Hackmaster

[Mr_Pleasington]

Nice review.

Hackmaster has been one of my favorite games since it's release and I'm a big supporter of it.  While it's not made for those new to role playing or those who favor fast-and-loose systems, it is bread and butter for any fan of old-school gaming.  I mean they took the best parts of first and second edition AD&D, streamlined them, and added all these new crunchy bits to come up with a great system...if it is a little complex.  I can't imagine running this game without the DM Shield (24 panels in the area of a standard 4 panel screen!!! A feat of engineering!).

I ran a game right after the GM Guide was released which ended up being a gruesome TPK (total party kill), but was fun, nonetheless.  Actually, I play in a new campaign starting tommorow and I can't wait!

This game has something that 3E was missing: Heart and Soul.

As for the lingo and grammar in the book, remember that the game was designed to be the same game that the group plays in Knights of the Dinner Table, so there was some things Kenzer was locked into.  Then again, I frequent the Kenzer boards and they all tend to type like that ("Kewl" "Gawd" Etc).  

I'd like to see a review of the GM Guide sometime.  One of the most complete and informative gaming books I've read.  

[Mr_Pleasington]

Well, we just got done with the first session and had a blast.  We're playing through Little Keep on the Borderlands and spent the entirity of the first session roleplaying in the Keep and getting a feel for our surroundings.  We also interviewed a few NPCs to see if they'd cut it as hirelings/party members and none had what it took.

Of course, we were passing ourselves off as "great heroes of the north" when we had just set ourselves adventuring a few months back.  We've even named our group already: "The Iron Trifecta"

Of course is anyone else joins we'll have to pull a KODT and be "The Iron Trifecta +1"

The session ended as we were ambushed by orcs while seeking out a mine.  Quite the cliffhanger.  

It's also a really fun experience finally getting to play through Keep on the Borderlands (though in its new, more detailed form).  There's so much history to this module.  Kenzer does quality work and they spared no bit of detail for this module.  

Just thought I'd share some post-session excitement!

[GuJiaXian]

Saint Ehlers is pretty interested in Hackmaster as well.  I flipped through one or two of his books, and the whole thing seems like a massive joke.  It's so needlessly complex, and he indicated that all 9 (nine!) core books are really required to play.  Sheesh!

[Mr_Pleasington]

I've got to chuckle a little when I hear complaints like this about the game because they're based on early misconceptions that a lot of people took and ran with.

Make not mistake, the game is complex...but not overly complex (at least not in most areas, some rules such as Fatigue seem to be there just to complicate things).  Character creation is initially intimidating but once you get the hang of it your realize that it's one of the most extremely flexible class based systems on the market.  Even more so than 3E.  The players need to know no more than they did in 1st and 2nd ed. AD&D and that info is covered thoroughly in the PHB.  Complication increases exponentially for GMs as there is a ton of paperwork to do to keep track of things like honor and alignment.  The GM has a LOT of work to do and a lot to keep track of, but players do not.  While this is not a game for someone new to roleplaying, veterans should have no trouble learning the game.

Also, you don't need all 10 core books to play.  Not in the slightest.  If you're a player then you need the Player's Handbook.  That's it.  If you're a GM you need the PHB and the GM Guide.  The Hacklopedia of Beasts series is recomended (and required if the GM wants to get sanctioned), but is by no means necessary.  I own 3 HoB and I don't plan on buying any more.  If you run Kenzer modules they have your covered anyway as they print the stats and battle sheets in the module itself.  You could pick up B1: Quest for the Unknown and have enough monster stats to last a long time.  Also, if you have any of the 1st or 2nd edition AD&D Monster Manuals those monsters can almost be directly ported to Hackmaster.  Just give them the 20 hp kicker and you're done.  You could get those books via WOTC ESD for like $4.00.   So to merely play the game price is not prohibitive.  If you want to be a sanctioned GM there's quite a bit more investment, unfortunately...but how many people are going to become sanctioned GMs (though my GM is sanctined .

I hope this cleared things up.  As a fan of the game since its release I get frustrated at many of the misconceptions that are perpetuated about the game on the net.  I thought winning Game of the Year at Origins would clear up a lot of the talk of Hackmaster being a "joke."  While parts of the book is written with a tongue in cheek style to emulate what's already known about the game from Knights of the DInner Table, the game itself is real...and extremely fun if you can get into the old school player vs. DM mindset.  

Hackmaster quickly took the spot as my 2nd favorite RPG...right under Deadlands.

[42]

I don't know, I felt that 1st and 2nd edition AD&D were needlessly complicated. I stuck with D&D basic for years simply out of annoyance for AD&D. I also find that RPGs that require a lot of work out of the GM become prohibitive because no one wants to GM if they have to do all of the work and end up missing out on most of the fun. Finding a GM seems to be the hardest part of getting into role-playing. So I think it is fair to say that it is a drawback for an RPG to require the GM to invest more money and time than the rest of the players.

Also, by relying too much on word of mouth marketing (i.e. new players being introduced by old players) they are seriously hurting their potential market share. They just can't compete with RPGs that can be played straight out of the box without previous experience.

I guess this is my problem with RPGs that are labeled "best for expereinced RPG players." Sure they can be a lot of fun, but I find that most experienced RPG players are just as capable of inventing their own RPG system. "Experinced RPG systems" are just a group of players who wanted to add some more complexity to an existing game system and then decided to market it to other people. Most don't make too far even if they do win awards. I just don't think they have anything on those game designers who are original enough to create their own system without copying from other systems or relying on assumed "RPG traditions."

So Hackmaster, might be a great system, but I think the cost, lack-of-originality and "experience" requirement are all valid criticisms that would affect anyone interested in playing the game.

[Irina]

Gaming systems for experienced gamers can enhance the roleplaying experience (I favor rolemaster, myself).  It also frees the GM's brain for working on more complicated plots (forty in one city, in the last game I was in).  GMs should spend more time working on world-creation, and less time working on creating entirely new systems.

[Slant]

Ii personally love Hackmaster.  It allows us to just cut loose and let go without feeling that we are muchkining out.  i've played a lot in my day, but i'll tell ya: I never really gamed until I ran my Grunge Elf Battle-Mage.  Yes, Hackmaster is a spoof of D&D, but it is also a playable game in it's own right that allows for colorful skills, absurd advancement abilities, and the ability to pimp-slap any mealy-mouthed NPC who has the temerity to beg you for a copper coin.  Hoody-Hoo!!

[Mr_Pleasington]

Hoody Hoo, Indeed!

My group is currently several sessions into our campaign and having an absolute blast!  Surprisingly, we hack only every other session or so as we get deep into role playing in the Little Keep on the Borderlands.  

This is some of the most fun, I've had gaming.  Then again, the fun you have gaming and the system you play most certainly don't have to be related.  It's all about the people...

Anywho, welcome to the boards, Slant!

[Slant]

Well thanxx Mr. P. Glad to be here.  We (my group) play four different games and Hackmaster is becoming our favorite.  My Grunge Elf (Dark Heart) learned the importance of the Phantasmal Fireball as a lowly first level newbie and has found several ways to use it in new and creative deviltry.  His fellow adventurers have taken to calling him "The Phantasmal Menace."  HAH!

[Slant]

Bow down your heads and sing the funeral dirge of Trephon Thistledark, known to the world as Dark Heart the Battle-Mage.  This fierce Grel champion has met his end on the fifteenth day of January, in the year that human-folk call 2003.

Dark Heart, the mage known as The Phantasmal Menace.

Dark Heart, conquerer of orcs, hobgoblins, ogres, and really really rude hobbits.

Dark Heart, fiercely protective of his lover, the Drow Singha, even after she preforated his nose with her dagger.

Dark Heart, slayer of the ancient red dragon Moltenchar within a terse duel that lasted all of thirty seconds.

Dark Heart, who invaded the Iron Mountains and slew the seemingly indestructable demon Glaiventhrock.

Dark Heart, the lone survivor of the Mad God's Challenge.

Dark Heart, who met his end attempting to seduce a comely lass who was in truth a medusa with an illusion of normality thrown upon her.

He will be sorely missed.

Until his mates get his sorry butt raised at least.

Dark Heart: Born March 18th, 2001, died (for the first time) January 15th, 2003.

[Nicadymus]

A lament for Dark Heart.

What do they say?

I have not the heart to tell.  For me the grief is still too near.

But a prophecy states that he will again walk the world of men.

The question is....."When?"

[Slant]

Huzzah, huzzah!  Dark Heart walks the lands of Men once more.  

His companions paid for a 'stone to flesh' spell to restore him to his original squishy organic goodness without having to worry about raise dead or resurrection magic.  Of course, while he was disoriented for the first few seconds of becoming flesh again, his buddy the thug halfling "Boss" Malito stabbed him with a dagger of anguish and killed him.  Malito had him raised properly, telling Dark Heart that he was only 1500 XP's away from 10th level and a 9th level Battle-Mage was worth a lot of points.  He apologized to Dark Heart, saying it was just "one a dose t'ings" and that he would return the favor some day.  Dark Heart understood perfectly and cast a spell of fiery doom on his halfling friend that did 89 points of damage.  They paid for "Boss" Malito to be raised and then party leader Singha suggested that the two of them take some time apart from each other to prevent an all-out war and that she would gather them all together once more when news of a new adventure reached her pointy lil' ears.

Dark Heart struck out for Parts Unknown, accompanied only by the rogue Pixie-Fairy Anonymous ("Mouse" to her friends).  In time, he will once again heed the call to glory and loot.

[Spriggan]

Scott Kurtz rips on Hackmaster and I post it here to get all you fanboys upset.  Evil aren't I.

The Origin Awards are SO PRESTIGIOUS that they are determined by open public voting via the internet. So, the more online votes you can get, the better your chances of winning.

Last year, KENZERCO pissed off a lot of people by winning the BEST GAME AWARD for their Hackmaster series (which basically is 1st edition DnD, reprinted) and sending up two random Kenzer fans to accept the awards. People felt that Kenzer was mocking the awards and maybe he was. Maybe he was trying to point out how anyone with a good amount of webtraffic could win himself an award.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

Heh, Scott Kurtz always things he's right. Sometimes he is. Sometimes he's just being a prick. Either way, I suspect he intends the result he gets.

Yeah, I don't necessarily think the awards mean much, except that some people do so it may mean more revenue, so it's still worth winning.

so why is it so bad that Kenzer did this? Doing it shows innate problems with the system. It's not exactly important to me socially, but it is to Kenzer, since it's his industry.

<shrug> Just some random thoughts.

[Mr_Pleasington]

There are a lot of people upset with the ORigin awards *again* this year and it seems Kurtz is one of them.

On a side note...man, I love PVP!

Okay, back on track.  Dave Kenzer was completely pissy during the entire con from what I hear.  Either yelling at Hackmaster players or complaining that Jolly invented gaming comics, not John Kovaliac (sp).  Weird.

Oh, well.