Author Topic: Warbreaker: Free Ebook  (Read 234644 times)

EUOL

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Re: Warbreaker Sample Chapters
« Reply #150 on: September 21, 2006, 06:54:48 PM »
Joe,

Thanks for the comments!  They are very useful.  And, I'm sorry about the editing!  You're seeing ROUGH stuff, I know. If you did do an edit while reading, go ahead and send it to me.  Brandon ala brandon sanderson dot com with no spaces!  

However, I WILL be releasing proofread and edited versions of the book eventually.  For now, just accept my apology!  I tend to write straight through in the groove of the story, and intentionally ignore line-editing on the first draft.  

There ARE some villains in this book.  But, well, read on and let me know what you think when they show up.  I'd really appreciate suggestions and impressions as the book progresses.  
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joevans3

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Re: Warbreaker Sample Chapters
« Reply #151 on: September 22, 2006, 02:43:18 PM »
Cool.  I will try the email thing.  

By the way I just finished Mistborn.  [SPOILER WARNING: Don't read this if you haven't finished yet]

Wow.  I really liked it.  As I approached the final chapters, I was sure that you had sold out to the trilogy folks and that you were going to leave everything hanging.  Thank you so much for not doing so.  It always makes me feel ripped off when authors do that.

I loved how you left some big issues hanging so that thre will be plenty to take the series to the next level, but that you wrapped up what I cared about from the first book.  It reminds me of some great series like Dune that started out with a good book and then kept taking it up a notch with each sequel.

Speaking of Dune, in Warbreaker, you could consider doing the preface quote for each chapter from a variety of sources like Herbert did.  That would let you get the history and background in there (suggested by others in the forum) and also add some texture by using different voices and viewpoints.

Thanks for a great read in Mistborn!

-J
« Last Edit: September 22, 2006, 02:44:42 PM by joevans3 »

dreamking47

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Re: Warbreaker Sample Chapters
« Reply #152 on: September 24, 2006, 03:40:01 PM »
Quote
I think one thing that could help the story is an evil character.


The idea of having a more defined villain is an interesting comment.  On one hand I've enjoyed the fact that there isn't an obvious opponent, adversary, singular Source Of All Conflict And Evil so far.  The absence of such makes the story more mysterious.  On the other hand, I mentioned in an earlier post how I felt the characters were all too passive, and I think this is part of it -- their actions have little urgency (for themselves or us) because they have no defined opposition acting on them, and for them to act on and react to.

It's like what Elantris would have been with Hrathen's POV taken out -- there would have been more mystery but less tension.  I think with this book, without that recurring insight into the enemy, the challenge is to keep the mystery but up the tension.  You can look at a lot of traditional mystery/thriller sources for examples of this; for me, the important things are that we care about the characters (which means I think we need to get to know them better, learn more about their interests and see them in a wider range of emotional situations) and we need to feel they're in real, imminent danger.

(It occurs to me that there are a lot of similarities between Warbreaker and Elantris, BTW: a young woman leaves her home in a political marriage to unite two countries; the country she goes to has form of government based on mass-exploitation; she has little/no access to her husband until late in the book; an organized religious group seems to be making a play for power; a member of that religion experiences some religious doubt and feels unexpected compassion for the female character.  There are plenty of differences, too, of course, but not knowing what you have planned, this may be something to keep in mind.)

I said in my earlier posts that the story had felt "young adult"-ish to me, and one of the reasons I said that was the absence of what joevans3 calls "evil."  I would instead term it the underdevelopment of things "dangerous," by which I mean not just things that are literally dangerous to the characters, but rather that full-fleshing out of ideas that says something interesting about humanity, that can sometimes make readers uncomfortable.  Basically there seem to be a lot of potentially "dangerous" ideas and story elements that are treated with kid gloves: the moral/psychological implications of the Breath idea; religious certainty/uncertainty; mercenaries, criminals and the underside of a city; the question of ends vs. means; political espionage and sabotage.  This may be a feature of the story as a first draft or it may be a conscious decision to stay away from these things to make the book exclude as few readers as possible.  I mention it mainly to make sure this is a conscious decision, because I think the author should always tell the story he wants to tell -- and obviously in this case we don't yet know how it will end.

I agree, I have wondered what Siri and Vivenna's father has been doing.  At times it's felt like there is too much going on -- so many characters, so many aspects to the magic system, that none of them are getting the attention I think they deserve.  I don't know how far along the story is, hopefully this will change by the end (and the fact that I want to know more is a good thing).

One question on this chapter: how much time has Siri spent teaching Susebron to read as of this chapter?  He seems to have, um, picked it up very quickly.  It's hard for me to conceptualize, but if he had both memorized the alphabet and his storybook, couldn't he have taught himself to read/write at least the words in it?  (Or is this, as you may answer, the reason he's learned so quickly?)

Regarding the previous chapter, Lightsong has definitely become my favorite character, after a slow start.  He himself confessed he was boring at the beginning, but he's gotten more interesting recently, as he's become more interested in what's going on around him.  Also his mystery is interesting.  Who was he in his previous life (we have hints: a woman, a boat; he died five years ago; he was "the best of men")?  Who was Llarimar?  Was Lightsong's death and Return by plan or accident?

It seems Lightsong is being set up to find something meaningful to offer his life for in sacrifice...but what?  Speculations: is it possible for a Returned to give life to a Lifeless?  Something relating to Siri, as she's the one who has rewoken his interest in life?  Something to do with Llarimar, since Lightsong has the most connection with him?  Something completely random; in some ways fitting given Lightsong's somewhat random approach to life?

MattD
« Last Edit: September 24, 2006, 03:53:31 PM by dreamking47 »
"It had blood in it.  That makes it a good metaphor." -- Tonk Fah, in EUOL's Warbreaker

dreamking47

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Re: Warbreaker Sample Chapters
« Reply #153 on: September 24, 2006, 03:41:04 PM »
(Note: this is a continuation of my previous message, I needed to split it in two because it was too long as one post.)

As long as I'm speculating, I'd guess that given the mysterious nature of the story, one of the more valuable things I might do is let the author know what hints I've picked up on regarding the mysteries and what my speculations are -- there must be times when you wonder, "what have my readers picked up on?"  I suppose it's possible there may be spoilers here...

- It seems that there is a past connection between Jewels and Clod.  They don't seem quite close enough for him to have been a husband or brother, though; was he the member of Denth's band killed by Vasher?

- Something is going to happen to Peprin, and soon...any time a borderline-inept character suddenly announces that he'll take care of something on his own, and asks "don't you trust me to do it?," something happens.  He'll be followed back, he'll be captured, he'll run into someone.  Vasher or one of the crime bosses would seem to be leading candidates.

- What is Vasher up to?  Honestly, I have no idea...insufficient information for me to speculate, unless I've missed hints.  Is he in this for himself or is he working for someone else (see the next item).

- Likewise I don't feel confident enough to speculate on the overall mystery of the political situation.  Are all the priests hiding things from all the Returned Gods; are some Returned and their priests in control; how many factions are there (is Blushweaver part of the faction in control or parallel to it?), and is it ultimately a question of factions or is there one person making all the decisions (someone like Tridees, the head priest, being an obvious [probably too obvious] candidate)?  Is all this recent -- is Susebron the first Hallendren ruler to secretly be a cripled figurehead -- or has the system been in place for longer than that?

- Unlike joevans3 I'm not sure things will end happily for Siri and Susebron...it's certainly a possibility, but Susebron, as the leader (or at least figurehead) of a nation based on exploitation and who owes his very life to that exploitation, may also be set up for sacrifice.  And is he the "noble ignorant" he seems, or is that hint of subterfuge we saw in his last conversation with Siri a sign that he has his own agenda?  One note, if his tongue is cut, he not only cannot use his Breath, he cannot give it up, can he?  Could another Returned use Breath to heal him?  I'm not sure what can be done with Breath in terms miracles/healing.

Anyway, I hope this is useful -- and if I am giving away anything important, let me know if you'd like me to edit this.

MattD
« Last Edit: September 24, 2006, 06:10:46 PM by dreamking47 »
"It had blood in it.  That makes it a good metaphor." -- Tonk Fah, in EUOL's Warbreaker

EUOL

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Re: Warbreaker Sample Chapters
« Reply #154 on: September 27, 2006, 03:47:03 PM »
New chapter:

http://www.brandonsanderson.com/drafts/warbreaker/WarbreakerCh-026-1.0.doc

MattD

Those are some of the most helpful comments that I've gotten on the book so far, so thank you very, very much.  I'll hold off replying to them right now, for sake of spoilers.  However, I'd like to note that I've also noticed the similarities between Elantris and Warbreaker, and they do worry me a bit.  I hesitated writing this novel for that reason.

A couple of things made me do it anyway.  First, the entire Mistborn trilogy will be between them.  Second, I intentionally wanted to try another stab at some of the concepts in Elantris, since I've grown as an author since I wrote that book.  I find that in my writing, I like to react against myself.  I write something, then say "Hum.  How could I have approached that differently?" Kind of like trying to undermine my own clichés.

So, with Warbreaker, I wanted to tell an evil overlord story where the evil overlord WASN'T evil.  In Elantris, I had a city of the gods without any gods, which always made me a bit sad.  So, I wanted to do a story that was actually about people who were held up as gods.  Also, in Elantris, I had Sarene go off to get married, then find out her husband was dead.  In this, therefore, I wanted to react against that and tell a story about someone who DID end up going through with the political marriage.

Third, I decided I wanted to do something lighter in tone--more like Elantris--after finishing the entire Mistborn series, which grows quite dark.  I wanted something with color and light, rather than mists, ash, and destruction.

Make any sense?  What do others think about these comments?
« Last Edit: September 27, 2006, 07:12:01 PM by EUOL »
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joevans3

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Re: Warbreaker Sample Chapters
« Reply #155 on: September 27, 2006, 05:01:43 PM »
Quote


It seems Lightsong is being set up to find something meaningful to offer his life for in sacrifice...but what?  Speculations: is it possible for a Returned to give life to a Lifeless?  Something relating to Siri, as she's the one who has rewoken his interest in life?  Something to do with Llarimar, since Lightsong has the most connection with him?  Something completely random; in some ways fitting given Lightsong's somewhat random approach to life?



I assumed that Lightsong is destined to sacrifice himself to give Susibron back his tongue.  Too obvious?

I have to admit that the idea that the old king might get it in the end makes the suspense a little more interesting for me...although, since I don't really care as much about him as I do about his daughters, it wouldn't be much of a loss.  I suspect that even if he dies, he will also lose a daughter, and only one sister will be left standing with a bittersweet victory.  Or would that be too dark?

I hadn't thought about the Elantris similarities that in-depth, but there are obvious comparisons to be made.  I may have to go back and reread Elantris now.  I think the similarities, as BA suggests, let the author explore different aspects of the same principles.

-j

EUOL

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Re: Warbreaker Sample Chapters
« Reply #156 on: September 27, 2006, 07:11:47 PM »
--Note:  I had the wrong chapter linked above!  This week's is Chapter 26!--

I still worry about the similarities.  The thing is, I wrote ELANTRIS seven years ago, so these themes--the person becoming a god in particular--are things I haven't dealt with in a long, long time in my view.  However, to other people, it's going to seem a lot closer.  I may have to tweak some things.  
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dreamking47

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Re: Warbreaker Sample Chapters
« Reply #157 on: September 27, 2006, 07:20:19 PM »
I liked the new chapter (26) a lot -- the best and most thoughtful dialog in the book so far, I thought.  The salt idea is clever, although I assume the Lifeless troops don't need to eat...I guess it's mainly to make things difficult for their commanders.  That, or Denth has other plans that will impact the Lifeless.

The comment in my previous post about the similarities to Elantris wasn't meant as a criticism, as something "wrong" per se, but just as an observation, to make sure you were aware of them.  Certainly there are plenty of differences -- the characters, setting and many themes all seem quite different so far.  It has definitely felt like its own story, not at all like "Elantris 2.0."  It just would have been bad if you had finished Warbreaker, typed "The End," saved the file, shut down your computer, went to bed...and then woke up at 3am in a cold sweat thinking, "cripes, I ended that the same way I ended Elantris, without realizing it!" ;)

The Lightsong-heals-Susebron idea was one of the speculations I hinted at, joevans3, so you're not alone there...Susebron then free to perform a miracle on a group of people (giving Breath to the Drabs, restoring equality; life to the Lifeless, ending the war?).  The knock on this for me is that for all the pages in the book Lightsong has gotten, it feels like he deserves an end that has greater direct impact and that would feel more satisfying to him personally -- not just being the first step in the plan.  On the other hand, it might represent an important maturation for Lightsong, to take an action not because it alone will save the world in one quick stroke, but because his action would help do so.

Re: the sisters, I can't imagine Vivenna going back to her homeland, she just wouldn't fit there anymore.  If one of the sisters dies, as you suggest, she'd be my bet, although it would also make sense for her to rule in Hallendren since she is the eldest sister and that's what she was trained for.

MattD
« Last Edit: September 28, 2006, 12:00:24 AM by dreamking47 »
"It had blood in it.  That makes it a good metaphor." -- Tonk Fah, in EUOL's Warbreaker

dreamking47

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Re: Warbreaker Sample Chapters
« Reply #158 on: September 27, 2006, 08:10:43 PM »
Quote
I still worry about the similarities.  The thing is, I wrote ELANTRIS seven years ago, so these themes--the person becoming a god in particular--are things I haven't dealt with in a long, long time in my view.  However, to other people, it's going to seem a lot closer.


I wouldn't worry too much about the Elantris similarities.  In the first place, I am, I think, the only one who's said anything.  I just read Elantris a few months ago, when it came out in paperback, so I've probably read it more recently than most and am thus more sensitive to the similarities.  And I don't yet know how Warbreaker ends, which is a critical factor (see below) -- don't take anything I write too seriously until I've read the end.  Also I have not yet read Mistborn (although I will: it sounds like a good candidate to be my favorite of your books) so Elantris and Warbreaker are my only experiences with your work.  All that you say about Warbreaker not being published for years, and having all of Mistborn in-between (plus the Alcatraz project you're doing), are good points in terms of the mental separation you can expect your readers to have.

Second, while I had noticed a few similarities, I had never sat down and thought about them until that exact point in my previous post where I was mentioning Elantris.  They had not been eating away ay me, detracting from my enjoyment of Warbreaker, in other words.

Third, there's nothing wrong with revisiting ideas and plot elements.  Good authors do it often, because the ideas they're grappling with are too big for a single take.  Orson Scott Card has written several variants of the "young saviour" story, for example, each with a Going Away from Home moment, a Mysterious Pragmatic Teacher, a Lesson in Empathy, etc.  Gene Wolfe has done the same, and his stories always have the Talking Animal Companion, the Journey through the Underdark, the Experience of War, and so forth.  Repetitions, parallels, congruences between stories are not necessarily bad things -- they're often quite positive, because they indicate that the stories are hitting on cultural touchpoints, the collective subconscious, and universal mythologies.

Now I confess, I personally will be a little disappointed in the creative potential lost if Warbreaker ends the same way Elantris did -- if parallel characters perform parallel functions in a parallel resolution.  Or, to be explicit, if Lightsong gives his life so that Susebron and Siri can rule a more equable kingdom happily ever after, while Vivenna marries Denth.  If they do end in similar ways, it's still potentially okay, but (to make this reader happy, at least) you'll need to work to justify it: how is it, and what does it mean, that characters who truly are different in a setting that truly is different end up so similarly?  And if that isn't the case, if the stories end differently, then I think the question of similarities becomes moot.

MattD
« Last Edit: September 28, 2006, 12:14:23 AM by dreamking47 »
"It had blood in it.  That makes it a good metaphor." -- Tonk Fah, in EUOL's Warbreaker

amyface

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Re: Warbreaker Sample Chapters
« Reply #159 on: October 02, 2006, 11:30:22 PM »
I can't tell you how much I'm enjoying Warbreaker! Let's just say I'm very pleased.

Since you are taking suggestions, I noticed that while she's on her way to t'telir she was able to "grow" her hair short but later when she was growing her hair long to fit the style she said she had to cut it to make it shorter. I personally liked the being able to shorten her hair at will. - it's a little thing, but I really liked the hair changing ability thing... it's fun.

I also just joined the Mistborn RPG, and loned out my recently signed:) copy of Elantris to my librarian coworker for her to read... she's very excited.
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EUOL

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Re: Warbreaker Sample Chapters
« Reply #160 on: October 03, 2006, 05:02:02 PM »
Amyface,

That's good to know.  I thought the ability to shorten hair was a bit too odd, so I stopped using it.  However, I'm still undecided.  I eventually settled on them being able to make their hair grow with concentration (though it makes them hungry).  Then, if they want it short, they can cut it without really worrying about messing up their style, since they can just grow it back with a little effort.

Does that work, or would you prefer it the way it was?

I'm very thankful to you for loaning out Elantris.  The more people who read my books, the better!  I particularly like it when Librarians read the books, because maybe then they'll recommend them!

MattD,

Again, some excellent comments.  I really appreciate them, and you've given me some good things to think about.  I had some more comments here, but I deleted them for the sake of not spoiling the plot.  Once the book is all done, however, we'll start a spoiler thread to discuss what people think I should do with it.  Right now, I fear that some plot points are too obvious--while others are too obscure!  But, we won't know for certain until people read them and react.  
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amyface

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Re: Warbreaker Sample Chapters
« Reply #161 on: October 03, 2006, 09:07:29 PM »
I see how it is a very odd thing to be able to "ungrow" one's hair. Either way it won't ruin the story for me, it is just a little thing. I did like how it fit in with her trip to and first few days in t'telir. It would go along with the theme of her being stripped of everything that was once hers. Plus, I think it really emphasized her fear there. I think this could be another show of emotion like the curling and color changing...

But, like I said it's not enough of a big deal to give too much thought to... just a detail that I happened to especially pay attention to, (probably because my hair is a new color every month).
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Miriel

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Re: Warbreaker Sample Chapters
« Reply #162 on: October 03, 2006, 09:40:45 PM »
I've been guilty of reading and not commenting for a while, so some of these comments are from less recent chapters.

Just a small thing: can lichen grow on marble?  This stoped me in the chapter where Vasher sneaks into the palace: he can sense the lichen growing on the marble wall.  I always thought lichen could only grow on more gritty rocks like sandstone and granite.  I tried to research it, but couldn't find anything.

And, more relevantly, I have to agree with dreamking47 about the pacing.  At the begining, there are plot hooks sinking in every chapter, pulling the plot (and the reader) along, but lately, there's been little suspense.  Siri's husband isn't a monster.  The war hasn't started yet.  Vivena doesn't look anywhere near to being caught (or, for that matter, Siri).  Nothing really horrible is happening in T'telir or in Idris.  I'm not chewing my lip at the end of every chapter, hoping everyone's all right like I did in the begining.  I'm still very much enjoying the novel (the conversations between Siri and Susebron, and the latest with Vivena and Jewels was great), but I'm just not in suspense between chapter anymore.  There's no visible, immediate threat to make me worry.  

There are lots of mysteries, but I think they're made less mysterious by the fact we know so little about them.  The mysteries in Elantris and Mistborn are great because the clues come out little by little: the reader is able to tease the information they've been given, trying to figure out the puzzle.  Here, I feel more like there aren't enough clues to begin playing with and sorting through -- and no immediete need to solve the puzzle: The priests might start hurting Siri in a few months, but there haven't been any threats or indications of what might happen.  They might start a war in a couple months, but the Idrians in town aren't being chased out/burned/executed yet.  There's no immedieate threat to anyone.

Also, and perhaps I'm the only one, when Denth and Tonk Fah were first introduced, they sounded like twins.  I didn't think it was going to be important to be able to tell them apart, but now it's apparent that they're very different people, and not just each other's springboards for clever sarcasm.  I can't remember which one is which, because they were so similar for so many chapters, and now it's frustrating me.

That all said, I'm enjoying the novel very much.  I think its strongest point is its excellent dialogue between characters.  Thanks for letting everyone read this as you write it.

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Re: Warbreaker Sample Chapters
« Reply #163 on: October 04, 2006, 02:59:48 PM »
In song (repeat getting louder and louder and louder and it will come).

Here we sit like birds in the wilderness, birds in the wilderness, birds in the wilderness.  Here we sit like birds in the wilderness, waiting for warbreaker to come.  WAITING FOR WARBRACKER TO COME, waiting for warbreaker to come.  Here we sit like birds in the wilderness waiting for warbreaker to come.
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Re: Warbreaker Sample Chapters
« Reply #164 on: October 04, 2006, 03:28:56 PM »
http://www.brandonsanderson.com/drafts/warbreaker/WarbreakerCh-027-1.0.doc

Chapter 27.  This one is a little bit longer than usual.  Enjoy.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2006, 03:29:51 PM by EUOL »
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