Palladium in Trouble

[Mr_Pleasington]

There's a lot of this that doesn't totally add up.  I've asked some questions on other forums about similar subjects as talked about above, for instance the fact that the Ngage ordeal and hte movie should have lost them money...but it was brought up it was more of a loss of people devoting time to work than anything else.

Some other points...

1) It's been confirmed that the embezzlement/theft is the same that was announced a few months back.  Sure, it's bad, but from the list he posted of stuff that was stolen I can't see anything that would put him nearly close to the million bucks he says he's lost. Obviously, we know nothing of embezzlement.   The big question here is an easy one...doesn't he have insurance?  I'm a new business owner and if this kind of thing happened to me, I'd be fine because I bought insurance, you'd think a guy running his own company for 25 years would have invested in that.

2) If Palladium is so desperate, why haven't they taken to other methods before asking for what amounts to a handout?  I mentioned PDFs earlier, which would show them good return as they are closely tied to the distributor of DTRPG and basically all the work on them is done...they just have to convert them.  They could put up OOP items like this and at least make some money back.  

Also, why not do what other companies do when they're in trouble and encourage sales.  Sell off backstock directly at 25% - 30% off and he could take in some dough.

Or, god forbid, open the company.  Stockholders could save it.

Why were these options tried before begging the fans?  It's bad business.

3) I have real problems with the whole "give a handout and you're a hero" statment in the release.  Giving money to a company you like when they're in trouble doesn't make you a hero.  There are plenty of charities you can donate to that would qualify you as a hero.  Giving a company you have no say in money just so they can make more product that you can buy does not make you anything close to a hero.

Just more thoughts...

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

1) As extrernal to the affairs, I'm sure that you can't realistically identify the real price tag. Maybe he's lying. I don't see that there's any real evidence that he is though. As for the losses of the other events, Kevin doesn't claim those as money losses in his letter. He lists them as opportunities that didn't pan out.

As for insurance? Well, bad business decision. This makes him a bad person?

2) i'm not sure why the handout thing keeps coming up. He's asking people to buy something. Something with a large profit margin, true, but it's a purchase, not a giving money for nothing. In short, it *is* one of those "other options" you keep harping on. I don't know why you're so stuck on pdf. pdf is Much more easily (and cheaply) copied and distributed than print. It's not a gamble all companies are willing to make, and I understand that.

3) I don't remember the word "hero" in the open letter, but maybe when I go read it again I'll see it. You seem to imply that it's morally wrong to give money to someone you like so he can keep doing something that has brought you pleasure in the past. While it's hardly "heroic" from an external perspective, I'll agree, it's also a good show of friendship. And, if you were the beneficiary, then you are "saved," in a very real sense, and I'm sure the doner looks like a hero to you.

-- correction, the word "hero" does come up three times. Once as the title of the section of a book where the print purchasers will be listed. "Heroes of the Megaverse -- implying that the purchasers saved Rifts, which, in reality, they will have. Once it comes up in the title "Heroes Unlimited," not relevant, and once he says it as an actual adjective of purchasers... if they help them out by working to spread the news. I guess you can still have a problem with it, but it hardly seems like an abhorrent usage of the word.


I'm entirely comfortable with the model. Web comics and other web sites have been using the donate or purchase merch to help me out for years. If you want them to stay in business, this is what it will take at this point. So why is that so bad?

[Spriggan]

I don't get what the attraction of PDFs is with gamers, I've never liked them myself, and I understand even less why there's this element on the web that's decided if you don't sell PDFs then your a moron.  

As for the insurance, maybe they had it and it didn't cover all the losses (there is limits on what it will cover and how much) or maybe they didn't have it.  It's a point, but not one that concerns me.

I don't have a problem with the word hero nor him asking you to buy a print.  As I've stated before $50 for a signed print isn't that expensive, and it's a lot more respectable then all these web comic people begging for money ever week via donations (like the OOTS guy asking $5 for a freaking wallpaper).

I don't even know why people are bringing up the idea of palladium going public and selling stocks.  Come on, this is an RPG company, I doubt any of them but WotC even make enough a year to be allowed to go public.

I guess it's a difference of opinions that won't change, but I see nothing wrong with what Kevin is doing.  I'm actually glad he turned to the fans with the problems instead of just crumbling like what happened to Steve Jackson games a few years ago.

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

would this be the SJG thats going stronger than ever?

I dont remember anything about that at all.

[Spriggan]

I had no idea either, yet many people have been bringing it up on other sites.  Apparently they almost did close down a few years ago, not sure what they did to come back but many people have said they hope Palladium doesn't do as bad as they did during that time.

[Entsuropi]

SJGames are noted for releasing reports of their fiscal health - despite being a private owned company. SJ himself says he likes to do that so the fans know how their favourite company is doing. Always respected him for that.

[Spriggan]

Aside from WotC (which is public) I think they're the only RPG company that does that.  Quite commendable since it's the only real gauge we have on how the market is doing.

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

Did some reaserch SJG bounced back with Munchkin and a few other card games. They had an embezzlement issue too.

I found out some interesting stuff too about the supposed million dollar figure in Palladiums thing. Some of that cash was vapor, and a lot of it wasn't technically the companies. Apparently some of it is Simbedas personal animation cell collection and "art proofs" and original pieces of art for past books which he is using for a "projected" future loss in the thousands and hundreds of thousands of dollars. In addition the library of first print, first editions was stolen too as well as a few boxes of minis.  Im not sure how much of that could actually be sold for capital or not. Its tricky because Palladium is Simbeda and its finances are his own, and no one elses. I still think the whole thing is unfortunate, but Im leaning a bit toward pleasingtons "doesn't quite add up" attitude.

Still they deserve our help, so as soon as the banner can go up the better.

[42]

More commentary:

Full Frontal Nerdity

[Eagle Prince]

Lol, backstabed by the party's thief.  Nice, this is why I think DnD gives paladins detect evil at will.

I am just one boy, but I have spent easily ten times more on tabletop rpgs in the last four years then the rest of my life combined.

My personal impression of D&D product, the rules of supply and demand are probably the main cause of any sales fluctuation.  When 3.0 first came out, lots of people (like myself) bought every new book and suppliment that came out.  Since there was so little 3rd edition product, then people are more thirsty for it and there is a demand.  So then it made more and more releases come out, I mean there are a few new dnd products every month, compared to the start of 3.0 when the PHB came out, then 2 months or so later DMG, then another 2 or so months after that the MM.  The 3.5 edition helped a bit, but mostly just delayed it.  There are so many books now that people are way more choosy about what to buy.

Wow, how does this even apply to the subject anymore?  Okay, well going back to the idea of supply and demand, if you want continued growth in the market rather than it just going stagnet and declining, then you have to get more competitive.  So you need better and/or cheaper products.  Here I think is where the pdf thing comes in, as you can oftentimes get a digital copy at 1/3 to 1/6 the cost of a hard copy.  Also then comparing Palladium and other such books to WotC, with the hardback and artwork, obviously you have better quality.  Since it's already been brought up in this thread, then I think its understood how much this can play a role in the current rpg marketplace.  Of course, then there is the actual content which also plays an important part of overall quality, large enough that individual subtopics could merit their own discussion (such as errata).

Now when you also have to suddenly pay more for editors, binding, color print, artists, etc. then even if your sales are growing, the extra overhead might still mean less earnings.  Anyway, this is mostly my explination of how profits in the rpg market could be down, when I think the gross is probably at a high (well it might have actually peeked a few years ago, I have no idea, but it has to still be way way above what it was ten and twenty years ago, or whenver Palladium started up).

[meatwadf]

Here for more on the Palladium situation.

http://forum.rpg.net/showpost.php?p=1445566&postcount=184

[Spriggan]

Way to bring up a three year old post buy a disgruntled ex-employee that had only visited Palladium offices once.  The funniest part about that thread is how no one on RPG.net understands what "free lance" means.  While there's interesting things in that post, Colins has such a huge axe to grind it's hard to tell what's true and what's not.

[Mr_Pleasington]

Ooooh, the "Crisis of Treachery" continues.

I throw up a bit in my mouth every time I hear that term.

Read here: http://forums.palladium-megaverse.com/viewtopic.php?t=65409

Seriously, the first time they begged for cash it was sad, but this is just pathetic.  I wonder if all the folks who donated last time will wise up about this.

At least this time he's pushing sales more even though he implies throughout the whole thing that sales alone won't save the company.

Talk about losing all shreds of dignity and respect.

[Mr_Pleasington]

Way to bring up a three year old post buy a disgruntled ex-employee that had only visited Palladium offices once.  The funniest part about that thread is how no one on RPG.net understands what "free lance" means.  While there's interesting things in that post, Colins has such a huge axe to grind it's hard to tell what's true and what's not.

Just wanted to point out that besides Bill Coffin, Steve Conan Trustram and Jason Vey have also recounted their experiences while freelancing for Palladium and basically say the same thing Bill does (just with a lot less vitriol).

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

and to be honest, his account of how the book is made doesnt sound far fetched at all.