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Messages - douglas

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Brandon Sanderson / Re: WOT Help
« on: December 05, 2008, 07:56:48 PM »
Hey watch what you're saying, man. Some of that could still be considered spoilers at the point in the books he's in.
Er, what in that post could possibly be a spoiler?  As far as I can tell I mentioned nothing about the plot other than extreme generalities and things in EotW, which he already finished.

Brandon Sanderson / Re: WOT Help
« on: December 05, 2008, 04:47:58 AM »
Also, I'm finding his inner battle with the dagger VERY interesting. Just another side story, but a good one.
Heh.  I'm not too sure "just" is the right word to use when talking about that one, but I should probably shut up now to avoid spoiling anything. ;)

It wasn't my intention to turn this thread into one that chronicles my progression through the WOT books, it's just turning out that way. LOL You guys are very helpful, but I also get a sense of joy that you guys like seeing someone else getting into a series that you love personally. Does it bring back memories?? I experienced the same thing with all the people I've gotten into Mistborn (counting six so far, two have completed the series.) I loved hearing about where they are in the story and what they think about it. Good stuff. So, if you guys feel the same, I'd be more than happy to give frequent updates. Plus, I would love to get into WOT discussions with you (so long as nothing gets spoiled!!! grr)
Thanks again guys.
Yeah, the Wheel of Time is one of my top two most favorite series (the other is Mistborn, and I'm not sure which I like better), and talking about it with someone as he goes through it himself for the first time is quite enjoyable.

It's amazing how many seemingly minor characters and plot lines turn out to come back later and become much more important, and discussion like this can help jog your memory when that happens and you can't quite remember where you've seen that character before.  Also, it can be great fun to try to figure out what all the numerous foreshadowings and (especially) prophecies and such mean and debate your theories.  Many of them have, of course, been resolved already in the course of the existing 11 books, but there are still plenty left.

For a good example of foreshadowing entirely in EotW, think back to Moiraine's explanation to Nynaeve about what usually happens with someone with the spark who is not taught, and consider certain things that happen to and near Rand.  For example, Moiraine trying to banish Bela's fatigue and discovering that someone had already done it, Rand feeling and acting strangely when meeting the Children of the Light, the oh-so-fortuitous lightning breaking open a way out when he needed to escape, Rand developing a short spontaneous fever with no apparent cause, etc.  Rand goes through exactly what Moiraine explained, and if you notice that connection it becomes quite obvious that Rand has the spark and is beginning to channel well before they actually reach the Eye of the World and fight Aginor.

When you finish book 10, go look up the Wheel of Time FAQ (just google it).  You could look earlier, but beware of spoilers.  MANY spoilers, discussed in great detail.  It has not been updated for Knife of Dreams and probably never will be, so reading through Crossroads of Twilight is enough to deal with any spoilers that aren't just (extraordinarily in depth) speculation.

BTW, does anyone have any idea why a dirty beggar is higher level than a non-dirty beggar?

Brandon Sanderson / Re: WOT Help
« on: December 04, 2008, 04:52:32 AM »
My criticisms are that I still don't fully understand the system of magic
None of the viewpoint characters understand more than the extreme basics of that, so that shouldn't come as a surprise.  Your understanding of the magic system will grow mainly when viewpoint characters start learning it themselves.  For some of them this does start to happen in TGH, so you don't have long to wait.

there is way too much traveling.
The amount of traveling doesn't go down much at all, I think, but I imagine your real complaint is about the length of narrative spent on simply getting from point A to point B.  That does go down quite a bit as I recall.

My compliments are that I LOVE the world RJ made. Very thorough and well described, I feel like it could be a real world. I like how the heroes seem to have all the cards stacked against them and are up against some very tough enemies (when Aginor came at the end and busted them all up, I was like "Holy crap!!")
If you keep with the series you're up for a lot more like that.  The heroes get a lot more skilled and powerful as the story progresses, but I don't think it's much of a spoiler to say that there are 13 Forsaken, Aginor was relatively weak for a Forsaken and even he only lost because Rand caught him off guard, and all 13 survived the 3 millennia of their imprisonment and are now being released.  And they aren't the only powerful enemies the protagonists have to face.

I'm enthralled with the whole Legend of the Dragon Reborn stuff. I like all of the characters now and I'm enjoying their progressions. They've all changed a lot since the beginning of the book (except Lan and Moraine of course) I thought learning of Lan's history was awesome because he wasn't just another bodyguard. I would like to know more about Moraine and her history though. Hopefully, they explain the magic system and the legends more thoroughly in the next book. The index at the back of EOtW was helpful.
  Thanks for your input guys!!
If you think they've changed a lot now, just wait until you've finished the rest of the series!  There is a huge amount of character development throughout the series.

I don't think many specifics of the Prophecies of the Dragon get revealed in TGH, but they are extremely important to the main plot and there will be plenty more about them in the rest of the books.

The magic system is explained in large part by showing certain characters learn it.  In EotW there is a single expert and two potential novices (plus Rand, but he has no clue about his ability to channel until near the end), but all of them are so occupied by the plot that they have almost no time to do any teaching or learning.  This changes drastically in TGH.

The best source for more information on Moiraine and Lan's backstory is the prequel New Spring.  I'd suggest holding off on that until you're a little further into the main series, though.

Oh, and Lan's "not just another bodyguard" status still has a fair bit more to be revealed.

Interestingly enough, though, if a Soother with a Hemalurgic Duralumin spike (or with a companion who's a Nicrosil misting) came across Marsh in the next trilogy, he WOULD be able to take him over. That's cool.
Sazed would be able to use Ruin's power to steal that control, though, and I think he'd do so pretty quickly.  He might adopt a mostly hands-off approach for managing the world, but I don't think he'd permit someone to dominate Marsh for long regardless.

Brandon Sanderson / Re: WOT Help
« on: November 08, 2008, 08:04:00 AM »
The beginning of EotW is deliberately very similar to the beginning of LotR, but it gets away from that reasonably quickly.

I think most of the criticism for the later books is due to large branching plot lines and slow pacing.  It gets to the point where a dozen or more things may be going on at once with very little tying any one plot line to any other for long periods of time.  At the same time, each individual plot line takes a long time to resolve.  The combination means you need either a good memory or good notes to keep track of everything and avoid getting lost and confused about the plot, along with patience to wait for major things to happen without getting frustrated.  Both problems have been exacerbated so far by the necessity of waiting years for each book to be written and published, but that problem, at least, won't last much longer.

If you can handle those two problems, however, the entire series is superb.

Oh, and attention to/memory for detail helps a lot.  Robert Jordan likes his foreshadowing, and there are quite a number of ways for it to come up explicitly in character - The Prophecies of the Dragon (aka the Karaethon Cycle), certain Aes Sedai who have the Foretelling ability, a few characters whose dreams can indicate the future, and one particular character who constantly sees visions around most important people she sees.  Most of them require significant interpretation, of course.

I'm fairly sure personality, memory, etc. stay with the mistwraith, not the spikes.  Any hemalurgically appropriate set of spikes will do to restore a mistwraith to Kandrahood, and the resulting Kandra will be the same one that the mistwraith had been, not the one the spikes came from.  That should answer your first four question, though I'll note for #2 that assimilating OreSeur would probably have made him actually less sympathetic to Vin - she'd been treating him rather badly.

For the fifth, we know dissolving a Kandra in acid will truly kill him.  There may be other ways, and it's not clear how much acid is required.  Hmm, now that I think about it, there may have been mention of a mistwraith inside the city shortly after the replacement, but my memory on that is rather unclear and I don't have WoA on hand to check.  If my memory is correct on that, then OreSeur may actually still be alive somewhere out there, but by the time anyone other than TenSoon found out it was impossible to determine which mistwraith would be the right one to restore.

The source of my information about zinc and brass is the table in the back of Final Empire.  That table does list zinc as rioting and brass as soothing, but it has zinc as the pushing metal and brass as pulling.

I think it's been confirmed here that atium and malatium violating the rule about which of each base/alloy pair is pushing and which is pulling is a hint that atium doesn't really belong in the list of allomantic metals.  However, zinc and brass also violate the rule.  For every known metal other than zinc, brass, atium, and malatium, the base metal is the pulling metal and the alloy is the pushing metal.  Zinc is a base metal and is the external mental pushing metal, however, and its alloy brass is the pulling metal of the pair.  Is this a mistake?

Okay, but if Terr could foresee everything that would happen. doesn't that mean he knew that the world would undergo a thousand years of struggle and nearly crumble and end just to return to the way it was when created? Did he really not like Ruin that much? Or is there a something bigger in play? How far did he see? Did he realize that the world would need the powers of them both combined and knew that Ruin wouldn't provide his half. What is going to happen that would make it necessary for their to be a single god?
Once mankind was created, Preservation was weaker than Ruin.  Ruin wanted to completely destroy the world eventually, and Preservation would, in normal circumstance, be unable to stop him.  Preservation's desperate plan and great sacrifice were done not out of hate for Ruin, but to save the world.  However close the world may have come to ending and however unlikely the final victory might have been, it was better than the absolute certainty that Ruin would destroy everything if Preservation did not enact his desperate plan.

2)  Marsh is alive.  I changed this from when I talked to Ookla. I realized some things about his use of Allomancy that would allow him to survive.  Actually, he is immortal.  He can pull off the same Allomancy/Feruchemy trick that the Lord Ruler did.  (And he knows it too, since he was there when Sazed explained how it was done in Book One.)  He's actually the only living person who actually knows this trick for certain. (Though there's a chance that Spook, Ham and Breeze heard about it from Vin and the others.)  So yes, if there were another series, Marsh would make an appearance.

I thought that trick required atium and involved burning the atium.  With all the atium gone and Sazed not making any more, it would therefore not be possible even for a full mistborn/feruchemist.  Am I wrong, is Sazed providing atium specifically for Marsh to allow a friend and valuable servant to survive, or what?

In a future book series, Mistborn will also have become things of legend.  The bloodlines will have become diluted to the point that there are no Mistborn, only Mistings--however, the latter are far more common.   In this environment, a Nicrosil Misting could be invaluable both as an enhancer to your own team or a weapon to use against unsuspecting other Misthings.

I take it either Spook did not have children or Sazed made him a reduced-strength Mistborn rather than giving him the full potency of the 9 originals and Elend?

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