Timewaster's Guide Archive

Local Authors => Brandon Sanderson => Topic started by: Adrienne on June 15, 2011, 05:33:58 PM

Title: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch3)
Post by: Adrienne on June 15, 2011, 05:33:58 PM
http://www.tor.com/stories/2011/06/the-alloy-of-law-excerpt


I'm reading now, can't wait for all 6 to come out!
Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt 1
Post by: kari-no-sugata on June 15, 2011, 06:08:23 PM
Mmm-mm. Interesting. Gripping. Fascinating.

Good read.
Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt 1
Post by: Adrienne on June 15, 2011, 06:34:12 PM
Corrections needed:

koloss to Koloss
well tailored to well-tailored (I believe)
eyeblink to eye blink
witout to without
realy to really
firepit to fire pit
re-inforcing to reinforcing
adit to adrift (I think that's what he was going for there)
judg- ing to judging


I did giggle a little when I saw the liquid is now whiskey - at least for Wax. It was nice to see the history come into play when Tan mentioned the survivor. The foreshadowing from Sazed was there for this religion. Hopefully with 5 more excerpts planned and 5 more months to release we'll get a little taste regularly.
Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt 1
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on June 15, 2011, 06:44:30 PM
adit, eyeblink, koloss, and well tailored are correct usages, and firepit is not a dictionary word but I'm calling it good. It has a 25% usage rate on an exclusionary Google search, which for me puts it into secondary usage status rather than typo.
Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt 1
Post by: Adrienne on June 15, 2011, 06:52:28 PM
Isn't Koloss a type of "people"? Like American's are capitalized? 

When I placed the in word those were the misspellings that came up with automatically. Adit's a new one for me - thanks for pointing it out :)

Firepit always comes up as misspelled. I've been writing a friend back and forth about one I want and the bright red underline gets to me. Even when I pop it in google it' separates it.

I do see with Eyeblink some places accept it and others dont. Your judgement has always worked for me in the past! :)

Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt 1
Post by: WriterDan on June 15, 2011, 07:08:52 PM
My rule of thumb with these early book-nuggets is to avoid them.  I know there are lots of people that like to get content like this, but when I finally do get to read a book that I've already read excerpts of, I find that I get annoyed pretty easily.  So yeah.

That being said, I read the first little bit of this one, and it's pretty status quo Brandon.  The explanatory bits of the magic system were a minor annoyance for me.  Guess I don't want things explained and would just like to see them in action.  I get the whole "what-else-do-you-do-for-a-stand-alone-book-with-an-already-established-world/magic-system" bit, but still.  Will be interesting to see this one in full.
Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt 1
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on June 15, 2011, 07:31:08 PM
Don't trust Word's dictionary. It accepts "prophesize" as a correct word, for pete's sake. Check m-w.com when you're checking spelling officially. That is the industry standard dictionary.

If you Google search for firepit -"fire pit" there are almost 8 million hits and searching for -firepit "fire pit" gives 26 million hits. Actual typos are at a less than 10% ratio, usually less than 1%.

I didn't know the word adit either but Brandon originally had shaft there, which is totally wrong.

We don't capitalize human or human being, so we don't capitalize koloss or kandra or elves or dwarves.
Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt 1
Post by: Adrienne on June 15, 2011, 07:59:43 PM
I think it's a sign of good writing to toss in words people don't know or see often.

I guess I think of koloss as a type of people since they started human. I can see the point. That makes think of them more as another type of evil like Tolkien's orcs.

m-w.com accepts prophesize  :o

I'll keep that in mind if I pick anything out in the future. I care more about the content than if it's written to the highest standards of proper English.
Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt 1
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on June 15, 2011, 08:29:44 PM
only as a variant, and not as a main-entry variant either. Still, it makes me shiver.
Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt 1
Post by: zas678 on June 15, 2011, 08:32:16 PM
I guess I think of koloss as a type of people since they started human. I can see the point. That makes think of them more as another type of evil like Tolkien's orcs.

Except they aren't anymore (If I remember correctly from the HoA Q&A). They breed true now, without a need for Heamlurgical spikes from humans.
Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt 1
Post by: CabbyHat on June 15, 2011, 08:49:57 PM
This was really cool to see. I loved the tantalizing glimpses of what the world's become; especially how the events of the Mistborn trilogy have been worked into religion and folklore. I can't wait to see more of that kind of thing. This'll definitely help keep me going until the book comes out. :D
Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt 1
Post by: Stormblessed on June 16, 2011, 12:29:58 AM
I agree, having the names of our heroes as the names of the new noble houses, or cities was cool.

I'm assuming Harmony is Sazed ascended.

The Devil with nails in their eyes? Inquisitor? Did Tan actually see one, or is he just crazy.

And I love the clan of klossos bringing prosperity to the area. Have they changed from their bloodthirsty ways now that Ruin is no more?
Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt 1
Post by: prehistoricman on June 16, 2011, 12:53:04 AM
I'm assuming Harmony is Sazed ascended.

I think Brandon may have said this somewhere.

The Devil with nails in their eyes? Inquisitor? Did Tan actually see one, or is he just crazy.

Marsh is still alive.
Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt 1
Post by: Stormblessed on June 16, 2011, 01:05:52 AM
The Devil with nails in their eyes? Inquisitor? Did Tan actually see one, or is he just crazy.

Marsh is still alive.

Considering that Ruin is no longer around to control Marsh, I wonder if Marsh has been sent mad from having ruin in his mind, and so many spikes in his body. Or maybe Marsh isn't that evil, but because of the spikes in his eyes, Tan just thought he was the Devil. Maybe in an attempt to divert our attention from the real villain...
Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt 1
Post by: dhalagirl on June 16, 2011, 04:27:50 PM
I loved the excerpt!  I can't wait for the rest!
Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt 1
Post by: CabbyHat on June 16, 2011, 09:45:13 PM
The Devil with nails in their eyes? Inquisitor? Did Tan actually see one, or is he just crazy.

Marsh is still alive.
Quote

Considering that Ruin is no longer around to control Marsh, I wonder if Marsh has been sent mad from having ruin in his mind, and so many spikes in his body. Or maybe Marsh isn't that evil, but because of the spikes in his eyes, Tan just thought he was the Devil. Maybe in an attempt to divert our attention from the real villain...

I don't think it's unlikely that people who've heard stories about Inquisitors would be scared of Marsh before he ever did anything. That's one of the things I'm most looking forward to learning more about.
Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt 1
Post by: Inkthinker on June 16, 2011, 10:14:17 PM
Sooo... are they actually taking this all the way to Chapter 6? That's a lot of story.
Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt 1
Post by: Adrienne on June 17, 2011, 04:02:16 AM
Quote
hey will put up five more chapters before the release date, which means that the preview is going to be about a third of the book.

From the latest blog post  :)
Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt 1
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on June 17, 2011, 07:06:52 AM
Sooo... are they actually taking this all the way to Chapter 6? That's a lot of story.
It is, but where else would you stop? Not after the prologue, or it looks like a Western. Could maybe stop after chapter 2, but then they can't hype it much. If you go beyond chapter 2, you can't stop until after 6. :)
Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt 1
Post by: Inkthinker on June 17, 2011, 09:43:09 AM
Nope, fair point. And there's a lot of awesome beyond that, so it's not like they're giving it all away. It's not quite a full third.

Plus, I think from 1-5 you get a nice sampling of just about everything-- characterizations, action, humor-- by the time the book hits the shelves, readers will definitely know if it's their kind of read or not.

I guess the serialization to release model isn't all that unusual when I think about it. Lucky bit of business for the fans.
Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt 1
Post by: Stormblessed on June 17, 2011, 09:58:44 AM
It would well and truly ensnare anyone who had never read a Sanderson book, and just came across the excerpt.
Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt 1
Post by: Squallor on June 17, 2011, 01:46:38 PM
Quote
Marsh is still alive.

Has it been confirmed that Marsh is still alive? I know that Brandon said after HoA that Marsh has the same immortality trick as the LR, however, you need a fairly consistent supply of atium in order to keep it going unless I am mistaken. Didn't Brandon say also that there is no atium left until the geodes reform in a few hundred years?
Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt 1
Post by: Jason R. Peters on June 17, 2011, 02:35:27 PM
Will a Kindle version of this and other previews be made available?

I realize I'm spoiled, but I do hate reading from a computer screen, and laser printer ink is triply precious to aspiring writers as to general consumers.
Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt 1
Post by: Adrienne on June 17, 2011, 03:28:11 PM
I copied the words by highlighting them and right clicking and selecting copy. I then opened up a word document. I right clicked again and hit paste. I saved the document as an RTF.

I then opened Calibre http://calibre-ebook.com/. Then I dragged the document into the program. Then I hit convert book. It's normal option is to convert to .mobi which the kindle reads well.

I plugged my kindle into my computer and put the converted file on my kindle.

If it's ok with Peter I can send you that copy. I'll do it for myself for all the freebie chapters.
Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt 1
Post by: Jason R. Peters on June 17, 2011, 04:00:34 PM
Thanks, Adrienne. If calibre is free, I don't mind doing this myself; I could also use MS word and email my Kindle address for a tiny fee too (but I'm very cheap, and I wasn't sure if this is some weird copyright violation if Tor didn't intend

I figured this question was also worth posting for the (potentially ignored) marketing opportunity. I can't speak for others, but often I browse kindle books and articles just for free content even if I've never heard of the author...it's far more convenient than driving out to the bookstore, and if I like a sample portion, I'll buy the whole kit'n'kaboodle. Obviously Brandon's other books are available for ereading (with samples available), so I just thought doing this with the previews would also be a nice touch. It's probably up to Tor rather than Brandon, though?
Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt 1
Post by: Adrienne on June 17, 2011, 04:22:17 PM
For some reason I've had issues with converting .doc or .docx with calibre. I haven't looked into it much as I only received my kindle Wednesday night. Supposedly the kindle 3 will accept MOBI CBZ, CBR, CBC, CHM, EPUB, FB2, HTML, LIT, LRF, ODT, PDF, PRC, PDB, PML, RB, RTF, TCR, TXT. I tried some of my person documents that the kindle said they accepted but the formatting was wrong. The letters were tiny and things just looked odd. When you convert it standardizes things so they look great.

I wouldn't pay for the Amazon to send me anything. I just use the plug in my USB port. If you have a PC it will look like a normal USB drive when you open "my computer". From there you can just drop it into the document folder.

The last book I read was the hardback copy of TWoTK. The weight of it prompted me to look into the kindle.

Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt 1
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on June 17, 2011, 10:07:20 PM
I don't know if they have any plans to release the previews on Kindle, though eventually the book will have its own Kindle preview.
Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt 1
Post by: luminos on June 18, 2011, 11:16:03 AM
Sooo... are they actually taking this all the way to Chapter 6? That's a lot of story.
It is, but where else would you stop? Not after the prologue, or it looks like a Western.

It's a shame it's not a Western, because if the Prologue is any indication, Mr. Sanderson could write a killer of a Western.
Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt 1
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on June 18, 2011, 07:09:22 PM
The market for Westerns completely died in the 80s. It wouldn't be a particularly wise move. But still there are some quite Western aspects to this novel, one of the mid-to-late chapters in particular. It's pretty awesome.
Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt 1
Post by: Inkthinker on June 19, 2011, 12:36:11 AM
The best westerns I've read recently were by Robert Parker, who is more famously known for his crime/detective novels (the Spenser series in particular). Sadly, since Parker passed away earlier this year, I expect they'll be the last westerns I read from him.

He wrote Appaloosa, which was made into a film starring Viggo Mortenson and Ed Harris... I liked the movie a great deal, and bought the novel to see if it matched up, and it turned out that the movie was pretty much a straight adaptation of the book. There's four more in the series, and they're all quite good, it was exactly the sort of western story I was looking for... much as I like my fantasy, Parker's westerns were character-driven, dirty, uncomplicated, and brutally violent. Kind of what Joe Abercrombie might do with a western. Not quite as bleak as Cormac McCarthy, but definitely not a high-fantasy type of western, either.

Alloy of Law is a nice blend. Brandon's not really doing  steampunk (cover notwithstanding), nor is it exactly a western or a straight fantasy novel... it's somewhere in-between all that, and it's unique, and I think people (especially Mistborn fans) will dig it.
Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt 1
Post by: hubay on June 19, 2011, 03:21:40 AM
I thought I saw a blog post by Joe Abercrombie saying he was researching westerns for his next project; pretty excited about that.

I'm betting at some point in the novel Wax's decision to skim his weight non-stop will come back to bite him in the but. It might make him quicker, but it also means his muscles don't get a lot of exercise – including his heart. if he gets older that might mean his loses his strength quickly, and I foresee a scene where he loses his feruchemical bands and has to struggle moving around because he's not used to being normal-weighted.
Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt 1
Post by: ulysses sword on June 22, 2011, 08:21:51 AM
Very good introduction to the story.  Some things I noticed in the prologue:

Steel jacketed bullets seem like a bad idea.  The hard metal quickly degrades the gun's barrel, which is why steel cored bullets (jacketed with copper, and possibly lead) are used instead.
When going down the hole, Wax drops a bullet to support his weight.  This should probably be a cartridge (bullet, case, powder, and primer all together) unless he carried loose bullets to be used in the same way Mistborn used coins.
Wax cocks his gun twice inside of the mine, without him uncocking it (that we are told of).  Once was just before seeing the first display, then again at the end.


Also, an idea: would Marsh require atium to survive (being younger) or could he just use gold, and just be very healthy for 350 years old?
Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt 1
Post by: rcfleming on June 22, 2011, 03:00:44 PM
http://www.timewastersguide.com/forum/index.php?topic=6655.msg129104#msg129104

Point two. Granting this info is . . . a little old . . . but! It also implies that in the next series, Marsh will be there! Of course this may have changed and Marsh might only be in Alloy of Law . . . if he makes an appearance.

The health storing/burning probably could extend your life a bit, but even being sick for a little while at 350 might kill you  :D
Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt 1
Post by: douglas on June 22, 2011, 03:34:59 PM
http://www.timewastersguide.com/forum/index.php?topic=6655.msg129104#msg129104

Point two. Granting this info is . . . a little old . . . but! It also implies that in the next series, Marsh will be there! Of course this may have changed and Marsh might only be in Alloy of Law . . . if he makes an appearance.

The health storing/burning probably could extend your life a bit, but even being sick for a little while at 350 might kill you  :D
Also see this post (http://www.timewastersguide.com/forum/index.php?topic=6655.msg129247#msg129247).  Marsh has an initial supply of Atium that will last him for quite a while, and there's a pretty good chance Sazed would give him more when he runs out.
Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt 1
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on June 22, 2011, 07:10:30 PM
Very good introduction to the story.  Some things I noticed in the prologue:

Steel jacketed bullets seem like a bad idea.  The hard metal quickly degrades the gun's barrel, which is why steel cored bullets (jacketed with copper, and possibly lead) are used instead.
FMJ bullets with steel jackets do exist in our world, and it's usually a lead core, according to what our gun expert said and according to everything I can find. But yes, it's hard on a barrel. You can consider the description of the jacket a simplified one; there's probably more going on in its construction.
Quote
When going down the hole, Wax drops a bullet to support his weight.  This should probably be a cartridge (bullet, case, powder, and primer all together) unless he carried loose bullets to be used in the same way Mistborn used coins.
To the average person, even the average soldier who shoots guns all the time (and I asked one this specific question; he's served multiple tours in Iraq and Afghanistan), the whole thing is colloquially called a bullet. Generally only gun enthusiasts refuse to call it a bullet. So sometimes in the book when it says bullet it's referring to the whole thing, even sometimes from Wax's POV.
Quote
Wax cocks his gun twice inside of the mine, without him uncocking it (that we are told of).  Once was just before seeing the first display, then again at the end.
Ah, that's probably my screwup and I'll see if I can fix it.
Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt 1
Post by: Adrienne on June 22, 2011, 09:28:08 PM
Quote
FMJ bullets with steel jackets do exist in our world, and it's usually a lead core, according to what our gun expert said and according to everything I can find. But yes, it's hard on a barrel.

I was in Cabella's a few weeks ago. I decided to pick up some ammo and grabbed a box that was on sale. When I noticed it was steel, I asked the guy behind the gun counter and got the same issues about the barrel given to me.
Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt 1
Post by: Stormblessed on June 23, 2011, 04:47:02 AM
I think it would be cool if Wax used spent bullet casings from his shotgun as an anchor, or even as weapons as well, pushing on them as he uncocks the shotgun. They could still be very deadly, even if they've already been used.
Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt 1
Post by: ulysses sword on June 23, 2011, 09:20:51 AM
Different issue with the same part:

Wax drops a "bullet" in the prologue, but uses a "spent bullet casing" or "bullet casing" for his jumps in chapter one.  It could be that he carries casings with him in the city, but not outside of it, but I don't see a reason why.
Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt 1
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on June 23, 2011, 02:15:26 PM
Both of them would do the job.
Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt 1
Post by: Adrienne on June 29, 2011, 05:31:15 PM
http://www.tor.com/stories/2011/06/the-alloy-of-law-excerpt-2

Chapter 2 is up now!
Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch2)
Post by: Ari54 on June 29, 2011, 07:47:16 PM
I really like that Brandon introduces Bendalloy by using it so Wax and Wayne can have a private conversation, rather than in a fight. :)

Also, the idea of "allomantically inert" alloys and metals other than silver is new, but that would make sense as in previous novels silver is the only metal that they'd be likely to be making anything from, wheras in a more industrial era aluminium is likely to be much more common both as a metal and as an alloy.
Title: Re: Allow of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch2)
Post by: dhalagirl on June 30, 2011, 03:56:16 AM
I really like that Brandon introduces Bendalloy by using it so Wax and Wayne can have a private conversation, rather than in a fight. :)


I really liked that part too.  Wayne is such a charming scoundrel.  Steris reminds me of Mr. Collins a bit.  I really hope he doesn't marry her.
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch2)
Post by: andygal on June 30, 2011, 04:19:56 AM
talk about Mundane Utility (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MundaneUtility) (warning TVTropes link, do not click if you have anything important that needs doing today.)
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch2)
Post by: Stormblessed on June 30, 2011, 04:49:43 AM
I really like that Brandon introduces Bendalloy by using it so Wax and Wayne can have a private conversation, rather than in a fight. :)

Also, the idea of "allomantically inert" alloys and metals other than silver is new, but that would make sense as in previous novels silver is the only metal that they'd be likely to be making anything from, wheras in a more industrial era aluminium is likely to be much more common both as a metal and as an alloy.

I agree totally. This is the best part of Brandon, the fact that he can take a magic system and think of unique and sometimes even strange ways that it can be used without being used to kill armies and subjugate the masses.

I'm also happy that he had the "allomantically inert" alloys, because it sort of pissed me off that steel/iron could work on all metals. I thought that there should be some metals that can't be pushed/pulled, just like a magnet doesn't attract/reject all metals
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch2)
Post by: Inkthinker on June 30, 2011, 10:32:18 AM
I think "Mundane Utility" would be more like Wayne using bendalloy to give himself an extra five minutes of sleep, or preparing food "instantly" (to the outside observer, anyhow). In this case, they're using it to pass along vital information without the other party knowing.

Fear not though, there's plenty of uses for bendalloy to come.
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch2)
Post by: Adrienne on June 30, 2011, 02:54:01 PM
I picture Super Monkey Balls when they talk about being in the bubble.
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch2)
Post by: Squallor on July 01, 2011, 01:34:12 PM
So silly question here, more in line with the physics of bendalloy than anything else. I assume bullets are knocked off course whenever they hit the barrier at a non-90 degree angle. This seems to follow standard laws of light refraction, much how a glass lens would work. In that case, shouldn't anyone standing in a bubble, or anyone looking at a bubble outside of one, see a HUGE warp in the image, along with the red-shift/purple-shift?
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch2)
Post by: ulysses sword on July 01, 2011, 06:58:21 PM
I don't think that it does warp the light that much, as bystanders do not notice its appearance in the second that it is there for them.  I agree that physically, it would make sense to, but it could easily be a secondary power of the bendalloy bubble to shift distortion back to lower levels.  Also, if it was as you described, it would be much too easy to circumvent the distortion and shoot out of, as anyone in the exact centre would have an undistorted view/path for the bullet (assuming it is a perfectly smooth sphere).  As for blueshift/redshift, would it be cancelled by all of the measurement instruments (eg. eyes) and objects (eg, a torch) being affected as well? 
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch2)
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on July 02, 2011, 01:24:29 AM
There is not a redshift. It would have had too many other implications. Instead, you should probably think of a realmatic explanation.
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch2)
Post by: XJface on July 04, 2011, 11:26:16 AM
That has some implications of its own. Eventually they're going to discover relativity and realize that cadmium and bendalloy should have optical doppler effects and try to find out why they don't.
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch2)
Post by: Tortellini on July 04, 2011, 04:37:42 PM
Time travel/manipulation is something that shouldn't be analyzed too much in literature. Sure, it may work out to match our physics somehow, but I don't care if it doesn't.

What Peter is saying is "This is not our universe." It's another universe, with different physics. There is no reason that universe has to match ours.
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch2)
Post by: Tortellini on July 04, 2011, 04:39:21 PM
PS: This is how I feel about the preview chapters: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GmEjCGQ3wI

 ;D
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch2)
Post by: rcfleming on July 04, 2011, 06:18:01 PM
PS: This is how I feel about the preview chapters: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GmEjCGQ3wI

 ;D

Completely agree!

Quote
That has some implications of its own. Eventually they're going to discover relativity and realize that cadmium and bendalloy should have optical doppler effects and try to find out why they don't.

Eh . . . by that logic they'll going to discover people shouldn't be able to biologically burn metal and try to figure out why they can.

I think the answer in both cases is "a wizard did it." or maybe "a Shard did it."
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch2)
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on July 04, 2011, 07:49:19 PM
Realmatic Theory is part of their science.
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch2)
Post by: Adrienne on July 04, 2011, 09:25:46 PM
As much as people would like to rationalize, fantasy books are not reality based. I don't really need a plausible explanation because I know any good storyteller will simply pluck one out of the air. If later the author thinks of something better then that will get incorporated. RJ really experimented and progressed different methods of traveling over the course of WoT. He was able to change it by "rediscovering" different methods for moving people around that huge world.

I need to read the stickies more I guess. As much as I've enjoyed Brandon's stories this kind of stuff gets old. If there is a theory or something integral to a story I should not have to research these things. They should appear in the glossary IMO. I was absolutely shocked (and a bit appalled)  that TWotK did not have a glossary.

I've noticed this in the past on his Wiki page "An author's ability to solve conflict with magic is directly proportional to how well the reader understands said magic.". In my mind if you don't bother to clearly explain things in the book  then you are not doing a good job of allowing the reader to understand the magic associated with the story.

This lack of centralized information makes me think that someone is planning on writing a companion to the universe type of book. If that's not the case, maybe the world is just growing at a rate that the explanations and glossary for main stream readers have not been written.
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch2)
Post by: tipbruley on July 04, 2011, 09:56:06 PM
So silly question here, more in line with the physics of bendalloy than anything else. I assume bullets are knocked off course whenever they hit the barrier at a non-90 degree angle. This seems to follow standard laws of light refraction, much how a glass lens would work. In that case, shouldn't anyone standing in a bubble, or anyone looking at a bubble outside of one, see a HUGE warp in the image, along with the red-shift/purple-shift?

I've always viewed  Pushing/Pulling as having a strong correlation to magnets (thus why they only effect metal). Therefore the bubble could be a "magnetic barrier" that would deflect metal coming at non-90 degree angle. This would be invisible to the eye, and would only effect metal objects that passed through it. With our without the scientific outlook, I do not think that the bubble would ever distort light, since you can only Push or pull against metal object, not light itself.
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch2)
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on July 05, 2011, 05:38:18 AM
The lack of a glossary is due to a glossary getting too huge and unwieldy. In the Internet age a wiki is better for information like that.

Way of Kings does have the Ars Arcanum, but it serves a slightly different purpose. And the same goes for the Alloy of Law.
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch2)
Post by: Squallor on July 05, 2011, 02:56:20 PM
The only reason I had asked in the first place is because some months ago, I remember a big thread on 17th shard about it... I thought Brandon had made some comment in regards to questions that he was aware that normal physics would cause that type of problem, but wasn't sure how he was going to handle it in universe. I guess I had just falsely assumed that with the bullet deflection, it would have a similar explanation as the redshift/blueshift as discussed before.
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch2)
Post by: Adrienne on July 05, 2011, 03:30:41 PM
Quote
The lack of a glossary is due to a glossary getting too huge and unwieldy. In the Internet age a wiki is better for information like that.

I assumed that but wasn't sure of the reason. If the series is going to span at least a decade (which I would assume if there are ten planned books) I would think a glossary would be needed. The only other option is to get up out of bed or grab a smart phone to check something online. Neither option seems very appealing.

The other issue I have with that is there is no "official" wiki. With other books the author has approved the knowledge within the glossary. There were a lot of ways that a glossary can come into play with theories as they are official statements. The only wikis I'm aware of are put up by fans.

I noticed there is someone that has put together a 160+ page report on "Brandonology". This guy should have been a staff member! It looks like he's tried to go through every shred of information he could find. I've saved it but I'll probably end up converting it to place on the kindle to read when I can.
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch2)
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on July 05, 2011, 03:53:04 PM
With a series that is going to be ten books, it won't be possible to have a useful glossary. The Wheel of Time glossary has become really huge over the years and is still missing a ton of information. Sites like Encyclopaedia-Wot are more useful even though not official.

17th Shard is the official Brandon Sanderson fansite, so its wiki is as close to official as you will get. Most of what it says is accurate.
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch2)
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on July 05, 2011, 04:00:01 PM
The only reason I had asked in the first place is because some months ago, I remember a big thread on 17th shard about it... I thought Brandon had made some comment in regards to questions that he was aware that normal physics would cause that type of problem, but wasn't sure how he was going to handle it in universe. I guess I had just falsely assumed that with the bullet deflection, it would have a similar explanation as the redshift/blueshift as discussed before.
The things said in that thread influenced Brandon's decision on how things would work. I posted in that thread.
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch2)
Post by: Adrienne on July 07, 2011, 05:05:40 AM
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The Wheel of Time glossary has become really huge over the years and is still missing a ton of information.

Except for that age old pesky question that was answered in the last glossary!

I'll keep checking on 17th shard. Just so you know, I really appreciate the lengths you go to answer all of my questions from glossary to publishing to grammar/spelling!
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch2)
Post by: whynaut on July 12, 2011, 06:42:42 AM
I really like that Brandon introduces Bendalloy by using it so Wax and Wayne can have a private conversation, rather than in a fight. :)

Also, the idea of "allomantically inert" alloys and metals other than silver is new, but that would make sense as in previous novels silver is the only metal that they'd be likely to be making anything from, wheras in a more industrial era aluminium is likely to be much more common both as a metal and as an alloy.

I agree totally. This is the best part of Brandon, the fact that he can take a magic system and think of unique and sometimes even strange ways that it can be used without being used to kill armies and subjugate the masses.

I'm also happy that he had the "allomantically inert" alloys, because it sort of pissed me off that steel/iron could work on all metals. I thought that there should be some metals that can't be pushed/pulled, just like a magnet doesn't attract/reject all metals

Aluminum would make sense that it is "Allomantically inert". Unlike most metals in the real world, Aluminum cannot be magnetized. This leads to an interesting question: do Coinshots/Lurchers magically control metals or do they magically control magnetism? If it is magnetism, I wonder what Wax's abilities could do to the new electric lights they installed? Hmmm.
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch2)
Post by: Squallor on July 12, 2011, 02:12:39 PM
Personally, I always kind of assumed that is was a manipulation of electromagnetic forces. We have seen him play with other fundamental forces/properties, like mass and gravity, so it falls in line with the other systems.

On the the theoretical note... if a coinshot/lurcher did use magnetism to move metals, could this be used to generate wireless power like Tesla was experimenting with? Could lead to some interesting effects in later Mistborn trilogies...
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch3)
Post by: Adrienne on July 13, 2011, 05:06:27 PM
http://www.tor.com/blogs/2011/07/the-alloy-of-law-chapter-three
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch3)
Post by: Squallor on July 13, 2011, 05:52:22 PM
WOW... lots of good hints in that chapter. Aluminum can block soothers and rioters when when around the head? All Pathiens wear an earring during warship? Apparently Sazed likes to mettle a lot with the people of the world.

I am totally pumped we might actually see a lot more of Sazed then we originally thought, even if not necessarily a first person view.

Also, with the stolen goods being mostly allomantic and food stuffs, I am guessing they are trying to build an army of some kind. Maybe the mastermind behind this found some way to compulse people like Vin did with the koloss and kandra, however, the only person who could be powerful enough right now is Marsh, unless there is another full Mistborn around now. Thoughts?
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch3)
Post by: Adrienne on July 13, 2011, 06:05:50 PM
I did giggle when I read about aluminum lining for hats. It makes sense, this is another world so they are aliens!  :D
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch3)
Post by: Squallor on July 13, 2011, 06:14:22 PM
I did giggle when I read about aluminum lining for hats. It makes sense, this is another world so they are aliens!  :D

Maybe those homeless people on my street corner aren't so crazy after all!
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch3)
Post by: douglas on July 14, 2011, 12:13:25 AM
When I read the bit about it being impossible to make a speed bubble big enough, my first thought was "what about a mistborn using duralumin?"  Sure, mistborn are incredibly rare now so it's a bit of a long shot, but they're not completely gone - Brandon has said that the next full trilogy, which will happen later in the time line, will feature a mistborn serial killer as the antagonist.
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch3)
Post by: ulysses sword on July 14, 2011, 12:42:24 AM
...maybe it's Marsh that's behind the Vanishers.  With the right spikes, he could make a speed bubble big enough, as well as helping move all of the freight that they stole.  Either that, or else the freight is stolen at loading time, and the rest is just a big distraction, except for the hostages.
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch3)
Post by: andygal on July 14, 2011, 02:25:29 AM
Marsh is presumably a servant of Sazed at this point, I don't see why Saze would be getting him to kidnap presumably innocent women, or letting him do it if he was doing it on his own.
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch3)
Post by: Inkthinker on July 14, 2011, 04:12:35 AM
I did giggle when I read about aluminum lining for hats. It makes sense, this is another world so they are aliens!  :D

I've read the whole book 3 times now, and somehow I never did catch the link to "tinfoil hats".

Beautiful.

 ;D
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch3)
Post by: douglas on July 14, 2011, 03:45:23 PM
Now that I've thought about it a bit more, I'm abandoning my mistborn-bendalloy/duralumin theory even as a long shot.  You don't actually need a mistborn to produce that effect, just a bendalloy misting and a nicrosil misting, and the people dismissing a sufficiently large speed bubble as impossible in the book should know that.

What I'd like to know is what kind of spike Waxillium's earring is, and what ability or attribute it grants or enhances.  I got the impression from the chapter that Waxillium (along with probably most of the world population) doesn't know anything about hemalurgic spikes and is just putting it in because it's traditional, but it clearly is a spike and allows Sazed to communicate through Ruin's hemalurgy backdoor.  It also makes me wonder who the woman who gave it to him is, as she almost certainly does know about hemalurgy.
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch3)
Post by: Squallor on July 14, 2011, 04:22:24 PM
What I'd like to know is what kind of spike Waxillium's earring is, and what ability or attribute it grants or enhances. 

I am of the mind that it is not necessarily a hemalurgic spike, so much of a means for Sazed to readily identify, possibly communicate with his followers. My guess is just with the nature of the shards he holds, its easier to find someone with a spike, even if it isn't charged.

Also Sazed likely doesn't even need the spike to do this, as Chaos found and posted on the 17th shard forums.

Quote
Spook was the only one in the crew he could speak to. That's because Spook truly has faith in Kelsier as a deity—which, for these few weeks between Preservation's death and the coming of the Hero of Ages, Kelsier is.

It seems against Saze's nature to actually kill someone to make a spike so he can talk to one person, however, he does appear to be taking a special interest in Wax.
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch3)
Post by: zas678 on July 15, 2011, 12:10:47 AM
Just to be clear, Spook isn't the only one who's talked to. Elend, who has an enourmous level of trust and faith in Vin, is able to be "talked to" by Vin. The faith that a person has in a Shard makes it easier for the Shard to communicate to the person.
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch3)
Post by: kari-no-sugata on July 26, 2011, 03:50:25 AM
Couple of random thoughts...

I have wondered just how much "public" influence Harmony has on the world. From one or two things, it felt like it could have happened a number of times... but after re-reading the end of Mistborn, I realised it could be possible that he's had no public/official communication with the world since the events right at the end of The Hero of Ages - these "Words of Founding" could be from that time. That would certainly make more sense.

Also, am I the only one to wonder about this woman on the train Wax met who gave him the Pathian pin? Wax thinks she was one of the "faceless immortals" (ie kandra), but I had this feeling (based on nothing more than a hunch) that she could have been Vin. However, if so I would expect this to be more of a little "easter egg" or the like to Mistborn fans and nothing more - not expecting her to show up for real even if it was her. I think it is possible, particularly since the irony of it makes me think Brandon would do something like this, since Brandon has said in the past that Harmony will/should eventually figure out how to bring souls back, and so it would be possible for this to occur. To be clear - this is pure speculation on my part, I don't think it would have any bearing on the rest of the book, and this is no way a criticism of the end of the Mistborn trilogy (which I think is pretty much perfect and I wouldn't change a thing).
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch3)
Post by: Squallor on July 27, 2011, 02:11:03 PM
I doubt that it was Vin. Personally, doing an easter egg like that kind of cheapens the whole plot of the first trilogy, and wouldn't add to the new plot in this book. Also, I am pretty sure Brandon has explicitly stated that Vin and the rest of the crew will not be coming back. He had no plans on writing a sequel for them.
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch3)
Post by: jacobfake on August 13, 2011, 02:30:08 AM
hey what happens if you pull on something that's halfway in/ halfway out of a speed bubble? Say, pushing a long table - how fast does it move?
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch3)
Post by: andygal on August 13, 2011, 02:38:25 AM
I'm prettty sure the Words of Founding are the books Saze left for Spook (containing all the information that was in his metalminds and the explanations about metaphysical stuff).
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch3)
Post by: dhalagirl on August 13, 2011, 06:29:08 AM
hey what happens if you pull on something that's halfway in/ halfway out of a speed bubble? Say, pushing a long table - how fast does it move?

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that if something like a table extended beyond the edge of a speed bubble it would make the bubble visible.  I don't think the bubble can be extended through solid matter. That does bring to mind an interesting thought. The space under the table could possibly be a window into the bubble and reveal what was happening inside at hyper speed.  Either way, that would make the pushing/pulling on an object that crossed the edge a moot point since the element of surprise would be gone.  The second you pushed/pulled on it, those outside the bubble would see it and react accordingly.

If my above assumptions are correct than the speed bubble wouldn't have any affect on the momentum of the object being pushed/pulled.  The object would respond normally to the amount of force applied to it.
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch3)
Post by: ulysses sword on August 13, 2011, 08:17:53 AM
I see two possibilities with pulling an item crossing a speed bubble, both of which say (almost) nothing happens.

1. It cannot happen, the bubble warps itself to either include or exclude any discrete item.  This could have the side effect of deflecting and changing the speed of moving objects, like bullets.

2. The large change in momentum would increase the amount of force needed to move the table (that sticks out of a Bendalloy bubble).  I think it would be about 100x as hard (assuming 100x speedup of time) to accelerate an outside object (or part of one) from inside of the bubble as outside of it, because it would be moving that much faster in the outside world.  most objects are not that strong, so they would break at the edge of the bubble.

I'm not sure about either of these ideas, especially with such limited information to go off of, but I think #2 is better at least.
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch3)
Post by: CabbyHat on August 14, 2011, 06:14:19 AM
I see two possibilities with pulling an item crossing a speed bubble, both of which say (almost) nothing happens.

1. It cannot happen, the bubble warps itself to either include or exclude any discrete item.  This could have the side effect of deflecting and changing the speed of moving objects, like bullets.

2. The large change in momentum would increase the amount of force needed to move the table (that sticks out of a Bendalloy bubble).  I think it would be about 100x as hard (assuming 100x speedup of time) to accelerate an outside object (or part of one) from inside of the bubble as outside of it, because it would be moving that much faster in the outside world.  most objects are not that strong, so they would break at the edge of the bubble.

I'm not sure about either of these ideas, especially with such limited information to go off of, but I think #2 is better at least.

Yeah, I agree with #2; it makes a certain amount of logical sense. And there's the fact that Wayne has enclosed both himself and Wax in a bubble while they were sitting on a couch, which would seem to be an awkward position to maneuver a bubble around without intersecting the couch or one of its occupants. As an aside, did he say if the bubbles have to be perfectly spherical?
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch3)
Post by: jacobfake on August 14, 2011, 09:47:07 PM
I see two possibilities with pulling an item crossing a speed bubble, both of which say (almost) nothing happens.

1. It cannot happen, the bubble warps itself to either include or exclude any discrete item.  This could have the side effect of deflecting and changing the speed of moving objects, like bullets.

2. The large change in momentum would increase the amount of force needed to move the table (that sticks out of a Bendalloy bubble).  I think it would be about 100x as hard (assuming 100x speedup of time) to accelerate an outside object (or part of one) from inside of the bubble as outside of it, because it would be moving that much faster in the outside world.  most objects are not that strong, so they would break at the edge of the bubble.

I'm not sure about either of these ideas, especially with such limited information to go off of, but I think #2 is better at least.


Yeah #2 does sound better, as it would seem to require less Scadriel-Laws of Physics-distortions, but it would still seem to bring up a couple things that would seem important for Wayne.

The ones that I can think of are that if you ever caught somebody's sword only halfway in a speed bubble (Vin was using a sword taller than she was in one of the books) and it wasn't mid-swing, having their sword suddenly become 100x heavier would basically ruin them. Of course that's probably not a super common situation but also, if you were fighting in a speed bubble (to make it harder for outsiders to interfere) then any halfway-in objects, instead of being thrown out of the way, would basically work the same as walls and make pins, headsmashes, etc. so much more effective in a way that you couldn't really ignore. Also if somebody was pushing something large or holding onto somebody falling off the edge of the cliff, catching all of them but only half of the object or person would make it basically impossible for them to push the object, and magnify the force of gravity (since that's what is really holding any of these objects in place in the first place) to pull the cliff-dangling guy out of his rescuers hands or, if the rescuer didn't let go, to pull him with him.

Also, for that matter, what about catching a person half-in, half-out? If #2 really holds true, the effect on their internal seems like possible death, or failing that the effect on their perception would at least be incredibly disorienting.

Since those are just like throwing some out there off the top of my head, it just seems that any way you spin it the edge of the speed bubble has to have a bunch of minor implications that cumulatively add up to being fairly major.
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch3)
Post by: Inkthinker on August 15, 2011, 04:37:16 AM
Don't forget that a speed bubble lasts, to an outside observer, for a fraction of a second. It slows down time to the perception of the people inside it, but outside the bubble time proceeds normally.

For instance, when Wax and Wayne had their little side conversation during the interview with Steris, the bubble lasted for several minutes on the inside, but on the outside it was barely a second or so (look to the left, look back. That's how long it lasted).

So to an outside observer, a bubble is a *blip*. Not a lot of time for people on the outside to try and push things in or pull them out.
Title: Re: Alloy of Law Excerpt (Updated with Ch3)
Post by: ulysses sword on August 15, 2011, 04:56:14 AM
In #2, I meant that an object's apparent mass (resistance to changing velocity) would be increased, I don't think that the weight (downwards force due to gravity) or that the acceleration of gravity changes inside or out, it is still 9.81 (or whatever) metres per (local) second squared.

The ones that I can think of are that if you ever caught somebody's sword only halfway in a speed bubble (Vin was using a sword taller than she was in one of the books) and it wasn't mid-swing, having their sword suddenly become 100x heavier would basically ruin them.

I think it would have 100x the mass, but the same weight. Following this, it would just get stuck in the edge, not be pulled down.  This would still be pretty bad, but still recoverable.

I'm still trying to figure out what would happen if you caught an arrow halfway in.

EDIT: as for catching someone halfway in, I can't imagine that they could be used as a (instantly fatal) weapon like that, so...people follow theory #1, and are always in or out, unlike inanimate objects?