Timewaster's Guide Archive
Local Authors => Brandon Sanderson => Topic started by: wolverinehokie on October 04, 2010, 01:10:55 PM
-
Does anyone know what happened to his shardplate and shardblade? We know Szeth didn't take it. Dalinar has had his set since he was young, Adolin got his from his mother's side, Elhonkar got his from Dalinar at the beginning of the plains war, so what happened to Gavilier's set? My guess is Sadeas might have gotten the plate and the blade was given to someone else, but why wasn't it given to Elhonkar?
-
I don't think we know.
Unless there's some kind of Alethi tradition that says a king is buried with his blade and plate, but I doubt that they'd do that. For one thing, grave robbery would become a nightmare.
-
Doubt there is a tradition since Gavilar is the second (third?) king!
This is a good catch as this detail wouldn't have been missed by Brandon...
-
I thought that Elohkar was using it.
I remember it saying that Dholinar had given him a set to give to whom he deemed worthy, or perhaps I am just confusing that with a different part..
-
I'm pretty sure it said he gave it to Elhokar to use, at least that's the way I read the passage. I'll have to find the quote at a latter date. I could see Dalinar giving Elhokar a set to use, but not to give to someone else. Dalinar would want to reward his own lieutenants rather than let Elhokar decide who should get it. That was even discussed with Renarin when he said he'd give Renarin a set next.
-
No, he gave it to Elhokar to give to "whoever he deemed fittest" in all of the warcamps. Elhokar already had his own set, likely from Gavilar. The reference shouldn't be too hard to find, but I don't have my book with me.
I'm quite confident of it, though.
-
Erunion is right, Dalinar specifically said no one would fault him for giving the next shardplate he found to his son because he had already given a set to Elhokar to give out to whomever he deemed fit.
-
No, he gave it to Elhokar to give to "whoever he deemed fittest" in all of the warcamps. Elhokar already had his own set, likely from Gavilar. The reference shouldn't be too hard to find, but I don't have my book with me.
I'm quite confident of it, though.
No I think I recall that Elhokars plate and blade are different from Gavilars, and that Elhokars came from the parshendi, but i dont have the references for that. which makes me wonder what DID happen to Gavilars shards?
-
Description of Elhokar's sword pg 203 hardcover
his Shardblade - Sunraiser - springing from mist into his hand. It was long and thin with a large crossguard, and was etched up the sides with the ten fundamental glyphs.
Description of Gavilar's sword pg 29 hardcover
The newcomer carried a sword as well, an enormous Shardblade six feet long with a design along the blade like burning flames, a weapon of silvery metal that gleamed and almost seemed to glow.
Description of the set Dalinar won pg 281 hardover
He'd given both to Elhokar to award to a warrior he felt would be the most useful to Alethkar and the war effort.
I guess to me the problem with the quote is who "he" is. I read it as "he" being Dalinar, but I can also see "he" being Elhokar. As in, Dalinar feels Elhokar is the warrior who is most useful to Alethkar. Also the different descriptions of the blades makes it seem like they are different blades. Obviously the glyphs could look like burning flames, but I believe the descriptions being different is intentional. Would Szeth describe glyphs as a "design like burning flames"? Although the more I reread the quote about the set Dalinar won, the more it does seem like "he" refers to Elhokar so that could answer my question right there.
-
One more quote pg 282
"None of the other highprinces give up their spoils to the king," Dalinar said. "And who would fault me if, for once, I made a gift to my son?"
So in response to Galavantes, spoils does not necessarily mean Plate and Blades.
-
At this point, I don't think we have any idea what happened to Gavilar's blade. Sadeas might have his plate, but I doubt it.
-
That quote from 281 makes me think that Elhokar still has the extra Blade and Plate. I figure if he'd given them away already the Blade would have been gives to Sadeas.
-
While it still makes the most sense to me that Gavilar's sword and plate would be used by Elhokar, the baldes really don't sound like they match :/
And Elhokar would have been far older than Adolin when he got his Plate and Blade.
It seems to me that the owner of Gavilar's gear has not been pointed out to us yet.
-
Crazy theory time: If Elhokar's Blade and Plate aren't from Gavilar, then Shallan has Gavilar's Blade. Someone from her father's organisation happened on the king's body, stole his Blade while it sat there, and made off with it. Then the Blade made it's way into Shallan's dad's hands, and then Shallan. Heck, maybe Shallan's dad happened on Gavilar's body.
Dalinar and the rest of the Alethi thought the Assassin in White took the Blade, but didn't have the time to steal the Plate.
Does Elhokar's plate match the description of Gavilar's? It might be that Elhokar got his dad's Plate, but no Blade, and when Dalinar gave him the Parshendi Plate and Blade, Elhokar took the Blade and passed on the Plate (to Sadeas?).
I don't know. I can't remember all the descriptions of the Plate, or if Sadeas had his Plate the whole time.
But Shallan's Blade is Gavilar's. If Elhokar doesn't have it.
</crazy theory>
-
Storm you Omelethead, you beat me to it. :P
-
Galivier's plate and blade would be very noticable. His plate glistens blue with gold around the edges and wings on his helm. His blade was 6 feet long with a design along the blade like burning flames, silvery metal that gleamed and almost seemed to glow. The plate doesn't appear to show up in text anywhere else (Elhokar:Gold, Sadeas:Red, Amaram:Gold, Adolin:Painted Blue, Dalinar:Slate-Grey, Parshendi:Silver), although it is noted that they paint their armor. Both Amaram and the Parshendi that Dalinar fights have blades shaped like flame (one in motion, the other frozen in metal) but other than that I can't think of any that have a design of burning flames. I would guess that if the armor and blade were recovered, that Elhokar would wear it rather than his own. So that leads me to believe that they have walked off and will show up in a later book.
-
The plate is distinctive, but it is painted. Plates natural state is slate-grey (which is how Dalinar keeps it). When you break it apart, as happened to Gavilar's (it was pretty much shattered) it regrows (I assume) slate-grey, and can easily be repainted or have the old design painted over. The plate is likely the plate that Elhokar wears.
You have, however, convinced me about the blade. Elhokar does not use Gavilar's blade. Perhaps the Parshendi took the blade, and the Parshendi shardbearer is the one who has Gavilar's blade?
The crazy Shallan-has-Gavilar's-blade theory does sound cool though. Just the Parshendi's is described as being flame-like, as is Gavilar's.
The Parshendi didn't take credit for the assassination until after the fact, so they likely would have relatively free access to the area during the confusion. Perhaps one of the Parshendi was sent to follow Szeth and confirm the body was dead/take the blade?
-
Doubt there is a tradition since Gavilar is the second (third?) king!
This is a good catch as this detail wouldn't have been missed by Brandon...
Gavilar is the first king, I believe. He was the one who reunited the Highprinces. That is why it is so hard for his son, who is the first one to become king without conquest.
As for his shardgear, I doubt Elhokar has it. Brandon seems to imply heavily that Elhokar doesn't have it (why else would he mention Dalinar giving him an extra set, he would of rather given it to Renarin). Who has it though...?
I like the idea of shardplates reforming slate-grey. It could be possible that someone has Gavilar's shardplate, but we would never know as it would be now be painted in different colours.
-
The reason why I thought Sadeas might have it is because if he had Plate when Szeth was attacking Gavilar, it would have made more sense for Sadeas and Gavilar to face Szeth together and have someone else be the decoy. Sadeas was one of the first ones to find Gavilar and could have been given the Plate as a reward. However, I find that unlikely, so maybe the Parshendi and/or Shallon's dad took it.
-
Shardplates are bulky and unlike shardblades can't be summoned at will. Saedes is unlikely to have carried his shardplate to Galvinar's rooms (though it would've definitely been in the palace).
-
But if Gavilar had time to put his on, I think Sadeas would too. He could have met up with Gavilar even if his Plate wasn't in the same place.
-
But if Gavilar had time to put his on, I think Sadeas would too. He could have met up with Gavilar even if his Plate wasn't in the same place.
I'm assuming Sadeas plate was in his room, and he had to help with Gaviliar's plate. Note that Sadeas was already in Gaviliar's room when the attack began.
-
Crazy theory time: If Elhokar's Blade and Plate aren't from Gavilar, then Shallan has Gavilar's Blade. Someone from her father's organisation happened on the king's body, stole his Blade while it sat there, and made off with it. Then the Blade made it's way into Shallan's dad's hands, and then Shallan. Heck, maybe Shallan's dad happened on Gavilar's body.
Dalinar and the rest of the Alethi thought the Assassin in White took the Blade, but didn't have the time to steal the Plate.
Does Elhokar's plate match the description of Gavilar's? It might be that Elhokar got his dad's Plate, but no Blade, and when Dalinar gave him the Parshendi Plate and Blade, Elhokar took the Blade and passed on the Plate (to Sadeas?).
I don't know. I can't remember all the descriptions of the Plate, or if Sadeas had his Plate the whole time.
But Shallan's Blade is Gavilar's. If Elhokar doesn't have it.
</crazy theory>
You might be onto something since both are described as "silvery".
-
The real question here is how many different ways we can spell the name "Gavilar." I've counted four so far in this thread.
On topic, though, I like the Shallan blade theory. That might actually spoil Book 2 for me, because I can see that being a big deal when she's forced to pull the blade to save someone/something, and everyone's like "Assassin in White!"
Then Sadeas has to step up and be all "I remember the Assassin in White, it wasn't this chick," or, in an even more evil step because ruining Shallan somehow undermines Dalinar, saying "I remember exactly the Assassin in White, and it was DEFINITELY this chick."
-
The real question here is how many different ways we can spell the name "Gavilar." I've counted four so far in this thread.
I like the spelling Galivar.
On topic, though, I like the Shallan blade theory. That might actually spoil Book 2 for me, because I can see that being a big deal when she's forced to pull the blade to save someone/something, and everyone's like "Assassin in White!"
Then Sadeas has to step up and be all "I remember the Assassin in White, it wasn't this chick," or, in an even more evil step because ruining Shallan somehow undermines Dalinar, saying "I remember exactly the Assassin in White, and it was DEFINITELY this chick."
How old is Shallan? 5 years can be a long time for a young girl, she may have been too young to be the assassin in white when Gavilar dies. Though Shin are suppose to look like children, so he might get away with it. But I doubt Shallan would walk around bald.
-
Then Sadeas has to step up and be all "I remember the Assassin in White, it wasn't this chick," or, in an even more evil step because ruining Shallan somehow undermines Dalinar, saying "I remember exactly the Assassin in White, and it was DEFINITELY this chick."
I think it's well known that the Assassin in White was Shin. Sadeas wasn't the only one to see him, and with Szeth's recent exploits and assassinations around the continent, no one is going to suspect Shallan of being the AiW.
-
Stormblessed, Dalinar gives Elhokar two sets of plate and blade captured from the parshendi. Elhokar gave them to the two warriors that were most worthy of the gear. This was likely a political move, to encourage unity in the warcamps and enhance the kingly image of Elhokar, the king being the one who provides honour and security to his subjects. The idea of giving gear to Renarin is a new one. Isn't Renarin 20? If so, he would have been 15 at the time that Dalinar gave out the gear. Add this to his "blood weakness" whatever that may be, and he would be, in the minds of most Alethi, clearly unsuited to bearing shards.
I think it's pretty clear from the text that Elhokar had his own shardblade/shardplate before the war. He was, after all, the king's son.
Think about this, Dalinar and Gavilar conquered all of Alethkar, "defeating their best shardbearers" and subduing their armies. They are likely to have captured several sets of plate and blade. Who better to receive the gear than the king's own son? Considering that he's nearly thirty by now, he would have been in his late teens/early twenties during his father's conquest, prime time to be given shards.
(Adolin's plate and blade are inherited though, right? That's what I seem to remember from his POV's)
It is likely that Elhokar already had plate/blade by the time of his father's death. He would certainly at least have had one or the other.
It seems that we have a few options for what happened to Gavilar's gear. First, the plate:
Sadaes has it,
Elhokar has it,
Or someone else took it.
Next the blade:
The Parshendi Shardbearer has it,
Shallan has it,
Someone else took it.
Of those, I think that Elhokar or Sadaes has the plate, and that the Parshendi Shardbearer has the blade. Their is, of course, one objection to the Parshendi having the blade; Dalinar would likely have recognized it. That then makes Shallan just as likely a candidate for holding the blade. Perhaps her father was in Alethkar as a traveling dignitary, and he was tipped off by the ghostbloods, followed Szeth and took the blade?
-
Stormblessed, Dalinar gives Elhokar two sets of plate and blade captured from the parshendi.
Where are you getting that from?
-
Stormblessed, Dalinar gives Elhokar two sets of plate and blade captured from the parshendi. Elhokar gave them to the two warriors that were most worthy of the gear. This was likely a political move, to encourage unity in the warcamps and enhance the kingly image of Elhokar, the king being the one who provides honour and security to his subjects. The idea of giving gear to Renarin is a new one. Isn't Renarin 20? If so, he would have been 15 at the time that Dalinar gave out the gear. Add this to his "blood weakness" whatever that may be, and he would be, in the minds of most Alethi, clearly unsuited to bearing shards.
As far as I can remember, Dalinar only captured one set of Parshendi Shardplate, which he gave to Elhokar to divvy up. Dalinar didn't give it to Elhokar, but let him decide who got it, to honor him as king. Elhokar gave it out, we don't know where. The other Highprinces don't bother sending their captured Shards to the king, but give them to their own men, something Dalinar later decided to do with Renarin.
Of those, I think that Elhokar or Sadaes has the plate, and that the Parshendi Shardbearer has the blade. Their is, of course, one objection to the Parshendi having the blade; Dalinar would likely have recognized it. That then makes Shallan just as likely a candidate for holding the blade. Perhaps her father was in Alethkar as a traveling dignitary, and he was tipped off by the ghostbloods, followed Szeth and took the blade?
Why would the Parshendi Shardbearer have Gavilar's Blade/Plate? The book mentions that the Parshendi had their own Shardbearers, so when we finally meet one, why do we assume it's not just a "regular" Shardbearer?
-
Why would the Parshendi Shardbearer have Gavilar's Blade/Plate? The book mentions that the Parshendi had their own Shardbearers, so when we finally meet one, why do we assume it's not just a "regular" Shardbearer?
Because the Parshendi had Gavilar killed and we don't know where his Plate or Blade are, hence this whole thread.
But the description of the Parshendi Blade, at least the one at the end on pg 903 is:
His Shardblade was wicked and barbed, like flames frozen into metal.
So since Shallon's blade is "silvery" and so is Gavilar's, that the best evidence so far they could be the same Blade. No other adjectives have been used for multiple Blades except that all Blades besides Szeth's are about 6ft long.
As far as I can remember, Dalinar only captured one set of Parshendi Shardplate, which he gave to Elhokar to divvy up. Dalinar didn't give it to Elhokar, but let him decide who got it, to honor him as king. Elhokar gave it out, we don't know where. The other Highprinces don't bother sending their captured Shards to the king, but give them to their own men, something Dalinar later decided to do with Renarin.
If you had read the quotes I linked earlier in this thread, you'd see that the actual passages related to those things are ambiguous as to if Dalinar gave a set of Blade and Plate to Elhokar to keep or to use.
As Erunion pointed out though, Elhokar could have already had his own set of Plate and Blade before Gavilar died, but just because Dalinar and Gavilar defeated the other Alethi shardbearers does not neccessarily mean they killed the other shardbearers. They were fighting other Alethi after all with the goal of uniting all the Alethi. That would be hard to do if they went around taking all the Alethi Blades and Plate.
-
Why would the Parshendi Shardbearer have Gavilar's Blade/Plate? The book mentions that the Parshendi had their own Shardbearers, so when we finally meet one, why do we assume it's not just a "regular" Shardbearer?
Because the Parshendi had Gavilar killed and we don't know where his Plate or Blade are, hence this whole thread.
But they didn't have him killed for his Plate and Blade! They didn't give Szeth any special instructions, never told him to make sure and take the Blade or to leave the Plate as intact as possible. They weren't interested in his Blade and Plate, they had their own sets.
As far as I can remember, Dalinar only captured one set of Parshendi Shardplate, which he gave to Elhokar to divvy up. Dalinar didn't give it to Elhokar, but let him decide who got it, to honor him as king. Elhokar gave it out, we don't know where. The other Highprinces don't bother sending their captured Shards to the king, but give them to their own men, something Dalinar later decided to do with Renarin.
If you had read the quotes I linked earlier in this thread, you'd see that the actual passages related to those things are ambiguous as to if Dalinar gave a set of Blade and Plate to Elhokar to keep or to use.
As Erunion pointed out though, Elhokar could have already had his own set of Plate and Blade before Gavilar died, but just because Dalinar and Gavilar defeated the other Alethi shardbearers does not neccessarily mean they killed the other shardbearers. They were fighting other Alethi after all with the goal of uniting all the Alethi. That would be hard to do if they went around taking all the Alethi Blades and Plate.
I didn't think they were that ambiguous. Dalinar let Elhokar decide who to award the Shardplate to. He would have mentioned it if Elhokar owed Dalinar for his Shards, especially when Dalinar was drilling some sense into Elhokar's head at the end.
-
Why would the Parshendi Shardbearer have Gavilar's Blade/Plate? The book mentions that the Parshendi had their own Shardbearers, so when we finally meet one, why do we assume it's not just a "regular" Shardbearer?
Because the Parshendi had Gavilar killed and we don't know where his Plate or Blade are, hence this whole thread.
But they didn't have him killed for his Plate and Blade! They didn't give Szeth any special instructions, never told him to make sure and take the Blade or to leave the Plate as intact as possible. They weren't interested in his Blade and Plate, they had their own sets.
It never actually says if they took it or not or if they even needed Szeth to do anything. Whatever their motives for killing Gavilar, getting a Shardblade at the same time seems like a good deal.
Sure, the Blade/Plate probably wasn't their main goal, but we can't say it wasn't one of their goals.
-
It never actually says if they took it or not or if they even needed Szeth to do anything. Whatever their motives for killing Gavilar, getting a Shardblade at the same time seems like a good deal.
Sure, the Blade/Plate probably wasn't their main goal, but we can't say it wasn't one of their goals.
I think it pretty definitely wasn't one of their goals. How would they have managed it without specifically instructing Szeth? They're going to sneak someone else close to the king's body before any of his advisors get there to hurry and grab the Blade? No way. I'm sure they would have asked Szeth to steal the Blade if they had thought of it or fully understood what Truthless of Shinovar meant. They're probably not going to turn down a Blade if it comes their way (though they just might, since that is what they did by letting Dalinar and Adolin walk away, by fighting fair. They might not believe in stealing an assassinated man's Blade), but they wouldn't sign a treaty and send an assassin that same night just for a Blade.
They wanted to kill Gavilar. They probably didn't think Szeth would even have to battle a Shardbearer to death. It was a surprise for Gavilar to be the one in the Plate, remember. They wanted Szeth to get the king, hopefully avoiding any Shardbearers along the way, but getting past them if he needed to.
There's no way they did all this to get one Shardsuit. It was not the goal, a goal, or even something they were hoping for.
-
There's no way they did all this to get one Shardsuit. It was not the goal, a goal, or even something they were hoping for.
I don't think anyone thinks they killed Gavilar for the Blade and Plate. But just because they have their own sets, doesn't mean they wouldn't also like another set. Also, as someone else said, they could have checked on Szeth's handiwork and noticed the Blade and then took the Blade. That's not my personal theory (I like the Shallan idea), but I do think is a valid theory.
And even if the set Dalinar won on the plains was given to Elhokar to give to whoever he wanted, it still doesn't answer where Gavilar's set is now.
-
There's no way they did all this to get one Shardsuit. It was not the goal, a goal, or even something they were hoping for.
I don't think anyone thinks they killed Gavilar for the Blade and Plate. But just because they have their own sets, doesn't mean they wouldn't also like another set. Also, as someone else said, they could have checked on Szeth's handiwork and noticed the Blade and then took the Blade. That's not my personal theory (I like the Shallan idea), but I do think is a valid theory.
I'm sure they'd like another set, but they couldn't reasonably expect to get Gavilar's. Making off with his Plate would be unbelievably difficult. It would require armies to hold the Alethi off while they stripped Gavilar and carted it out. His Blade would be easier, but there's no way for them to be first to the scene, beating Gavilar's guards and countrymen.
If they wanted Plate, they could have invited Highprinces out for Greatshell hunts. And had "accidents".
I 'm sticking with what I said. The Parshendi had no expectation or hope to get ahold of Gavilar's Shards. It just wasn't in their plans. If they had thought ahead, they might have commanded Szeth to recover any Shardblades he happened across, but it's easy to see how they forgot. They were worried about bigger things at the time.
And even if the set Dalinar won on the plains was given to Elhokar to give to whoever he wanted, it still doesn't answer where Gavilar's set is now.
Very true. It's a good question. I think Elhokar inherited Gavilar's Plate, but that's just a personal theory.
-
As far as I can remember, Dalinar only captured one set of Parshendi Shardplate, which he gave to Elhokar to divvy up.
At one point, I think that Dalinar mentioned that he's dueled and killed two shardbearers. One of those times might have happened in the wars to unite the kingdom, though.
-
I seem to remember the Parshendi leaving the party before the King was killed. Szeth standing up was a sign for the Parshendi to withdraw. If they were already gone, they would have been unlikely to have had time to get the shardblade, let alone a balky shardplate that had run out of juice (stormlight).