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Messages - Eri

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1) My guesses:
- it didn't happen (or it was rare and such women were killed for perversion or something), or
- the baby was killed (before or after birth)

3) Maybe he perceived it somehow? Not the metal, but the feruchemical charge.

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Ari54 - as Valkynphyre has noticed - black / white are patterns seen in books, grays are guesses. Light gray means "probably white", dark gray = "probably black". Sorry for not making it clearer. It was a late evening (in my timezone) when I posted it and I'm not good in explaining things in written text anyway.

On Feruchemic picture: whites are "roguish", black are "thuggish". Probably I should change the colors. I'm afraid I cannot explain how I decide which is which. Intuition, feeling?.. And the fact of English not being my home language doesn't help in explaining why.

Hemallurgy:
White is stealing metallic powers, black stealing mundane things. Again grays = guesses.
Why like this? It's not like Sudoku, more finding most symmetric pattern. We know the top half. But the pattern cannot be plain mirroring, because aluminium steals Allomancy, not duraluminium. So this butterfly-like pattern seems the simplest and most symmetric that it cam be, assuming that we need two in each group.
Why do I think it should be the most symmetric one? Well... simplicity, I guess.


One more thing: Feruchemy has a kind of 90 deg rotational symmetry:

Dynamic / roguish:
Speed: physical speed - mental speed - (we put position here, sort of time*time = space intuition) - (plot speed, so we put there the ability to give prophecies)
Some internal ability, but being a process, not a state (being strong is a state, healing or perceiving is more of a process): senses - wakefulness - healing - (emotions)

Static:
Some internal capacity: strength - memory - (maybe youth) - (air and nutrition)
Some physical constant: weight - warmth - (time, or rather time difference) - (light)

OK, now I can read [ b]Valkynphyre[/b]'s version and not feel affected by it... ;-)
The table is nice, and I would agree with electrum and bendalloy stealing metallic powers, if copper and zinc did it too. It would make a nice rotational symmetry. But they don't.
I disagree with the idea of stealing or storing beauty - it's too subjective trait. And can't pain be stored in a tinmind? Anyway I see that we have much similarities, so we're probably both close. Your guesses are overall less weird, so probably more correct.

About the image: it's not photoshoped from poster, I made it myself on Inkscape. If anyone wants a clear table (no colors, just metal signs) to use, I can post one too, in any size or in .svg (vector format).

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("our" refers to me and my husband.)

I didn't want to post it in Valkynphyre's topic with my long post, it could cause confusion.

First - some symmetries. We all know than in Allomancy there are Pushing/Pulling and Inner/Outer metals.
In Feruchemy some of officially explained metals seem to store very static and simple things, like strength, memory, warmth. Some store more dynamic or subtle things, like speed (both), wakefulness and senses. Rogue-like things instead of paladin-like things. It's a bit intuitive. But it makes a pattern, so we can guess more of it:


In Hemalurgy the metals stealing Allomantic and Feruchemical powers also seem to have a pattern:


So together we get something like:


Yes, I have added two divine?/weird/whatever metals from the mysterious glyphs in the book. Look at the numbers of spikes in them and you will see, why do I think that they fit there.

So we can divide metals in each group (Physical, Mental, Enhancement and Temporal)
- by Allomancy: Internal (cognitive?) - (probably only) two (pulling metal and pushing alloy(s?)), External - the same, Divine (spiritual?)  - base metal and probably many alloys
- by Feruchemy - two dynamic (Internal alloy and external metal), two static + divine
- by Hemalurgy - one stealing appropriate Allomantic skill, one for Feruchemy and two for stealing more mundane things.

Of course, they can do more than we know.

Based on this division, our Hemalurgic hypothesis is:
Chromium - of course Feruchemical Enhancement
(Aluminium is already said to steal Allomantic)
Nicrosil - skills (skills are something you can learn by training, as opposed to knowledge). We choose to interpret "enhancement" not as "buff to magic" but more as something you can improve. Things you can learn.
Duraluminium - knowledge (meaning "things you can learn from a book") and memory

Gold - Feruchemical Temporal storage.
Cadmium - Temporal Allomancy. (These two guesses are well supported by symmetry)
Electrum - youth.
NotCerrobend - health (as stored in Feruchemy - ability to heal oneself).

And hypothesis on Feruchemy (more guessing here):
Again, we've tried not do it  like "enhancement=metamagic". Just put some cool, weird things here in a way that feels OK with all the patterns.

Chromium - insight. Filled by solving mysteries of life and philosophy. And understanding higher truths, in general. Makes you forget them. And you can't even write down, because you won't understand later. What good comes from reading things like "Be at peace with your inner self" when you don't remember what you meant?
Yes, this explanation looks complicated, but I can't do better.
Tapping it... I guess it can give you prophetic visions.

Aluminium - air, not being hungry or thirsty... Chemical needs, in general

Nicrosil - light. When you are filling it, you get darker, up to pitch black. When you tap it, you get brighter and, later, start glowing.
Main reasons for that guess:
- weight and warmth are physical constants, and this one should be similar.
- they both are useful in both ways - filling and tapping, in contrast to other metalminds, which are nice only to tap.
- the possibility to store light and color will give so very cool possibilities of Warbreaker crossovers. :D

Duraluminium  - emotions maybe? Happiness? It would be nice.

With Temporal metals Feruchemy gets even weirder.
(Gold - we know from the book - it's health. Or rather healing.)
Cadmium - perception time shift. You fill it by having you whole perception moved back in time by some amount - you see, hear etc. things that have already happened (could be useful too). By tapping it, you can see the future. Cool in books, would be terrible in an RPG. Maybe some limitation can be added to it.

Electrum - youth, pretty please? You can't get immortal without Allomancy, so it's not powerful enough for atium, in my opinion. Atium has already been kicked out of the table, so maybe electrum can get youth storing and atium something more instead?
And it'll make a nice pattern: tin steals and stores the same thing (senses). Pewter stores what iron steals (strength). Mirror in / axis: Notcerrobend steals what gold stores (health), electrum stores and steals the same thing (youth).

NotCerrobend -  being somewhere. Filling: your time perception distorts. You feel as you're sitting here for five minutes only, but it's been over an hour. So you have an hour of "being in this room" in your Electumind. Now you go adventuring and do captured by enemies, or some other distaster happens. So you use your metalmind and get something-like-teleported to said room. You have an hour to ask for help, give valuable information etc. During this hour you aren't in the prison or wherever else you've been (no bilocation). When you end using the metalmind, you appear there.

We still have no idea what do the divine metals do. Atium = universal Hemalurgy, Larasium = boosted Allomancy... but what else?

Any ideas or comments?

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Brandon Sanderson / Re: Warbreaker
« on: July 16, 2009, 07:11:26 PM »
I've read  it, and I'll likely buy it when it's translated to Polish. Depends on the price and quality of translation. Buying English version depends on shipping costs. Anyway I'm going to show my support somehow. If both options fail, it can be Paypal.
If more artists start to publish some of their work on Commons licences, it will be great.

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Site News / Re: Introduce yourself - right on!
« on: July 16, 2009, 06:59:59 PM »
Hi. (Sorry, I've just found this topic. I should have read the FAQ, but I got distracted by Hoid. And other topics here. )

My name is Katarzyna, but friends often call me Eri, which is a nice and short nickname. No, it's not related to my name. It's a shortening of Erina - a nickname I choose after my first RPG character. I gave her a name made from some random string of letters that sounded nice. We didn't even finish that session, but I liked the name anyway.
You can also call me Kate, or some other translation.

I live in Poland (and I am unfortunately the Her... not so fluent in English as I would like to), I'm 26, and married. :-) We both like Brandon Sanderson's books, so my husband will probably register here too, sometime.
I have studied mathematics,... don't know what to add. Hobbies and areas of interest: computer programming, graphics, roleplaying games, reading of course (mostly sf/f). Oh, and I like crocheting, too. :D

I've heard about Brandon Sanderson from a friend, who is waiting for last WoT book (I have stopped following the series some years ago, it got too long for me). I've read Mistborn trilogy and Warbreaker, both are great.

I don't remember how I found this forum, I think my husband showed me.

(PS: in case You want to know - neither LDS nor, of course, BYU. Roman Catholic and Warsaw University.)

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Brandon Sanderson / Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« on: July 16, 2009, 05:34:32 PM »
Thank you for your explanation. So the kings have had children... interesting.

I thought Hatshin was a name of place. "The Pits of Hatshin" like "the city of Paris". Maybe i got suggested by the Polish translation. And Edgli seems like a person or people.

Clod wasn't IMO much more an abomination than Phantoms. Animating corpses of people you knew isn't much more vile than of people you didn't know. Or... wait. If Arsteel have been a Returned and after he'd died his body was used to make a Lifeless, Vasher could consider it an abomination, for some reason.

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Yes. And still there are things he does not know. And with Allomancy - Preservation he sounds a bit like guessing, not knowing. I'm not sure if Metallic Arts were created by P&R or did they just emerge somehow. And if the latter option is true, it is possible that Saze does not know everything about them.

Of course, you are probably right. I'm just hypothesising.

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Great series!
And great suprises, the less suprising twists too.

The ending is as it should be, even a bit too picturesque-happy-ending like for me (I mean their bodies on the flowerfield, Saze mentioning talking with them in the afterlife... twice... a bit too much.). I'm absolutely OK with Vin and Elend dead and really happy that others survived.
But Sazed was my favorite character, so I may be biased.

Kandra are cool, I want more of TenSoon and MeLaan in the sequel (hope they are still immortal?). They will make a cute couple.
Marsh - I also want him in the sequel. Especially because of his numerous misfortunes in Mistborn (his brother got the girl, she died for him, he fulfilled her dream, Marsh became a mind-controlled monster and couldn't help it, got kicked by Vin, kicked by Elend, spared by Elend... and left like that. Sucks to be him.). And because of his cool Hemalurgic powers, too. :D

One of my big theories: contrary to what Sazed said, I still think that Feruchemy is of Preservation, and Allomancy of both. Why?

First - Preservation is not creation. It's keeping things as they are. That is why he needed to cooperate with Ruin to create. So Allomancy (positive balance) is of creation, therefore of both powers. Of Preservation is Feruchemy, which does exactly that - keeps things. Doesn't increase power, doesn't decrease power... just keeps things as they are.

Second, psychological, argument. The kandra claim to be of Preservation. The (modern) Terrismen, with similar attitude (very Conservative and lawful) are, in my opinion, also connected with Preservation. Both ancient and modern Terrisians are Feruchemists. Well, not all of them, but it's their national Metallic Art.
Allomancers tend to be much more dynamic and brutal, partially because their powers are more combat-oriented.

Allomancy is bestowed by larasium, true (however, there have been some Mistings before Ascension, not necessary because their great-...-great grandpas had used larasium). But it's mostly used to kill things, so it kind of balances itself.

Another reason - Snapping. If Allomancy was of Preservation, why would it need an extreme pain to awake? I don't know how Feruchemy first manifests, but from no mention of it in the books I guess it's rather peaceful.
OK - Preservation did Snap people (he was mad, however) so he may not be as nice as the name suggests.

However - the mist "liking" Allomancy and (probably) not reacting to Feruchemy is hard to explain with this hypothesis.  And probably somewhere on the forum it is officially said that Saze was right...

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Brandon Sanderson / Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« on: July 16, 2009, 01:45:01 PM »
I hope I don't have to read all 57 pages before posting?
pirsquared, I like your theory about Returning=Awakening and Commanding oneself. Or being A&C-ed by some higher force, maybe?

Some things I want to mention:
Really good book. Not as great as Mistborn, but still very good.

I wonder why the high priest was so rude to Siri. I just don't understand that guy. I don't understand most of their religion. They could let the God King grow with his adopted family and be happy for some more time. Explain things to him. Not "how to Awaken things and become powerful", but simple things, like family matters and such.

I agree that the idea of Siri going to be raped by a tyrant is very disturbing. Yup, she does not but we don't know that in advance.
It's more disturbing because it's unnecessary, even from in-world point of view. If the priests could claim that Siri is pregnant than why couldn't they just put her into Susebron's room and claim that they have had sex? Or maybe that is what they wanted, but Bluefingers told her to undress and kneel just to scare her more?
Well, the priests could go even further and claim that she'll automagically get pregnant by king somehow using his BioChroma on her and then give birth in much shorter time than normal. She wouldn't have to touch him and they will be able to present the child they found as new king sooner. Anyway why did they want to have a new king as soon as possible? I guess that again half of what I think about it is wrong, and than there will be more about it in next book(s?).

I wonder if the fact that the marriage have been consumed is as unimportant as it seems. Maybe (because of Siri being from royal family or some other odd circumstances) they will have a child anyway.

Mercenaries being evil was a bit easy to guess - after Mistborn I am quite paranoid on important characters not having their PoV chapters. But the scene in cellar (dead Parlin and animals) was great and shocking. Probably the best scene in whole book, in my opinion.

BioChroma... is it just me, or does it looks a bit futuristic? More like some cybertechnology than magic. Maybe it's not magic, in fact.
Maybe it would look better as Biochroma, without second capital.

I wonder why did they bring only(?) children to give their Breaths to Lightsong. Is it because he died saving a child? Or do children deal more easily with losing it? Are their Breaths stronger? Or is it just because most of poor people were already Drabs, because their parents have sold their Breaths and so it went... ?

(petitions, s 125/126)
Quote
   “Please, Great One,” the woman said. She sniffled, then bowed her head.
“Oh, please. He was brave, like you. My Breath, it would be yours. The
Breaths of my entire family. Service for a hundred years, anything. Please, just
heal him.”
Why is she offering Lightsong these things? Doesn't she know that he would have to die to help her child? Or does she promise Breath and service to the Court of Gods in general or to his successor (the next deity of bravery, or something like that)?

Quote
It’s Tax, all right. Goes by a different name now.”
Denth nodded. “Vasher. He’s used it for a while. It’s a joke on his part.”
I hope the joke will be explained someday, because I don't get it.

Site 314/315:
Quote
    Vasher stood openly atop the building. He didn’t really care who saw him.
He rarely did. An endless flow of people passed on the colorful street.
VaraTreledees—Denth, as he called himself now—walked among them with
his team. The woman, Jewels. Tonk Fah, as always. The clueless princess. And
the abomination.
?!
Why does Vasher consider Lifeless an abomination? Or is it some different kind of Lifeless? Or a mistake?..

Clod being Arsteel... there may be more to it than just "they animated their old friend's corpse to make a bodyguard construct". I think he still has have some important role to play.

I wonder who Egdli was/is.

BTW - is there a way to buy Mistborn or other books as PDFs? It would make searching for metaplot elements (like Hoid) easier...

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Hi everybody.

First thing - I am new on this forum so I wanted to introduce myself. I'm from Poland (so sorry for my not-so-good English), I've heard about Brandon Sanderson from a friend of mine. At first when I've heard about people gaining super powers from eating metals I laughted.
I am so sorry now. I apologize.
The Mistborn trilogy is way, way better that it sounds.

Warbreaker too. I mean, it can be advertised like: "In a world of monochrome zombies, returned from the dead hedonists worshiped as deities, and epic fantasy, a rebellious princess with color-changing hair is sent to marry a rainbow-sparkling undead tyrant and bear him an heir... "
Not to mention a sociopathic intelligent sword created to destroy evil and a patron deity of courage not believing in his own religion.
And the weirdest thing is that it makes a very good book.

(Yes, I read too much of that wiki. :D )

I need to read more of them.

Back to the topic:
- Warbreaker PDF, p 39 (39 in pdf, 38 in numeration) - is "!!" a proper punctuation mark? Maybe in English it is, I don't know, but I think that single or triple exclamation mark looks better.
(I assume that Vivienna starting to say "Colors!" instead of "Austre!" is a part of her cultural adaptation, not a typo?)
- In Mistborn (the first book) I've seen Shan Elariel as "Earlier", but I don't have a pdf to search for it. I've seen it in translated version, so I don't know if it is in original too.

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