Timewaster's Guide Archive

Quote from: EvilNuff on October 16, 2010, 03:42:03 PM

Quote from: Andrew the Great on October 16, 2010, 07:26:24 AM

If the Oathstone works like compulsion...

It doesn't, see reply #33 in this thread from me.  There is ample evidence in the book that they are not compulsion.

You say true, I say thank you.
However, some folks (namely Erunion) tried to argue 'around' that fact.

Yup. I personally think it would be better storywise that Szeth is compelled only by his innate sense of honour.
But I like playing Devil's Advocate, it encourages discussion! 

Quote from: cromptj on October 14, 2010, 10:47:46 PM

Probably to balance out the material that was used to create the spren 1 giant one 1000s tiny of ones. Or maybe, following those people who measured spren, someone had defined it so that it stayed the same size and always appeared at the same time.

That's interesting. I wonder if a long time ago, some random fisherman made up a story about the bay (or just exaggerated a story), about a giant wave-like spren, and over the years, as people moved into the bay, and the details and story got fleshed out, the spren was locked into the same size and routine. Heck, maybe the fisherman saw a huge wave, and enough mystery and folklore got attached to the story a spren popped up.

I wonder how many spren got assigned to their object/force/emotion because people expected them to be tied to it, and so they "measured" it. Maybe that's why intoxicationspren are inconsistent. Whats-his-name hasn't worked everything out or spread the word.

Keep in mind, the Spren Studiers proved that you had to actually observe and measure the spren. Just writing down a random number didn't work. So at one point that superspren did all the actions that it does now, and someone wrote it down. And now it's stuck. 

Or at least, that's what he thinks. 
He could just be making up reasons for him wanting to obey, with his honour being the strongest. A similar concept can be found in WOT, where people who are compelled must make up reasons in their own heads to obey the orders, and that the most effective compulsion is telling you to do something that you already would do normally. In this case, Szeth could be "Compelled" to obey his oathstone, and as he considers it an "Honourable" thing to do, he does it and tells himself that his "honour" is prevailing.

Just a thought.

One thing that's been rumbling around in my head for a while now, is that Parshendi are voidbringers, but they aren't evil, or even Odium's servants. First off, the evidences. They behave in an honourable fashion towards their enemies, as can be seen throughout the book and throughout this thread. Secondly, Jasnah's references that she brought up seem to strongly indicate that the Parshendi are voidbringers.
But how is this possible?
Voidbringer = Bringer of the Void? One whom the void follows?
Perhaps the Parshendi bring the void by accident? Or, are chased by the void? Perhaps the parshendi "migrated" to Roshar, and are being chased by "the void", much like a predator following a migratory animal.
This would explain their behaviour in wanting to bring the Alethi  out to play war with them. Get the Alethi who have some twenty or so shardbearers into a position where they must fight "the void". Perhaps Taravangian understands this, and doesn't want Dalinar to unite the Alethi/crush the Parshendi because they need the Parshendi as allies in the upcoming war.

Very true. I think it likely that Shallan's Memories can take a snapshot of the Physical Realm (and physical perception), whereas the Almighty can take a snapshot of the cognitive realm as well, so he is able to recreate the cognitive aspects of the characters/beings, not just their physical aspects. This is then recorded into an incredibly detailed Matrix-esque* simulation, and sent to people's minds.

*Think the "Woman in the Red Dress" scene near the beginning of The Matrix. Actual humans are put into an interactive simulation with a script. The only real difference is that the Almighty's AI's are far more detailed and based on actual humans, now deceased. Neo and Morpheus's conversation could have gone dozens of ways, and each of them could have killed, or interacted with the AI's in dozens of different ways, as they were in a simulation.

From the "Horses" thread...

Here's a theory - Greatshell carapace strength (and by extension maximum phyiscal size) is determined by the capacity of the individual's gemheart (i.e. natural fabrial).

Thus, the spren that emerge from a dying greatshell escape the gemheart at the moment of death are the physical manifestation of the Shadesmar concept {improbably big crab thing that is alive and does not crush under its own weight}.  When the greatshell is alive, these spren are attracted to and trapped inside the gemheart.  The spren make it possible for their host to breathe Stormlight which not only solves the oxygen-CO2 exchange problem, but also allows for great feats of strength.  (We see similar effects as a result of Kaladin's bond with an honorspren.) This allows the greatshell to grow to Chasmfiend size. When the greatshell's connection to the cognitive realm is severed by death, the spren are no longer bound. Their departure leaves the gems inert and able to be cut by an autofabrian to target other varieties of spren.

Greatshells exist throughout Roshar (if I recall), but the ones in the Shattered Plains are particularly massive.  Something about the nature of spren or Highstorms in that region (perhaps as a result and/or cause of the final battle of the last Desolation) makes them able to grow much more effective gemhearts.

Chulls would have comparably smaller gemhearts compared to Greatshells, which explains their more docile nature.
At the other end of this growth spectrum would lie Thunderclasts, which have super-efficient gemhearts that can hold/metabolize Stormlight much more efficiently.

To go even further out on a limb... Parshendi would be parshmen that use gemhearts as natural fabrials to maintain a level of shared consciousness.  Their fabrials are tuned in pairs, much like spanreeds and are operated using vocal harmonics (i.e. songs) to evoke cymatic resonance.  At the far end of this spectrum, you get Voidbringers, which hold Stormlight perfectly and have all sorts of crazy powers.

Stormfather*, that's brilliant!
It says that the Chasmfiends pupate to await a highstorm. Perhaps they are awaiting a highstorm in order to recharge their gemheart? The shell they make would be in order to protect them, and the gemheart would give them strength to live for another year or so.
Or perhaps a charged gemheart give them... other abilities.

* I didn't think a terran oath was suitable for this Rosharian discovery... 

No, it was Natanatan.
Wasn't Urithiru out west somewhere?

Stormblessed, Dalinar gives Elhokar two sets of plate and blade captured from the parshendi. Elhokar gave them to the two warriors that were most worthy of the gear. This was likely a political move, to encourage unity in the warcamps and enhance the kingly image of Elhokar, the king being the one who provides honour and security to his subjects. The idea of giving gear to Renarin is a new one. Isn't Renarin 20? If so, he would have been 15 at the time that Dalinar gave out the gear. Add this to his "blood weakness" whatever that may be, and he would be, in the minds of most Alethi, clearly unsuited to bearing shards.
I think it's pretty clear from the text that Elhokar had his own shardblade/shardplate before the war. He was, after all, the king's son.
Think about this, Dalinar and Gavilar conquered all of Alethkar, "defeating their best shardbearers" and subduing their armies. They are likely to have captured several sets of plate and blade. Who better to receive the gear than the king's own son? Considering that he's nearly thirty by now, he would have been in his late teens/early twenties during his father's conquest, prime time to be given shards.
(Adolin's plate and blade are inherited though, right? That's what I seem to remember from his POV's)

It is likely that Elhokar already had plate/blade by the time of his father's death. He would certainly at least have had one or the other.

It seems that we have a few options for what happened to Gavilar's gear. First, the plate:
Sadaes has it,
Elhokar has it,
Or someone else took it.

Next the blade:
The Parshendi Shardbearer has it,
Shallan has it,
Someone else took it.


Of those, I think that Elhokar or Sadaes has the plate, and that the Parshendi Shardbearer has the blade. Their is, of course, one objection to the Parshendi having the blade; Dalinar would likely have recognized it. That then makes Shallan just as likely a candidate for holding the blade. Perhaps her father was in Alethkar as a traveling dignitary, and he was tipped off by the ghostbloods, followed Szeth and took the blade?