Author Topic: Behind the Counter: $5.15 an Hour  (Read 8456 times)

FirstMateJack

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Re: Behind the Counter: $5.15 an Hour
« Reply #45 on: April 21, 2006, 01:11:45 PM »
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Shocking.  And we thought Stalin was bad...

Yes, I have an anarchy symbol in my picture. Yes, I have isocratic beliefs. I do not have communist beliefs. Communism is not the same as Isocracy. You really should do research before you bash me based on that. You also say no-one lives well, but I'm pretty sure there aren't a lot of true isocracies around to test that theory. It's not an easy system to create, and probably will require posthumanism first, which is ok by me.


I know that Isocracy is and Anarchy as well as communism and socialism, Isocracy is where everyone has equal political power. Anarachy is where no one has the ability to coerce or force someone into a decision they don't want to make. They are huge differences, I don't see why you claim the symbol and then act like it is obvious you are isocratic.


Socialism is where the people own everything equally, and distribution is based on the whole needs of all the people.
Even Hitler was a socialist as was Stalin, it's just he was a communist as well.

So, when you make comments like the Salin one, and socialized medicare in the next it doesn't leave to much wondering which form of socialism you gravitate towards.

The government shouldn't force everyone to pay for something that a person can do on their own. I also feel that public schooling is one of the worst things that can happen, no government employee should be allowed to strike, join a union or receive tenure.


Exactly as Skar said.. eventually all socialized systems break down.. the poor abuse it, and the rich can't afford it.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2006, 01:12:54 PM by FirstMateJack »
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Entsuropi

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Re: Behind the Counter: $5.15 an Hour
« Reply #46 on: April 21, 2006, 02:53:20 PM »
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Even Hitler was a socialist as was Stalin, it's just he was a communist as well.


Fascism != socialist.
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Fellfrosch

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Re: Behind the Counter: $5.15 an Hour
« Reply #47 on: April 21, 2006, 03:08:45 PM »
That is not correct. Fascism is the idea that a nation or state is superior to the individuals. Not the idea that all individuals have equal claim on the government property.

Many find fascism hard to define, or add that a fascist government also holds that race is superior, this is a less commonly accepted view. Hitler's form of fascism was that the workers party (and thus, the white race) were the superior, and therefore had claim to everything equally. Which is why Hitler's government is often viewed as a none fascism. The one thing everyone agrees on, is that Italy created the one and only completely true fascist state in the early 1920's as a direct movement against Socialist and Communist fronts in Russia.

In true fascism, the state is more important than that of the individual, whereas in a true socialist view, the opposite holds, where the state must lay down before the needs of the individuals (as all individuals are equal and have equal claim the the services of the state). Where in fascisim, the state may choose whether or not the individual is worthy of the state's service's.

They are totally and completely oppostie in the true forms. No... Fascism does not equal Socialism.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2006, 03:11:57 PM by FirstMateJack »
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The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers

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Re: Behind the Counter: $5.15 an Hour
« Reply #48 on: April 21, 2006, 03:37:10 PM »
jack, you actually agreed with Ent there.

!= means NOT equal to

FirstMateJack

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Re: Behind the Counter: $5.15 an Hour
« Reply #49 on: April 21, 2006, 04:06:54 PM »
My bad, I apologize, Ent if I was at all offensive!

... I am unsure as to what is being said, in relation to my quote.

« Last Edit: April 21, 2006, 04:18:11 PM by FirstMateJack »
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Re: Behind the Counter: $5.15 an Hour
« Reply #50 on: April 21, 2006, 04:24:36 PM »
I think he was saying that you labelling Hitler a socialist was incorrect. Despite the party name "National Socialism"

FirstMateJack

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Re: Behind the Counter: $5.15 an Hour
« Reply #51 on: April 21, 2006, 04:31:41 PM »
haha, ;D

Hitler was  parts of both. he kind of melded the two.. He was more socialist than Fascist.. but, he still had both....


...I guess we could define it as 'Hitlerism'.
It, like fascism, sounds bad enough to avoid for future use. No one would really want to be known as a Hitlerist.

« Last Edit: April 21, 2006, 04:33:23 PM by FirstMateJack »
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JP Dogberry

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Re: Behind the Counter: $5.15 an Hour
« Reply #52 on: April 21, 2006, 07:33:45 PM »
Isocracy is very similar to anarchism, if not identical. I have recently come to prefer the term because it lacks the negative connatations of anarchy. Yes, there are subtle differences, but on the whole a isocratic society would be very similar to an anarchistic one. I mean, in ana narchy you have no government, but a truly representative democracy could be considered isocracy, but face it, an anarchy will still have leadership roles, but they will be leading not through power but through the people having respect for the leaders good decisions.

Think of open source software development. Some people are going to take charge, but if they don't do it well, the people will just leave and go and work on it themselves.

The reason I use this symbol is because the anarchy sign, already cool looking, is merged with a power on sign. The whole thought of digital anarchy or anarchy through tech appeals to me.

Should I mention now that Australias taxes aren't that much higher than the US, yet we offer government supported healthcare to anyone who chooses not to or can't afford private healthcare? Apart from some isolated incidents that were very bad, it is good - the main difference is smaller rooms in hospitals, less luxary, you can't choose your own doctor but get assigned one etc. You'll still get the treatment you need. Plus, no 40% increases in tax that I've noticed.
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FirstMateJack

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Re: Behind the Counter: $5.15 an Hour
« Reply #53 on: April 22, 2006, 03:35:44 PM »
This is also one of the luxuries of being a world power and not a super power however.

The major world rule, governing countries, is that there is always only one super power at any given time, no matter what.

If rule one is broken, you have a war (hot or cold, you have war).

As such, we are required to spend more money on military than other things. Our taxes would suffer a MAJOR increase, due to the fact that we have now, and have to keep a military that can challenge multiple fronts at once, police the world and ensure that the world economy stays afloat. (Imagine a U.N. without the U.S.)

Our money is only worth anything because the government says so. If our government ever fell or collapsed, American money would be worthless, since you can't just exchange it for gold or some other precious metal. Thus, American money has the ability to increase relative to any supply or service, versus stuck on the amount and worth of gold in the world.

And you can't say that well, just get rid of your military. guys like Hitler make sure that argument is worthless.

Point being, America Must keep it's defense equal to it's wealth, and cannot afford to focus on everything with 100% efficiency. That is just to much to ask of a nation.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2006, 03:36:31 PM by FirstMateJack »
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JP Dogberry

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Re: Behind the Counter: $5.15 an Hour
« Reply #54 on: April 23, 2006, 09:11:53 AM »
Yes, because killing people (Millitary) is much more important than saving people (Health).
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Re: Behind the Counter: $5.15 an Hour
« Reply #55 on: April 23, 2006, 05:49:53 PM »
You are meaning to be sarcastic. But, in fact, I agree with that statement. Without the U.S. military, for example, it is quite likely that the wars in the Middle East would have reached a boiling point a long time ago, when one fundamentalist group or another got a hold of some enriched uranium or plutonium, or some other equally volatile substance, and that would be that. Or the same thing might happen in Korea. Or Africa, or any of the other countless danger zones that the U.S. Military polices. Beside that, what happens when we get rid of our military in favor of free health care? We get invaded, and the invaders eliminate our current political system, including free health care.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2006, 05:50:45 PM by Archon »
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FirstMateJack

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Re: Behind the Counter: $5.15 an Hour
« Reply #56 on: April 24, 2006, 12:56:25 PM »
I agree with Archon. Without a strong military, we'd all be wearing swastikas, or living our lives (if you we were 'lucky' enough to be so) as slaves to the master race.

And again, if nothing was keeping the Palestinian armies in check, the nation of Israel would be gone long ago. You may not think it is a big deal, but that is a lot of dead people. So, it is a question of life and death, and America did choose life.

Don't forget about your history with the battle of the Coral Sea, Papua, Buna and Gona. Without either one of our militaries, you'd be an Imperial Japanese protectorate and another Axis powers supply chain post 1943.

I dont' think anyone is saying that 100% healthcare isn't noble. What we are saying is that it's not practical, it's a feel good answer that will crumble sooner than most.
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