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Messages - Czanos

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61
Hmm... good question. I will answer your question with another question: aren't the metals supposed to be beneficial to the user? If so, then why would a metal make you weaker? I suppose, if you want the effects to match, cadmium could make anyone else in the bubble faster, but then how would that be benifical in travel, like pewter, since the allomancer cannot move as fast, and the other people would exit the bubble, or not be able to go as fast as possible. Wow, that was probably zetta confusing (been playing The World Ends With You xd ;D) .
Most of the metals do benefit the user, but for some mistings such as aluminum or duralumin there is no effect, either positive or negative, at all.

Aluminum and duralumin could possibly have a positive effect for Mistborn or even Mistings. When burned they effectively purge all metals from an allomancers body (or a specific metal in the case of duralumin). This might also be able to clean out a poisen from the allomancers body. Much like tin can enhance both a persons sense of smell as well as thier sense of vision. 

The major benefit to Aluminum and Duralumin I see is the Feruchemical advantages. If one were one of the Feruchemical/Allomantic "Mistings" being able to burn Aluminum or Duralumin would give you a great advantage. (Though I still mildly wonder if Aluminum would give a positive or negative Feruchemical charge. Logically it's positive, as the metals are still burned, but the effects are Pulled away, so . . . )

The only thing funner, in my opinion, is being a Nicrosil/Chromium misting, and being able to spontaneously burn away someone else's Feruchemical charges.

I had a thought about the two new allomantic metals on the poster, Cadmium and Cerrobend. Would using Cadmium, in essence, allow you to move faster than other people in a similar manner to a Feruchemist who is tapping their Speed? Likewise, would Cerrobend make you move slower than everyone else as time would pass more quickly for you? If I understood this right, it would suck to be a Cerrobend Misting in a battle (although it would be handy to use while waiting for AMoL to come out!)
No, i dont think so, a cerrobent misting would probably move the same speed, but everyone else in the bubble would move slower, enabling the misting to defeat his nearby enemies with ease. Cadmium, however, might allow you to move faster, along with other mistings/allies in the bubble, giving a boost to them as well as yourself. They could be countered by each other, if the bubbles "overlap", making everything in the overlapped space move normally.
And i would use cadmium while waiting for AMoL, i havent read the rest of the books.

to quote Johnny Depp, "Now you're not making any sense at all." Why would cerrobend only make the other people inside the bubble move slower, but not the person burning, while cadmium would affect everyone? It doesn't add up. No offense, but I think my theory makes more sense.

Hmm... good question. I will answer your question with another question: aren't the metals supposed to be beneficial to the user? If so, then why would a metal make you weaker? I suppose, if you want the effects to match, cadmium could make anyone else in the bubble faster, but then how would that be benifical in travel, like pewter, since the allomancer cannot move as fast, and the other people would exit the bubble, or not be able to go as fast as possible. Wow, that was probably zetta confusing (been playing The World Ends With You xd ;D) .

As for Cadmium and not-Cerrobend,  (Cerrobend is Trademarked.) While at first a Slider would seem more beneficial, (Extra time FTW.) the true beauty I see of a Pulser is in the teamwork. If you're a Pulser, all you have to do is get in the midst of something, slow time, and watch as your "super-fast" friends take care of anything in your bubble. Or, if the abilities compound, two Pulsers could create a pocket of super-slow time, allowing for all sorts of mischief.

62
My personal theory is that they are not human themselves, but rather shards of a human. (Adonalsium.) This would explain why they had human bodies, and yet also cover why they were in complete balance with their power. Preservation could not destroy things, as he was only a fragment of a whole being. (The fragment that just happened to be concerned entirely with preserving things.)


63
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Hoid??
« on: December 19, 2008, 05:03:10 AM »
could he be a shard? Brandon had said that:
 You've interacted with two directly.
One is a tough call.  You've never met the Shard itself, but you've seen its power. 
The other one you have not met directly, but have seen its influence.

The characters have sometimes interacted with hoid, although in HoA Vin decided to skip the visit.  And we have possibily seen his influence, seeing how we don't know the extent of his powers, but he is appearing in multiple places so that might fit in. We also havent exactly met the shard directly, but everyone knows about ti, making it a tough call.... and we have seen its power, planet hopping


So long as that quote is accurate, Hoid cannot be a shard. Kell spoke directly to Hoid in The Final Empire.

And I'm thinking the other two Shards are the Dor and whomever is sending Returned back. Of course, that really belongs in the Shards thread.

64
Hoid does indeed appear in Warbreaker. Lightsong hires him.

Also, I find it interesting how similar Hoid and Hoed are.

65
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Wheel v. Mist
« on: December 13, 2008, 05:04:21 AM »
Okay, with the release of Cadmium and Cerrobend, we have an (Almost.) complete understanding of how Allomancy works. Honestly, I think those two metals change things a lot. Channeling may be very, very useful, but the ability to slow down or speed up time? That would make any person's life that much easier. A Slider burning Cerrobend could do who knows what with all of that extra time. A Pulser, while not nearly as useful, could still make those dull moments trickle by faster.  Either of those two metals would be enough to push me into a Mistborn.

As for a one-on-one fight, I think these metals would give an immense advantage, however I don't know if it would singularly be enough to push the fight one way or another. I think it would depend a lot on how much one could warp time, and how it interacted with other metals. Would a Pulser be able to see Electrum shadows more clearly, as the slowed time means less possibilities? Or would a Slider be able to see them more clearly, as once they left the bubble they would slow down? Would some of the shadows be easier to see as the shadows stopped burning metals?

Anyways, I think this topic deserves reconsideration now that we have almost all of the facts. (The only things left that I see are flaring, metal interactions, and savants, but those are mostly easy to guess.)

66
Seasons are milder in the Central Dominance than those of the Outer Dominances.

However, we can't forget the burnlands. They surround the entire Final Empire, which leads me to believe that they are caused by the sun's heat hitting the planet more directly. This would mean the axial pole of Scadrial is at least close to perpendicular from the astral plane. (I'm pretty sure, at least.)


67
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Wheel v. Mist
« on: December 01, 2008, 06:17:06 AM »
The more I consider this debate, the more I realize that very little would be necessary to sway the fight one way or another.

If it's a freshly-Snapped Mistborn versus a Channeler who just discovered their powers? I'd go with the Mistborn, for sure.

The average Mistborn up against the average Channeler? Take a look at the terrain. (And miscellaneous other questions, such as how much a weave of air weighs and how well it holds up to a point-blank Steelpush. And do weaves give off Bronze pulses? And would a duralumin/nicrosil Riot/Soothe be enough to disturb any given Channeler?)

Rand or one of the Forsaken fighting Elend or one of the other Nine? I'd go with the Channelers here, as there are a lot of weaves to stop even a powerful Mistborn.

A good Forsaken or Shaidar Haran battling an original Allomancer savant?  I'd say the savant, if just because an unaided Steelpush of this magnitude is great enough to crush someone flat by the metals in their own bodies. If someone duralumin-ed the metals in someone else's body, I think they'd go pop.

Shaidar Haran or a really good Forsaken challenging The Lord Ruler? (In all his Allomancy/Feruchemy/Hemalurgy glory of course.) This I think is a game of "Who sees whom first?"

And, just for kicks and giggles, A linked Rand and Nynaeve using the Choedan Kal dueling God-Sazed in an epic battle of things gone too far? It doesn't matter who wins, everyone else is dead.

Aside from that, it's basically just terrain, and crazy odd combos of the two magic systems nobody but Brandon could know about. (Could a Tin savant sense weaves based upon the minute changes a weave would make in the matter around it? Do weaves give off Bronze pulses? Would Copper prevent a Channeler from warping the fabric of creation around a Mistborn?)

68
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Wheel v. Mist
« on: November 20, 2008, 11:43:51 PM »
But that's the neat thing about Brandon's hard magic systems. Once you know the rules, you can apply them in different ways. We know how Steelpushes and Ironpulls work, and we know that weaves of air provide a significantly strong binding force. I can only think of a few instances where this argument has strayed out of "what we strictly know", and none of them were crucial points anyways.

As for the discussion taking away from Channeler's that is merely an offshoot of trying to find a balance between the relative power scales. If we were asking wheather or not the average Aes Sedai could pulverize the average Lord-Ruler-time Mistborn, then the odds are quite in favor of the Channeler. But instead, we're debating whether or not a Mistborn could defeat a Channeler, if all else was equal.

Mistborn can also manipulate the world around them with most of the external metals, and some of their internal powers are great enough it doesn't even matter. It's true a Channeler has more versatility, but Mistborn were conceived to be killers. (At least mostly.) The One Power may be ultimate, but the people using it are most assuredly not.

69
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Wheel v. Mist
« on: November 20, 2008, 04:57:41 AM »
I equate Vin's level of power being somewhere near Moraine's. Quite strong for her time, but not even near the strength of the original nine Allomancers. And her Hemalurgic earring has nothing to do with her beating Ham, as it only increases her Allomantic strength with bronze.

I think a more reasonable comparison is between The Lord Ruler and one of the Forsaken. Both are some of the most powerful individuals in their fields, and both have had a very long time to hone their skills. I'd equate Rashek's Allomancy with one of the weaker Forsaken though, seeing as how he didn't have to rely solely on Allomancy, and he didn't have much opposition.

Also, a few months/years training in the White Tower compared to a few months/years learning things on your own is hardly an equal field. Just in the same way almost anyone on these boards could tell Kelsier a good slew about Allomancy, the older Aes Sedai can impart quite a bit of wisdom to the Accepted and Novices. A few year's training in Allomancy could more roughly translate to Nynaeve's skill with the One Power before her formal training began. She had been using the One Power for years to heal people, and had become quite proficient at it, but she still had her block and any Aes Sedai could run her up one end and down the other.

As for the building scenario, it's true too much force could splatter a Mistborn, but most of that force would either be absorbed by the weaves or used to break them. (Side note: I seem to remember that weaves of air are designed to not hurt those encapsulated in them.) All of the force in an Allomantic Push is directed towards the center of the body, so as long as there is a good, tight flow of air across the center of a Mistborn, the force put upon the body would be very small. There's more force involved if the Allomancer is pushing or pulling at an angle, but I still think that so long as there was a tight weave around the Mistborn, their body would have to endure very little force.

Of course, retreating from theoretical land and moving into more probable grounds, It may be true that a Mistborn is weaker than a building, but so is a Channeler. I believe Elayne equates lifting things with air to be similar to lifting them with your arms, and could you imagine lifting something pressing down with the force of a building? And this is Elayne, who is quite strong indeed in the One Power.  (Or maybe it was Egwene, but the point still stands there.) All it takes is one quick little push against something stronger than the Channeler's weave of air, and the Mistborn gets a distinct advantage as the weaves snap.

Side Note II: Feruchemists?

70
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Wheel v. Mist
« on: November 20, 2008, 01:39:44 AM »
The problem I see with this issue is the difference in degrees of power. A good majority of the Channeler's we see in the Wheel of Time books are regarded as some of the most powerful Channeler's with years of experience backing them. In Mistborn, on the other hand, almost all of the Allomancer's we see are on the weak end of the scale, and have had Allomantic training for only a few years.

Compulsion, Balefire, Rey's shield, all of those take a significantly large strength in the One Power to use. If the Channeler in this fight is that strong, then it's only fair to have an equally strong Mistborn. Say, someone along the lines of Elend's or The Lord Ruler's Allomantic abilities, perhaps even a full-blown Mistborn savant.

Now that that's out of the way . . . Weaves of Air.

I'm pretty sure trapping a Mistborn in a weave of air would be the stupidest thing one could do. The reason? Weaves of air keep the target pinned with a (nigh) unbreakable force. This would mean any Steelpush or Ironpull performed while trapped within a weave of air would have an (almost) infinite weight backing. Just like a coin hitting into a building can push back with a lot more force, the Mistborn hitting into the weaves of air would gain pseudo super-weight. Building in your way? Steelpush it flat. Pesky Aes Sedai bothering you? Smash her with an iron boulder or two. Annoyed at life in general? Do a massive ironpull on the planet's metallic core, and watch as waves of molten metal cascade down upon your enemies, heralding the end of life as they know it as their planet collapses in upon itself. (Though I'm pretty sure that one would kill you too.)

Of course, that may be a tad dramatic, as it's much more likely the weaves of air would just break, giving the Channeler a nice little migraine as their weaves snap, and sending the Mistborn flying off who knows where. After all, Channeler's can't just go lifting up mountains with air, and a properly positioned Steelpush would do just that.

If that isn't enough for you, there's always the old argument of the proper application of electrum and atium. Burning those two metals, a Mistborn knows everything that could possibly happen around him, and by focusing on the proper electrum shadow they know just how to turn any situation to their utmost advantage. (Or at least how to stay alive.) Lightning going to strike from the sky? Atium-shadows, or if that doesn't work, stay away from the electrum paths that show you getting fried. Weave of compulsion headed your way? Stay away from the electrum shadows which show you stop moving. (Though that could be a weave of air as well.)

Finally, I would not dismiss zinc and brass so easily. It's true most Channeler's are trained to keep their emotions in check, but I'm not so sure that would hold up if a Soothing or Rioting was fueled by duralumin. I see that as having an effect much like giving up Biochromatic Breath to someone. The shock is essentially unavoidable, and all it takes is one moment out of control for the One Power to drag you under.

Now I'm not saying it would be Mistborn > Channeler in any fight, by no means. But I don't think it would be quite as cut-and-dry as most people make it out to be. It's just all about the balance of power between the two groups. If we're going to have high-strength Channeler's going at it, we need to have high-strength Mistborn as well.

71
That sounds about right to me, and the only flaw I find with your burn > store > burn scenario is that I think if you were to store all the gains you got from burning a Feruchemical charge, the hunk of metal would be too large to swallow.

72
Actually, I have this pet theory brewing that if one were both an aluminum/duralumin Misting and a Feruchemist, some interesting effects could be achieved.

73
Ah, but does it affect the metals, that is the question, it is equally logical that it is affecting the person.  Because remember it is the person who is actually burning the metals in the first place, so then what Duralumin does can just as easily said to be increasing the bodies ability to burn metal at an exponential rate, and that Aluminum allows the body to instantly purge the metals.  Whose to say that Iron and Steel do not in fact give the body the ability to manipulate the metals.  It is my personal theory that the metals when burned do nothing but affect the burners body, so that he has access to small shards of the power of Adonalsium.  And I can be completely wrong here, as either explanation seems completely reasonable to me.

What I'm really trying to say is not that it effects metals directly but rather that the effects involve metals.   Without metals, there is no effect.   Without metal, Iron and Steel are useless.   Without an another allomancer burning metal, Bronze and Copper are useless.   Without the allomancer having injested metal, Duralumin and Aluminum are useless.   They are all useless without metal outside of the metal being burned.   There is nothing in there saying how they effect or change the allomancer burning them, just that their effects involve metals whereas the others do not.

But copper and bronze don't have anything to do with metals. They deal with ripples in the fabric of creation, which are caused when someone taps into the powers of a Shard. This is shown because the mist spirit, who didn't have any metals, gave off a distinct "Allomantic" pulse. 

74
Okay, Allomantic metals. Let's start with a reference table for those who may be just joining the conversation.

Physical Metals:

Iron: External Pulling metal. Pulls external metals to the Allomancer. Simple enough.
Steel: External Pushing metal. Same as iron, but swapped.

Tin: Internal Pulling metal. Increases bodily input functions, Pulling out more sensitivity.
Pewter: Internal Pushing metal. Increases bodily output functions, Pushing the body further.
(Notes: Tin and Pewter do balance out, as pewter provides a counterpoint to tin's senses, and tin provides a counter to pewter's lack of feeling.)

Mental Metals:

Zinc: External Pulling metal. Pulls on the emotions of others, inflaming passions.
Brass: External Pushing metal. Pushes on the emotions of others, dampening passions.

Copper: Internal Pulling metal. Pulls tight your area in the fabric of creation. This prevents Allomantic pulses and mental Allomancy.
Bronze: Internal Pushing metal. Pushes open the awareness to the fabric of creation. (Or perhaps Pushes out an Allomantic echo pulse.) Lets an Allomancer hear ripples in the fabric.
(Notes: Copper, at least, is indeed an internal metal. Vin can feel a slight buzzing within herself when she burns it, as evidenced in The Final Empire. I believe the same is true for bronze.)

Temporal Metals:

Gold: Internal Pulling metal. Pulls an alternate past into the present. 
Electrum: Internal Pushing metal. Pushes out an array of possible futures.

Enhancement Metals:

Chromium: External Pulling metal. Enables an Allomancer to Pull away another Allomancer's metals.
Nicrosil: External Pushing metal. Enables an Allomancer to Push out another Allomancer's metals.

Aluminum: Internal Pulling metal. Pulls away an Allomancer's metals, preventing their use.
Duralumin: Internal Pushing metal. Pushes out an Allomancer's metals, expending them all in one flare.
(Notes:I don't think it's ever been confirmed that the metals themselves are affected, merely their Allomantic effect.)

Shards of Andonalsium:
Lerasium: Bequeaths Allomancy. Alloys create mistings.
Atium: Shows the most probable outcome of a situation. Alloys show different things. (Probably, as witnessed by the gold alloy, malatium.)



The main discrepancy I have with your theories, MellingtonBoots and ShadowKiller, is that Copper and Brass don't affect metals, they affect the Allomancer. This is illustrated in the books, and Brandon even mentioned the fabric of creation in an earlier post in this topic.

75
Brandon Sanderson / Re: The Mistborn Trilogy. *Spoilers*
« on: November 03, 2008, 05:34:43 AM »
Personally, my favorite scenes are:

1. Kelsier's death scene. It seems like everyone falls in love with Kelsier, at least a little bit, and then he's just gone. It's a huge, dramatic affair, but it doesn't lose the sense of anguish and emptiness that a real death evokes.

2. Vin burning the mists. (Either vs. Inquisitors or The Lord Ruler.) Both of these passages are positively reeking of power, and come to show that Vin isn't just good, she's downright special. Twelve Inquisitors, Kredik Shaw, even The Lord Ruler himself are just teardrops in the ocean once Vin gets her business gloves on.

3. Straff gets cut in half. That sucker had it coming to him, big time.

4. Zane and Vin compete to stay above ground. Sweet, sweet, Allomancy, the physical metals at their finest. A few examples of good imagery here are them splashing through the fountain and Zane's little ballet twirl at the end.

5. House Venture throws a ball, take one. The Keep's majestic, Elend's witty and disheveled, and political intrigue abounds. Much fun, all in all.

(Secret Bonus Scene: "Well look, that hill is red. The evil force of doom oppressing us sure has style.)

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