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Topics - Chaos

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Everything Else / Observe the hilarity!
« on: September 14, 2008, 08:48:01 PM »
You know UtopiaGreen01? Well, I googled him, and I'm willing to put money on this being the same person:;_ylt=Ap9R9RvP0fvnbqMdp3incXLsy6IX;_ylv=3?link=question&more=y&show=8ciysvCQaa

Enjoy in the horrifying way only UtopiaGreen can make you feel.

Brandon Sanderson / The Countdown
« on: September 14, 2008, 07:11:02 AM »
Right now, in my time zone (Mountain time), it has just turned into September 14th. Which means... only thirty more days until the Hero of Ages!

I say that this topic will be the Grand Countdown for it. But, instead of just having people say "Twenty-nine days until MB3!" over and over again, I say we mix it up a bit :D.

Every day, let's post one of our theories and discuss it for the day. As of late, it seems we just wait for sample chapters and not do much rampant theorizing, so hopefully, this topic will get us both psyched and get us on our final stretch of theorizing before the answers are revealed!

I'm not sure how we'd decide which theory to start on for each day. I suppose the first poster for the day can suggest a theory to discuss, and we could just see how it goes!

Any takers for the first day's discussion, T-30 days to go? (Ookla could suggest some theories to talk about, too!)

Brandon Sanderson / The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
« on: September 11, 2008, 04:23:33 AM »
Okay, this one is similar to the Hemalurgy thread. Let's filter all questions, theories, and ideas about the kandra into one topic (most notably the stuff that was posted in the "Vin as HOA" topic, which seemed to have diverted into a talk about kandra these last few pages).

Plus, we have this juicy morsel. Discuss (kandra-wise, at least)!

Brandon Sanderson / Ashfalls
« on: April 26, 2008, 06:21:35 AM »
This is new territory right here. Why do the ashfalls occur? What purpose do they serve? Why would the Lord Ruler bring out ash if it didn't have a purpose?

I feel that the ash is important for those reasons, but most of all: Brandon named the Ashmounts. Proper nouns are always important.

So, let's get some ash theories going!

(Spoilers for anyone who hasn't finished MB2 yet, at least)

I just happened to be glancing at the Hero of Ages page on Amazon today, and the description of it is up! This has to be pretty new, because a few weeks ago, I know it wasn't there.

It's not much, but in lieu of the final thing or sample chapters, I'll take it:

Who is the Hero of Ages?

To end the Final Empire and restore freedom, Vin killed the Lord Ruler. But as a result, the Deepness---the lethal form of the ubiquitous mists---is back, along with increasingly heavy ashfalls and ever more powerful earthquakes. Humanity appears to be doomed.

Having escaped death at the climax of The Well of Ascension only by becoming a Mistborn himself, Emperor Elend Venture hopes to find clues left behind by the Lord Ruler that will allow him to save the world. Vin is consumed with guilt at having been tricked into releasing the mystic force known as Ruin from the Well. Ruin wants to end the world, and its near omniscience and ability to warp reality make stopping it seem impossible. She canít even discuss it with Elend lest Ruin learn their plans!

The conclusion of the Mistborn trilogy fulfills all the promise of the first two books. Revelations abound, connections rooted in early chapters of the series click into place, and surprises, as satisfying as they are stunning, blossom like fireworks to dazzle and delight. It all leads up to a finale unmatched for originality and audacity that will leave readers rubbing their eyes in wonder, as if awaking from an amazing dream.

I have this enormous grin after reading that! I am so excited for MB3! If EUOL reads this thread, when do you think any sample chapters would be released? Hero of Ages link.

Brandon Sanderson / The Mists
« on: March 31, 2008, 01:24:02 PM »
Brandon said in one of his Mistborn 1 annotations that his Allomancy-Feruchemy-Hemalurgy triad is the most complicated system he has ever devised. He's also said that the mists exist in a "fundamental level" to them all.

So, I'm making this topic so we can discuss our mist related theories. Obviously, the mists are very important, so they should have its own special discussion for them.

I had some thoughts, then, about Allomancy and the mists. As it was said in the Ruin and Preservation thread, there is something we are missing, something that ties everything together, most likely. We see all these different points that Brandon needs to cover in MB3--explaining Ruin and Preservation, Hemalurgy, why Vin has the powers she does (for example, drawing upon the mists), why the sun is red and the Ashmounts, and of course, tying it all together in a great climax. It seems overwhelming. I've been feeling lately that all our speculating... isn't really getting us much closer. We are missing something.

And, from what seems to be said about MB3 by alpha readers, the book is as fantastic as the others. I think I remember Ookla saying Brandon was a "dirty genius" in one older thread. So, I have every hope that Brandon will succeed in his quest to explain everything and wrap up Mistborn in a great way.

The key that we are missing, I think has to be the mists. We know not how or why, but the mists are important. Let's get back to theorizing-land, shall we?

Okay, I'm rambling. Here's my theory about Allomancy and its relation with the mists:

Allomancy is weird. Eating metals, and subconsciously burning them to release energy? It's sort of out there, but we like it. For all Brandon's explanation about Allomancy, we never know the fundamentals--the real, deep fundamentals about Allomancy. Namely, how Allomancers burn metals.

I am pretty sure Brandon knows the answer to this question (he likes to make things logical). I recall this one passage where we are in Vin's viewpoint, and she thinks to herself that "she doesn't need to know how she burns metals. All she needs to know is that she can." (something like that). That subtle reference points to a reason for Allomancy, one which isn't understood by anyone (except probably the Lord Ruler).

We are also very aware that Allomancy has a link with the mists--equally mysterious. You use Allomancy, and the mists are pulled to you. Heck, the name "Mistborn" and "Misting" successfully links Allomancers to the very nature of the mists. The two are linked.

How, then? Let's think for a moment. Brandon says mists are "fundamental" in the world of Mistborn and its magic. So--go with me here--what if, the mists were the reason why an Allomancer can burn metals?

It's weird, in itself. I could be totally in crazy land with this one, I'll admit. I have very little evidence to support this theory. But, the link seems logical and reasonable to me.

In fact, I'm beginning to think we all have it backwards. Our normal analysis says that when we use Allomancy, the mists move. That's cause and effect. The Allomancy--cause--makes the mists move--effect. Well, switch that around. An Allomancer uses his or her subconsious, and somehow that channels the mists--pulling the mists towards the Allomancer--and that, in turn, lets the metals burn. The mists are the cause, rather than being the effect.

Oookay, call me insane, because it sounds weird. It just feels... right.

The theory doesn't explain why Inquisitors push away the mists. It doesn't explain a lot of things. But, unless I've completely missed a cool thread, there hasn't been a theory that explains how an Allomancer burns metals. Think about it.

By the way, I don't want this thread to just be a discussion about this theory. Let's discuss everything mist related. I, personally, would love a unified topic to discuss why the killing mists don't usually kill...

Writing Group / Manuscript Formatting
« on: March 28, 2008, 02:14:58 AM »
I was just wondering, when an author is writing is manuscript, what type of formatting should he do on it? Is there a specific type of formatting agents and publishers prefer in manuscripts? I would suppose you want to avoid formatting them too much, but what is the "base font", per se?

Brandon Sanderson / The 16th metal's power--Potential spoilers.
« on: March 27, 2008, 11:09:54 PM »
Here I'm going to talk about Allomancy fairly in-depth. If you don't want to know or ruin a potential surprise, don't say I didn't warn you (also there are plot points from the end of MB2 as well). Do note, however, this is merely theory. I have no more qualification to talk about this than the next person--only Brandon has the true authority. This is not fact (though I hope I'm on the right track), simply a theory.

So, we know about the Physical metals, we know about the Mental metals. We also know about the Temporal metals. Each quartet has two pushing metals, two pulling, two Internal, two External.

However, there is a fourth quartet of metals--that much should be obvious. I mean, Aluminum and Duralumin aren't classified under any of those three quartet. And, if there is a quartet, then there are two other metals that aren't named (I say this for summation purposes--many who have been looking at the Speculative topics already know this fact).

These metals influence metals and Allomancy itself. I'm going to call them the Metallic metals, even though that is an awful name--one I didn't coin, by the way.

I think it is safe to assume that Aluminum and Duralumin are the Externals of the quartet. I mean, they affect how Allomancy is burned, and burning metals has generally very External effects. So, I hereby define these metals to be:

Metal 13. Aluminum - Metallic External Pulling Metal. Pulls on Allomantic metals, extinguishing an Allomancers supply of metals.
Metal 14. Duralumin - Metallic External Pushing Metal. Pushes on Allomantic metals, flaring them so rapidly that they burn away.

So, if those are the Externals, what are the Internals? At the end of MB2, Elend ingests a strange metal. He subsequently gains the powers of a Mistborn. I--and probably others as well--are convinced that this metal is the 15th metal. It gives the user the ability of Allomancy--the powers of the Mistborn. I'm also convinced that this metal is how the Lord Ruler gave the original supporters of his rule Allomancy, and, as well, how he gives the Steel Inquisitors their Mistborn powers (now, that doesn't mean its the only thing that goes into making an Inquisitor, but definitely a part).

The effects of the metals are External in nature, but the ability to use the metals themselves are Internal. I classify the 15th and 16th metals as Internal.

There is also a very interesting pattern which evolves with the Temporal quartet. Atium sees into the future of someone else. It's pair, malatium, sees into the past of someone else. Gold sees into your past. Electrum sees into your future.

While Atium/Malatium are external, simply by the merits of each one being Pushing or Pulling, there is a symmetry. Atium, I believe, is the Temporal External Pushing metal, and Electrum is Pushing as well (because I rather think that seeing into the future is more of a Push). There is symmetry amongst a Pushing pair or a pulling pair, one that isn't as prevalent in the Internal or External metals.

So, here I get this crazy idea. Aluminum "Pulls" (once again, whether it is Pushing or Pulling is not immediately prevalent, but I'm going with this until someone tells me otherwise), taking away metals. The 15th metal doesn't exactly give you metals, but it gives you the ability to burn metals. That seems symmetrical enough for me.


Metal 15. Unknown metal #1 - Metallic Internal Pulling Metal. Grants the ability of Allomancy to the person who ingests this metal.

Going on with the idea of symmetry, Duralumin must have some sort of similarity with the 16th metal. The 16th is one I don't think anyone has solidly defined, so here I shall attempt that!

Duralumin burns your metals away in a flare. This seems remarkably similar to how Vin describes the Well in MB2: the power had to be burned away in an instant, and then it was gone.

:D. That is far too coincidental to be false. It's symmetric--in that both Duralumin and the 16th metals burn things away rapidly.


Metal 16. Unknown metal #1 - Metallic Internal Pushing Metal. Burns away "the power" in an instant, power of creation.

I say "the power" because I'd like to say "The Power of Allomancy" but you can't burn an ability away. The only thing really able to burn is the power at the Well itself.

Something like that, I think, is the closest we can get to knowing what these metals do.

However, I can discern what the symbols are for these metals, if I did classify them correctly. Notice this wallpaper that Brandon posted in the fan art thread. It shows the circle of Allomantic metals--which, by the way, further verifies that there are 16 metals.

The top left quartet--if you look at your MB2 Ars Arcanum--is Physical, top-right is Mental, and the bottom-right is Temporal. The inner ring of metals is Internal, the outer External. The bottom-left is the only quartet not in the MB2 Arcanum, so that must be our Metallic metals.

Further analyzing these symbols, we can see which ones Push and which ones Pull. Look at the dots on a symbol. It's either out or its in. The symbols which are "out" of the symbol are Pulling, and the dots which are "in" the symbol are Pushing.

So, utilizing this knowledge:

15th metal:
16th metal:

Brandon Sanderson / Gemmel
« on: March 27, 2008, 02:09:43 AM »
I reread MB1 again, and one striking question comes to mind: what happened to Gemmel, Kelsier's Mistborn mentor?

Gemmel is never characterized, never given a backstory. The only time he appears is in Kelsier's remembrances of his training.

I thought this was very interesting. I believe this Gemmel is going to be an important character in the third book. It's possible that Gemmel is dead, but his fate is never even loosely inferred by Kelsier. Since Kelsier says that he got his legends about the Eleventh metal from the north (hence telling us Kelsier went north in his two years before MB1's events after he left the Pits of Hathsin), it could be that Gemmel lived up north and gave Kelsier those legends.

And since the north is very far away, this is why we don't see him in any of the books. Yet, at least.


Suggestions Box / Original Fiction forum
« on: March 08, 2008, 05:42:05 AM »
I was thinking, you have all sorts of different forums, most of which discusses works already in existence. Well, what if there was a forum where the members could post like, some of their own, original fiction, where other people here could comment on it? It could foster a lot of learning for writers, honing skills and such.

Oh, and it would waste time. I don't know if that's really a consideration if a forum would be created or not, but hey, this board is called the Time-Waster's Guide. What would waste more time than people posting their own creations :P?

Now, I'm not suggesting that entire books be posted here. I was largely thinking of smaller, episodic content. Almost the kinds you'd see in fan-fictions, but only, if you didn't want this board descend into that potential abyss, you could restrict it to completely original content.

I thought I'd suggest this because I have a work I write with a co-author that on my little tiny forum, doesn't get very many comments on it. I would like to post it here (though, I find it quite terrifying for anything I write to be hit so critically by all these people, but you all seem very nice and helpful, so what could it hurt but to make us better?), but I didn't see an exact forum that quite fits.

EDIT: Of course, Writing Group could be the forum for that. Is that where I should post something like this, or would it be better to be in a new forum that doesn't exist yet?

Brandon Sanderson / The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« on: March 06, 2008, 07:59:52 PM »
Because it's really starting to make me angry that we don't have one. Let's channel all Hemalurgy stuff here, okay? Just so we get everything in one theory topic.

For those of you who don't know, Hemalurgy, as Brandon said in his MB1 annotations, is how the Steel Inquisitors are the way they are.

I'm running a little short of time, so I won't be able to summarize some of the stuff already mentioned about the subject, but I'll try as much as possible.

Steel Inquisitors push away the mists. They have the power of a Mistborn. They can use atium like Mistborn can. Steel Inquisitors created through blood and human sacrifice, shown in MB1 with Marsh and in MB2 at the Conventical of Seran. So, obviously, Hemalurgy has to do with blood. Inquisitors have spikes through their eyeballs, and it's been theorized that each spike is a different metal, and they burn those metals there.

Possibly, it has been said that the Inquisitor's healing powers come from Feruchemy, using the metal inside them to store up attributes, much like the Lord Ruler.

I'm running out of time, so I'll link you all to two Hemalurgy-related topics for some, well, "feeding material". Or whatever.

So, Hemalurgy. Let's discuss this in depth, sorting out all the details.

Brandon Sanderson / Ruin and Preservation
« on: March 03, 2008, 07:17:32 PM »
I discovered something very interesting as I was reading through the MB1 annotations. says an interesting fact about the Lord Ruler.

I put the Lord Ruler in black and white--rather than just black, as I'd originally planned--to give metaphoric reference to his belief that he is God. He's both black and white--he encompasses all, and controls all. Of course, he's faking. In the mythology of this world, there are two forced--Ruin and Preservation--and he really only touched one of the two powers. But, then, we'll have more on that in later books.

Ruin and Preservation. This is probably the most crucial piece of information I've uncovered from the MB1 annotations (and yes, it took a herculean effort to say "crucial" instead of "interesting" a third time). I'm fairly certain this hasn't been discussed in the forum yet, so, let's talk about it here.\

Obviously this is a colossal revelation to... well, everything. The Allomancy-Feruchemy-Hemalurgy triads of magics are probably influenced, and most important, the exact nature of the Well of Ascension.

So let's think about this for a minute. The Well, of course, has a lot of power. Since Brandon just said the Lord Ruler touched one of those powers, its the one at the Well. That means we have either Ruin or Preservation to decide from here. This is the important part. We can presume that the Well Spirit inside there (locked away or imprisoned, whatever) is malevolent, sending the Deepness to cause chaos and "ruin" in order to make a Hero set it free. It lends itself to the whole Ruin mechanic there.

And really, the Lord Ruler isn't Mary Poppins. He is quite malevolent himself, and I'm pretty sure that he's responsible for the Ashmounts and the lack of green plants in the Final Empire (I say "pretty sure" because without MB3 out, there could always be something we don't know. Like if the Deepness actually was responsible for it. That's implausible, but I'm just saying. It could be a lot of things). If the Well, essentially, is the quintessential Ruin force, and the Lord Ruler got his power from there, then his power also derives from Ruin.

But then again, in a sense, the Lord Ruler "preserved" the world from certain destruction that the Well Spirit, or perhaps we should be calling the Ruin Entity or something along those lines, would have caused. If that's the case, that totally destroys my theory there.

If the Lord Ruler touched Ruin like I think he did, it could explain why he's a lot more evil. We don't exactly know the effect of what will happen as someone takes the Well's power for himself. Vin describes it like she would have to burn all the power away in a few instances. But you gotta wonder... the Lord Ruler can pierce copperclouds and has more power than even his Allomancy/Feruchemy could do, it seems. I doubt that instead of freeing the Ruin Entity, having it live inside you for a thousand years probably doesn't make you any more good, just more evil (I would think a Preservation influence would whip the Lord Ruler to not do his horrible atrocities).

It's logical to assume that if the Well of Ascension, as we know it, is merely the sum of the Ruin force, there could be a second Well that has the power of Preservation, just for balance sakes. That doesn't make any sense, but it's possible.

Of course, if the Lord Ruler actually touched Preservation at the Well, and the Ruin spirit also lives there (by some strange paradox), then the Well has both powers. But now I'm just confusing myself. Feel free to interpret this information any way you want. God knows I'm just perplexing myself with all of this.

But the whole Ruin/Preservation duality has to be recognized for MB3, that much is certain.

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