Author Topic: King Arthur  (Read 2447 times)

Rose Lewis

  • Guest
King Arthur
« on: April 05, 2004, 02:06:50 PM »
 ??? Hi, I am one of Brandon Sanderson's creative writing students and I am looking for information about King Arthur. Who were Athur's parents? Who was Merlin, exactly (was he noble or peasant born)? Where and when did Merlin show up? Did he have any family? Who were Guinivere's parents/ family? What was her age in relationship to Arthur's? Where did the Lady of the Lake come from and where did she get Excaliber?
If you have the answers to any of these questions I would appreciate it very much if you answered on this forum or e-mailed me at [email protected]
Thanks.
--Rose Lewis

EUOL

  • Moderator
  • Level 58
  • *
  • Posts: 4708
  • Fell Points: 33
  • Mr. Prolific [tm]
    • View Profile
    • Brandon Sanderson dot com
Re: King Arthur
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2004, 02:09:41 PM »
I told her she could drop by and start up an Arthur thread to get some expert advice.  Can you help her out, SE?
http://www.BrandonSanderson.com

"Technically, I don't even have a brain."--Fellfrosch

Mad Dr Jeffe

  • Level 74
  • *
  • Posts: 9162
  • Fell Points: 7
  • Devils Advocate General
    • View Profile
Re: King Arthur
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2004, 02:15:44 PM »
/me runs for the hills
Its an automated robot. Based on Science!

EUOL

  • Moderator
  • Level 58
  • *
  • Posts: 4708
  • Fell Points: 33
  • Mr. Prolific [tm]
    • View Profile
    • Brandon Sanderson dot com
Re: King Arthur
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2004, 02:17:52 PM »
Lol.   Asking SE for Arthur advice IS a bit like asking a Mormon missionary if he knows of a good church to attend....
http://www.BrandonSanderson.com

"Technically, I don't even have a brain."--Fellfrosch

Mad Dr Jeffe

  • Level 74
  • *
  • Posts: 9162
  • Fell Points: 7
  • Devils Advocate General
    • View Profile
Re: King Arthur
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2004, 02:20:34 PM »
no, its more like asking a missionary what he'd like for dinner when he gets back home.
Its an automated robot. Based on Science!

Mistress of Darkness

  • Level 37
  • *
  • Posts: 2322
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Mama
    • View Profile
Re: King Arthur
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2004, 02:22:38 PM »
It doesn't help that all of her questions have different answers, depending on the source you appeal to.
" If i ever need a pen-name I'd choose EUOL, just to confuse everyone. " --Entropy

Mad Dr Jeffe

  • Level 74
  • *
  • Posts: 9162
  • Fell Points: 7
  • Devils Advocate General
    • View Profile
Re: King Arthur
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2004, 02:24:51 PM »
Lets give the kid the basic answer...
Its an automated robot. Based on Science!

The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers

  • Administrator
  • Level 96
  • *****
  • Posts: 19211
  • Fell Points: 17
  • monkeys? yes.
    • View Profile
    • herb's world
Re: King Arthur
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2004, 02:25:52 PM »
Of COURSE I can help her. Longer post coming to follow up. I'll answer those specific questions, and tonight, when I have access to my bib, I'll post some references I think you should look at.

EUOL

  • Moderator
  • Level 58
  • *
  • Posts: 4708
  • Fell Points: 33
  • Mr. Prolific [tm]
    • View Profile
    • Brandon Sanderson dot com
Re: King Arthur
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2004, 02:31:57 PM »
I knew you'd help--she came to me with an Arthur question at the beginning of the semester.  It took me this long to convince her that coming to you would be beneficial to her story.
http://www.BrandonSanderson.com

"Technically, I don't even have a brain."--Fellfrosch

Mad Dr Jeffe

  • Level 74
  • *
  • Posts: 9162
  • Fell Points: 7
  • Devils Advocate General
    • View Profile
Re: King Arthur
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2004, 02:33:21 PM »
Yes, but its a little like sending a reporter to a crack addict to cover the drug trade.
Its an automated robot. Based on Science!

The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers

  • Administrator
  • Level 96
  • *****
  • Posts: 19211
  • Fell Points: 17
  • monkeys? yes.
    • View Profile
    • herb's world
Re: King Arthur
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2004, 02:45:50 PM »
first off, MoD is right. Nearly all of these questions have more than one valid answer. But let me address them and give you the basics.

Quote
Who were Athur's parents?
Uther Pendragon and the wife of the Duke of Cornwall (Often unnamed, but usually Igraine is her name). Yes, it was adultrous. The duke saw Uther falling in love with his wife and took her away. Which made King Uther right angry. He laid seige to Tintagel (Cornwall's home). Seeing this wasn't working, he distracted him with a battle further away, and with a disguise given him by Merlin, he snuck in with the appearance of the duke, slept with the woman, and sired Arthur. In the mean time, the duke died in battle, and Uther marries the duchess before Arthur is born.

Quote
Who was Merlin, exactly (was he noble or peasant born)? Where and when did Merlin show up? Did he have any family?
"exactly" is not something I can answer. As for his family, it depends on the story, and varies widely. Recent Arthurian offerings make him a Druid or other pagan religious leader. Some texts make him an obscure noble's son with "the gift." Other's have him come out of no where. Pick your favorite, I guess. My favorite story is a bit heretical. The next Paragraph is rated PG-13 at best folks, that's my only warning:
A demon wanted to create an anti-christ and raped a young virgin. The woman, however, baptized the baby as soon as he was  born (the demon was waiting to take possession of the child), thus saving him (these were staunchly Catholic times). Thus Merlin's powers are dark powers, granted by his diabolic heritage, but he's a good Christian nonetheless.
Other traditions conflate (combine) him with the figure of Taliesin, a bard of legendary status. This would make him quite old. The traditions of Taliesin start before the traditions of Arthur, probably 3 or 4th century if I had to guess (Arthur is 5th century, at the absolute earliest). As for when he appears in the Arthurian cycle, much earlier than Arthur, as he was a wizard of note before he was born. He did, in fact, prophecy for King Vortigern, who preceded Uther (Arthur's father) as High King. Often there are severl kings betwee Vortigern and Uther, making Merlin very, very old by the time Arthur happens along.

Quote
Who were Guinivere's parents/ family? What was her age in relationship to Arthur's?
I can't remember their names right now. I'll edit this when I have my Arthurian Encyclopedia to refresh myself. The cool thing to note is that in almost all traditions, the famous round table is a wedding gift from Gwen's father. Just going by medieval marriage traditions, she's probably a few years younger than Arthur, though they would both be relatively young when married.

Quote
Where did the Lady of the Lake come from and where did she get Excaliber?
This is another "pick your favorite answer" question. She could be a faerie, a pagan goddess, or a priestess (pagan or possibly Christian if you stretched it). As far as I know, there is no standard answer to how she got Excalibur. Some say Merlin brought it to her before Arthur was born. Others that she brought it on her own (with no other source given). The order of the lady presenting the sword and Arthur drawing it from the stone is confused too. Sometimes one, sometimes the other. Sometimes it's two different stones. Merlin sometimes forged it, sometimes he found it. Sometimes it's a sword from time out of mind, sometimes a sword that belonged to some specific rulers (like Macsen/Maximillion who left Britain to conquer and rule Rome during the empire's decline).
The only important thing is that it's magically sharp, and that the scabbard it comes with it is a great defense: the person who retains the scabbard cannot receive a mortal wound.


What? No grail questions?

Mad Dr Jeffe

  • Level 74
  • *
  • Posts: 9162
  • Fell Points: 7
  • Devils Advocate General
    • View Profile
Re: King Arthur
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2004, 02:49:25 PM »
wasn't Guinivere's father Leodegrance of Camilyard?
At least in the Mallory.
Spellings prolly off.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2004, 02:55:45 PM by ElJeffe »
Its an automated robot. Based on Science!

fuzzyoctopus

  • Level 57
  • *
  • Posts: 4556
  • Fell Points: 0
  • fearsome and furry
    • View Profile
Re: King Arthur
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2004, 02:54:47 PM »
Eric, while we're on the subject, what are your opinions of the trailers for the new King Arthur movie?  I saw it before Hellboy, and could only think that  Guinivere looked somewhat cool instead of the regular annoying, "Megan-wants-to-strangle-the-slut" they usually cast.
"Hr hr! dwn wth vwls!" - Spriggan

I reject your reality, and substitute my own. - Adam Savage, Mythbusters

French is a language meant to be butchered, especially by drunk Scotts. - Spriggan

The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers

  • Administrator
  • Level 96
  • *****
  • Posts: 19211
  • Fell Points: 17
  • monkeys? yes.
    • View Profile
    • herb's world
Re: King Arthur
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2004, 03:00:25 PM »
lol, I actually haven't seen them. What spoilers we hear tell about on Arthurnet however, make us displeased with what they might be doing.

More interesting is the Tristan and Isolde film in production.

EUOL

  • Moderator
  • Level 58
  • *
  • Posts: 4708
  • Fell Points: 33
  • Mr. Prolific [tm]
    • View Profile
    • Brandon Sanderson dot com
Re: King Arthur
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2004, 03:03:30 PM »
What's the community's feeling on that made for TV 'Merlin' movie that came out a few years back?
http://www.BrandonSanderson.com

"Technically, I don't even have a brain."--Fellfrosch