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Messages - daranthered

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Writing Group / Re: What is Civilisation?
« on: March 24, 2011, 06:47:07 AM »
Everything I know about civilisation I learned from "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire," by Edward Gibbon.

Will Durant's working version is a much quicker read, however;

http://www.willdurant.com/civilization.htm

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Writing Group / Re: Fallen Fantasist
« on: March 09, 2011, 10:51:51 PM »
I would like to see more gritty fantasy. Not necessarily dark. Something where you take a gritty political thriller that could take place in the real world and put it into fantasy.

One thing to point out... the middle age era that most fantasy takes place in was a much bleaker world. Even in dark fantasy the authors rarely make it as dark as life really was. Virtually no one bathed. The infant mortality rate was over 50%. The fairy tale Hanzel and Gredel is based on actual truth. When the famines hit in the 1300s, people abandoned some of their children since they could not feed them all.

The leaders of Europe were basically a military aristocracy. The kinds were military dictators. The vast majority of these nobles could not read. People were hacked to pieces in wars. The average lifespan was probably in the 30s.  Peasants rarely left the villages they were born in. Serfs were basically slaves that you did not have to feed yourself.
It was common for children to go to sleep hungry at night.

There was very little technological innovation. so the only way to get wealth was by oppressing others. The catholic church was corrupt. (this is not church bashing, this is what lead to the reformation).

I think its hard for people to realize the difference in lifestyle in a modern/western society from how most of people in most of history lived. Even today most people in the world do not have access to quality medical care.

I would point out that while those are all historical truisms, fantasy doesn't necessarily come from an historically accurate premise.  In the same way that gas powers an engine, nostalgia powers fantasy.

I think many followers of fantasy long for simpler times, and simpler morals.  That's not to say that they don't want a rousing adventure story.  It's just that even the most Byzantine of Court intrigues seems straight forward compared to our days seemingly unanswerable questions.  While I wouldn't make the argument of unabashed escapism -I do think there's something psychologically satisfying in a narrative with more definitive elements of good and evil.  This is especially precious in fantasy because of the obsession with moral ambiguity in other "non genre" areas.  I would make the argument that the the kind of stories in fantasy, Romance, Westerns and the like are the kinds of stories that have entranced audiences for the last two thousand years.

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Books / Re: Steam punk research reading list
« on: February 26, 2011, 12:24:00 AM »
"Steampunk" by Ann and Jeff Vandermeer was my starting point.  Not only does it have a wide selection of stories from across the sub-genre, but it puts the stories in the wider context of the development of Steampunk.

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Writing Group / Re: Fallen Fantasist
« on: February 23, 2011, 05:27:54 AM »
I don't think Grim's article should be taken entirely seriously.  Anyone who lumps Tolkien and Howard together obviously isn't too well acquainted with the finer (or even general) points of fantasy literature.  It's the responses it's getting which I find interesting.

The Black Gate put up am article  (link below) which gives a list of all the authors which have commented (for, against and neutral) on the issue.   It's pretty informative to see where authors see themselves on the spectrum of "traditional" to "real." 

http://www.blackgate.com/2011/02/20/the-decline-and-fall-of-bankrupt-nihilism/

I think the argument itself is pretty much a non sequitur.   The whole thing is subjective.  A matter of personal taste.  Grim's statement that these types of stories dominate fantasy is not supported by the evidence.

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Writing Group / Fallen Fantasist
« on: February 21, 2011, 08:36:06 PM »
There's been a debate going on around the web lately about fantasy, specifically the tendency toward less morally elevated characters and stories..  I thought I'd post some of the articles here and get some reactions.

It started with an article, "The Bankrupt Nihilism of Our Fallen Fantasist," by Leo Grin talks about the increase in nihilistic and gritty fantasy as opposed to the more traditional Sword and Sorcery of Robert E. Howard, and High Fantasy by Tolkien.  The article uses the works Joe Abercrombie as as its main example of this trend

http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/lgrin/2011/02/12/the-bankrupt-nihilism-of-our-fallen-fantasists/

Abercrombie replied, rather glibly I thought, on his blog.

http://www.joeabercrombie.com/2011/02/15/bankrupt-nihilism/

The Black Gate ran an interesting rebuttal to several remarks Ambercrombie made.

http://www.blackgate.com/2011/02/20/the-decline-and-fall-of-the-fantasy-novel/

I don't know if this is one of those things which is a lot of sound and fury, but I find the discussion intriguing.  As someone who enjoys the more traditional moral heroes (like Dresden) and more traditional stories where people are basically decent, and are distinct from the bad guys, I don't much like the more nihilistic fiction trend.  I have for a long time known that I had to avoid works that were more "real," or "gritty."  I'm not saying that there's no place for works like that, but they're not to my taste.

Frankly, I find the idea that works like Abercrombie now dominate fantasy (an idea expressed in the first article, the one that started it all) is absurd.  The more traditional fantasies are still the ones that sell.  There hundreds who want to be the next Jordan, or Sanderson or Butcher.  I don't know many people who want to be the next Abercrombie.  There might be a few who want to be the next George R.R. Martin, and that's a scary thought.  But I think that the former authors are popula,r and inspire emulators, not because they sell so well, but because there is a joy in reading that kind of fiction, and a joy in writing in that vein.

I've put this up a couple of places I know fantasy readers hang out.  I'm hoping to get an idea of what writers and readers alike think about the rends in fantasy today.
Anyway, that's my opinion.  What's yours?

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Writing Group / Re: Best. Word. Ever.
« on: January 10, 2011, 07:46:02 PM »
My favorite descriptive word is gelatinous.

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Books / Re: 2 ebooks cost more than hardcover books on amazon
« on: October 18, 2010, 10:36:16 PM »
"The skirmish over prices is possible because of deals that publishers negotiated with Amazon this year that allowed the publishers to set their own prices on e-books, while Amazon continues to choose the discount from the list price on hardcovers."
-NY Times article

The publishers had been threatening legal action because Kindle downloads were a flat 9.99.

I wonder if Amazon price pointed the hardbacks at just below the Kindle price to prove a point.
 

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Books / Re: So I'm reading A Feast for Crows...
« on: October 18, 2010, 09:23:52 PM »
On the plus side, they said at NYCC that Martin is on the last two chapters of A Dance of Dragons.  I can't find the link anymore, so here's what I wrote at the time.

http://daranthered.blogspot.com/2010/10/winter-is-coming-at-long-last.html

I promised myself a long time ago that I wouldn't read any more of the series until it was finished.  I was pretty lost when I started Feast.  I had to go back and reread the whole series.  I'd have to do that again, so I'm waiting.

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Books / Re: So I'm reading A Feast for Crows...
« on: October 16, 2010, 06:49:12 PM »
I honestly don't understand what people see in the series.  It's a good story, it's just not that remarkable.  A world where the seasons change slowly is as old as the pulp magazines.  The Dragon killed by the Lion to be threatened by the Wolf feels like a Middle-English poem to me.  The rest of the plot feels like a fantasy version of War and Peace.  I am a firm believer that his writing makes the series so compelling.

All but one character I liked remained alive after book two, and he's not even in a Feast for Crows.  Jon Snow has been beyond the Wall for over a decade!  By rights, the next time we see him, he should be thirty-five.

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Writing Group / Re: Magic-How can I...
« on: September 29, 2010, 02:40:43 AM »
Magic can be as flashy or as subtle as the creator wants it to be.  People tend to forget that the magic in The Lord fo the Rings is really rather subdued.  No fireballs or Magic Missiles at all.  Gandalf's magic usually manifested in a presence which inspired the good and frightened the bad.  The elves thought of their magic as nothing more than craftsmanship.  There are some exceptions, but the magic in the book isn't very overt.

the magic you see in Dungeons and Dragons books is sort of the opposite.  It's flashy, but also demystified to a degree I don't much care for.  Magic should be mysterious and a little scary, not something that can be learned sum total from a spell book.

The best breakdown of magic from a socio cultural perspective, at least from the point of the modern western fiction writer, is the Golden Bough, by Sir James Frazer.  Specifically Chapter 3, section 1,  "The Pricipals of Magic."

Which can be found on project Gutenberg here"

http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext03/bough11h.htm

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CCGs / Re: MTG: Old Cards?
« on: September 29, 2010, 02:13:35 AM »
My group still enjoys using the old cards from the original set.  And not all the old cards are at a disadvantage there are some cards that are rather over powered. 

http://wildgunmen.com/blog/2010/09/22/10-most-overpowered-old-school-magic-cards/

 Here's an that illustrates some of the best examples.  In sum, while there's been a lot of power creep there's also been a lot of mana-cost creep as well.

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Books / NPR's Summer Genre Reading List
« on: July 11, 2010, 12:33:41 PM »
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128273155&sc=nl&cc=bn-20100708

Has anyone read any of the books on this list?  Several of them look interesting.

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Books / Has Anyone Read the Wild Cards Series
« on: July 09, 2010, 03:23:34 AM »
I don't particularly like George R.R. Martin (the one exception being "The Armageddon Rag").  However, some writers I really like, Roger Zelazny for example, have written in the Wild Cards Universe.  I was wondering if it was worth getting into.

Anyone have an opinion?

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Books / Re: Sci-Fi authors
« on: July 09, 2010, 01:02:24 AM »
I'm a fairly Old School reader of SF.  As such, one of my favorites is Lester del Ray.  Contemporary with Heinlein, Asimov, Harlan Ellison and the like.  But his work isn't as well known.  his work is full of rocket ships and mysterious planets and generally just great.

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Books / Re: Are Star Wars books worth reading?
« on: July 09, 2010, 12:46:49 AM »
Star Wars books are a mixed lot.  Some are good, and some are bad.  A lot of the worst ones came after the movie prequels came out, when Lucas Arts started to exert more influence on the story lines.  This led to some decision making that many fans disagreed with. 

Timothy Zhan, Kevin J. Anderson, and Micheal Stackpole did some their best work in the Star Wars universe.  I really don't like anything of Anderson's outside of it, actually.  I would recommend them as a starting point.  You need the back story those provide to understand anything more recent anyway.  You can generally find the books very cheaply in used bookstores.  I see them all the time.

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