Author Topic: King Kong  (Read 6625 times)

Fellfrosch

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Re: King Kong
« Reply #30 on: November 10, 2005, 10:05:13 PM »
I have to admit that I thought something very similar when I watched the trailer--the black natives charging out to attack the white movie crew wasn't unexpected, but it was a little unnerving to actually see it. I'll be interested to see how the movie carries it off.
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Skar

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Re: King Kong
« Reply #31 on: November 11, 2005, 02:14:18 AM »
I'm just waiting for Hollywood to start making movies, with a deadpan, about white savages on a pacific island killing and eating a black Captain Cook.

Why's it always have to be about race?  It's a documented fact, many times over, that white races find, upon first exposure, dark skinned people fascinating, different and intriguing.  And that dark skinned races find white people fascinating different and intriguing.

In Afghanistan we got into some pretty back country places. Places so far back they had only heard vague rumors about the russian occupation for instance.  Our black psyops sergeant drew massive crowds, children and adults alike, who, among other things, wanted to touch his skin and would immediately examine their fingers afterwards to see if any had rubbed off.  

There are plenty of explanations other than the immediately racist ones like "blacks naturally think white women are beautiful because, well, just because whites are better." How about "the damned ape eats all our women, maybe he'll  like this one better."

I'm finding more and more that the most vociferous objections to racism come from people who are only offended because they are deeply racist themselves.
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Re: King Kong
« Reply #32 on: November 11, 2005, 04:16:53 AM »
Ari is quite open with her racism (and she'll be the first to say that the Chinese are racist).

Me, I'm a xenophile, so racism doesn't really jive with my relosophy, you know?
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Re: King Kong
« Reply #33 on: November 11, 2005, 05:46:01 AM »
I can see how the portrayal of different races in King Kong can be considered racists. Course, it is in the 1930s and race relations were different back then.

I don't quite see King Kong as touting white supremacy.
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Re: King Kong
« Reply #34 on: November 11, 2005, 10:35:13 AM »
How about they sacrifice the white woman because she's a stranger they have no emotional attachment to?

How about Kong doesn't eat her because She's a neat toy he's never seen the likes of before?

Shrain

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Re: King Kong
« Reply #35 on: November 11, 2005, 04:13:45 PM »
Quote
How about they sacrifice the white woman because she's a stranger they have no emotional attachment to?


Um, I see your point. However, they didn't sacrifice her solely because they had no emotional attachment to her. After all, they've been offering up their own women for who knows how long. And, presumably, the men do have some sort of fondness for their women. So the fact that the female outsider is just that, an outsider, doesn't preclude all other possible reasons for her little adventure with Kong, right?

Granted, at the very least, they figured they could postpone sacrificing another one of their own women by serving up the delicate-skinned, blonde stranger. Then again, it seems much more plausible that they stop sacrificing their own dark women because they take one look at the white girl and think she's gotta be the tastiest treat they could offer Kong.  

Besides, it stands to reason that they'd never have risked giving Kong a "below standard" entree. Not a good idea to anger a hungry monster. So they had to think that Fay was at least as "valuable" as their own women. On the other hand, it makes even more sense that they have a second bigger reason for selecting Fay: they think this gal, with her peaches-and-cream complexion, might be more irresistably precious than their own women, with their dark, mocha-ish complexions.

(i.e., "Wow, this girl's out-of-this-world strange. Gorgeous even. In fact, she kinda seems more special than all the other chicks we've got hanging 'round here. Hey, here's a thought--anyone think she might just make the big hairball happy enough to leave us alone forever? Golly, wouldn't that be super!?")
« Last Edit: November 11, 2005, 04:17:53 PM by shrain78 »
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cyan10101

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Re: King Kong
« Reply #36 on: November 11, 2005, 04:17:49 PM »
i guess kong likes white chocolate, hehe.
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Re: King Kong
« Reply #37 on: November 11, 2005, 04:18:35 PM »
I dunno, I think that putting off having to sacrifice one of their own is plenty good enough reason. If this strange new toy is the one, so be it.

Besides, their own women hadn't stopped him, so why not try something different? I don't see at all why there has to be a logic of "she's innately superior to our own women" behind their motivation. I think that's projecting a racism on to it that isn't suggested in the text as I know it.

If they say "She's more beautiful than any of our women because she's white and ours aren't" that's one thing. But even if they say she's more beautiful on the basis of being strange and different, being the first white chick they've ever seen, I think you're pushing the use of the racism card.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2005, 04:21:29 PM by SaintEhlers »

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Re: King Kong
« Reply #38 on: November 11, 2005, 04:36:23 PM »
I agree with e.
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cyan10101

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Re: King Kong
« Reply #39 on: November 11, 2005, 05:25:27 PM »
moi aussi.
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Skar

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Re: King Kong
« Reply #40 on: November 11, 2005, 06:23:28 PM »
Quote
Granted, at the very least, they figured they could postpone sacrificing another one of their own women by serving up the delicate-skinned, blonde stranger. Then again, it seems much more plausible that they stop sacrificing their own dark women because they take one look at the white girl and think she's gotta be the tastiest treat they could offer Kong.  

Besides, it stands to reason that they'd never have risked giving Kong a "below standard" entree. Not a good idea to anger a hungry monster. So they had to think that Fay was at least as "valuable" as their own women. On the other hand, it makes even more sense that they have a second bigger reason for selecting Fay: they think this gal, with her peaches-and-cream complexion, might be more irresistably precious than their own women, with their dark, mocha-ish complexions.  


Wow.  This line of reasoning is so racist I can hardly stand it.  Yummy!  If the skin colors were reversed you'd immediately accuse the whites (sacrificing the dark girl) of jumping at the chance to use a less valuable offering.

On the other hand you assume that the blacks are too dumb to grasp the idea that Kong probably wants a nice female gorilla with luxurious back hair rather than a human of any stripe.  Racist.
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Shrain

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Re: King Kong
« Reply #41 on: November 12, 2005, 01:40:48 AM »
Quote


Wow.  This line of reasoning is so racist I can hardly stand it.  Yummy!  If the skin colors were reversed you'd immediately accuse the whites (sacrificing the dark girl) of jumping at the chance to use a less valuable offering.

On the other hand you assume that the blacks are too dumb to grasp the idea that Kong probably wants a nice female gorilla with luxurious back hair rather than a human of any stripe.  Racist.


Skar, you make me laugh. I'm just amazed that you're so quick to call someone whom you don't even know a racist---someone who was merely expressing what -could- be considered a racist element in a plot. I know, I know, you've said that those who protest too much are often the most guilty ones themselves. But is it too much to ask to try to have a civil conversation about a concern/observation regarding a movie? Also, is it my logic that is "racist" or the point itself that I'm arguing? After all, I'm in no way saying that whiteness is superior but only that Western society has defined it as such and has reinforced that in various ways.
Next, I wonder what the heck my observations have to do with thinking blacks are too dumb to know that Kong would prefer a girlfriend of his own kind. I mean, what does that have to do with anything? Ah, the absurdity of it all is so . . . confusing.  ??? Basically, Kong is unhappy. The natives know this and have been offering up their women time and again. I've no doubt that they probably prayed for a female Kong to stumble onto the island. But no such luck! Instead, a white woman comes...
Anyway, honestly, I'm disappointed because all I was trying to do is express some interesting concerns of mine and get others' opinions. Instead, I get what feels like a personal attack. :-[
Second, given that the time-period was rife with racial tension between whites and blacks, I was only suggesting that the hegemonic coding of whiteness as superior -might- have found its way into the plot. Is that such a leap in logic? Is that proof that I'm racist? Well, go ahead and think what you want to. You've already seem to have made up your mind in any case.
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Shrain

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Re: King Kong
« Reply #42 on: November 12, 2005, 02:08:56 AM »
Quote
I dunno, I think that putting off having to sacrifice one of their own is plenty good enough reason. If this strange new toy is the one, so be it.

Besides, their own women hadn't stopped him, so why not try something different? I don't see at all why there has to be a logic of "she's innately superior to our own women" behind their motivation. I think that's projecting a racism on to it that isn't suggested in the text as I know it.

If they say "She's more beautiful than any of our women because she's white and ours aren't" that's one thing. But even if they say she's more beautiful on the basis of being strange and different, being the first white chick they've ever seen, I think you're pushing the use of the racism card.


Thanks for your explanation, e. Very interesting and clear. I'll be the first to say that I'd much rather think "King Kong" -isn't- driven by ulterior racism. So I'm glad to get your thoughts.
The whole "something different" scenario is right on track. That reasoning was sort of the back of my head all along though I didn't state it outright. But I completely agree that the idea of "difference" translating into superiority is certainly less "provable."
I'm entirely willing to admit that I could be basing my concerns too much on the time period in which the film was written. After seeing the trailer, I was reminded of the issues of primitivism and racism that Ishmael Reed explores in his novel Mumbo Jumbo, set during the jazz craze of the early 20th century. To me, in regards to the movie, it didn't seem entirely implausible to consider that "difference" (whiteness) = superiority.
All in all, I brought it up in this forum because I was hoping that my concerns with the film would turn out to be largely unfounded. As I said, I'm excited to see the movie. Yet, rather than ignore something that I've been wondering about, I figured I'd get some other perspectives. Thanks.  :)
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cyan10101

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Re: King Kong
« Reply #43 on: November 12, 2005, 04:42:36 AM »
so, how about that jack black?  <blatant try at changing the subject>
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Re: King Kong
« Reply #44 on: November 12, 2005, 07:36:55 AM »
I think that Jack Black is going to do a good job. He really is a rather talented and versatile actor. (Personally, I would have casted him instead of Tom Cruise in War of the Worlds)

However, he really is better in more humorous roles and this role doesn't seem to fit thta bill. Also, I'm not sure how well he portrays villian roles.
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