Author Topic: Batman Begins *spoilers*  (Read 2181 times)

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Batman Begins *spoilers*
« on: June 15, 2005, 07:43:48 PM »
So really good flick.

But am I the only one who noticed that there were a lot of British actors (and some Irish) in that movie? Christian Bale does a great job, but I found his American accent to be kind of forced.

Also, I like how they made out Gotham to be more of its own mythical city and not just a New York clone, though it still shares a lot with NY, or London, or Paris.

And Scarecrow makes me want to become a psychologist.

The movie was a lot longer than I expected. I kind of thought it would end after Scarecrow was defeated. Wasn't really expecting Ra's Al Ghul to show up again, though it made sense.
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Re: Batman Begins *spoilers*
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2005, 12:16:52 PM »
Read the review: http://www.timewastersguide.com/view.php?id=1093

Just thought I'd add the link here as well.
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Re: Batman Begins *spoilers*
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2005, 10:56:07 PM »
Saw it, liked it, won't gafaw!

I saw The Machinist a few days ago, wherein Christian Bale lost an exorbetant amount of weight to play the role. It was a fairly good movie as well, but a bit more edgier.

I liked Bruce Wayne better than Batman. But that may have been in due part to Bale's attempt to change his voice while in costume so people wouldn't recognize him as easily. Even though only a few people who may have known who he was found out anyways.

Batmobile was awesome. Definately need to start manufacturing those things.

Scarecrow was a cool character, but was rather easily and sillily defeated. Even though it was pointed out that he may still be on the loose. Along with other crazies.

Gordon was nicely established.

Definately saw that Ra's Al Ghul wasn't the crazed asain guy that Ra was making himself out to be. Liked how he came back turnaround and the whole story just flowed together rather well.

The Asylum seemed rather poorly constructed on the outside, as I couldn't tell where the Asylum started and ended and where the slums began.
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Re: Batman Begins *spoilers*
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2005, 11:40:12 PM »
Well the scarecrow always was kind of a wussy villain so I wasn't expecting some great fight out of him, though I thought he was very well done.

I agree with Gemm that a lot of the characters were portrayed really well, Gorden, Ra's Al-Ghul and Alfred.

I'm debating if it's better then the spidermans which it may be just because I like the Batman Character so much more the Spidy.
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Re: Batman Begins *spoilers*
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2005, 03:10:17 AM »
Yeah, I really liked how they handled Scarecrow.  I was thinking "Ah, this villain isn't going to have any kind of cool fighting for Batman" and then, I was rewarded by a conflict far more interesting and active.

A piece of me still wishes they'd been able to keep continuity with the Tim Burton Batman, but that's a lot to ask, I realize.
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Re: Batman Begins *spoilers*
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2005, 03:18:51 AM »
The only complaint that I can think of right now is the combat. A lot of the time, when he was fighting, they would change angles so many times that all you could see was a blur. You could never follow what was going on, and I hate that. It is that way with a lot of movies now, and it makes me wonder why they would even bother having fight scenes if you can't see them.
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Re: Batman Begins *spoilers*
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2005, 06:18:42 AM »
Archon, I agree with you on the blur thing. That shaky camerawork gimmick nauseates me and makes me unable to understand what's going on.

I went and saw it tonight at the Imax. Wow, that was BIG! I've never seen an Imax movie before. Now I really want to go see something made for an Imax, because Batman is just a really big movie on it--not quite the same.

Anyway, I really, really liked the depth of characterization with Bruce Wayne in this one. I really resonated more with him in this movie than in any other movie. This movie had more depth overall than any of the other Batman movies, and I really loved how the storyline pulled together.

I don't remember whether it was here or somewhere else I saw someone say they didn't like the girlfriend/DA girl, what's her name from Dawson's Creek. I think she was definitely weaker of a character than the others, but the story really was about Bruce's inner conflict and his connection with Alfred (Michael Cain was a great choice!), his history in becoming Batman, and the couple of villains, so she didn't seem so much tacked on as the most minor of minor plots. She was okay, I just didn't feel too much chemistry between her and Bale, though Bale as Batman radiated chemistry in general.

Just preliminary thoughts as I come home from the movie. I must say (or did I say it already? It's 2am, sorry to repeat if I do)--I liked this one far more than the others.
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Re: Batman Begins *spoilers*
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2005, 01:53:00 PM »
Katie Holmes.
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Re: Batman Begins *spoilers*
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2005, 07:38:15 PM »
Again, I liked the movie.  But, Kurtz (pvp) just pointed out some plotting issues that seem pretty bothersome.

The water-vaporization thing always bothered me as a plot element, but I hadn't realized one important--glaring, even--problem with it.  This thing vaporizes water, passing through brick and steel to do so.  

But, uh, it doesn't vaporize the water inside of people?

There are much easier ways to gas a population than to try this elaborate, pointless scheme involving the water supply.

What do you guys think?
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Re: Batman Begins *spoilers*
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2005, 07:43:30 PM »
Actually, that's a huge plot hole, you're right. I didn't like the device, either. What I did like was the characterization, which I didn't feel was as strong in the previous Batmans.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2005, 07:43:53 PM by norroway »
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Re: Batman Begins *spoilers*
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2005, 07:48:57 PM »
I just plane ignored that part, I thought the same thing and just thought "Its a superhero movie" science allwayse dosen't work the corret way in them, we had the same discussion about Spiderman 2.  Nothing Kurtz pointed out bothered me, though I can see how it would annoy others.  I, for one, like the frantic, blurry fight scenes it feels very Batmanish in my opinoin, that's how he should fight in my mind not head on.

I don't see why Kurtz dosen't get the al-Ghul plot, the guy destroys cities/civilzations that have become to perverted in his mind.  He dosen't need a connection to Gotham.

As for gasing everyone, well the easier way was done in the first batman movie with the Joker not a very good idea to use the same method/plotting over again.
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Re: Batman Begins *spoilers*
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2005, 08:39:18 PM »
Quote
Bruce trains with the league of Shadows and totally subscribes to their philosophies. He's eager to swear alliegence to them and be branded with their mark. Then suddenly, when faced with executing a criminal (which was the entire motivation of his ending up in Tibet or wherever), he's suddenly above such acts.


The impression I got was that he trained with them in order to know how to fight crime, but didn't realise how crazed they were. We never got shown him being sat down and having the policy explained to.

Quote
So much so that he's willing to destroy the entire temple and kill everyone he had just pledged life-long alliegence to.


If someone said that they were gonna destroy my hometown, and I thought they could do it, i'd probably try to stop them myself. He was protecting his city.

Quote
I don't totally get why the league of Shadows would even care about Gotham anyway. In the comics, Ra's wants to purge the world in an ecological disaster and then rule over the survivors. In this movie he just kinda wants to focus on Gotham for no good reason. Why focus on that once city? Did I miss his ties to Gotham?


A common failing of fans watching a new incarnation of their franchise: They don't pay attention to the changes and then act surprised when things don't mesh as they expect. The league of shadows is very similar to the euthanatos from Mage - they cull that which harms society, be it criminals, or be it a city that is a magnet for evil. Gotham is full of crime, so, destroy gotham and you take out a lot of that crime.

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Katie Holmes is a total beating in this film. She is not convincing as an assistant D.A, and her only role in the film is to lecture Bruce and provide someone for him to rescue.


She was good enough. And she had a fair number of scenes (more than gordon). She had no chemistry with bruce at all, but she handled the rest pretty well.

Quote
The movie also fell into the trap of a couple of Super-hero movie cliches that really detract from the film. The first being that everyone is connected and had met each other previously. Gordon was the street cop that comforted young Bruce. Ducard can't just be some guy in Tibet...he had ties to Gotham(right?). The random kid that sees Batman on the side of his building is the kid that Rachel runs into in the Narrows. Why? is that really important to tie everyone together like that?


Ducard is linked to gotham? I didn't notice. And the rest is kind of wierd, but also helps to give both a) a sense of continuity and history (by having recurring characters) and b) to generate some sympathy (by having a kid that already appeared, the viewers are more likely to care about him getting toxined).

Quote
And once again..the Hero reveals his identity to the girl for NO GOOD REASON.


She was his childhood friend. Very few people can keep secrets from EVERYONE.

Quote
The Bat-action was weird. Doing Batattacks in the same vein as the alien movies is cool. You only see pieces of him as he's taking people out. But the fight scenes are awful. It's a total mess. You have no idea what's going on or who's winning until it's over and the camera stops moving.


Totally true. I hated the fight scenes, just horribly confusing and irritating. When will film makers learn that what I want to see is a scene shot from the side on, whole bodies visible, so that I can see what everyone is doing. That's far more interesting than closeups of bruces left shoulder or whatever.

Quote
The microwave scrambler can reach through concrete and metal pipes to instantly vaporize water. Well humans are mostly water. Why weren't people exploding near that machine?


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Re: Batman Begins *spoilers*
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2005, 01:09:17 AM »
Another glaring plot hole is the "OMG the water supply is going to explode! The pressure is too high" thing. Every city water system has several pressure valves which allows the release of excess water during storms. It depressureizes the system. So why didn't they just open the storm valves, HUH? Even if the water was already treated and ready for consumption, there's always some pressure-release valves installed as a safety measure.

And the water hub of the city just happens to be under Wayne Tower? Riiiight.

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Re: Batman Begins *spoilers*
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2005, 06:28:09 AM »
They did say that wayne senior built it that way. So he could use the railway system as the water system as well I think.
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Re: Batman Begins *spoilers*
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2005, 10:18:31 PM »
I want to know where was the classic Batman music? The old Dun-dun Dun Duuuuun, DUN! etceteralis.
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