Author Topic: 12 Days of Christmas Movies  (Read 4711 times)

The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers

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12 Days of Christmas Movies
« on: December 06, 2005, 03:52:33 PM »
reference: http://www.timewastersguide.com/view.php?id=1208

Sure, you *could* go out and buy presents and get them wrapped *before* Christmas Eve. But then you wouldn't be wasting time here, would you? Go see a movie instead.

Fellfrosch

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Re: 12 Days of Christmas Movies
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2005, 04:00:38 PM »
Aside from a gross abuse of the clock system (not a single one of these movies is a 6-clocker, though I'd accept 5.5 for Die Hard), this is a pretty good list.
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House of Mustard

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Re: 12 Days of Christmas Movies
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2005, 04:59:29 PM »
Speaking of the clock system, I'd like to make a complaint against movie reviews generally: there are 138 reviews in the database, and 89 of them have 4.5 clocks or more.  According the the submission guidelines, 4.5 clocks is considered "great".  That seems very out of line with the bell curve.

Now, the problem could very well be this: our reviewers, since they're not being paid to watch every movie out there, only review the ones they like and, therefore, the movies that "ought" to be good.  The other possibility is that our critics just aren't critical enough.  I would love to see some more two, three, and four clock reviews.

(Disclaimer: The Gibbs brothers seems to be doing a much better job about this than past reviewers -- this Christmas list excepted. :))
« Last Edit: December 06, 2005, 04:59:51 PM by House_of_Mustard »
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Skar

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Re: 12 Days of Christmas Movies
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2005, 05:55:18 PM »
Yeah, the reviewers, whether it's me or the Gibbs brothers are not watching every movie out there.  We're watching the ones we have interest in.  That's going to color the scores.  Sorry if it bugs you.  If you'd like to fork out the cash and the time it would take to be comprehensive we'll gladly take it.  Or, if you'd like to write some reviews of 2 or 3 clock movies I'd gladly accept your submissions.  There are always DVD reviews too.

As for the Christmas article.  I assumed the scores were meant to be taken in context rather than as standalone scores.
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Patrick_Gibbs

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Re: 12 Days of Christmas Movies
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2005, 06:07:35 PM »
First of all, this is a list of classics that spread over a number of years. That alone explains the number of six clockers. Apart from that, let me explain the scores on this article.

"Die Hard" was not only a good as it could have been for what it was trying to be, but it revolutionized the action genre. It broke the mold. Hence the six clocks.

On the other hand, "Catch Me if You Can" and "Little Women" are much better movies. They may not have revolutionized any genres, but they were perfect films. There is no way they could have been better.

It is very hard to rate movies using the six clock sytem, because it makes no sense whatsover. It forces the reviewer away from rating a movie based on it's quality.

Where did people get the idea that it's a critic's job to hate movies? That's ridiculous. And when you see our year end list, you see some movies that we really hated - or wait for our upcoming review of "Aeon Flux."

From now on, we will be submitting our reviews with star ratings, on a one to four star system, poor to excellent. We would ask that therse ratings be posted, but that the editor should feel free to try and assign clocks ratings based on reading the review. We are never going to understand this  system, and we give up on trying.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2005, 06:12:09 PM by Patrick_Gibbs »
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Fellfrosch

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Re: 12 Days of Christmas Movies
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2005, 06:10:48 PM »
All of our reviews in all categories skew very high--movies are no higher than any other department. This is largely because, as Mustard postulated, we tend to review things we like.
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Paul_Gibbs

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Re: 12 Days of Christmas Movies
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2005, 06:22:39 PM »
It's important to remember that it's all relative. It's absurd to call it an abuse of the clock system that we simply liked some films better than another person did. Everyone of the films we rated 6 clocks avergae 4 stars (highest rating) among national film critics (with the possible exception of "Die Hard", which achieves that distinction because of it's influence over time).

We judge movies based on main criteria: Quality (or our personal assesment of such).

I agree that we will no longer be using the closk system, and ask that they be removed from the Christmas article. I'll stick to what I know and understand, which is the 1 to 4 star rating employed by most national films critics. For example, our 4.5 clock review of "The Legend of Zorro" simply would have worked much better as the 2.5 stars (fair) rating we would have given it using the conventional system. Six clocks is so broad that it's confusing and hard to figure out. It's like asking a teacher to add G though H as grades and try to figure out that system.

We're not trying to be overly defensive about this. People are free to disagree with, or even hate our opinions on these films. What frustrates us is that we feel we are being asked to violate our own integrity by submitting ratings which do not accurately reflect our opinion of a film. Hence, we're done with the clock system.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2005, 06:27:06 PM by Paul_Gibbs »
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House of Mustard

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Re: 12 Days of Christmas Movies
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2005, 06:36:19 PM »
I agree that the clock system is screwy -- I can't really understand the practical difference between 5.5 clocks and 6, since both claim to be "perfect" scores.

From reading other critics' articles (particularly Ebert, though others' as well), it seems like any kind of concrete rating system is flawed.  My suggestion: rather than switching to a star system (which isn't all that different from the clocks) is just abolish ratings altogether -- review the movie and let the article stand for itself.

Incidentally, I by no means meant to start an argument.  I very much enjoy reading the movie reviews -- especially the Gibbs stuff.  

(I think the only real reason I said I wanted to see lower-rated reviews is because it's always more entertaining to read about how crummy a movie is than how great it is.  Maybe that's just me. :))

Again -- no offense intended.
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Fellfrosch

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Re: 12 Days of Christmas Movies
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2005, 06:41:54 PM »
I'm down with 4 stars, or no stars, or whatever. I'm sending an email now.
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Paul_Gibbs

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Re: 12 Days of Christmas Movies
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2005, 06:42:15 PM »
I think you make an excellent point, Mustard. The star system isn't inherently better, it's just standard, and it's what I've been using all my life (I've assigned star ratings to movies since I was a kid).

There has been a lot of criticsim since the early 80s that star systems or the Siskel and Ebert "Thumbs Up" was dumbing down film criticism by trying to make films apply to an arbitrary standard, and there's a lot of vailidity to that. On the other hand, the reason these systems exist is that most people read a review for a simple reason: To decide whether they want to see a film. Many scan the review or check the star/clock rating.

I'd be fine with no ratings, but I understand the reason for them. But I can't begin to wrap my head around the six clock (it's the numbers, not the clocks) system.
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Fellfrosch

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Re: 12 Days of Christmas Movies
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2005, 07:02:51 PM »
I've talked to the Brothers Gibb, and we have settled on the following: all movies will now be given a five-dimensional coordinate based on its movement through the interlocking planes of acting, directing, length, explosions, and cheesecake. Each plane has its own "terrain," so to speak, but we project that the typical bad movie will be graded as a 4, a good movie will be Green, and an excellent movie will be Rabbit.
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Patrick_Gibbs

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Re: 12 Days of Christmas Movies
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2005, 07:14:22 PM »
Quote
I've talked to the Brothers Gibb, and we have settled on the following: all movies will now be given a five-dimensional coordinate based on its movement through the interlocking planes of acting, directing, length, explosions, and cheesecake. Each plane has its own "terrain," so to speak, but we project that the typical bad movie will be graded as a 4, a good movie will be Green, and an excellent movie will be Rabbit.


And one movie per year shall be designated as a "Wellington", based on how well it conforms to Socratic philosphy. Of course, in order to accomplish this, it will be necessary to review films backwards (or, in the case of "Memento", forwards).
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Fellfrosch

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Re: 12 Days of Christmas Movies
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2005, 07:18:31 PM »
I know it's complx, but you readers will get used to it eventually. For example, Citizen Kane would be rated "Aluminum." See how easy?
"Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you walk into an open sewer and die." --Mel Brooks

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Eagle Prince

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Re: 12 Days of Christmas Movies
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2005, 07:20:35 PM »
Nice article.  I own all of these movies except for Young Sherlock Holmes.  Heh, Santa Claus Conquors the Martians, never thought I'd see a review of that.  Good alternate choice of christmas movies though.
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Mister M

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Re: 12 Days of Christmas Movies
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2005, 07:57:53 PM »
Okay, I read this and generally agree with it, but I have to ask one thing:

The Polar Express as "the greatest Christmas movie ever made"?

I really hope that particular paragraph was steeped in sarcasm that I'm not just picking up on. After seeing that film two weeks ago I'm convinced that its relationship to quality entertainment is akin to the relationship between matter and antimater. (Though Santa Claus Conquers the Martians beats even it, gaining the status of "entertainment black hole" :))
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