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Messages - Frog

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16
Reading Excuses / Re: Progress and Submission Reports
« on: April 24, 2010, 12:22:49 AM »
Hey all. I have some time to critique this coming week but so much back log that I don't think I will be trying to do all of them since I'm not sure who is still active and still looking for critiques for older stuff. So, let me know if there is one you still waiting for more feedback on if you have an updated version of a submit you want some fresh eyes on. Otherwise I'll just pick out a few to do and let the pieces fall where they may.... :P

17
Reading Excuses / Re: Email List + Submission Dates
« on: January 21, 2010, 06:57:35 AM »
I got it too...

*sigh*

You just had to give me a really long one this week, didn't you Cynic? Right when I was getting so close to catching up. Oh well. I'll get to it. ...Someday. :P

18
The problem is less about what you say and more about how you say it. I have no problem with acknowledging (or even poking fun at) the differences in males and females but when people (not just you or even necessarily including you in all points) warp it into some kind of competition, use only narrow stereotypes and have an obvious double standard in what is appropriate, it becomes more of a problem. I never called you a sexist though. I said it was interesting and that was all. Obviously that was enough to offend you though and I am sorry for that. Either way this isn't a very good use of DP's thread, so that is all I will say on the matter.

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Reading Excuses / Re: Jan 4th - The Sword of Worlds - CH 19 - Kail
« on: January 19, 2010, 09:07:54 PM »
I like that we are getting a bit more plot here, but I agree with what most people have said. The fighting drags on and you ruin a lot of the tension by over-explaining it. I would want this all to be cut down a bunch. And I wonder why the first fight even needed to happen. If he was perfectly willing to go with them to see their lord, why attack him at all?

I worry about how many super powered characters you have in this bit and that you are hinting at more. I mean, if everyone is super powered already it will lose some of it's specialness and makes me wonder how any 'normal' humans manage to survive here. And also, when you tell me something is super powered and then defeat it in the same chapter, it makes you less credible as a narrator. Next time you tell me something is that super powered, I may not believe you.

As far as the 'romance,' yeah, it was pretty cheesy. Especially since these two really haven't spent that long together (yes, I shall continue to nag that point every post :P). Everything just seemed rather over dramatic for where we are in the book.

Okay, line edits coming. I think that is it!  ... for now at least. :P

20
Okay, I think you may be overdoing the setting/magic system explanations. The concepts are fine, you just seem long winded is all since it isn't really that hard to follow.

Not a lot of conflict here. I mean, you explain his situation thoroughly but he seems fairly detached from it and he doesn't seem to have any direction. He is just wandering around without any sort of goal until the hot chick comes. You could argue this is because he is depressed about the coming day, but a purely depressed character is a hard sell right out front. Not that the character was bad, but there wasn't much to him. You explained his situation and had some setting, but I don't think you showed me enough to know who he is as a character. Needs more personality. And notice I said I wanted you to show me. Through scenes. If you start listing that he is 'clever and boastful and whatever else thief characters tend to be,' you will be cyber-ly smacked for it. :P

Yeah, it was pretty short and I am not sure were you are going with it, but since you don't seem to know either I don't feel so bad. No major deal breakers here at least.

Good Luck. :)

Okay I figured out why I like your writing so much.  It's MALE.  I don't know if our female critics here will agree with me on this, but the maleness of the piece in enjoyable.
I think you may be reading to much into this to stereotype the genders. Obviously the characters doing the ogling were male, but I don't know if I would reach so far as to say that the narrator/author had to be male or that it would be the only audience that such writing would appeal to. And I find it interesting that you would label 'male-ness' in writing a positive and 'female-ness' a fault (in another thread), but I suppose it all depends on the audience you are aiming towards and awareness is a good thing....

21
That sounds like a truly terrifying condition. You have my deepest condolences.  ;)

22
I just realized that apparently, whenever we get new blood around here we question your prose a lot. Sorry about that :P It's habitual.
Sorry Asmo, we aren't evil people, I promise. Well, maybe Frog....:P
You know, I do have a lot of these things backed up with all you guys and my other group's stuff. If you want me to skip yours, just say the word.  Or just keep with the attitude. Either works. Regardless, it shall have to wait until tomorrow at least since I am extremely tired. Night all. :P
Umm...I'm sorry? that was just supposed to be a joke. Evidently didn't come across as one, so I apologize.
Oh, sorry. I was joking too. Most people know not to take me seriously on here but I guess I haven't been around too much lately for you to know. Anyway, doing yours right now so I will see you in the other thread.

23
Okay, to get right to it, we had some problems here. I liked your flower theme and if you want to do a standard magic system I don't care in the least (I often prefer them) but I don't know if this would hook me as is because there is a lot of confusion in the narration, especially at the beginning...

I think you may be under the mistaken impression that if you blur up the scene and purposely leave out a few details that your audience will be hooked by suspense, waiting for you to slowly explain it as we go. But confusion is not the same thing as suspense and it is a huge turn off. Suspense comes from anticipation. You can give me a false lead or several leads, but you have to give me something solid to work with from the get go. I have to know the why's, the stakes and the characters or I have no reason to care what happens to them.

Here are some specifics that will probably come out in the document.

At the beginning you had so much description and vague declarations that it took entirely too long for me to get the basic premise. You had some action, but nothing to draw me to the characters/world. And then when you got to some exposition through the conversation of the elders, it seemed rather unlikely (they were both giving long speeches that seemed very out of place) so it just looked like an infodump and not a very informative one since you were referring to things we would have no way of knowing. The whole thing seemed to be running at a very leisurely pace which seemed inappropriate for the situation.

One thing about YA is that they tend to be more introspective (teens being very self-centered little buggers). Having a strong bond with the MC is huge and right now you are jumping POV too much for that to happen. I agree that Orchard's POV should be cut and if Abutilon is your man for the prologue, you are going to give me more of him as a character (I didn't understand why he should be so torn about going after Black Rose and why he seemed so detached/ casual about the situation) and have some more impact (like when he just kind of sat down and watched the two magical types bicker... yeah I wanted some actual confrontation there).

And come on. Abutilon is charging in to fight a magical type. How could he not know that the rocks were magicked?

Rosen was better, but I don't feel I have enough background to his character and motivations. Or anything about his servant girl. What she is, what she looks like, what their bound is and what exactly she was doing while he was fighting the random soldiers.

Yeah, you are going to have to be more explicit with your characters over all to get more of the motivation at least. The whole thing where you have a random scene of action without much development and then stop to partially explain it after the fact really doesn't work for me. Good descriptions though. I'll look forward to seeing where you take it from here. :)

I just realized that apparently, whenever we get new blood around here we question your prose a lot. Sorry about that :P It's habitual.
Sorry Asmo, we aren't evil people, I promise. Well, maybe Frog....:P
You know, I do have a lot of these things backed up with all you guys and my other group's stuff. If you want me to skip yours, just say the word.  Or just keep with the attitude. Either works. Regardless, it shall have to wait until tomorrow at least since I am extremely tired. Night all. :P

24
Reading Excuses / Re: January 11 - Silk - Cobwebs and Silhouettes
« on: January 19, 2010, 09:03:54 AM »
Well this bit was so short that I don't really have any line edits for you that I won't say here. But I do have some amazing and insightful comments for you though which are basically this: I don't get it. :-[

It just didn't seem like a story to me. You have the setting, but you never tell us *why* they are all gathering here in the first place or what the contracts are for so it doesn't make a lot of since. And then you have this screaming girl, but you never tell us why she is screaming either since it seems to be so unusual and you just leave it unresolved so I don't feel like anything happened here or that there is anything I can take away from it. I did like your pose though... but one thing I wondered was who your narrator was. It seemed all very familiar, like it should be in first person, so I kept thinking that an actual narrator would appear, but they never did. But then that is probably just a style thing.

Yeah sorry. You seem to like writing in the abstract (with this and another short piece of yours that I think I remember) and I am a very concrete thinker so this is probably just a case of you being smarter and more insightful than me, so take this with that in mind. The right audience would probably love it as is.

25
Reading Excuses / Re: Jan. 11th - Chaos - Rebirth, Chapter 7
« on: January 19, 2010, 08:36:25 AM »
And here we go again. Briefly glancing through the other comments I'll just tell you I didn't have any complaints about setting. Tav learning magic so quickly may be a concern, but I would have been willing to see where it went from here. Medora I did have more of a problem with. If this was the first we ever saw from her since the prologue (which I would strongly urge you to consider at this point since we seem to have more character/political structuring then plot) it wouldn't of mattered at all, but now I feel like I missed something big. And I will agree that it did seem to me that the new guy was accepted too easily being an impostor and all.

Back to Tav.  I am noticing a lot of redundancy in your writing in this part. A character will speak about one subject that could have been covered in a sentence for a paragraph or more, characters with think things than say what I just read them think, or you'll toss out one idea then just as quickly dismiss it. And there are a lot of rhetorical questions that bug me to no end. Cut it all down please.

About your story in general I feel like you have too much character thought, too many characters and too much magical/political stuff you are explaining without a lot action. That may be weird to hear from me, but it is true. I am not saying that you need any more violent action if the story doesn't call for it, just more people actually doing stuff that drive towards a central plot... And if you figure out how to do that, please let me know so I can learn how to do it too. ;)

Good luck!

26
Reading Excuses / Re: Dec. 28th - Chaos - Rebirth, Chapter 6
« on: January 19, 2010, 08:16:14 AM »
okay, line edits on their way for both chapters.

For this chapter, my main concern was that I don't see much point in Nerida right now. I mean, she seems fine as a character and maybe she could become interesting but right now it just seems like she's in as distraction from the main plot that bulks up the book needlessly especially at a point now where I am expecting to see pieces of the central plot coming together. There is a lot of character internal junk and political/setting dumping here that doesn't help matters. Especially since you drop titles and names right and left that I am having a harder time keeping straight (though it could be partially a writing group problem).

Tav's scene was fine too, but it did seem out of place in with all the unrelated Nerida stuff.

And I think that is all for this one. On to the next thread!

27
Okay, I'm way behind in critiquing so I am going to skip through the earlier comments for now. Forgive me if there are to many repeats here.

Line edits/comments on their way. Overall impression was that while I don't often enjoy sci-fi, the story seems to be coming well enough. Character seemed alright and I think you sufficiently explained the lack of emotion. I had some minor concerns about all the terms you were using w/o a lot of explanation by the end, but that is a pretty easy fix.

Biggest concern I had is that at this point I really don't see what set this particular mission should be different from the thousands this group has been on. I could see some of it getting bad with Jax dying and such, but without even a guess on the motive of the perps or something to make this mission standout, it all sounds like it should be routine for those in this line of work. And since I'm not sure what your building towards, so I can't really give you much in the way of expectations. You spent enough time with your character that I expecting most of the conflict to be internal or just very personal, but I am not sure what that might all imply. :/

Yeah, sorry if this isn't very helpful in planning your dramatic ending, but you seem to be off to a good start at least. Good luck.

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That doesn't mean I can't still be 'the man'... :P

Good luck. :)

29
Agg!!! I killed another one. Bad, Frog, bad. Let me say again I would never want anyone to feel too discouraged by anything I say. I am only one obnoxious individual with strange tastes and zero credentials. We all have to start somewhere. I can understand taking a submission break just to get some more things written down (I do it all the time) but if you ever stop writing all together I will come after you with a pitchfork. And let me assure you, a frog with a pitchfork is a very scary proposition. Probably more scary for the frog then the person in question, but the intent is there.  :P

30
Well I am going to tell you right out front. I like your concept A LOT more than I like your current execution/writing style. Reading this was a bit of a let down to me because I could see it being so much better. Here we go with your evil critique.

Most of this is going to come out in my comments on the actual document, but here are my main problems.
I liked your narrator, but be careful with all his side comments, dialect and places where he directly addresses the reader. Those kind of things distract from the story and bloat up your writing unnecessarily. Doing it a little is great and humorous, but I think right now you are over doing it to the point that it really bothered me.

Also, if you write in first person your character is your story and you really have to start there so you can avoid a lot of the confusion you have in the beginning. Show me Mat (who he is, where he is, what he is doing) first, at least briefly, and show me everything else.

That being said, I felt the prologue and much of the first chapter was confusing. I can understand that you want to hook with action and get to the meat of your story quickly, but you are doing it at the expense of your character, world and setting and it just doesn't work.  If I don't know all the stakes (all the 'whys'  and 'whats') I have no reason to care who is stabbing who. Having a flashback/flashforward to the action briefly for a hook is fine, but that is all secondary to the story itself. Personally, I feel that your concept is interesting enough that you could easily spend a chapter or two just character/world building through scenes (not long summations) and then all your action and plot would be that much better as it comes.

Rather than summing up his whole initiation and interactions with the upper angels, why not start there and show us some of this happening there by avoiding a lot of the time breaks and other points of confusion? I have about the same attention span as the average teenager (or rather the average teenager that reads for 'fun') and generally when you start to sum things up, I start skimming and I don't want to be skimming that much in the first few chapters. Either build the important information into scenes or drop it all together because I'm not reading it anyway. :P

Also, make sure that the character's thoughts/dialogue fit the situation or it just doesn't work.

Really, this felt to me like I was reading a sequel. Like in the last book you had Mat become an angel, get his powers and had everything firmly established through that summer and now you are quickly orientating us so we can get to the next story.

I agree that the third chapter was basically useless, especially since the guy really didn't seem to have anything all that important to say and that your dialogue/paragraphs run too long to be natural. I also agree that some of the 'core issues' Asmodemon mentioned were too quickly tossed aside and that a lot of these issues seemed like they should have come up earlier in the summer.

I think that is all the big stuff... it is all in my comments anyway and let me know if you have any questions. Like I said, I think your concept it great and something I would like to read if you can pull it off. Good luck. :)

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