolved the situation in the past?, maybe some repercussions of the various things (even if you annihilate the enemy with Strong Attack, it leaves you out of place so an additional enemy fleet can nip around behind you and attack the planet anyway sort of thing). It also deals with the no-dice thing.
If you're ever in an argument and Entropy winds up looking staid and temperate in comparison, it might be time to cut your losses and start a new thread about something else :)

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Re: Combat
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2005, 02:33:04 PM »
No, actually dice are in...just not many.  Each phase of a combat round should be resolved in one roll.  

I'm not a big fan of the rock/paper/scissors stuff as I'd like for the design system to be broad enough for players to develop their own weapon systems.  

Like I said, there's a lot of factors I'm considering here.  Keep throwing ideas out people, it's helping.

Entsuropi

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Re: Combat
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2005, 02:35:25 PM »
But why dice? That assumes that players have them to hand, and it's not really needed, with the use of clever systems.
If you're ever in an argument and Entropy winds up looking staid and temperate in comparison, it might be time to cut your losses and start a new thread about something else :)

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Re: Combat
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2005, 02:37:13 PM »
Because I like the idea of randomness, otherwise battles would be almost predetermined.  If you can design me a system that doesn't use dice, adds some randomness, and keeps stategy in the battle, I'd certainly consider using it.

Legion

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Re: Combat
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2005, 03:12:44 PM »
if you want to get nice and fancy with this game, could you make the dice system part of the page.....if it is going to take place in a forum, you make a button that posts a random number that is between x and y.  This number will only be seen when posted, and can not be changed....not sure if this is possible
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