Author Topic: Onslaught  (Read 17161 times)

Prometheus

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Re: Onslaught
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2002, 03:12:52 PM »
There aren't a whole ton...probably 5-6, and they're all white. The big backbreaker is the Gustcloak Savior, that makes all of your creatures able to gustcloak.
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Lord_of_Me

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Re: Onslaught
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2002, 09:16:42 AM »
i like them, i'll probably try and get a few

Prometheus

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Re: Onslaught
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2002, 11:35:16 PM »
I was up by the mall today running a far more important errand, so I dropped by Games People Play to see what I could scrounge out of the commons box. I had intended to only spend the change in my pocket from said errand, but wound up walking out with somewhat more than that...all commons, but $2 worth instead of $.41 (Suddenly I'm annoyed by the lack of a 'cents' symbol on my keyboard. I should have known better after the release of a new expansion.

Almost all of what I picked up was from Onslaught...I got 1 each of the new cycling lands, 4 Screaming Seahawks, 3 Daru Cavalier, (None need look at Games People Play for more of those. They're out now.) 3 Nantuko Husks, and some other miscellany. (sp?)

At any rate, I've got two almost completely unblooded decks ready to rumble now, and I'm itching for a brawl. Does anyone else want to set up something? This Saturday maybe? If we get bored of Magic, we could take another run at that Rifts CCG too...we still have those decks, right?
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Fellfrosch

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Re: Onslaught
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2002, 02:32:35 AM »
I thought Prometheus might be interested in this--teh first true Onslaught deck to emerge on the tournament scene is, in fact, a dedicated cycling deck. Sounds pretty cool: http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/expandnews.php?Article=3956
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Prometheus

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Re: Onslaught
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2002, 03:14:25 AM »
Flex. I would have included Invigorating Boon myself, but at the same time, I wouldn't be building my deck with only what, 5-6 enemy deck strategies in mind? High level tourney play borders on the bizarre. While I was scrounging through the Games People Play commons box, I met a local gamer that seemed of that sort. The only decks he seemed able to talk about were things like infinite-mana-Ambassador Laquattas combos and such things. In the end, all I could do is laugh and explain that he and I play for *entirely* different reasons. The decks some people play sound thoroughly boring to me. So what if you destroy your opponent in 5 rounds every single game? If I wanted a predictable result, I'd pick some crappy computer game and skip making someone else suffer.

Which brings me back to local play. Are you interested in getting together with EUOL maybe sometime and playing Magic with me, Fell? My untested deck count is up to three now. I don't expect the newcomer to do all that well, but with the commons I picked up, I've managed to throw together a Zombie/Bird/Soldier deck that should feel at least a little bit tribal-ish. (They might not work together the way tribal cards are meant to, but every creature in the deck is either a Zombie, a Bird, or a Soldier. Invasion actually works really well with tribal if you pick the right cards...most of which I don't have.) None of this deck building stuff is very satisfying, however, if I don't get to play.

Some of the other Magic players we know in the area have expressed reservations about playing with the two of you due to your huge card reserves, but it'd be cool if we could convince them to join in as well. If not, we could even take our game to one of the gaming stores in town and play there. Maybe someone there would be adventurous enough to jump in and try our house rules out.
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Fellfrosch

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Re: Onslaught
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2002, 01:50:45 PM »
We actually invented a new variant of Magic during our trip to WFC, and it's loads of fun: you play as if every alternate win condition were always in play for every player, and if you aren't dead at the beginning of your turn your life automatically resets to 20. There's some other weird rules, but that's the gist. I know it sounds weird, but it's very cool. We'll have to play some time.

Of all the locals, Prometheus, it seems like you're the one people should be afraid of playing, because you play to win. I don't, in general, and my decks are more to amuse myself than to destroy my foes. I do think we should play sometime, though, both 100/3 and Onslaught draft (since new set drafts have become something of a tradition).
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Prometheus

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Re: Onslaught
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2002, 08:17:01 PM »
I wasn't trying to comment on who the scariest people to play were...only on what I understand some of our friends think. I'm not sure what you meant by me 'playing to win' but it seems like that phrase applies to pretty much everyone except maybe you around here. I haven't noticed your decks becoming hideously overpowered, but it isn't me that has the concern.

An Onslaught Draft assumes that we have cards to draft with...last I heard we hadn't received any from Wizards.

So are you interested in trying to set a game time up, Fell? I could I guess, but either way we need to start planning by choosing a time some of you busy people are free to do it. We should probably move this discussion (not the overall Onslaught one) to a new thread under News or something as well. It's getting pretty irrelevant to our distant friends.
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Prometheus

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Re: Onslaught
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2002, 05:40:05 PM »
When did our decklists cross over from the realm of the wacky to the boring? Nothing is worse than decks built entirely around infinite combinations. Snore. What's the fun in that? Hoping that your cards fall just right so you can kill your opponent in one go? Big deal. I may build my decks to be strong, but they're never that cheesy. The Insurrection-based deck two weeks ago was the same way. It didn't even need an infinite combo to win in a hideously dull manner. Where's the competition?

I don't know. Maybe these decks seem wacky and exciting to some people, but I prefer not to know how I'm going to win. Get a solid series of creatures out on the table to slug it out in a furious deathmatch with the other side, while maintaining some tricky moves up your sleeve. The odd burn spell or creature buff instant to turn the tables in your favor is certainly a good thing, but I never know which one will make the difference for me.

Thinking about it more, maybe the thing about these decks that is bothering me most is that they're one-trick horses. Sure, reanimating everything in sight might be a cool way to win, but only *once* in a while. I put combos in my decks, but I rarely expect to see them show up, because there's only one instance of the cards needed to make it work. To me, this accomplishes two things. First, when the combo does come up, I can feel excited about it because, "Wow look! It actually happened!" Second, when I attempt to do the trick, there's a much greater chance that it can counter or backfire, since I don't have the redundancy of three other cards that could make the whole thing go if one gets countered. My Invasion-heavy 5 color deck that I used for so long had a really cool combo in it, but I think I only pulled it off once. That creates underused potential perhaps, but there's at least always the trill of trying to pull it off all over again.

I guess the reason I got started on this is that I recently browsed over a few decklists online that were designed with the big-name tournaments in mind, and the decks we've been seeing recently reminded me greatly of those. Fell didn't go over how the decks matched up against Sligh or somesuch, but it still felt the same.

So...what do I think makes fun, interesting decks? First, pick a theme. My largely untested planeshifting deck is like this. Most of the cards I put in there are designed to planeshift heavily, bouncing creatures in and out of play faster than you can keep up with them, and doing cool effects at the same time. Other themes could be creature types. Or something--perhaps even Fell's old Nightmare deck. This serves to make the deck interesting and reliable. It gives you something to do if your cool tricks don't show up.

After that, you get to start adding tricks such as the Artificial Evolution/Rotlung Reanimator combo Fell outlined for us. The difference here is that there aren't 4 of each in the deck, but one instead. Then you get to look for other wacky ways to win. I'd rather have multiple tricks, hopefully that use overlapping cards so some of them actually happen on a semi-regular basis. More tricks = more fun. The tricks should also interact well with the theme of the deck just to make it cooler. A good example of cool tricks in the Planeshifting deck I described above is my Caldera Kavu/Pledge of Loyalty combination. Pledge of Loyalty gives the creature it enchants protection from every color of pernaments you control. The first impulse is to place this on a creature with lots of colors or that has a high power/toughness. The Caldera Kavu is a better choice however. It pumps on 1B for starters, but that's not the point. This little 2/2 Kavu also changes color for one green mana. This means that any attempts to block/get by/destroy the Kavu have to deal with the Pledge of Loyalty on it. If you don't have a black pernament in play, spend G and make the kavu black when the black destruction spells come down. Blue creature bouncing? The same trick works. The little guy would also be very hard to block as well, and even harder to kill or get by on an attack. The coolest part of this combo is that the separate parts are both highly useful separately. The Caldera Kavu can become any color you need to make Planeshifting work or pump up huge if you need it to. Pledge of Loyalty is just plain useful no matter where you put it in a 5-color deck. Add in a full set of familiars and my almost full set of Sanctuary enchantments, (full set meaning one of each color) and you have a full array of 'trick-or-treats' to play on someone, not just a single goofy infinite combo that will make your deck boring or predictable after a couple plays, not to mention losing you playing partners as people become tired of being trounced repeatedly by 5,000 zombie tokens.

After all, no one would like Halloween if it was every day.
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Fellfrosch

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Re: Onslaught
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2002, 07:09:04 PM »
You're missing the point.

The kind of deck you're talking about is the kind of deck we all play (at least those of us here in Utah)--a large, multi-colored deck with lots of solid creatures and useful spells, that can hold its own  against multiple opponents and anything that gets thrown at it. We play these kinds of decks because it's the style of Magic we've grown to love, and because they're just plain fun to play. You'll get no arguments there.

We do not, however, post decklists of these types of decks, and for a multitude of reasons. First, I simply can't come up with a new 100 card deck every week. Second, because that kind of deck is just plain uninteresting outside of an actual game--they're fun to play, but there's rarely any kind of flashy hook that stands out while you're reading the decklist. It's just a list of cards with no obvious synergy or flair.

The third reason is probably the biggest--I don't have the time or the will to come up with a decklist that doesn't inspire me in any way. Like I said in last week's column, I tried to make a solid zombie deck without any weird stuff in it and I just couldn't--there was no catchy little theme that I could sink my teeth into, and it was just too bland. Such a deck would probably be a hoot to play, but that's not what I'm doing. I'm writing articles about card combos that I find to be amusing and tricks that I find to be clever. They're one-trick ponies because they're designed to be one-trick ponies; I don't have the time to do more than one trick per week.

I suppose I could build a combo or two and then fluff up the deck with all kinds of other cards, to make it look more like a 100/3 deck, but I don't think that's necessary. If someone likes my combo they'll incorporate it into their own deck--I hold no delusions that my decklists will ever be played in the form I present them. I have to find a medium between presenting an enormous deck (which would be too much work for a weekly article) and presenting a simple combo (which wouldn't fill an entire article) so I chose to do 60-card decklists.

Now, I'm not saying that I'm opposed to posting articles of larger, more varied decks. I'm just opposed to writing all those articles. If you, Prometheus, or anyone else would like to submit a decklist and an article of their own, please do. You've gone on at length (and surprising rudeness) about how my articles are boring. Step up to the plate and show that you can do better.
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Prometheus

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Re: Onslaught
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2002, 01:27:19 AM »
I figured some of that was going to get me in trouble. While I didn't truly mean to offend, I'm not going to apologize for my opinions. The language maybe, but not the essence of what I said.

I guess part of the the reason I went off is that I've heard much about making wacky decks that aren't too serious about winning, but saw little other than instant-kill combos. While I understand that it wouldn't be easy to kick out a truly good decklist each week yourself, the decks I saw didn't seem to go with what I thought our Magic columns were about. If you needed help you could've said something.
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Lord_of_Me

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Re: Onslaught
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2002, 11:58:00 AM »
I think you're both half right, decklists for 100/3 would be dull and boring but combo decks are much the same.(I don't like decklists in general because i never have the right cards). THings like the Thallid deck from ages ago were my favourite types of article.

Fellfrosch

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Re: Onslaught
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2002, 01:59:42 PM »
Prometheus' answer to my old decklists is posted, and it seems like a fun deck to play (it's also well-written, which is a plus).

I want to make sure that we give you the kinds of CCG articles you want to read, so give me your feedback. Is this more of what you're looking for? The style of the article is essentially identical to what I was writing before, though the style of deck is vastly different. Is changing the types of decks we write about enough, or do we need to change the articles themselves? Tell me what you want to read and we'll do our best to get it to you.
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Lord_of_Me

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Re: Onslaught
« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2002, 04:15:04 PM »
i liked the article, it sounds like a fun deck to use. Interestingly i think it would be really good at overkill

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Re: Onslaught
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2002, 08:11:00 PM »
I really like Overkill.  Of course, I love coming up with new magic varients.  Onslaught looks fun, from the few cards I've seen.  We'll have to playtest it more.  Hey Fell, any luck at getting us some boosters?
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Lord_of_Me

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Re: Onslaught
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2002, 11:48:50 AM »
hmmm... maybe i should set up a review site just to get free stuff