Timewaster's Guide Archive

Regarding Vasher hiding his divine breath from the world: it occurs to me that when Vasher wants to hide the fact that he's an awakener, he hides his breaths by storing them in a cloth or something. So it makes the most sense (to me) that Vasher should have an amulet or a ring or something like that in which he stores his divine breath; the trick then would be for him to find a way to get the divine breath to sustain him even when it's stored in the amulet. Then, in order for him to "return", he'd just have to draw the divine breath back into himself.

I agree that there ought to be a scene between Vivenna and Siri before the end of the book, for the reasons Rose and Matt have already mentioned.

They’d recovered Vasher’s cloak, shirt, and trousers--the ones that Denth had originally taken from him.  There had been enough Breath in those to split among the two of them and get them each to the Second Heightening.

Heh. We're not even pretending anymore that the "you can only give other people all your breath at the same time" rule is hard to circumvent, are we?

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't think that either my suggestion or Matt's additions to it actually require Denth to be about to kill Vivenna. Though I suppose it might add something if he were planning to, say, cut her ears off and send them to her father.

It might work better to state Denth's reasons for not killing Vivenna in the story. For example, Tonk Fah could want to kill her (since she almost strangled him), but Denth could stop him and persuade him to use her as a hostage first (promising Tonk Fah that he could kill her later).

I think part of what make the lifeless seem weak is that they're, well, zombies. And everyone knows a dude with a chainsaw is an even match for ten thousand zombies.

The divine breaths thing solves some of the problems, but it still doesn't explain who taught Susebron how to awaken stuff. Vivenna had to practice and train herself before she could even use simple commands. (Unless returned have some kind of innate knowledge of awakening commands, but if they did, then there wouldn't be much need for scholars to research command phrases, would there?)

Also, it seems to me like it would be more internally consistent if awakened objects consumed breath, to make all of these breath-consuming powers in the last few chapters fit in better. So for example, if Vasher awakened a shirt and left it awakened and doing stuff for a day, then he might be down one-seventh of a breath when he took it back at the end of the day. (Of course, that mechanic requires it to be possible to transfer or awaken with portions of a breath, and if you could do that, then using the "putting the breaths you don't want to transfer into a cloth until after the transfer" thing, you could feed the returned by taking a tiny fraction of all the Halladren's breaths, instead of taking some people's entire breaths and turning them into drabs.)

Like I said, it's been a long time since I read the beginning parts of this book. I think I got the idea that returned create other returned when they die based on some comment about the returned always replenishing their numbers. (If a new returned is created each time one dies, then there would always be the same number of returned gods.)

Towards the end of the book, Vasher and Vivenna were routinely doing stuff like storing all but fifty of their breaths in a piece of cloth (in order to disguise their status as awakeners), without even having to awaken the cloth. It seemed like they could store any number of breaths they wanted.

Random, off-the-top-of-my-head strategies for defeating the lifeless--

• Assuming alcohol-ichor is really based on alcohol, it should burn pretty well. So wait until the lifeless are marching through a dry field or something, then set it on fire. If the lifeless were ordered to march to Idris, they'll just keep going, rather than running away or trying to put the fire out, so they'll burn to death. Better yet, soak the field in oil before they get there.
• Of course, any other sort of trap should work equally well, as the first lifeless who encounter the trap won't be able to tell the others to avoid it without a commander to order them to do so.
• Using a small company of mounted soldiers, lead the army somewhere where they'll have to split up, such as a hill or peak that they'll have to run around. (Each lifeless will take the shortest path, so some will go left around the peak, while others go right.) Then have some soldiers ride ahead of each of the two columns of lifeless, holding up an Idris flag. When the two columns of lifeless see each other again, they will see that the other column is led by soldiers carrying an Idris flag, and so (being stupid) each column will assume that the other column is fighting for Idris and attack it.
• Cribbed from the native americans: have some mounted soldiers lead the lifeless to a cliff. When they get there, the soldiers should dismount and carefully climb down the cliff, just ahead of the lifeless. The lifeless in the back won't be able to see the cliff and will keep running forward, pushing the lifeless at the front off the cliff.

Of course, landslides and dams would work too.

Um...I don't know what to say about this. I feel kind of like an idiot. Maybe it's just that it's been so long since I read the beginning parts of the book, but a whole pile of stuff in the last couple of chapters just seemed to come out of nowhere.

I don't mean the bit about the statues. I had an idea that something was going to happen with the statues all along, and as soon as Vasher mentioned a secret army at the beginning of this chapter, I thought of the statues right away. So that made sense.

But...

Super Saiyan Vasher. What? I mean, uh, WHAT? Where'd that come from? Why'd he have to change form just to tell Susebron that the statues were a secret army? And assuming his new form gives him extra strength or something, why didn't he change form earlier and use the glowy-ness to beat up Denth before the Lifeless marched, and stop the war without having to unleash his "terrible tool"? (Or for that matter, change form during that final council, use the glowy-ness to make everyone else think he's a god, and then use his god-hood to go see Siri and the God King instead of sneaking into the palace and getting his butt captured?)

Susebron kneels to Vasher. Even though Vasher is some kind of historical figure, Susebron shouldn't know him, since Susebron is only sixty-ish years old. And he knows hardly any history, which was why Siri had to get Lightsong to hire a historian. Unless Susebron has been lying to Siri about his past the whole time, which doesn't bode well for their marriage.

Susebron is an awakener. This doesn't make sense on two levels: I thought the returned couldn't awaken stuff, and even if they could, when did Susebron learn the commands?  The priests sure wouldn't have taught him.... (Actually -- this is part of why I feel like an idiot, I guess -- I guess I still don't really get what Susebron is. Is he really a returned, or just a guy with a whole lot of breath?)

Scared of the lifeless. Since the Pahn Kahl have been defeated, the Lifeless army now has nobody commanding it. Which means it's now an army of forty thousand idiots. From what we know about lifeless, they can't plan, they can't communicate with each other, and they sure can't react to changing battlefield conditions, react to the enemy's strategies, and come up with new tactics. Their actions, in short, will be utterly predictable. With forewarning, any creative and guileful military captain should be able to take out that army by himself. (I thought of several ways to do this as I was reading this chapter, didn't you?)

My life for your tongue. Maybe it's clearer in version 3.0, but somehow I'd gotten the impression that the Returned's power was to turn someone else into a returned when they died, not to straight-up heal them. (Although straight-up healing does make some stuff from the earlier chapters make more sense.)

If you prick us do we not bleed? How were the returned kept unaware of the fact that they can be cut, hurt, and killed? It makes sense that the priests wouldn't have hurt them, and would have tried to keep them from harm. But surely the gods would have on occasion stubbed their toes, or cut themselves with their eating utensils, or bitten each other during bouts of rough sex. Or did I miss something that was done to Lightsong and Blushweaver when they were captured, in order to make them vulnerable?

Engage Nightblood mode. Vasher's power when he drew Nightblood wasn't too unexpected -- we always knew something crazy would happen. But I'd had the impression that the reason for not drawing Nightblood was that it made you go insane, not that it drained your breath. (And it did seem rather like engaging a super-power mode in a computer game.)

I can only give you all of my breaths at once. But I can store all the breaths I don't want to give you, transfer the rest, and then take the ones I stored back, which pretty much makes this restriction moot. Vivenna can't have been the first person to realize this. And that being the case, there doesn't seem to be much point in having that restriction in the magic system at all.

I suppose some of this stuff might get answered in the next chapter. And, except maybe for Super Saiyan Vasher, none of this stuff was really that big a deal, it's just that it kept adding up. 

But anyway. Definitely looking forward to the next chapter. Robots versus zombies!

There are, unfortunately, reasons why I have to start the book where I did.  I can't get into it without major spoilers.  You are perfectly right about this chapter lacking a hook, which is why I decided from the get-go that I'd need to start with a scene from the middle of the book, then jump back. 

So, this chapter should be considered the SECOND, and not the one that introduces Midius's character. 

Oh yeah! I forgot about that. Sorry.

Um...I'm not really sure what to say about chapter one, if we're supposed to already know and care about Midius's character before that chapter. I had actually kind of assumed that the main reason for this chapter to exist was that you wanted to get Midius's character into the reader's mind before Theus's. If it serves any other purpose that can't be accomplished later, I don't see what it could be...which, I suppose, you may take to mean that the clues you've planted in this chapter have been hidden well.

I do still stand by my comments about Midius and his motivations seeming impersonal.

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EDIT: Come to think of it, you mentioned that you intended to start the story with a scene where Theus is about to execute Midius. Do you mean the scene from chapter four, or a later scene? If the chapter four scene (and assuming you cut if off where Theus says "kill him"), it doesn't really tell us much of anything about Midius except that his master is dead -- so this chapter really is our introduction to Midius's character.

If it's a later scene, on the other hand, you'd be taking much of the tension out of the chapter four scene because we'd know Theus can't kill Midius then. (This is why, in general, I don't really like the technique of starting with a chapter from the middle of the book: basically, everything that happens until you "catch up" with the chapter you started with is like a gigantic flashback, so it's harder to create surprise or tension. Then again, I've read essays by writers who love that technique so much they use it in every book they write.)

The new chapter one does certainly seem more consistent with how Midius's character and abilities are portrayed in the rest of the sample chapters you posted. But I think that this chapter could be a lot better. My complaint, basically, is that I don't think this chapter one is a very good hook: there's not much action in it, and I don't really like or sympathize with Midius at the end (though I don't dislike him, either).

Midius just seems awfully impersonal in this chapter. For example, he describes Hoid as the greatest man who had ever lived, and not as, say my best, only friend. His reasons for going to Partinel seem similarly impersonal and general -- and therefore weak. (Midius thinks Hoid thinks it's important -- but not urgent, obviously, since he can afford to spend his time just sitting in his cabin and staring at old scrolls -- to find some kind of secret to save Partinel...and so Midius suddenly decides to go dashing off to the city, putting his life at risk, to, uh, poke around randomly? Huh?)

It might work better, for example, to have Midius go to Partinel to find out who had Hoid killed, and why. He could then be given to understand that Theus(a) thought that Hoid knew how to help save the city, but was refusing to do so; Midius might then agree to try to save the city just to get himself out of prison (but he'd be troubled by trying to understand why Hoid didn't save the city -- or is Theus lying?). In the long run, though I think it would be important to make Midius more human by giving him something that he cares passionately and personally about.

Some off-the-cuff ideas about how this scene could play out to give it more action:

• Midius is off in the fain forest practicing his newly-learned lightweaving abilities (and having trouble because he's not that good yet). Theus's (mounted) assassin encounters Midius, and Midius, thinking that he's bringing supplies or information that Hoid has ordered, directs him to Hoid's cottage. Shortly afterward, Midius hears shouts from the direction of the cottage, and rushes back. But he's to late -- the cottage comes in sight just in time for Midius to see  Hoid and the assassin kill each other; in the process, they knock over a candle, which lights the cottage on fire. Midius rescues the coat and dagger from the burning building, and then sets out to Partinel to find out why Hoid was killed.
• Or, you could start the story with Midius arriving at the city. He remembers how he's just lost his home and his mentor; he needs a new place to live, and thinks he can do a lot to help the people of Partinel. He expects to be welcomed, because he doesn't know that jesks aren't allowed in the city. He gets into an argument with the gate guards, who don't want to let him in, until he demonstrates his lightweaving powers. Then the guards stop arguing and just knock him out. Well, he thinks as he loses consciousness, that could have gone better....

In the second case, of course, either Theus's chapter would come first, or else the existing chapters would have to be broken up somewhat. The most straightforward thing to do, of course, would be to have chapter three be only about Midius's conversation with the cooper.

Also, it occurs to me that if the fain forest is poisonous, the pollen and dust there ought to be at least mildly toxic. It might make more sense -- and provide a nice visual image -- if everyone who went into the fain forest for any length of time had to wear some kind of breath mask. Just a scarf wrapped around your head would do, but people who spent a lot of time in the forest might have something more elaborate.

If I remember right, the Chronology of Science & Discovery is more of a reference book. It is well-written, but I'm not sure if I'd want  to read it from cover to cover for a school project.

I don't know how to find out a book's lexile score either. Lexile.com's database seems extremely limited. But if you're looking for great non-fiction books, I can certainly recommend some:

• Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs and Steel asks why some cultures advanced more quickly than others, technologically speaking, so that, for example, the Europeans conquered the Native Americans rather than the other way around. The book tackles questions of what is needed for a culture to develop technologically, and provides a great, broad perspective of history. It's an amazing book. Diamond's Collapse, about cultures in history that failed because of damage that they did to their environment, is also very good, if you ignore the part at the end where Diamond gets all preachy. (These books might be a little long to read for a class project -- though, I think they're shorter than Asimov's autobiographies -- but they're definitely well worth reading.)
• If you like A Brief History of Time, you might also give Lee Smolin's The Trouble with Physics a look. It's an accessible book that takes a look at what string theory is, and what it has accomplished (and failed to accomplish) in the last thirty years.
• If you have any interest in becoming a writer, Orson Scott Card's Characters & Viewpoint is a must read. James N. Frey's How To Write A Damn Good Novel series, especially How To Write A Damn Good Mystery, also provides some useful advice about how to develop a plot outline and (to a lesser extent) how to develop characters. Ignore his advice about writing narrative, though, and be aware that the terms he uses for the parts of a story are...nonstandard, to say the least. (For example, Mr. Frey calls the main plot of a novel its "premise", and when he wants to say that each scene in your story should contribute to the main plot, he says that you should "prove your premise". I nearly fell over.)
• Atul Gawande's Complications: A Surgeon's Notes on an Imperfect Science is about learning to become a doctor. You should definitely read it, if you don't mind reading about people getting jabbed with needles and suchlike.
• Mary Roach's Stiff: The Curious Lives of Human Cadavers is about what happens to people's bodies once they're dead, and it's tons of fun.
• Steven D. Levitt and Stephen J. Dubner's Freakonomics doesn't live up to the hype in my opinion, but it's still pretty good.
• Temple Grandin and Catherine Johnson's Animals in Translation is also a marvelous book.