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Messages - happyman

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796
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Warbreaker 2
« on: August 29, 2008, 03:36:30 AM »
I think it can best be said that Vasher is the exposition character.  Because of him, we get insight into the way the world works that none of the other characters would have access to.  In short, he's the closest Brandon can get to third-person omniscient in the current fantasy genre.  This stems from Brandon's desire to make magic an integral, comprehensible part of the world, a need which I find attractive and interesting.

In a nutshell, I feel that although the character development may have worked without Vasher's viewpoints, the world-building would have suffered some.

797
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Vin as HOA?
« on: August 11, 2008, 10:47:35 PM »
Good, folks.  Glad to see I'm not alone.

The quote doesn't sound like TLR.  TLR was Rashek; sometimes we seem to forget the fact that he also thought he was God.  From the end of Mistborn 1, we see that he actually believed it.  We also have seen no evidence that that wasn't his attitude during the early years; if anything else, his monologue at the end of MB1 would indicate that his attitude has stayed constant.  We can natter on about preservation and the necessity to preserve humanity, but TLR seems to have gone about it all the wrong way, no matter how you slice it.

Thus it just doesn't sound like Rashek.  Just one line, and it's already waaaaay to humble to be Rashek.

Here's a thought: How do we know that this isn't from a document written after the fact?  We've had two documents written before the entire mess started, but there is no logical reason why the "bumps" can't come from something that will be written after all the action has occurred.

798
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Vin as HOA?
« on: August 11, 2008, 07:38:17 PM »
Quote from: Reaves on August 11, 2008, 07:20:57 PM
Quote from: happyman on August 11, 2008, 07:17:02 PM
OK.  I've just seen the new HoA chapter.  I'm pretty sure from it that Vin isn't the Hero of Ages.
What makes you think that? I'm pretty sure most people think the bump is written by Rashek, if that is what u are referring to...

Now that you ask, I don't know, really.  It just doesn't sound like the way Vin would write.  It doesn't seem to match her personality.

Rashek is a distinct possibility.  It would fit with the previous bumps.  It's just that I don't think Rashek was the Hero of Ages; he became TLR after all.  I would, somehow, much rather have them written by the *real* Hero of Ages.

Rashek could tell us quite a bit, though.  So I'll keep an open mind.

799
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Electrum (Long.. sorry)
« on: August 11, 2008, 07:26:27 PM »
Quote from: Comatose on August 09, 2008, 07:26:48 PM
And the connection she makes to touching her gold image, which influences her plan to try and stab the Lord Ruler's malatium image.

Right.  Remember that EUOL tries to make his magic systems consistent.  If Atium shows everybody else's future (external) and Gold shows your possible past (internal), than Malatium should show everybody else's possible past.  Thus with two other people in the room, she should, logically, see two different alternate pasts, one per person.  There is no real reason, without further evidence, to go beyond this simple logic.

800
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Vin as HOA?
« on: August 11, 2008, 07:17:02 PM »
OK.  I've just seen the new HoA chapter.  I'm pretty sure from it that Vin isn't the Hero of Ages.

Dang good initial bump though.  It tells us only that the Hero of Ages is probably real, and not much else.

801
Brandon Sanderson / Re: HoA compiled. *SPOILER POTENTIAL*****
« on: August 08, 2008, 03:58:46 PM »
Quote from: miyabi on August 08, 2008, 04:24:14 AM
OK, you guys aren't understanding.  I'm NOT saying Vin created, by herself, the Mist Spirit.  I'm saying it is of the Well, but her being connected to the Well, the Well THEN USES her subconscious to create the Mist Spirit.

The term to use in cases like this is Occam's razor.

You admit that the Mist Spirit is at least partially independent of Vin (otherwise why would it act against her apparent will?).    You admit that it is either from the well itself or from Preservation, at least partly.  Why, then, without further evidence, do you assume some sort of subconscious connection to Vin?  In what way does it mirror Vin's behavior, Vin's attitude, or her existence?  The Spirit appeared well after Vin was born.  It has spent time around her, but given the fact that she was going to use the well to release Ruin (and the spirit probably knew that Ruin was trying to get free through her), we have plenty of justification for it's interest without assuming any further connection.  In short, what facts make this theory necessary that isn't already covered by one of the others?

802
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Mistborn 2: Will it become bareable after Part 2? (Spoilers)
« on: August 07, 2008, 06:34:56 PM »
Along these lines, I expect her to be even less confident in the next book than she was in the last.

They may have resolved the political issues around the city to some extent, but they have much bigger problems now.  If they have any brains at all, they realize that they knew much less about the world than they needed to.  At the end of WoA, Vin is starting to realize how thoroughly she was manipulated; no doubt she will figure it out even more if/when she hears Sazed's part of the story.

All of this leads into the fact that Vin may wonder just how much of her defeating TLR was really her own doing.  So, yeah.  I don't expect her to become less "whiny."  Which is just another name for the inadequacy most people feel, Vin more than most.  She may get over it, but probably by virtue of doing extraordinary things.

803
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Ruin and Preservation
« on: August 05, 2008, 11:34:34 PM »
Quote from: Czanos on August 04, 2008, 08:23:22 PM
Quote from: Amazon's Product Description of MB3
Having escaped death at the climax of The Well of Ascension only by becoming a Mistborn himself, Emperor Elend Venture hopes to find clues left behind by the Lord Ruler that will allow him to save the world. Vin is consumed with guilt at having been tricked into releasing the mystic force known as Ruin from the Well. Ruin wants to end the world, and its near omniscience and ability to warp reality make stopping it seem impossible. She can’t even discuss it with Elend lest Ruin learn their plans!
This quote is essentially from the book-flap.  I don't think that we can run too far with it, accuracy-wise.

Quote from: Czanos on August 04, 2008, 08:23:22 PM
Quote from: Mistborn: The Well of Ascension pg. 453
"You know why I thought you'd save me?" he tried to whisper to her, though he somehow knew that his lips weren't properly forming the words. [. . . ]

"Of course I didn't tell you to kill her," God said.

From these two quotes, I'm pretty sure Ruin can "hear," but not read minds. Hemalurgists are tricky . . . . Zane was speaking those words, but they were unintelligible. Either Ruin pieced together what Zane was trying to say because he's cool like that, or Ruin could read Zane's mind. Elend and Vin could have to keep silent for fear of Ruin overhearing their conversation, or because he could read Vin's mind. If Ruin can see into Hemalurgist's minds though, I would assume that he could only do so to a relative extent as to how much Hemalurgy the person possessed. So he knows basically everything about Inquisitors, knows at least enough about Zane to tell when he's near someone, and knows enough about Vin to make her and Elend not want to risk talking about their plans.

This is a good find; well done.  It certainly proves either hearing or mind-reading.  It doesn't seem to eliminate either, though; if Ruin can read words on a page by "touch," and then get them properly formatted to replace the old words, then he's got some serious processing-power mojo going on.

804
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Electrum (Long.. sorry)
« on: August 05, 2008, 05:28:10 PM »
Quote from: Czanos on August 03, 2008, 04:22:09 AM
If that's the case, then where's the shadow of the Inquisitor?

I'm pretty sure the shadow is of the Inquisitor. The exact passage is . . .

Quote from: Mistborn: The Final Empire page 593
Vin turned to the side. There was another unfamiliar man
beside her, a young nobleman. He was a merchant, from the
looks of his suit—and a very wealthy one at that.

From what we know, Inquisitors are recruited from the nobility, and particularly the upper nobility. On top of that, the malatium shadow is standing next to her and the Inquisitor, instead of right next to The Lord Ruler, with the other shadow. To seal the deal, when Vin burns malatium during her fight with The Lord Ruler, he only has one shadow, the one she saw standing next to him in this scene.

This assumption can also be supported from a narrative perspective.  Vin had to have enough clues to figure out what was going on so that she wouldn't have to do too much thinking at the climax.  Having two examples of what Malatium does would make it more likely that she would make the connection, not to mention strengthening the connection with Atium.

805
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Ruin and Preservation
« on: August 04, 2008, 07:53:58 PM »
Well, we don't know what Ruin can sense and influence and what he can't, beyond some basic guidelines like "He can't affect memories."

For instance, can he sense regular patterns of motion in air and decipher their meaning?  E.g. can he hear, even from a distance?  If so, then there is no need for him to read the memories out of Sazed's metalmind.  With this theory, if Vin says something, Ruin could know about it if he's paying attention.  This is nothing like reading minds and everything like eavesdropping.  He certainly has powers along these lines.  He can modify text on a page, after all, and the simplest way for him to do that would be for him to "read" (sense) the pages directly rather than fiddling with metalminds etc.

In addition, we don't know how he maintains control over the Inquisitors (or his more limited control over Zane).  We do see that he knows what is going on around Zane, so it's possible the Hemalurgy created a link into Zane's mind that actually was readable (or that he can read minds but not change them.)  However, he could also simply be "looking" at the area around Zane via his other "senses."  Similarly, he can control the inquisitors (but not quite completely) but we don't know if that is mind-reading or more like soothing.  For instance, he seems to make Marsh become more like himself, perverting Marsh's values into his own, but this does not necessarily indicate that he can see into Marsh's head, simply that he can "sooth"* away everything except what he wants Marsh to feel and "riot"* those emotions that he wants Marsh to feel; if the "soothing" and "rioting" are strong enough, then he effectively controls Marsh with or without mind reading.

*Quotation marks because I am not at all certain that the power being exerted is literally soothing or rioting.  It's an analogy.

806
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Reen's obsidian
« on: August 04, 2008, 02:05:04 AM »
Quote from: Comatose on August 03, 2008, 03:37:11 AM
Soory, I was away all week, so I'm backtracking a bit.
Wow you guys have been busy all the way, and Ookla, just so you know, I'm ignoring your posts from now on, they are just too much for me (although I did enjoy you muhahaha).  No hard feelings I hope.

Someone mentioned Reen being an allomancer, I don't think he can be, otherwise the inquisitors could have used him to expose Tevidan, the fact that he was an allomancer born of Tevidan's skaa mistress would have been enough to condemn him, that and his uncertainty.  But they continued after Vin, thus Reen has no allomancy.
I'm game for thinking he's the mist spirit though ;).  Or am I?  Maybe I'll just play BOTH SIDES of  this one.
Seriously, you guys crack me up, I've missed TWG.  And Sarah, your Princess Bride reference (it was Princess Bride wasn't it?  I'd feel very stupid if it wasn't.) was hysterical, I loved it.  Thank-you for making my day.

Back to the thread's topic (boy has this been a tangent) if it's not important, why does Reen carry it around??  He doesn't seem like the sentimental type, he's rather practical to the extreme, it's Vin who carries pebbles from every city she visits with her, so why would ever pragmatic Reen, carry a mere token with him.  I'm grasping a straws, of course, but I think I have a point.

You may well have a point.  Reen knowing something about Allomancy would be interesting.  It just seems unlikely that its a magical piece of obsidian when all other magic has focused on metals.

807
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Ruin and Preservation
« on: August 04, 2008, 02:03:13 AM »
Actually, not reading minds seems to be one of the things that the magic in this world can't do.  EUOL makes this point repeatedly with respect to the emotional allomantic powers.  In addition, Ruin didn't change memories, which would seem to be a good indicator that he can't read minds.

Question:  is this why memories remain unchanged?  Because Ruin has no ability to read minds and thus wouldn't know what to change?  Apparently metalminds are more susceptible.

808
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Ruin and Preservation
« on: August 01, 2008, 10:40:09 PM »
Quote from: miyabi on August 01, 2008, 05:03:42 PM
Quote from: happyman on August 01, 2008, 04:49:51 PM
I can't help but suspect that in some very deep sense, all of the magic systems are connected or have similar foundations.  The fact that

(1) two of the systems are known to use the exact same metals with the exact same alloys and
(2) there seems to be a connection between what Feruchemists can do with Pewter and Allomancers can do with Pewter and
(3)  the Allomantic time-based  metal Atium can be used to store age (a time-based human attribute)

all seem too much to be a coincidence.  Perhaps in some way the powers associated with a metal are intrinsic, but the ways of accessing them are different?

Anyway, I strongly suspect that the Hemalurgical system uses the exact same metals and alloys.  It would be a nice, clean way of interrelating the magic systems.

In addition, we know that somehow the mists are related to the magic systems.  It's no wonder they have something in common.
The only problem with this is that Brandon himself said that they are all different and NOT connected, which kinda throws a lot of this off kilter.


Do you have a direct quote of where he said that?  That seems like a rather overbroad interpretation of what I remember, especially given the three points I described above.

809
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Electrum (Long.. sorry)
« on: August 01, 2008, 04:52:03 PM »
Quote from: miyabi on August 01, 2008, 04:45:51 PM
Quote from: Time and Again on August 01, 2008, 04:43:05 PM
I'm supprised the theroy held water this long.

I just don't like the idea of Atium being such a different metal. All the other metals react pretty simular to each other. For atium to look about a second into the future and the others to look decades just doesn't make any sense.
It doesn't have to make sense. . . it's magic.

haha


The best magic systems are the ones that do make sense.  "Alternate physics" is often a good way of looking at them.  Frankly, they also make for tighter stories, although Sanderson's First Law considerations come into play here.

810
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Ruin and Preservation
« on: August 01, 2008, 04:49:51 PM »
I can't help but suspect that in some very deep sense, all of the magic systems are connected or have similar foundations.  The fact that

(1) two of the systems are known to use the exact same metals with the exact same alloys and
(2) there seems to be a connection between what Feruchemists can do with Pewter and Allomancers can do with Pewter and
(3)  the Allomantic time-based  metal Atium can be used to store age (a time-based human attribute)

all seem too much to be a coincidence.  Perhaps in some way the powers associated with a metal are intrinsic, but the ways of accessing them are different?

Anyway, I strongly suspect that the Hemalurgical system uses the exact same metals and alloys.  It would be a nice, clean way of interrelating the magic systems.

In addition, we know that somehow the mists are related to the magic systems.  It's no wonder they have something in common.

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