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Messages - EUOL

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Wow, I only noticed Hoid in Final Empire and Hero of Ages, but I can see him being in Elantris as well.  My thoughts is it's just a sort of joke, like in Pheobe Gilman's childrens books she always includes items or characters from other books in her illustrations.

This Shards thing is so cool, I'd totally love to see Raoden and Kelsier fight, even though that's impossible.  In Elantris I'd say there are two shards, the lake and the dor.  The Dor is the power life, and the lake is the power of rest.  Similar but not the same as ruin and Preservation.  The way the Dor can be harnessed in a variety of ways makes me even more certain that it is a shard. 
I think Kelsier would beat Raoden though.  Raoden could do pretty much anything, like automatically kill Kelsier with an aon, but they are too slow, Kell would have him down before he finished drawing.

I think most of my Questions have been answered, thanks Brandon!
1) One Question is this.  If Gold is used to make Malatium, couldn't malatium also be gold's compliment?
2)I also wondered if you could explain that circle in the cave some more, I didn't quite get it.
I was sure Vin was the hero right up until the end, even though originally before I read the book, I was sure it would be Elend or Sazed.  But then the epilogue author started naming people off, so I knew it wasn't them.  But it only mentions Vin as 'she,' when talking about how she got her spike.  I was sure one of the epigraphs was going to be: "And that girl is me."
The Sazed thing totally made sense in hindsight, I can't believe I didn't figure it out.  And we were right about the "on the arms," bit being the part Brandon was referring to, good find Vintage!
I'm a little sad that the lake doesn't come into it more.  But the Mist spirit and the Deepness were BOTH Preservation.  That was cool.
3) So here's my last question.  If there ARE people on the other side of the world, did Vin kill them all by placing the sun on their side, or do they have they're own Ruin/Preservation battle going on over there as well?  Do they also have allomancy feruchemy and hemalurgy?

So those three numbered points are my questions, great great book, it was simply amazing!

1.  The Allomantic table poster will have more info on this.
2.  I think I did a post on the circle.  The short of it is, that is drawing too much attention.  Just because Vin didn't quite understand it doesn't mean it's important.  (Though, of course, there are other things she doesn't understand that ARE important.)  Also, the lake might be involved more at a later date.  See the other posts.
3.  No, they're not dead.  Yes, Rashek was aware of them.  In fact, he placed them there as a reserve.  I knew he wanted a 'control' group of people in case his changes to genetics ended with the race being in serious trouble.  All I'll say is that he found a way other than changing them genetically to help them survive in the world he created.  And since they were created by Ruin and Preservation, they have the seeds of the Three Metallic Arts in them--though without anyone among them having burned Larasium, Allomancers would have been very rare in their population and full Mistborn unheard of. 

Readers have met four shards other than Ruin and Preservation.
Have we met these four by name, or just by influence? I can't think of a name that would go with the one that the Elantris lake is a manifestation of.

Hoid could be one? I know nothing his purpose other than that he shows up in lots of different books, sometimes begging and sometimes telling stories. Since most of these series happen on different planets (though two of them may happen on the same planet as each other), I'm assuming he has mad planet-hopping skills.


Thank you for giving those extra Hoid references, Ookla. I didn't remember those Elantris or MB1 references, though I distinctly remember him in Warbreaker because he was on there for a bit more than a page :P Hoid definitely made it in the 6.1 Warbreaker PDF (in case you haven't read anything past 4.2. 6.1 was my first Warbreaker read-through).

I thought Nightblood was explained sufficiently for my tastes in Warbreaker, so I doubt that it is a Shard, but I've been plenty wrong before. Also, I don't know if Hoid could even be a Shard. Certainly he has mean planet-hopping skills, but I don't know what purpose a celestial storyteller would have in this universe. He doesn't really have the same kind of power as Ruin or Preservation did, so normally I would rule him out right off the bat. But it is possible that these Shards come in many shapes, not just in the near-deific quantity Ruin or Preservation had. I think it's a bit of a stretch to say Hoid is a Shard... but, then again, I don't have any ideas for what those four other Shards are.

Maybe Hoid is just a traveler trying to find remnants of Adonalsium and stories about them. He doesn't need to be a shard, I suppose.

This is slightly a tangent, but here is a relevant chunk from the Warbreaker Annotations.  As this won't be posted for months, I'll put it here as a sneak preview. 

Chapter Thirty-Two
"This whole scene came about because I wanted an interesting way to delve into the history.  Siri needed to hear it, and I felt that many readers would want to know it.  However, that threatened to put me into the realm of the dreaded info dump.

And so I brought in the big guns.  This cameo is so obvious (or, at least, someday it will be) that I almost didn’t use the name Hoid for the character, as I felt it would be too obvious.  The first draft had him using one of his other favorite pseudonyms.  However, in the end, I decided that too many people would be confused (or, at least, even more confused) if I didn’t use the same name.  So here it is.  And if you have no idea what I’m talking about. . .well, let’s just say that there’s a lot more to this random appearance than you might think."

Will elements of your untitled Aether project be worked into the Dragonsteel series?

The Silence Divine (Working title.  Stand alone Epic Fantasy. Unwritten.)
Steelheart (YA Science Fiction. Unwritten)
I Hate Dragons (Middle Grade fantasy.  Maybe an Alcatraz follow up.  Unwritten.)
Zek Harbringer, Destroyer of Worlds (Middle Grade Sf.  Maybe an Alcatraz follow up.  Unwritten.)
These titles are news to me. You described two potential YA or middle-grade books to me and Karen when you came out to Book Expo, plus Dark One, but now I can't remember the plots except they were cool (and that one of them involved superheroes). Are they among this list? Also, is that really Harbringer or is it supposed to be Harbinger?

Bah!  That's what I get for typing so quickly.  Yes, Harbinger.  It should be "Zeek" too.  Short for Ezekiel. 

Steelheart would be the superhero one, though that's a working title, since I'm not sure if it's trademarked or not.  Haven't had much time for thinking about any of these books lately.

Ok, I am new write and reading forums, so I'm a little slow on it, so please be kind.....
1.) What if RAFO?
2.) Who is HOID? I have read Elantris and all 3 Mistborns but don't remember the name, am I missing something?
3.) Dragonsteel, is that by Brandon or L. Yep, I am soooo confused.
4.) These Shards everyone is talking about...what are they?

I would be glad for someone to eliminate my ignorance on these matters....

As far as Kel's grabbing the power to Pres to hold for Vin, was it him that whispered to Spook, when Spook was unconscious, to get his message to Vin?

No problem!  Welcome.  Don't worry.  Someone probably answered this already, but I've only skimmed the later pages of the thread, as I'm trying to make my way through the questions.

1)  "Read and Find Out."  It was one of Robert Jordan's favorite phrases, and I have inherited it.  (Symbolically, actually, through his bookmark, which was given to me by his wife.  It's a little string one with weights on the end which spell out RAFO.)  When I say it, I don't mean it rudely at all--it is intended to mean "I'd rather not say, as this will spoil future books."  It doesn't indicate how I'll answer the question, or even if I will answer it.  It simply means that if I were to do so now (even to say "I'm not going to include this") I feel it would spoil the enjoyment of future books.

2)  Hoid is a mystery which I cannot speak on other than what has been written in the text of the novels.  However, I'm sure that others have explained it by now.

3)  I just did a post on my website explaining this.

4)  RAFO. ;)

1) How did Inquisitors find Atium mistings?
2) Before, Inquisitors had supernatural healing.  How did they get the Feruchemists for the spike?  Were the keepers not so hidden after all?

3) And this is more towards the whole physics stuff, but is Feruchemy really balanced?  If it gives diminishing returns, wouldn't this end up as a net loss of power?
4) How much control do allomancers have over pushing and pulling metals?  

1)  They spike the drinks at one of the nobility's balls with trace amounts of Atium, then cause a bit disturbance.  (Often, the Inquisitors themselves arriving will do it) and burn bronze and watch for brief pulses.  The body will burn metals instinctively if it can, which has been shown quite often in the series.  This is also how they get a lot of their secret information about who is a Misting and who isn't.  It's not a perfect method, since you have to watch for Copperclouds messing things up, but it is effective once in a while.  

Any time an obligator who is not a Misting joins the Ministry, he is unknowingly given a larger chunk of atium and then forced into a series of rituals that will drain him physically and get the body to react and burn the metal.  This was how Yomen was discovered.

2)  The keepers have been hunted for years.  Much like skaa Allomancers, they were often captured and taken by the Inquisitors.  It didn't happen nearly as often, of course.  Two things to remember, however: Not all Inquisitors had the same spikes, and spikes CAN be reused with much less effectiveness.  The longer they are outside of a body, the more their power degrades.

3)  It doesn't diminish.  Or, well, it does--but only if you compound it.  You get 1 for 1 back, but compounding the power requires an expenditure of the power itself.  For instance, if you are weak for one hour, you can gain the lost strength for one hour.  But that's not really that much strength.  After all, you probably weren't as weak as zero people during that time.  So if you want to be as strong as two men, you couldn't do it for a full hour.  You'd have to spend some energy to compound, then spend the compounded energy itself.  

In more mathematical terms, let's say you spend one hour at 50% strength.  You could then spend one hour at 150% strength, or perhaps 25 min at 200% strength, or maybe 10min at 250% strength.  Each increment is harder, and therefore 'strains' you more and burns your energy more quickly.  And since most Feruchemists don't store at 50% strength, but instead at something like 80% strength (it feels like much more when they do it, but you can't really push the body to that much forced weakness without risking death) you can burn through a few day's strength in a very short time if you aren't careful.  

4)  Depends on the Allomancer.  Zane and Kelsier were both unusually skilled in this area, and represent the higher end of what is possible.  

So are all these epic novels in the same universe? Elantris, Mistborn, Dragonsteel, all that?

I'm afraid that question is best left to the rest of you, for now, to discuss.

I have a rather simple question.  What was Spook's real name?  He gives a easternese slang term that becomes his name, then he goes by his Kel given nick.  So, what was his birth name?  (Yes, I wonder about random things like that.)

Jedal.  After his father.

Which is the reason why Spook didn't like using it.

Readers have met four shards other than Ruin and Preservation.
Have we met these four by name, or just by influence? I can't think of a name that would go with the one that the Elantris lake is a manifestation of.

Hoid could be one? I know nothing his purpose other than that he shows up in lots of different books, sometimes begging and sometimes telling stories. Since most of these series happen on different planets (though two of them may happen on the same planet as each other), I'm assuming he has mad planet-hopping skills.


Ookla, I'm going to be tight lipped on this, as I don't want to give things away for future books.  But I'll tell you this:

You've interacted with two directly.
One is a tough call.  You've never met the Shard itself, but you've seen its power.  
The other one you have not met directly, but have seen its influence.

Another question, Brandon. Would the Three Metallic Arts operate in other worlds, or are they direct results of Ruin and Preservation and thus only operate in Scadriel?

Okay, back to answering spoilers.  (Or, in the case of this post, half-answering them.)

To use Feruchemy or Allomancy in almost every case, one must have the right spiritual and genetic codes, imprinted upon people during the creation of Scadrial by Ati and Leras.  To use Hemalurgy, one must first have someone with these right spiritual and genetic codse, then take the power from them.  Other people on other worlds are not going to simply discover the Three Metallic Arts by accident.

Thanks for posting that.  Note that I can never quite remember which was first, Aether or Mistborn Prime.  I always feel that Aether should be first, since it wasn't as bad as the two primes, but thinking back I think that the essay is more accurate and I wrote it between them. 

This would be the new list:

1) White Sand Prime  (My first Fantasy Novel)
2) Star's End (Short, alien-relations sf novel.)
3) Lord Mastrell (Sequel to White Sand Prime)
4) Knight Life (Fantasy comedy.)
5) The Sixth Incarnation of Pandora (Far future sf involving immortal warriors)
6) Elantris (First Published)
7) Dragonsteel (My most standard epic, other than the not-very-good Final Empire prime.)
8 ) White Sand (Complete rewrite of the first attempt, turned out much better.)
9) Mythwalker (Unfinished at about 600 pages. Another more standard epic fantasy.)
10) Aether of Night (Stand-Alone fantasy. A little like Elantris.)
11) Mistborn Prime (Shorter fantasy, didn't turn out so well.)
12) Final Empire Prime (Shorter fantasy, didn't turn out so well.)
13) The Way of Kings Prime (Fantasy War epic.)
14) Mistborn: The Final Empire (Came out 2006)
15) Mistborn: The Well of Ascension (Came out 2007)
16) Alcatraz Verus the Evil Librarians. (Came out 2007)
17) Mistborn: Hero of Ages (Came out 2008)
18) Alcatraz Versus the Scrivner's Bones (Came out 2008)
19) Warbreaker (Comes out June 2009)
20) Alcatraz Versus the Knights of Crystallia (November 2009ish)
21) A Memory of Light (November 2009ish.  Working on it now. Might be split into two.)
22) The Way of Kings Book One (2010ish. Not started yet.)
23) Alcatraz Four (2010.  Not started yet)

I plan for The Way of Kings to be ten books, and will release periodic stand alone novels in other worlds while working on it.  I'd say one every other year, if I can manage it.  They'll probably come from the list below.  Alcatraz is five books long, so there will be one of those in 2011 as well. 

Other Projects
Scribbler (Completed YA steampunk.  Really needs a revision....)
Dark One (Unfinished. YA  fantasy)
Untitled Aether Project (Two chapters only.  Never went anywhere with this.)
The Liar of Partinel (Finished stand alone in the Dragonsteel world.  Uncertain when I'll release it.  Really needs a LOT of edits)
Nightblood (Warbreaker sequel.  Title may change. Unwritten.)
The Silence Divine (Working title.  Stand alone Epic Fantasy. Unwritten.)
Steelheart (YA Science Fiction. Unwritten)
I Hate Dragons (Middle Grade fantasy.  Maybe an Alcatraz follow up.  Unwritten.)
Zeek Harbinger, Destroyer of Worlds (Middle Grade Sf.  Maybe an Alcatraz follow up.  Unwritten.)
There's also probably a White Sand rewrite, a Dragonsteel Rewrite, and some Elantris sequels somewhere in the future. 


This essay I just posted:

Started as a blog post for this thread, talking about the old books I wrote to give context to my previous post.  It outgrew the length of a proper forum post, so I put it on the site instead.  But this might help you understand some of my history as a writer, not to mention explain the origin of all these old books Ookla that references all the time.

Brandon, I believe in one of Sazed's epigraphs, he actually called it "Adonasium" rather than what you are referring to here, which is "Adonalsium". I'm thinking that's just a typo, right?

I don't suppose you could tell us which book series of yours will tell us more about Adonalsium, would you? You know, just so us theorizers on the forum know when to properly theorize about these things...

And people were asking what we'd have to do in this forum when there weren't any other wild theories to discuss. Now you tell us we've barely scratched the surface.

I knew you had Hoid popping up everywhere, but only realized that after reading Warbreaker and the first few Liar of Partinel chapters. I had no idea you had so many other connections between these series. Now I'm guessing that ALL your adult fantasy novels exist in the same universe (though...I'm not sure about Way of Kings...I need to check it later...). (I'm guessing Alcatraz and Scribbler are not connected.)

You can count on me to make an overly complex theory of everything that has little basis in reality. I'm good at that.

Another question, Brandon. Would the Three Metallic Arts operate in other worlds, or are they direct results of Ruin and Preservation and thus only operate in Scadriel?
Well, I guess this means that the proofreaders did not add the "L" when I marked the error on the manuscript. (sigh). Yes, the correct spelling is adonalsium. I will try to get this fixed for the paperback, but I've been trying to get that blasted steel/iron error in the back of book one fixed for two years now. . .

If it helps, Sazed would probably under-pronounce the "L" as that letter, like in Tindwyl's name, is said very softly in terris.

As for your other question, you will have to wait and see. Now, you could search my old books for clues, but I would caution against this. While there are hints in these, they are not yet cannon. Just as I changed how things were presented in the mistborn books during editing, I would have fixed a lot in these books during revision. Beyond that, reading them would give big spoilers for books yet to be released. White sand, dragonsteel, and way of kings in particular are going to be published some day for almost certain. (though in very different forms). Aether of night should be safe, as should final empire prime and mistborn prime, though of those three, only aether is worth reading, and then only barely. (it is still pretty bad).

I will post more later. They are calling my flight. (I'm at LAX)

How many moons circle Scadrial, ie. when the planet was moved were the moons moved as well?

Was there anything on the other side of the planet or did the entire population live on one side?

Pushing/Pulling use magnetics? Would a compass work on Scadrial?

Did Gemmel survive into the series or did he perish before MB1?

Would Hemalurgy work on animals?

1.  Scadrial has no moons.  I think I let slip the phrase "he's mooning over her" somewhere in the third book, but that is just a translation quirk to English.  These people have no concept of a moon.  There is a very bright star patch, however, covering much of the sky--much brighter than on Earth.

2. There is life on the other pole.  I will RAFO any other questions about it, though.  

3.  A compass would work, but remember that the Final Empire is set at the north pole of Scadrial, but not necessarily at the magnetic north pole.  These things are complicated, but just assume that it works the same way it would here on Earth.

4.  This will be answered in the short story in the Mistborn RPG, if all goes as planned.

5.  Yes, it would.  

And I want to note that I'm flying to LA tonight after my signing for an appearance at a trade show, so this weekend probably won't see any more answers here.  I'll try to do a few on Monday before I leave for Vegas.  

This is fun.

The note to Spook states that Sazed hasn't yet figured out how to put souls back into bodies.  Is he going to learn that skill eventually (I'm expecting a RAFO here, but I figured I'd ask anyway)?

Does Sazed get to see Tindwyl again now that he is a deity?

Did we already find out what metal is combined with Atium to make Malatium?

1.  RAFO.  (Sorry, but this is plot sensitive for a future series.)
2.  Sazed has yet to learn how to touch the distant other side, where all souls go.  He is able to see into the Spiritual and Cognitive Realms, and any spirits or souls who remain there, rather than passing on.  Generally, you have to be tied to the Physical Realm in specific ways to not pass on.  As for where Tindwyl is, I will have to leave this up to you to imagine for now.
3.  I might have said somewhere in the series.  I can't remember.  It's gold.

You've also seen one other manifestation like this....
Such as...this?
The "lake" was barely ten feet deep—more like a pool. Its water was a crystalline blue, and Raoden could see no inlets or outlets.
If that's what you're hinting at...I never thought of the connection before! I just kept thinking of Aether of Night, and never thought of this pool at all.

I'm also thinking that the Dor in Elantris is another Shard of Adonasium. Certainly in the Elantris world, where the Dor came from is rather ambiguous, which I expected it would be. Of course, if other Shards of Adonasium do exist, the Dor could have come from that source.

If that's the case, what's the counter-Dor Shard?

Here's my questions from the book:

1. Preservation can fuel Allomancy, (Minus Atium.) but can Ruin fuel Hemalurgy? (Or Atium?) And could Sazed fuel all three Metallic Arts?

2. Are Atium and the External Temporal Pulling metal really the same?

3. Are there any Allomantic metals we have not seen yet, besides Chromium and Nicrosil?

4. Does every metal have a Feruchemical and Hemalurgic property? If not, are there metals which have Feruchemical or Hemalurgic properties which do not have Allomantic ones?

5. When Vin is feeling out The Lord Ruler's final message plate, she finds a circle with a dot at the center. What does that mean?

I think that's all for now. I'm sure I'll have more soon though.

1.  Both gods could, if they wanted, fuel all of the metallic arts.  Preservation is stronger at fueling Allomancy, Ruin stronger at fueling Allomancy or Feruchemy when it has been given via a spike.  Both are balanced when it comes to Feruchemy.  But this rarely comes up in the books, as it required expending power in a way that the gods were hesitant to do.  

2.  You are on to something.

3.  RAFO.  (Sorry.)  Let's just say that when Sazed said there are two metals you haven't found, he MIGHT not have been referring to a metal and its alloy, but two base metals.  Who knows.  Gods can be frustratingly ambiguous in times like that.  

4.  Every metal has a Feruchemical, an Allomantic, and a Hemalurgic property.  The godly metals each also do something else.  There are several interesting Feruchemical powers yet to be discovered and revealed in the next series.  Feruchemy is less widely understood because there were so few practitioners in the modern era, and a lot of the time they were too afraid of capture to really study and use their powers.

5.  No big reveal here.  That was to mean the center of the empire, which allowed one to place the map (which was very abstract) in reference to the empire.  

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