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Messages - DrakeSparda

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And actually Ruin did have a body that fell out of the sky along with Vin.  It was only mentioned once.  I believe it mentioned something about a prominent nose.  And I believe it was a male figure, so in this instance, yes Ruin would be a 'He'.

If I remember correctly the body your are describing was the body of Preservation when it finally died after assisting Eland when he went off on his own while Vin was captured.....I don't have the book with me right now so I cannot look it up.


Actually, I do remember that is not true.  Bodies fell from the sky twice, (well technically three times).  When Elend spoke to the Mist Spirit, it was mentioned in an Epitaph by Sazed (I believe) that Leras used the last power is had as the Mist Spirit to talk to him.  And that if he had stayed around longer he would have seen a body fall from the sky.  That was Leras.

Later, after the battle between Vin and Ati, in 'god' forms, two bodies fell.  One Vin's, the other Ati's.  This is what Sazed found, and absorbed the powers from.  I do not have the book on me to site pages but I am sure this is what happened.

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Oh Oh

I Remembered what I wanted to ask/Say.


Somewhere in this thread Brandon said/inferred that for a time Kelsier held Preservation’s power after preservation died before it went to Vin.

I don’t remember seeing that in the book.  I know Brandon has done some misdirection in subtlely saying some things so I may have missed it.  Can someone point me to where it was presented to the reader?



Now my big speculation.  Follow me if you can and let me know if it makes any sense.  (Brandon??)

I have a theory about Ruin, Preservation, the body that fell out of the mist when “preservation” died, the prophesies and the WoT (yes I did say WoT) and how they all come together.  There are holes in my theory, but maybe it will make some sense.  And maybe someone can take my theory, fill in some holes and bring it together a little better since I have not read all of Brandon’s works.  I have only read Elantris and the Mistborn books.

I think that “Ruin” and “Preservation” are the names of positions and that this whole 1000 year cycle (0r however many year cycle) of the prophesies are along the lines of the Wheel of Time and the Dragon reborn fighting the Dark One.  Preservation being like the Dragon and Ruin being like the Dark One.

Laras may have been the original “Preservation” but that he (I'm chosing "He")  may have perished along the way during one of the cycles of the wheel of time in this universe.  Someone like Vin came along and took Laras’s place when he died.  And this would role along the cycle until the next person took over “Preservation”.  Ruin remaining as the same entity as the original Ati (like the Dark One has always been the same “person” while the Dragon keeps being reborn as another person).  At the end of each cycle “Ruin's" prison gets renewed.

The body that fell out of the mist could have been just the latest “Preservation” just like Vin became “Preservation”.  In past cycles the person that took over “Preservation” would have decided to continue the stalemate and then there would be another 1000 year (or 2000 year) cycle.  

But this time Ruin was able to go farther than he (Still chosing "HE") ever did in the past and broke the cycle by tricking Vin into releasing him from his prison.  This would be similar to the final battle in WoT.  Ruin destroying the World is like the Dark One breaking out of his prison and recreating the world/universe in his own image.  Vin was the final “preservation” (Dragon) that was able to FINALLY defeat “Ruin” (Dark One) by colliding with him and killing each other.
  
Balance…destruction and creation coming together.  


Vin’s body would have fallen out of the Mists somewher and Sazed was able to collect her body and place it with Eland.  Somewhere Ruin's body could have fallen out of the Mists too if his Body, in the form of the Atium, would not have been used up by the Atium Mistings.  Since he didn’t have a body, one didn’t fall out of the Mists.

We come to the final battle and Vin “Preservation” won.
 
The combined powers of “Ruin” and “Preservation” being released at the same time were able to be combined in Sazed.  They are “shards” of Adonalsium (broken pieces of a whole) and have been able to come back together.  

In the ultimate scheme of the great question and answer of the universe I think all of the shards that were created when Adonalsium broke apart need to come back together as one body to reform Adonalsium.
Down the line Sazed (Laras-Ati or Ati-Laras) will need to combine with all of the other Shards to re-create Adonalsium.

Maybe, just maybe, the “Big Bang” that created the universe, was caused by (or actually caused) Adonalsium coming apart into the shards.

This is just my 2 cents…….uhm 2 dollars?

Firstly, I do think there is a cycle of sorts, but to say its a WoT type thing, every 1000 years, I highly doubt that.  I do agree that Ati and Leras were once people like Vin.  That they each somehow tapped into the power of the Shards of Preservation and Ruin, and became part of that power.

One of my main problems with the whole WoT thing is that, besides that fact from seeing Brandon's interviews, that he would not do something as to reuse the idea of the Wheel, being that this Trilogy was supposed to be the opposite of many big epic fantasy stories.  So far Brandon's always tried to do something not seen before.

Besides that point, there is the problem of the prophecies themselves.  If what the trilogy depicts happens over and over, we would assume someone like Sazed would gather both powers each time.  However, how would he lose it, if he has both.  The only thing that can oppose either power, is the other power.  If they are acting as one, they cannot go against each other.   As in one person controlling them, not working together as they did when Ruin decided he wanted more.

And actually Ruin did have a body that fell out of the sky along with Vin.  It was only mentioned once.  I believe it mentioned something about a prominent nose.  And I believe it was a male figure, so in this instance, yes Ruin would be a 'He'.

Also, Vin as Preservation did not "win".  It was a draw.  They both were equal in power, so they both died, that being how Sazed could get both.  If you want to say Vin won because Ruin did not, well then yes.  To me, if Vin had won, she would have still been alive, instead of plummeting from the sky.

I do like your idea of the Shards eventually coming together.  My only problem with that is that it would leave all the respective books words (magic) powerless, and so far all his books magic systems revolve around these systems.  So, if this is to ever happen, it will not be for a long time.

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Brandon Sanderson / Re: Table of Allomantic Metals *Spoilers*
« on: December 17, 2008, 03:16:06 PM »
If you look on Brandon's LiveJournal, he has answered some of those questions and remarks. 

From that, apparently this table is made 300? maybe 400? (I don't remember the exact number) years from the trilogy from the perspective of scholars.  Therefore all that is mentioned is based on what they know.  So the explanations are limited to that.  So since (supposedly) Atium will be non-existent, they cannot expand on the alloys, and what they would do. 

And Coppercloud is the 'scholar' term for Smokers, but like Pewter Arm is the term for Thug.  I believe Brandon responded saying they would include that in parenthesis in the final version of the poster.

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Brandon Sanderson / Re: WOT Help
« on: December 12, 2008, 03:04:18 PM »
(Slight spoiler alert!)

It's the moral integrity of the Two Rivers characters that kept me reading all the way to the end.  My biggest complaint about RJ's world is that he never explains where this comes from and why they (Two Rivers folk) seem to have a foundational sense of right and wrong and almost no one else that they encounter really does, except the Tinkers and a few others.  In the real world, there is some kind of codified belief system behind most societies who honor women and children and place a high value on all life in general.  I don't believe it occurs in a vacuum.  


I don't think its a thing that really needs to be explained.  Two Rivers is a very remote farm community.  Traditionally, communities that has less exposure to the harshness of most societies, tend to have higher moral standards, just because of the fact they are not forced to push those standards for various reasons.  The people in the bigger cities and more populated areas have had to deal with bandits, thieves, and the dark one's agents for years.  This forces those people to push what they would normally do.  In example, if your life is constantly threatened by a human.  Even if you resist at first and refuse to get rid of the problem, after awhile most people will cave, and do the dirty deed.  This then snowballs as more and more morals are broken.  The Two Rivers folk never really had to deal with this.  They only had to worry about a few bandits and maybe some wolves.  Which the Town Guard could take care of.  They did not have to worry about someone stabbing them in the back.  This makes them more trusting, and usually people that trust more, have higher moral standards.  Notice, the Dark One (I was gonna say a diff name, but that would be a spoiler for JoeC) had to send (insert Dark Friend name here, since I don't remember when it was revealed who was the DF) to find the Ta'veren, which makes me think there weren't any DFs in the Two Rivers.  Perhaps showing not only the high moral standard but the remoteness as well.  Such a remote place would not be of any use for the DO.

Basically I am saying that their location, and interaction with the outside world forges their habits, and traits.

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Brandon Sanderson / Re: Warbreaker: Read now or wait?
« on: November 25, 2008, 09:00:02 PM »
Actually, the book is completely written.  It is just going through edits.  So you can read a full copy when you download it.  I personally do not mind reading on the computer since I read manga and such on the screen all the time and the years of video games my eyes have adjusted, but that could just be me. 

I'd recommend reading it, either now or then.  It is really up to your preference.

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Brandon Sanderson / Re: Brandon To Write Wheel of Time Book 12
« on: November 24, 2008, 04:36:31 PM »
My main thing against the covers is that is hard to tell who is who on them, and changing appearances.  Mostly since the characters on the covers don't really wear what they are depicted wearing in the covers.  Like EoTW, Lan is wearing armor, instead of his Warder cloak.  Also, on TGH, I think the dwarf looking thing is supposed to Loial, looks like he's 4 feet tall, when infact is huge.  I think Rand, Perrin and Mat change appearances on the covers more then they switch clothes in all the books combined.

However, I do like the covers.  The provide some insight into what happens in the book.  However, if you are not familiar with the book's story, you'd have no idea what that is, with maybe the exception of Dragon Reborn, with the Callandor scene.

Yeah, I think one of my favorites is the cover of Dragon Reborn--just because it portrays the characters so well.  I don't know what the Shadow Rising's cover is.  That's really the only one I just don't understand.


I believe tFoH is supposed to depict Rhuidean, and the trip through it.  ie, Rand seeing his visions and becomes The Chief of Chiefs, Egwene starting to become a Wise One, and Mat getting his signature Weapon, and Scar.

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Brandon Sanderson / Re: Brandon To Write Wheel of Time Book 12
« on: November 18, 2008, 06:13:40 PM »
My main thing against the covers is that is hard to tell who is who on them, and changing appearances.  Mostly since the characters on the covers don't really wear what they are depicted wearing in the covers.  Like EoTW, Lan is wearing armor, instead of his Warder cloak.  Also, on TGH, I think the dwarf looking thing is supposed to Loial, looks like he's 4 feet tall, when infact is huge.  I think Rand, Perrin and Mat change appearances on the covers more then they switch clothes in all the books combined.

However, I do like the covers.  The provide some insight into what happens in the book.  However, if you are not familiar with the book's story, you'd have no idea what that is, with maybe the exception of Dragon Reborn, with the Callandor scene.

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The metal that Elend ate - I wonder if it has an alloy?

The metal is called Larasium.

I believe it was stated that Larasium alloyed with any of the other metals would make a misting.  For example, if it was alloyed with pewter it would make a thug, and so on.  So it seems there could be 16 different alloys of it. 

I'm don't remember if this was stated by Brandon or just speculation.

But never the less, I highly doubt we'll see Larasium ever again so since Brandon has stated that there would be no Mistborn in a next trilogy.

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i do not quite remember where... but i remember repeatedly seeing that there are only like 5 or 6 shards...  If i remember correctly Brandon eluded to that, however I could be remembering that being the number we've had some interaction with on some level, however I thought that was only 4.

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Brandon Sanderson / Re: Categories for metals: thoughts (HoA spoilers)
« on: October 27, 2008, 03:36:29 PM »
One thing you may want to include into your analysis is the two new metals mentioned at the end of HoA, Nicrosil and Chromium, which as paired with Aluminum and Duralumin, which are explained what they can do in the main Spoiler/Q&A thread.

As far bronze and copper not being mental, or at least belonging in the mental group, they affect the minds ability to perceive allomantic resonance.  As in while burning bronze, a Seeker's or Mistborn's mind is able to perceive other mistings and what metal they may be burning, or can be seen as pushing a misting's defense against being sensed by a Seeker, as shown by who Vin 'pierces' copperclouds.  As with copper, it dampens others ability to perceive the resonances, as well as reduces the effect of emotional allomancy on those inside the copper cloud, or pulling up the defenses against being sensed or manipulated.  Basically like pulling up more mental barriers.

At least that is what I have been able to piece together from reading the books and browsing on the forums here.

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