A lot of people describe Scalzi’s Old Man's War novels as military science fiction, but I would classify its sequel Zoë’s Tale as a space opera. It’s a story about, well, Zoë, a teenage girl whose parents are invited to take leadership roles in building a colony on a new planet. Zoë is an enthusiastic member of the group sent to colonize Roanoke, despite the risks—and the risks are considerable even before the political machinations of greater powers boil to the surface. Continue reading Zoë’s Tale
Review by Silk
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400 and 600 pages into the final book of a trilogy may require reminders if there's something important to upcoming scenes in that book that hasn't been mentioned before in that book. I think the reminders are helpful.
I told you, 261-265 is part of the same scene and a continuation of the same thought with a different focus. If you can't tell that, you're not a very careful reader.
There are a lot of reminders because there are a lot of different things to remind about. Nevertheless your feedback has been noted.
Malazan is not accessible to a lot of people. There are already other threads discussing this about Malazan on the Books forum here. If some people like it, that's great for them. Malazan has a number of dedicated fans, but he might have more if the books were a bit more accessible.
shadow, I haven't yet looked at the pages you cited, but will tomorrow. However, you may not be aware that it's industry standard practice to repeat things from previous books to get people up to speed. Brandon might have preferred the summaries to be put at the beginning instead of the end, but Tor would not allow that. It's considered very bad form to require people to read a summary at the beginning—you're supposed to sprinkle the catchup info throughout the book instead, as Brandon has done.
You're off the mark if you're saying he shouldn't repeat things from previous books. Your wish will not be granted, because Brandon HAS to repeat things from previous books. That is the way the publishing world works. What your real complaint should be is that you don't like the WAY he repeated info from previous books, not that he did it at all. The repeated information knocked you out of the story—that's a valid criticism. Perhaps Brandon needs to work on making his catchup information more seamless. Most readers haven't minded it at all, but if there are enough readers like you who do mind it, then it could use some improvement. The same goes for any information repeated within a book. None of it is filler—it's required for plot and rhetorical reasons. If there are enough people like you who are bugged by it, maybe Brandon needs to work on making it more seamless.
Doing it in the first 20 pages is understandable. 500 pages into the 3rd book is not. Repeating the same info within 2 pages of each other is not. I've read many books and I have NEVER seen anything like what was in these...
Ah. So you really did come here to criticize them. Wow.
shadow, I haven't yet looked at the pages you cited, but will tomorrow. However, you may not be aware that it's industry standard practice to repeat things from previous books to get people up to speed. Brandon might have preferred the summaries to be put at the beginning instead of the end, but Tor would not allow that. It's considered very bad form to require people to read a summary at the beginning—you're supposed to sprinkle the catchup info throughout the book instead, as Brandon has done.
You're off the mark if you're saying he shouldn't repeat things from previous books. Your wish will not be granted, because Brandon HAS to repeat things from previous books. That is the way the publishing world works. What your real complaint should be is that you don't like the WAY he repeated info from previous books, not that he did it at all. The repeated information knocked you out of the story—that's a valid criticism. Perhaps Brandon needs to work on making his catchup information more seamless. Most readers haven't minded it at all, but if there are enough readers like you who do mind it, then it could use some improvement. The same goes for any information repeated within a book. None of it is filler—it's required for plot and rhetorical reasons. If there are enough people like you who are bugged by it, maybe Brandon needs to work on making it more seamless.
Huh? I never said anything about Warbreaker in this thread.
Yeah...that was me...
And shadow, just wait for Nightblood, then...It's the sequel to Warbreaker. I still heartily recommend it, even if it's a stand-alone. Fantastic book. Same with Elantris.
I might just take you up on your offer shadow, but later, when I don't have schoolwork to do.
You know, with how defensive you're getting about this, it doesn't seem like you're a fan of the books at all. You say you like them, but other than those first 64 words, you spend the next 355 bashing them. About very minor problems.
Yes, I understand that you're giving feedback, but keep in mind how minor these problems are, and Mistborn is at the beginning of Brandon's writing career. Go take a look at Warbreaker, and if you see the same problems to the same degree then you might have something to say. But until then....I just think you're beating a dead horse.
Understood, but as I have said multiple times, I gave plenty of compliments at the beginning of the post.
No, you didn't. One sentence of "this was good" followed by paragraphs of "this was bad", does not a balanced review make. Also, each book is a discrete unit, with its own pros and cons. When you didn't repeat the compliments for WoA and HoA it implied that they didn't have those positive things.
Basically, your review makes it seem like WoA and HoA are nothing but boring exposition fests when they aren't.
Also, I didn't find any of the reminders boring or out of place. IIRC, most of the reminders about Kelsier had to do with expanding upon the religion that had formed around him. When Vin notices the Spear necklace and wonders if it's meant to represent the spear the Lord Ruler used on Kelsier or the one she used on the Lord Ruler, it is perfectly natural and flows excellently with the story. I recall most of your other examples being similarly well placed in the narrative, although I'd have to check to make sure.
Brandon's podcast, Writing Excuses, has an episode about writing groups and critiquing. In it, he and his co-hosts agree that critiques that contain only criticism are only marginally useful, as well as being hard on an author's fragile ego.
A manufacturer is glad to have succinct reviews of how their product has failed or not met expectations. The designer of that product would not appreciate a random person that got hold of the blueprints telling them without preamble why the product will not work. If you have enough credentials, they will take your advice. If you don't, they will be offended.
The bottom line is that everyone likes to be complemented, and unless you're talking to a very good friend you have to butter people up before criticizing them if you don't want them to get indignant on you. Even then, if you value your friendship you'll probably soften the blow a bit. Use courtesy, politeness, and civility. Even (especially) in text. I'm not saying that your review should be 4/5 praise if that's the rating you gave. A little bit goes a long way, and people usually assume that anyone who starts out by complementing them is alright. But you know all of this already. Carry on.
Eh. I tried. I think the OP is overreacting, but don't think it's worth the effort to continue the discussion.
Thank you.
I couldn't find the second one, but I found the first on page 94 of the hardcover. If you give any more text references, please include the chapter number and approximate location within the chapter (this one's on page 3 of chapter 12, in case anyone else wants to look it up).
Remember that Brandon has to include enough reminders for the people who haven't read the previous book in the last year. Also, foreshadowing has to be sufficient in order for revelations to have enough support when they eventually come out.
A writer cannot please everyone all the time. The end of HoA took a lot of balancing on Brandon's part. If he had gone too far in one direction a lot of a certain type of reader would have hated it. If he had gone too far in a different direction many of those readers would have been pleased but a lot of a different type of reader would have hated it. Instead, by and large the majority of readers were pleased with the ending and that's about the best Brandon could have hoped for.
I would just like to point out one thing (and will more then likely not reply past this, be warned.) Yes, he repeates things, but so do we. I mean, I go to work every day and think "I hope I can keep on track today." And if you were reading my life from day to day, you might find it annoying, but it's true. I read through my journals (just went into my seventh, spanning from when I turned 14 to yesterday (I turned 22 on thursday) so quite a few years) and I repeate the same themes over and over -- "I hope I find someone to love", "I'm annoyed with X (or Y, or Z person)", "This happened at work", "I had this dream". They are all the same thing when you put it like that, and while they might be boring they are basically my life.
So yes, it might be repetitive, but that's because that's how life is. And if nothing else you want your characters to be as real to life as you can, that way your readers can connect with them and can believe what they do.
