Hello

[Domini]

Hello everyone!  

I'm a n00b, don't harass me too much or I might harass back.

Just kidding.  ::tiptoes around the oldies::

I just finished Elantris, so I went looking for the official webpages and the like, and found myself here.

Oddly enough, a friend of mine the other day had a post in his blog about how many author websites were so...bad.  Espeically considering SF&F writers are supposed to be the thinkers, the ones interested in the cutting edge--and yet so many of the official sites were static, boring, and never utalizing the potential of the internet to let an author reach his or her readers.  He thought that was a very sad thing.

I'm happy that's not the case here.  Kudos to you, Mr. Sanderson, for having a nice website, and a nice forum.  

Oh, and a good book.

I just finished my first read-through of Elantris, and I can see why Tor snapped it up.  It's nice to see fantasy that's not in the same-old same-old setting...and I think I agree with EUOLogy #17, about Tolkien.  ::nods::  Even if one isn't a fan of Tolkien, such as myself, so many are, and so many base their fantasy books ever-so-slightly on him, and even if you never read Tolkien you are exposed (tainted?) as a writer by the echos of his work in other authors' works.  It's very very difficult to find and root out of your own work, because normally if you write SFF, you've read a whole lot of it too, and one influences the other.

Ack...went on an aside there.

I like Elantris.  I'm not...I'm not CRAZY about it, but that is because of personal likes and dislikes, and not because of the book itself.  It's a very....a very solid fantasy book.  It has a lot of good things, but not the little bit that makes me, personally, totally fascinated/obsessed by it as a reader.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if future books do make me a crazy and obsessed fan.  It's always fun obsessing about things.

Elantris reminds me a lot of Robert Silverburg's Majipor (sp?) books.  I haven't read those in 5 or 6 years, but Raoden's character reminded me of the what's-his-name-cheerful-lost-prince-dude.  Valentine.  It's probably superficial as I recall very little of those books...I think it's more the "feel" of Elantris that reminds me of them.

When reading Elantris, I noticed how while it was fantasy, it obviously did not follow in the footsteps of most high fantasy exactly.  I could feel the amount thought that went into descriptions of things.

And because most ordinary fantasy has made me a bit of a sheep, I underestimated Mr. Sanderson's intelligence several times when reading despite that.  The first time when the slime in Elantris was mentioned--I was wondering how an entire city becomes covered in slime, and dismissed it at first as a way to make the city scary and dark (how many books make everything evil scary-looking and twisted?).  I was very glad when that wasn't (entirely) the case and that there was a reason behind it!    Rotting slime mold is a good reason, at least to me.  The second time was when the political system was described--how could a man smart enough to make money set up a system where people were serfs...and yet the lords were merchents?  You'd eventually end up with lords buying from and selling to lords, wouldn't you, as serfs don't really get paid and therefore can't really buy?  I smelled a plot hole--but the King's will at the end proved me wrong there too.  Yay!

There were a few other moments when I thought I had spotted a plot hole or cliche, but most if not all (I don't recall) were resolved, so I'm a content reader.

One problem I had, and this is probably what makes me respect the book a lot but not be fanatical about it as I am with other books, is that while the characters weren't stupid, and were described quite well so I got grand mental images of them, and had nice banter with one another, everyone got along quite well with one another...there was no subtext beneath or between characters, or at least not that I could feel.  Character interactions were very...honest.  If they disliked each other, they disliked each other--no inbetweens.  When there was some falseness going on, it was in a "good cause", and the reader was clued in to what was up fairly quickly.

Of course, I'm a huge fan of Robin Hobb and she's known to torture, kill multiple times, and do all sorts of horribly emotionally-wrecking things to her characters, and I tend to like a streak of darkness and angst like that in my books.  So this is the opinion of one reader.

Another thing I noticed--and I haven't decided if it's a flaw or a positive, so take it as you will--is that the story was very...well-pruned.  It had a start, a middle, and an end, and each tendril arced from start to finish and was very tidy at the end.  The overall structure of the novel was very defined.  Like an Aon perhaps?  I can't decide if it was over-pruned, or if it is what it is, or if it was intentionally supposed to be like Elantris--almost too perfect to be real.

Anyway, my thoughts on the book/story itself.

[Domini]

Moving on.  Characters.

Aside from what I mentioned above, I liked most of the characters.  However, I skipped most of Hrathen's chapters...again, underestimating Mr. Sanderson's intelligence...I read the bit about him being a savior and went, "Oh no, another evil villian monologue chapter!  Skip, skip, skip."

Why yes, I'm a jaded reader.  

I promise to go back and read those skipped chapters, because I think I misjudged.

Aside from Hrathen, I liked most of the characters.  Very distinct from one another.

Of course, ya had to go off and kill my favorite one--[edited for spoilers] :p

I was interested in Raoden's story, and enjoyed his Dula companion.  I was interested in Serene's story too, although I did recheck the gender of Mr. Sanderson early on, because I don't see many men writing female characters like her.  More kudos!

I did have the misfortune of assigning C3PO's voice to Ashe in my head, though...not that that's anyone's fault but my own.  ::bangs head on wall:: I hate it when I do something like that.  I'll forever "hear" his voice as spoken by C3PO.

::thinks:: What else do I have to say?  I figure if I say it in one post, you can contain it all here without it infecting other threads.

Oh!  I liked the marriages of state.  There's a "tradition" in fantasy of characters moping and groaning about them, running away, and ending up marrying someone else who is their True Love.  But Serene didn't even blink when the idea of her marrying Roial came up.  Very cool.  I like cliche-busting.  And characters actually doing things for their kingdoms.  

Hmmm...I think that's all the major thoughts I had while reading.

Very good and solid book.  Thank you for writing it.

Apologies if plopping down a post like this is inappropriate; I admit that I've not really read all the threads here, looking for the tone of the board.

~~Domini

[Fellfrosch]

Welcome to the boards, and thanks for introducing yourself. Looks to me like you'll fit right in. I am going to edit the slight spoiler you revealed, hope you don't mind. Please post more, and don't forget to read the FAQ (though you write as if you've already read it, so hooray).

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

Love your Avatar Domini,...

So, what do you think your favorite passage of the book was,... or if you didnt have a standout favorite was there any particular moment where you just had to stop and go, wow I really wasn't expecting that?

[Chimera]

Yay, another girl on the board! And the fact that you posted in the introduce yourself section and here also makes me happy (so many people register but then don't actually contribute anything to the community. Everyone tells me that this is common, and that newbies can be annoying anyways, but I like meeting new people, so I'm glad you're here and seem willing to discuss intelligently).

Welcome, Domini!  

Oh, there was a thread I started in this section about favorite characters that you might be interested in reading. It died awhile ago when it became a discussion of the religion of Elantris (and both sides eventually admitted that the religion was made up, and nothing concrete could really be proven). Either way, you might find it enjoyable.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

/me resurrects the superfly girls club thread..

just kidding.

Anyway, as for thinking you've found a plot hole, I can't tell you the number of times I've thought then when reading a Sanderson manuscript, and then been proved wrong. He's good at that. And you'd think I'd learn. But then, if you REALLY thought that, you don't know me very well.

[Entsuropi]

Another thing I noticed--and I haven't decided if it's a flaw or a positive, so take it as you will--is that the story was very...well-pruned.  It had a start, a middle, and an end, and each tendril arced from start to finish and was very tidy at the end.  The overall structure of the novel was very defined.  Like an Aon perhaps?  I can't decide if it was over-pruned, or if it is what it is, or if it was intentionally supposed to be like Elantris--almost too perfect to be real.

I noticed that as well. I got the impression that EUOL was trying his best to avoid having to write a sequel.

Character interactions were very...honest.  If they disliked each other, they disliked each other--no inbetweens.

This is probably because EUOL is too damn nice for his own good. He needs to go and be bitter at someone.

[Sigyn]

About this character emotional honesty thing, I'm not quite sure I understand what you [Domini] mean.  Are you saying that the characters either liked each other or didn't with no imbetween? Or are you saying that their likes and dislikes were too out in the open without feelings that they are hiding from other people? or from themselves?

As for EUOL needing to be bitter, no, I don't think so. Characters can have all sorts of interesting bits to their personalities and still not be bitter. Or perhaps I'm just having trouble with Entropy's word choice.

[stacer]

I think that's what's refreshing about EUOL's work, honestly. It drives me crazy that the plot device of non-communication is used to such extremes in fiction, especially fantasy. Robert Jordan is a great example of that--if the characters would just have a war council/correlation meeting every week or so, and TALK to each other, and not hide everything so they could plot to their advantage, they'd have beaten the bad guy five books ago.

[Entsuropi]

Stacer, thats what idealists say about modern politics. But still, countries hide and scheme and plot, to their advantage. Why? Because they think it's a good idea, because they can.

Jordan takes it too far, I agree. But to not have it at all feels... idealistic and odd.

[Reigheena]

Hi! I'm new here too. I read Elantris a week or so ago (staying up until 4am to finish it). I don't really know why I got so sucked into it. Maybe I was just enjoying trying to figure out the plots before Brandon revealed them. (I got some, but kudos to Brandon for still managing to surprise me). And maybe it was the fact that its been a while since I've read a good fantasy book. (Being in a writing group destroyed my ability to enjoy mediocre novels, but then, maybe that's not such a bad thing). I also liked Sarene. She was strong, but also human. She definitely reminded me of myself and my best friend.

That said, I'll also venture out onto a limb and say that there were some things (mostly involving characters) about the book that annoyed me. unfortunately, most of them are spoilers and so can't be discussed here. I'm also hesitant to criticize the book, since the last time I criticized a webcomic, I got ripped apart for not thinking like everybody else. I do have faith that people here are more receptive though :: crosses fingers ::

I guess I will mention one thing. In the first part of the book, I set myself up to hate Hrathen, since you always hate the villain. But i remember finishing part one and thinking "I can't hate this guy!" and it was a let down. Guess it just goes to show that a good villain goes a long way.

Still, this was an enjoyable book, and I hope to write something like it someday. (well, not in the sense that I'll have silver skinned characters, but in that I'll be able to write something unique and enjoyable. And I wouldn't say no to similar success.   )

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

I think, as in most things, there should be a balance. Jordan's use of it isn't comparable to the way nations treat each other. Some nations like each other. And those nations share SOME information. Jordan's characters don't share ANYTHING even when a retarded frog stoned out of its mind would know that sharing that bit of information would be a good idea. THAT feels odd to me.

On the other hand, there are a number of authors whose characters share everythign about their darkest secrets to random strangers they meet in unsavory locations. This also is entirely unrealistic.

People don't share everything about themselves and all they know (well, some do, but those people are annoying). But they also don't hide things from people when talking about it would be to their advantage. And not EVERYONE is distrustful and laconic.

[Spriggan]

. I'm also hesitant to criticize the book, since the last time I criticized a webcomic, I got ripped apart for not thinking like everybody else. I do have faith that people here are more receptive though :: crosses fingers ::

You're allowed to Criticize EUOL's writing if you have the appropriate license, which can be purchased via me for $30 (pay pal and most major credit cards accepted). This is for the rites to critique Elantris, each additional book will cost you $30 as well.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

I *like* the idea of a likable villain. Maybe that's why I found Elantris interesting.

[Reigheena]

You're allowed to Criticize EUOL's writing if you have the appropriate license, which can be purchased via me for $30 (pay pal and most major credit cards accepted). This is for the rites to critique Elantris, each additional book will cost you $30 as well.

Does this license include the right to give away spoilers? Remember, most of my criticisms involve spoilers. And does it allow me to deal with the characters in any way I choose, including death and worse? All with a guarantee of no retribution from the author and any of his fans? That could be fun... :: devil face ::

And as for a likeable villain, I think its good, as it blurs the line between good and evil. It adds a bit of intrigue, which is always good in my book. That bit, I did like in Elantris. What I didn't like was that when Hrathen takes a certain drink, it made him appear weak, and that ruined the respect I had for him. It came back somewhat in later chapters, but not completely.