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Messages - Melriken

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31
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Nature of Shardblades? (Spoilers)
« on: January 24, 2011, 07:34:41 PM »
I want to point out a few things before getting into theory.

Page 298 (Chapter 19) uses the Term "Honorblade" in reference to something of legend.  it is used by Dalinar so he isn't talking of Shardblades. I think it clear that the weapons of the Heralds are Honorblades (as it seems do others in this thread).

Page 997 (Chapter 75) uses the Term "Dawnshards" in reference to something that humanity does not currently have.

The Parshendi (whom Jasnah believes to be the Voidbringers) have a number of Shardblades and Shardplate that is indistinguishable from any of the other shardblades and shardplate that anyone in the 10 warcamps has ever seen.

Syl is repulsed by the Shardblade that Dalinar has had since he was a teenager, but we know that the Knights Radiant used Shardblades and were bound to Spren (who presumably were not repulsed).

We know that there are only a few dozen (100 or less) shard blades in the world now, yet we saw 300 Knights Radiant give up their blades in one event, and that there were several other groups of Knights Radiant of similar size (all told 2-4 thousand Shardblades should have existed).

When you put this all together I think it is clear that there are two types of Shardblades in addition to the Honorblades of the Heralds.

Type 1 would be the Dawnblades that the Knights Radiant used, and that The Almighty comments about humanity NOT having.

Type 2 I choose to call Voidblades, these are used by the Parshendi, and by Humans who have captured them from Parshendi.

Voidblades are evil, vile things that burn out the soul, and are created by Odium.  Spren see them for the evil weapons they are.  Dawnshards are different, they are created by The Almighty (Honor) and while they can cut non-living things exactly like Voidblades, and can 'kill' in a single strike like the Voidblades, I believe they don't burn out the eyes of their victims killing the soul, but instead release the soul to the afterlife and have a noticeably different effect on the eyes.

32
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Cosmere Discussion ***SPOILERS for ALL books***
« on: January 24, 2011, 04:09:04 AM »
Quote from: Amphictyon on October 08, 2010, 10:36:52 PM
Now in regards to Roshar, I might be remembering wrong, but I remember the number 17, in regards to the Desolations or the Voidbringers?  Is that right?  I do for sure remember different names regarding the desolations with Odium being the final Desolation.  If Odium is being considered one of these shards what of these other names mentioned?  I don't have my book with me to give examples as I'm writing from my phone, but I believe proof was in a few of the transcriptions before each chapter.
The Chapter Epitaphs from Chapter 2 are what you are thinking of, they are a letter we assume is from Hoid, and is being sent to either The Almighty (unlikely) or Cultivation (the other shard (god) on Roshar)

Quote from:
12 - Old Friend, I hope this missive finds you well. Though, as you are now essentially immortal, I would guess that wellness on your part is something of a given.
13 - I realize that you are probably still angry. That is pleasant to know. Much as your perpetual health, I have come to rely upon your dissatisfaction with me. It is one of the cosmere's great constants, I should think.
14 - let me first assure you that the element is quite safe. I have found a good home for it. I protect its safety like I protect my own skin, you might say.
15 - You do not agree with my quest. I understand that, so much as it is possible to understand someone with whom I disagree so completley.
16 - Seven and a half years ago
17 - Might I be quite frank? Before, you asked why I was so concerned. It is for the following reason:
18 - Ati was once a kind and generous man, and you saw what became of him. Rayse, on the other hand, was among the most loathsome, crafty, and dangerous individuals I have ever met.
19 - He holds the most frightening and terrible of all of the shards. Ponder on that for a time, you old reptile, and tell me if your insistence on nonintervention holds firm. Because I assure you, Rayse will not be similarly inhibited.
20 - Seven years ago
21 - One need only look at the aftermath of his brief visit to Sel to see proof of what I say.
22 - In case you have turned a blind eye to that disaster, know that Aona and Skai are both dead, and that which they held has been splintered. Presumably to prevent anyone from rising up to challenge Rayse.
23 - You have accused me of arrogance in my quest. You have accused me of perpetuating my grudge against Rayse and Bavadin. Both accusations are true.
24 - Neither point makes the things I have written to you here untrue.
25 - Seven years ago
26 - I am being chased. Your friends of the Seventeenth Shard, I suspect. I believe they're still lost, following a false trail I left for them. They'll be happier that way. I doubt they have any inkling of what to do with me should they actually catch me.
27 - If anything I have said makes a glimmer of sense to you, I trust that you'll call them off. Or maybe you could astound me and ask them to do something productive for once.
28 - For I have never been dedicated to a more important purpose, and the very pillars of the sky will shake with the results of our war here. I ask you again. Support me. Do not stand aside and let disaster consume more lives. I've never begged you for something before, old friend.
I do so now.

33
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Parshendi (WoK spoilers)
« on: January 24, 2011, 03:46:14 AM »
Quote from: Tortellini on January 23, 2011, 09:38:43 AM
Parshendi are not dozens of feet tall, and the armor is not hard as rock either, though. Remember that we still have no solid evidence that Jasnah is actually right. What is described in the quote from the Prelude above sounds like a thunderclast.

This discussion lead me to a new idea about the voidbringers: The other beings described to have rock-like skin, or shells, are the chulls! Chasmfiends, too, but chulls are also described as having rock-like shells, plus red claws and legs. This may be a little far out, but most of the prophecies could also fit chulls... Music when they kill does finger the Parshendi though.
The parshendi shardbearer that fought Dalinar was "a seven-foot-tall giant" (page 930 of the orignal hardback (chap 68)).  Like the Red and Black skin became Fire and Ash, the impressive stature became a Dozen Feet, then Dozens of feet, and the hard Carapace became rock.

Thunderclast are beasts of rock, they have no skin and would not be described as having skin as hard as rock, but rather beign described as having skin OF rock (or more likely as having a body made of rock). Also the "Skin as hard as rock" quote includes nothing about triangular heads.

Chasmfiends are not "Beasts of rock and flame" Even their blood isn't red, they are a much worse match for the Voidbringers then the Parshendi are, and they are not intelligent.  No animal foe, regardless of how strong, fast, or powerful, is as dangerous as an intelligent Foe.

34
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Parshendi (WoK spoilers)
« on: January 24, 2011, 03:25:15 AM »
Quote from: ArgentSun on January 23, 2011, 07:24:06 AM
I find Melriken's champion theory compelling, but there is something that bothers me in it. When the Almighty spoke in Dalinar's vision, he implied that Odium could be persuaded to choose a champion sometime in the future. Of course, you could argue that the visions were more of diary than a true visitation by a god's spirit, but if I recall correctly, Dalinar spoke with the Almighty directly at the end. So Honor must be in the correct time frame. Which could imply that Odium does not have a champion yet.
The Almighty is dead, he never talked to Dalinar, just left a note for him.

Also I don't think the champion was truly chosen, just that for that particular fight that particular Parshendi was acting as a champion (a temporary champion?).  The Almighty is speaking of getting Odium to pick a Champion for the war, I think this fight was a precursor to that.

35
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Parshendi (WoK spoilers)
« on: January 23, 2011, 07:17:21 AM »
Neat theory, but there is a problem.

Quote from: old aggie on January 14, 2011, 04:20:42 PM
- - The Almighty has caused them to evolve so that they have "armor" that prevents the hive-mind control that normal Parshmen fall victim to.

We have a nice little passage about half way through the Prologue (Page 28 of the first printing hardback, about halfway down the page).
Quote from: WoK Prologue
According to legend, the Shardblades were first carried by the Knights Radiant uncounted ages ago. Gifts of their god, granted to allow them to fight horrors of rock and flame, dozens of feet tall, foes whose eyes burned with hatred. The Voidbringers. When your foe had skin as hard as stone itself, steel was useless. Something supernal was required.
I underlined the part that argues against your theory.

At least I can only assume that when you say "Evolve so they have 'armor'" you are referring to the biological armor the Parshendi have, but ancent legend tells us that the Voidbringers (beings of rock and flame, black and red, the Parshendi) have skin as hard as rock.  IE even during the first Desolation the Parshendi (Voidbringers) had that armor.

It is a nice theory though.  But the Armor isn't something new, and isn't from the Almighty.

I want to bring up the Scene toward the end when Kaladin is trying to save Dalinvar and the Parshendi Shardbearer is fighting Dalinvar.  The other Parshendi aren't interfering in the fight, but I don't think it is out of a sense of Honor as Kaladin seems to believe (and would STRONGLY support your theory) I think it is a requirement from Odium.  The Almighty says you may be able to get him to pick a champion, he is bound by some rules.  The shardbearer was odium's champion (at that point) and the other Parshendi COULDN'T interfere because Odium wouldn't let them because HE was bound by a rule.

36
Brandon Sanderson / Re: WoK: Kaladin and Syl *Spoilers*
« on: January 22, 2011, 04:20:14 AM »
Quote from: andygal on January 20, 2011, 10:37:53 AM
Also, I think the Honorblades are the Herald's uber-Shardblades. 9 of which are probably still  stuck somewhere or other, and one of which was last seen lying next to it's unconscious owner. (he ain't dead, cause Brandon sez he gets an expanded role later and he can't if he's dead. )

(edited to fix highly-unfortunate typo)
He dies in the first chapter, is refered to as "having a tendency to choose seemingly hopeless fights and win them. He also had a tendency to die in the process." and shows up in the last chapter, only to die (we know he dies because his blade drops to the ground).  What gives you the idea that death does much more then slow the Heralds down?

More on-topic I think that there are two sources of blades.

1 - The Parshendi source (Odium) which is the source of Voidshards.
2 - The Knights Radiant source (Almighty) which is the source of Dawnshards.

From the second to last chapter we have the quotes:
Quote from: Chapter 75
(The Almighty speaking (Page 997 of the original hard back))
Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination. Speak again the ancient oaths and return to men the Shards they once bore.
Quote from: Chapter 75
(The Almighty speaking (Page 997 of the original hard back))You might be able to get him to choose a champion. He is bound by some rules. All of us are. A champion could work well for you, but it is not certain. And ... without the Dawnshards ... Well, I have done what I can. It is a terrible, terrible thing to leave you alone.

It is possible that the Swords of the Heralds are the Dawnshards, but I don't get that impression (though I checked and we don't get a name for the words of the Heralds, just a comment about them being "weapons of power beyond even Shardblades".

I think Syl would have no problem with a Dawnshard, it is only Voidshards that feel wrong to her.

I would also like to point out the existence of Shardbearers among the Parshendi, both Blade and Plate, and that when those Blades or Plate are captured that none of the Alethi can tell the difference between them and the Blades/Plate that they have.

We also know that during the previous Desolation there were thousands of Knights Radiant (10 orders of 200-300), each with a Blade and likely Plate, yet in modern times there are maybe 100 of each. I postulate that ALL the Dawnshards are missing, and the 100 or so Shardblades that are around 'today' are all Voidshards, captured from the Voidbringers during Desolations.

37
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Did the Lord Ruler ... ? (Spoilers)
« on: January 22, 2011, 03:46:41 AM »
Quote from: Inkthinker on January 22, 2011, 02:13:38 AM
Offhand, can anyone recall what Vin's earring looks like? Is it a ring or a stud? For whatever reason I always saw it as a ring, but I can't recall exactly... and a stud is, in essence, a tiny spike.
Not only is it a stud, but it is a stud that looks particularly like a tiny spike.

There are several times where a comment about how it has no backing, but the pin is bent down to hold it in the ear, and one reference at the end of the series where someone comments about it looking particularly like a spike.  I loaned out my books or I would find the quote for you.

38
Brandon Sanderson / Re: What are the words?
« on: January 22, 2011, 03:35:47 AM »
err, sorry, didn't mean to Necro that thread, forgot that I had found it with google not by scanning the first page.

39
Brandon Sanderson / Re: What are the words?
« on: January 22, 2011, 03:34:53 AM »
When I first read the book I was expecting it to be "I forgive you." and assumed we would find that the king's brother was holding a grudge against another high ranking member of the kingdom and the king knew that his kingdom would collapse if these two continued to fight.

This almost fits Sadeas, however the falling out between them didn't happen until the king's death, so I no longer think that.

My theory is that the words are an oath to the Almighty and will likely return the Dawnblades to humanity for use against the Voidbringers.  Something similar to the Christian idea of accepting Christ into one's heart and life.

40
Brandon Sanderson / Re: The missing Herald statue. (WoK) *Probably spoilers*
« on: January 22, 2011, 01:37:33 AM »
Quote from: happyman on January 21, 2011, 04:02:22 PM
Quote from: Melriken on January 21, 2011, 09:45:10 AM
I believe you, but can you point me to the source? (I am assuming a Brandon Sanderson interview or blog post)
Brandon has confirmed that there is a Duladel in WoK in an interview.  Most of the other things we know about these folks are based off of logical inferences from the text of the book itself.  The main connection is that those three people are (a) looking for Hoid, (b) look nothing like any of the "standard" races on Roshar (c) use a Duladel word from Elantris and (d) Hoid claims that the 17th shard is trying to find him, but he has mislead them.  These facts make it likely that the Purelake searchers are planethoppers from the 17th shard looking for Hoid.  We've had long discussions along these lines, and most people seem to agree with these conclusions.

Quote from: part 2 Chapter Headers
12 - Old Friend, I hope this missive finds you well. Though, as you are now essentially immortal, I would guess that wellness on your part is something of a given.
13 - I realize that you are probably still angry. That is pleasant to know. Much as your perpetual health, I have come to rely upon your dissatisfaction with me. It is one of the cosmere's great constants, I should think.
14 - let me first assure you that the element is quite safe. I have found a good home for it. I protect its safety like I protect my own skin, you might say.
15 - You do not agree with my quest. I understand that, so much as it is possible to understand someone with whom I disagree so completley.
16 - Seven and a half years ago
17 - Might I be quite frank? Before, you asked why I was so concerned. It is for the following reason:
18 - Ati was once a kind and generous man, and you saw what became of him. Rayse, on the other hand, was among the most loathsome, crafty, and dangerous individuals I have ever met.
19 - He holds the most frightening and terrible of all of the shards. Ponder on that for a time, you old reptile, and tell me if your insistence on nonintervention holds firm. Because I assure you, Rayse will not be similarly inhibited.
20 - Seven years ago
21 - One need only look at the aftermath of his brief visit to Sel to see proof of what I say.
22 - In case you have turned a blind eye to that disaster, know that Aona and Skai are both dead, and that which they held has been splintered. Presumably to prevent anyone from rising up to challenge Rayse.
23 - You have accused me of arrogance in my quest. You have accused me of perpetuating my grudge against Rayse and Bavadin. Both accusations are true.
24 - Neither point makes the things I have written to you here untrue.
25 - Seven years ago
26 - I am being chased. Your friends of the Seventeenth Shard, I suspect. I believe they're still lost, following a false trail I left for them. They'll be happier that way. I doubt they have any inkling of what to do with me should they actually catch me.
27 - If anything I have said makes a glimmer of sense to you, I trust that you'll call them off. Or maybe you could astound me and ask them to do something productive for once.
28 - For I have never been dedicated to a more important purpose, and the very pillars of the sky will shake with the results of our war here. I ask you again. Support me. Do not stand aside and let disaster consume more lives. I've never begged you for something before, old friend.
I do so now.

I find the assumption that the above Epigraphs are all part of a single letter written by Hoid to be a completely reasonable and highly likely theory (excepting the ones that give a time frame (X years ago)).

Taking that to be true and further presuming that Rayse holds Odium (hatred) the question becomes who is Hoid writing this letter to?
Chapter 18 tells us it isn't Ruin or Hatred (Ati or Rayse)
Chapter 22 tells us it isn't Aona or Skai (two Shardholders from Sel)
Chapter 23 tells us it isn't Bavadin
Chapter 27 tells us whoever it is has some control over the group known as the 17th shard (possibly Blunt, Grump, and Thinker)

My problem is that between Chapter 22, 26 and 27 I don't see how the 17th shard could be based on Sel (though I guess it could be pulling members from multiple worlds given that it is by definition a multi-world organization).

Cultivation seems the most likely addressee of the letter (it needs to be a shardholder (not to be confused with shardbearer) who is actively passive with respect to Odium, which implies one who calls Roshar home), though Honor (also known as "The Almighty") is also possible, though his sever case of death would seem to indicate someone else.

edit: used [/q] instead of [/quote] on accident

41
Brandon Sanderson / Re: WOK: Observations from a second read-through (*Spoilers*)
« on: January 21, 2011, 08:33:32 PM »
Quote from: Tortellini on January 20, 2011, 05:12:25 PM
- What shattered the shattered plains? It is described as if something heavy fell on the land there. Must have been quite the impact, but they are not a crater. I originally figured they were created by erosion, but that statement hints at something else...
I know I put out a theory (unfounded) above, but I have been re-reading and came up with a new theory.

Quote from: WoK - Prelude to The Stormlight Archive
(about halfway down page 15 of the original hardback)
Less frequently, he passed cracked, oddly shaped hollows where thunderclasts had ripped themselves free of the stone to join the fray.
It is possible that the Shattered plains were created when thousands of Thunderclasts were animated from the stones.  (Picture voidbinders standing still in rings, animating thunderclasts from the stones all around them.  Where the Voidbinders stand you have a plateau, around them you have chasms.  You create an army (of thunderclasts) and at the same time a defensive matrix of dry moats)

Theories aside, Sanderson has said that the Shattered plains were lifted from Dragonsteel and put into WoK, so how they were shattered is likely to be either world neutral (meteor for example) or back filled (the area was needed, so it was created, then a story of how it was created was written into the book as an after thought).

42
Brandon Sanderson / Re: The missing Herald statue. (WoK) *Probably spoilers*
« on: January 21, 2011, 09:45:10 AM »
I believe you, but can you point me to the source? (I am assuming a Brandon Sanderson interview or blog post)

43
Brandon Sanderson / Re: WOK: Observations from a second read-through (*Spoilers*)
« on: January 21, 2011, 09:27:15 AM »
On what shattered the Shattered Plains, I had kinda assumed that the center of the plains contained a portal that the Parshendi arrive on Roshar through, and that it was the portal that shattered the plains, but I have come to realize that that was wild speculation on my part when I read the book a second time.

44
Brandon Sanderson / Re: The missing Herald statue. (WoK) *Probably spoilers*
« on: January 21, 2011, 09:20:16 AM »
I kinda figured that Blunt, Grump, and Thinker from I-1 were Heralds.

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