Eulogy 19

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

clichéd garbage is the best kind of garbage.

[stacer]

The further back you go--like to the 50s, when Heinlein was publishing his "juveniles," which is what they're called by most people I know, gets fuzzy, because YA wasn't really a genre/market/what have you. But in general, the term YA means "Teens." It's stuff that would appeal to teens, generally has teen protagonists (not always), and is geared for a market older than picture books and chapter books and middle readers, but generally more straightforward plot and characterization than adult stuff.

[The Jade Knight]

I'm fairly familiar with the difference between YA and Juvi, but then I worked in a public library for quite some time.

We never called juvenile literature (/books) "juveniles", though.  We'd call it Juvi Lit or Juvi books or just Juvi, but never "juveniles".

Interesting to get a perspective from the other side of the fence, though.


And, as a rule, all the young person "classics" (Dark is Rising, Black Cauldron [whatever that series was called], the Hobbit, Harry Potter, etc.) were Juvi, not YA.  I remember that much.  A lot of Anime went into YA, though.  It was a small niche of a section, designed generally to specific teen-interest stuff.  As Stacer said, often with teen protagonists, and frequently dealing with teen issues.  The nonfiction was similar in nature, generally only dealing with the types of issues kids would see alot of in high school (dumbed-down books on drugs, sex, self-help books on how to survive HS, etc.)

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

...

it sounds like you guys are disagreeing

Stacer says YA has all that stuff. you say Juvi does. I thought Juvi was younger from what she said (don't expect me to remember it in another conversation though). So when you said the Hobbit was Juvi, I was a bit taken aback. and it's definitely a higher reading level than Harry Potter

[The Jade Knight]

I'm speaking from the standpoint of a Public Library, which may be different from the standpoint of a Children's Lit editor.

For us, YA = teen (read:  High School), and is heavily influenced by interest.  We put books there that the teens are going to want, specifically.

Besides, I read The Hobbit in like 4th or 5th grade (about the time I read Dark is Rising), and my brother read it in 2nd.  Definitely not YA for us.  =þ

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

so... there's no reason to get mad at someone for misusing the terms when there's even professional disagreement about the application of the terms. Thus, I will continue in my nonchalance about the distinction and find insistence on "correct" usage to be pedantic since there isn't a single correct use.

[The Jade Knight]

I think it's going a little far to say I was mad over your misuse.  I wasn't even irked.  "Mildly annoyed" might be a more appropriate term.

The reason why is that "fey and "fay" have very different etymologies, and I, personally, think that their distinction in meaning is very enriching.  "Fey" comes from "fæge" (hostile - Anglo-Saxon origin), perhaps relating to the word "foe".  "Fay" comes from "faie" (fairy - Norman or French origin).

Strange how there's such a division between your views on spelling, and your views on punctuation, though.

[Jelly_Belly]

OK, did we just totally jump from the Mainstream Fantasy thread and bleed into this one? What does Fey vs. Fay have to do with YA fiction vs Juvenile fiction. Get your threads straight man!

[The Jade Knight]

Quite sorry.  I was responding to Saint E.

[Jelly_Belly]

No need--just messing with ya   .

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

I think it's going a little far to say I was mad over your misuse.  I wasn't even irked.  "Mildly annoyed" might be a more appropriate term.

The reason why is that "fey and "fay" have very different etymologies, and I, personally, think that their distinction in meaning is very enriching.  "Fey" comes from "fæge" (hostile - Anglo-Saxon origin), perhaps relating to the word "foe".  "Fay" comes from "faie" (fairy - Norman or French origin).

Strange how there's such a division between your views on spelling, and your views on punctuation, though.

1) I didn't say you were mad. I was addressing stacer's quote, which was very hostile toward EUOL.
2) I'm not sure where you're getting my views on punctuation or it's difference from spelling -- if this were a published work, yes, it'd be important. As it is a casual forum that I don't need to proofread, and I don't need ANYONE ELSE to proofread for me, things can be much more casual, especially when they're such esoteric concerns.
3) If you really want me to address fey/fay, I will: the difference was immaterial to the discussion. The ONLY reason to bring it up seemed to be "man, you must be ignorant not to know the difference there" or else "see! look how smart I am!" since it didn't have anything to do with any point anyone was making.

Yes, please do keep your threads straight. If you did, you would realize that I wasn't making a point about you until you forced me to.

[The Jade Knight]

1.  My apologies.  I thought you were addressing me.  I guess I should have paid more attention.
2.  That actually had nothing to do with the punctuation or spelling of your post.  It was about your stand on the usage of "fey" and "fay" v. British/American punctuation.
3.  I'm a philologist.  I bring the difference up in an attempt to help clarify, as I have a hunch you're not the only one who doesn't know the difference between "fey" and "fay", and I think it's a great distinction for peolpe to know about.  Quite contrary to your claim that I thought you "must be ignorant to not know the difference", it was (is) my suspicion that few do, and THAT was the reason I brought it up.  To generally edify.  Consider it a bit of "useless trivia" if you wish, but as a philologist, I happen to care.


Yes, I see that.  Like I said, mae culpa.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

2.  That actually had nothing to do with the punctuation or spelling of your post.  It was about your stand on the usage of "fey" and "fay" v. British/American punctuation.

again, were this a published work, the spelling would have needed correcting. As it is a casual forum, the distinction seemed unncessary. I'm very precise about the punctuation in my work because it's a matter of professionalism: the difference between making my company look like a bunch of monkeys demanding money for something they slapped together and a clear, precise system of documentation. If someone were to put the period in the wrong place on the forum, that's not a big deal. In my work where people are paying for the material, then it becomes important. There is no inconsistency. If for some reason, the word "fey" or "fay" appeared in the help files, training manuals, or other documentation, rest assured I would make sure it was correct (though I would worry about it much less then, say "effect" and "affect" since I believe few people using routing software know what either "fey" or "fay" mean).

[The Jade Knight]

My point is that, after my comment, you intimated that British punctuation would disgruntle you, not just that "incorrect" punctuation would.  And then you remained, to use your word, "nonchalant" about the switching of "fey" and "fay".

I am glad to hear you would appreciate the difference in a published work, however.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

using British punctuation in would disgruntle me in a work published in America yes, but not on a forum. The reason being that it seems more than a little capricious and based on whim to break with the system for little reason other than you think it "looks better." Frankly, it would bother me because a) it jibes Jam and En, and b) British punctuation IS incorrect when you write and publish in America.