Timewaster's Guide Archive
Local Authors => Brandon Sanderson => Topic started by: FollowYourMuse on September 27, 2010, 04:53:13 PM
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In thinking of Shallan and her ability to see the Spren, in her memories that she unconciously then draws, I am wondering if there is any correlation or effect on the Spren, similar to the 2 Ardents Geranid and Ashir that find measuring the spren and writting it down "fixes" them at a certain height/aspect.
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My current theory about spren is that they're the physical manifestation of a cognitive-realm creature. Their physical forms remain mutable because large parts of them are still undefined at the cognative level.
I think Shallan's observation of them might make them more fixed in some way, though I assume it's more than just their size.
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I agree with never for the most part.
But Shallan seeing the spren is just like Kaladin seeing Syl. People see the spren they are bonded with, though in different ways (for Shaallan it is through her drawings, which may have something to do with the fact that her element is closely related to art). But people not bonded with those spren cannot, unless they are special in some way like Rock. Though, now that Syl is getting more powerful, she is easier to see.
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Sorry for digging up an old thread, but this looked like a good one in which to post my question.
When Nohadon is talking to Dalinar, he notes that the Nahel bond did not make Alkavish, a Surgebinder, a better man. And then he says 'Alas, not all spren are as discerning as Honorspren.'
This indicates that Honorspren are very discerning, but that the spren associated with Alkavish was not. But Kaladin is a Surgebinder, and his powers are in some way granted by his Honorspren, Syl.
So, was Alkavish a Surgebinder by some means other than an Honorspren? Can different kinds of spren grant Surgebinding powers?
Also, what is the Nahel bond, if not a bond between a person and an Honorspren?
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So, was Alkavish a Surgebinder by some means other than an Honorspren? Can different kinds of spren grant Surgebinding powers?
Also, what is the Nahel bond, if not a bond between a person and an Honorspren?
Those are anyone's best guesses. I suspect the same; the Nahel bond is what Syl did for Kaladin, and there are other spren besides honorspren that can do it, and Alkavish had one of those. But there's no more evidence available. It also makes me wonder where the word Nahel comes from.
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Kaladin's powers aren't the only type of Surgebinding, I assume. I'm pretty sure the different types of Surgebinding correspond to the different orders of Knights Radiant. Windrunning, Kaladin and Szeth's powers, are just one kind, with the two kinds of Soulcasting being another.
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This came up on Theoryland recently, and I'm wondering if there's a misreading of the text involved somewhere. I'm not aware of any evidence that there were two types of Soulcasting beyond the fact that some can do it naturally and some (most) have to use fabrials, so I don't think there is any reason to believe there are different types of Surgebinding.
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Then why would it refer to Kaladin and Szeth as Windrunners, rather than Surgebinders, and yet Nohadon still refers to honorspren as part of Surgebinding? And there are two different kinds of Soulcasting, Jasnah metions it near the end of the book.
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Then why would it refer to Kaladin and Szeth as Windrunners, rather than Surgebinders, and yet Nohadon still refers to honorspren as part of Surgebinding? And there are two different kinds of Soulcasting, Jasnah metions it near the end of the book.
The Windrunners was the name of the Order of the Knights Radiant that Dalinar saw in his visions. He also saw the Stonewards, who appear to be Soulcasters.
And Jasnah only mentioned what I already said - she and Shallan are the only ones we know of who can Soulcast inherently. The ardents use fabrials, which is a matter of technology rather than talent.
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No, she specifically mentions a difference between the way the two of them use Soulcasting, since she doesn't seem to interact with the symbolheads like Shallan does.
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Quote? I think you are remembering it wrong.
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Page 978
"What of the creatures with the symbol heads?" Shallan asked. She flipped through her sketches, then held up an image of them. "Do you see them too? How are they related?"
Jasnah frowned, taking the image, "You see beings like this? In Shadesmar?"
"They appear in my drawings," Shallan said. "They're around me, Jasnah. You don't see them? Am I-"
Jasnah held up a hand. "These are a type of spren, Shallan. They are related to what you do." She tapped the desk softly. "Two orders of the Knights Radiant possessed inherent Soulcasing ability; it was based on their powers that the original fabirals were designed, I believe. I had assumed that you...But no, that obviously wouldn't make sense. I see now."
Am I remembering it wrong now?
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I'm pretty sure Surgebinding as we've seen it so far has referred to just the Lashings, like Jasnah wrote about in the Ars Arcanum. The prologue might indicate that there's a more destructive aspect to it as well.
The Windrunners were an order of the Knights Radiant, and they made use of two primary types of Surgebinding. The effects of these Surgebindings were known—colloquially among the members of the order—as the Three Lashings.
1. Basic/Reverse Lashings: "Gravitational Change/Giving an Object Gravitational Pull"
2. Full Lashing: "Binding Objects Together"
The stone ridges and mounds bore numerous scars. Some were shattered, blasted-out sections where Surgebinders had fought.
So other Orders probably had abilities categorized as "Surgebinding" as well. And we haven't seen it specified yet that only Honorspren can create Windrunners either.
2/10 Orders of Knights Radiants possessed inherent Soulcasting ability. Does that mean Knights from other Orders could learn to do it as well? We haven't seen enough to know if the two Orders manifest the Soulcasting in different ways. Maybe Jasnah goes straight to Shadesmar without having to volunteer a truth about herself like Shallan does, but if the effects are the same, should we really categorize them as different types of Soulcasting? Or there's an easier way to Soulcast than going to Shadesmar every time, otherwise I don't think Jasnah would be so blase about using it when she runs out of ink or needs a paperweight.
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The biggest mystery to me is whether Surgebinders can learn gravity and adhesion (and whatever the other surges are) as powers, or whether they have to learn the Windrunner package that comes with the Three Lashings, or one of the other packages. We know the Knights Radiant packaged the abilities up this way, and packaged it with ideology too, but the whole point of the Nohodon flashback is that there were Surgebinders and Soulcasters before it was codified into the Knights Radiant.
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Page 978
"What of the creatures with the symbol heads?" Shallan asked. She flipped through her sketches, then held up an image of them. "Do you see them too? How are they related?"
Jasnah frowned, taking the image, "You see beings like this? In Shadesmar?"
"They appear in my drawings," Shallan said. "They're around me, Jasnah. You don't see them? Am I-"
Jasnah held up a hand. "These are a type of spren, Shallan. They are related to what you do." She tapped the desk softly. "Two orders of the Knights Radiant possessed inherent Soulcasing ability; it was based on their powers that the original fabirals were designed, I believe. I had assumed that you...But no, that obviously wouldn't make sense. I see now."
Am I remembering it wrong now?
Apparently just reading it wrong. There's nothing in that quote that says that there are two different types of Soulcasting, and there's nothing that says Jasnah doesn't also deal with these spren. She was alarmed when she thought that Shallan saw them in Shadesmar, but that's not what Shallan meant. Even Shallan can't see them really; they only show up in her drawings.
2/10 Orders of Knights Radiants possessed inherent Soulcasting ability. Does that mean Knights from other Orders could learn to do it as well?
It depends on whether or not fabrial technology was in use at the time, probably. It appears as though each order of the Radiants had two abilities, and each ability was shared by two orders (hence the connections on the Double Eye chart).
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This is probably off-topic, but a thought occurred to me relevant to Spren, so this seemed like the place for it:
**Elantris Spoilers**
While saying in another thread "we can't be sure Seons are the splinters of a shard", I realized the Seons "bind" to people, much like spren apparently can. This makes me wonder if there's a correlation. Since there's theorizing of spren being splinters of the Almighty, it would further reinforce this connection.
-A shard needs a consciousness to wield. Over time, the consciousness becomes the shard.
-A splinter can obtain its own consciousness, but requires a host to realize it.
And that's all I've got.
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Page 978
"What of the creatures with the symbol heads?" Shallan asked. She flipped through her sketches, then held up an image of them. "Do you see them too? How are they related?"
Jasnah frowned, taking the image, "You see beings like this? In Shadesmar?"
"They appear in my drawings," Shallan said. "They're around me, Jasnah. You don't see them? Am I-"
Jasnah held up a hand. "These are a type of spren, Shallan. They are related to what you do." She tapped the desk softly. "Two orders of the Knights Radiant possessed inherent Soulcasing ability; it was based on their powers that the original fabirals were designed, I believe. I had assumed that you...But no, that obviously wouldn't make sense. I see now."
Am I remembering it wrong now?
Apparently just reading it wrong. There's nothing in that quote that says that there are two different types of Soulcasting, and there's nothing that says Jasnah doesn't also deal with these spren. She was alarmed when she thought that Shallan saw them in Shadesmar, but that's not what Shallan meant. Even Shallan can't see them really; they only show up in her drawings.
If there weren't two different types of Soulcasting, then why would they have two orders for them? One type of magic to an order makes a lot more sense than nine types with two orders of identical magic.
Regardless, this difference implies that there is a difference between how they use Soulcasting. Even if it is just the different things they can do with it. This could be enough to form a split in the magic that would make it worth separating into two orders of Knights.
2/10 Orders of Knights Radiants possessed inherent Soulcasting ability. Does that mean Knights from other Orders could learn to do it as well?
It depends on whether or not fabrial technology was in use at the time, probably. It appears as though each order of the Radiants had two abilities, and each ability was shared by two orders (hence the connections on the Double Eye chart).
I doubt that Knights not of the Soulcasting orders could do so without a Fabrial. The way Jasnah and Shallan do things rings more of inborn magic than learned.
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If there weren't two different types of Soulcasting, then why would they have two orders for them?
Like I said before, it seems like each Order shares a talent with two other Orders, which means that each Order has two talents, and each talent is shared by two orders. Check out the Double Eye:
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i111/Terez27/image2.png)
As you can see, each Order is connected to two other Orders, and also to the center of the chart. Of course, if you count the connections crossing the center, they are connected to three other Orders. Some (not me) have theorized that this has to do with the abilities they shared. It could also be that the smaller symbols refer to the Orders, or that it's more complicated than what has been proposed so far, but it's a pretty good theory as to the structure of the chart, and the significance of the paths.
Regardless, this difference implies that there is a difference between how they use Soulcasting.
I don't see how.
2/10 Orders of Knights Radiants possessed inherent Soulcasting ability. Does that mean Knights from other Orders could learn to do it as well?
It depends on whether or not fabrial technology was in use at the time, probably. It appears as though each order of the Radiants had two abilities, and each ability was shared by two orders (hence the connections on the Double Eye chart).
I doubt that Knights not of the Soulcasting orders could do so without a Fabrial.
Jasnah said that they could - their ability was inherent.
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Both Jasnah and Shallan need to visit Shadesmar to Soulcast, and they need to take Stormlight with them. It's not clear where the differences lie. Having to trade truths feels appropriate to Shash and Creative / Honest, and Jasnah may not trade truths. At the least, something about the symbol-head spren surprised Jasnah, and she had to pause to reason about it, concluding that Shallan had the powers of a different order. But once they get to Shadesmar, they're doing the same thing. Does everyone agree on this much at least?
As you can see, each Order is connected to two other Orders, and also to the center of the chart. Of course, if you count the connections crossing the center, they are connected to three other Orders. Some (not me) have theorized that this has to do with the abilities they shared. It could also be that the smaller symbols refer to the Orders, or that it's more complicated than what has been proposed so far, but it's a pretty good theory as to the structure of the chart, and the significance of the paths.
The placement of Soulcasting would be very different, depending on which set of circles is Orders. If the small circles are Orders, then Soulcasting is just one of the big circles, and the powers shared by two Orders. But if the large circles are Orders, Soulcasting could be the two in the middle.
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I wonder if Jasnah really needs to visit Shadesmar for smaller transmutations, or if there's some shortcut she can use. Visiting Shadesmar really seems like too big a deal to do over the minor things I've already listed (running out of ink and needing a paperweight.), plus it seems like it would be pretty disorienting to use when she killed those bandits.
I agree that once they get to Shadesmar they do the same thing, and that it produces the same effects. Pretty sure Fireborn disagrees.
Oh yeah, in the picture, the green on the bottom probably represents Jasnah's assumed Order (Palah, Learned/Giving (this is what it should be, according to Peter it was misprinted)) and the red to the left is Shallan's (Shash, Creative/Honest)
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I have difficulty deciding between Palah and Nah for Jasnah. She seems very proficient with smoke, and terrible with organic things, which suggests Nah. That would make her Just/Confident instead of Learned/Giving, but it still fits her character.
On the other hand, Vorin associates the double eye with the Almighty's creation of plants and animals. If Soulcasting is the two in the middle, that Pulp and Blood, or Palah and Shash, seems appropriate.
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Both Jasnah and Shallan need to visit Shadesmar to Soulcast, and they need to take Stormlight with them. It's not clear where the differences lie. Having to trade truths feels appropriate to Shash and Creative / Honest, and Jasnah may not trade truths. At the least, something about the symbol-head spren surprised Jasnah, and she had to pause to reason about it, concluding that Shallan had the powers of a different order. But once they get to Shadesmar, they're doing the same thing. Does everyone agree on this much at least?
I believe so. The main thing that was bothering me was the implication that there are two types of Soulcasting from the comment about the two Orders, when it seems to me that ten is more likely...and of course we know that much from the Ars Arcanum. It makes sense that certain people would be more attuned to certain Essences. I think that Jasnah's surprise is explained well enough by the fact that Shallan even saw them at all (she doesn't really, of course), and the assumption that she had seen them in Shadesmar (which she hadn't).
As you can see, each Order is connected to two other Orders, and also to the center of the chart. Of course, if you count the connections crossing the center, they are connected to three other Orders. Some (not me) have theorized that this has to do with the abilities they shared. It could also be that the smaller symbols refer to the Orders, or that it's more complicated than what has been proposed so far, but it's a pretty good theory as to the structure of the chart, and the significance of the paths.
The placement of Soulcasting would be very different, depending on which set of circles is Orders. If the small circles are Orders, then Soulcasting is just one of the big circles, and the powers shared by two Orders. But if the large circles are Orders, Soulcasting could be the two in the middle.
Yeah, it's a complicated question. I think I will start a new thread for it.
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Just commenting on the picture above.
What does that gem (ruby?) symbolise? I there any special readon it only surrounds 2 of the glyphs/essences?
Is it possibly that the smaller glyphs represent types of spren, and the lines connect them to the orders that these spren can bond to in order to give the Knights power?
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Just commenting on the picture above.
What does that gem (ruby?) symbolise? I there any special readon it only surrounds 2 of the glyphs/essences?
It is the Double Eye of the Almighty, with two pupils (it's discussed in the Ars Arcanum). The oldest version of it does not include the smaller ten glyphs:
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i111/Terez27/tenspears.png)
Which, along with other evidence, makes it most likely that the large ones represent the Heralds. The two in the center are emerald and heliodor, one of which can be used to make food, the other of which can be used to heal. This makes me think that heliodor is the stone not used for currency at all; it is too valuable.
Is it possibly that the smaller glyphs represent types of spren, and the lines connect them to the orders that these spren can bond to in order to give the Knights power?
I think they are more likely to represent the orders, since they share powers between them.
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Just commenting on the picture above.
What does that gem (ruby?) symbolise? I there any special readon it only surrounds 2 of the glyphs/essences?
It is the Double Eye of the Almighty, with two pupils (it's discussed in the Ars Arcanum). The oldest version of it does not include the smaller ten glyphs:
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i111/Terez27/tenspears.png)
Which, along with other evidence, makes it most likely that the large ones represent the Heralds. The two in the center are emerald and heliodor, one of which can be used to make food, the other of which can be used to heal. This makes me think that heliodor is the stone not used for currency at all; it is too valuable.
I was refering specifically the the red gem in that picture. I realised that the picture as a whole was the double eye of the almighty, however that middle gem seemed to represent something special.
Is it possibly that the smaller glyphs represent types of spren, and the lines connect them to the orders that these spren can bond to in order to give the Knights power?
I think they are more likely to represent the orders, since they share powers between them.
I also think it is strange the talenel introduced himself as stonesinew in the epilogue, refering himself to 2 essences. Thus i began wondering if those smaller glyphs might also represent the heralds. But then that conflicts with each order being established by 1 herald. Now confused! ???
So what is it: Spren, Order or Herald?
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I was refering specifically the the red gem in that picture.
It doesn't seem to have the same structural significance as the other spheres. In this one, it serves as the background of the pupils - the iris of the eye, I suppose - but in the other one, it is a background for the face. It reminds me of the red sun from one of the death quotes.
I also think it is strange the talenel introduced himself as stonesinew in the epilogue, refering himself to 2 essences.
Well, Sinew is an Essence (that of Ishar), but stone is the soulcasting property of Taln's stone - topaz. He is connected to Sinew in the Eye, and sinew is secondary in his title, so perhaps each Herald has a special connection to another (might be male-female connections).
Thus i began wondering if those smaller glyphs might also represent the heralds. But then that conflicts with each order being established by 1 herald. Now confused! ???
Was each order established by one Herald? In any case, it doesn't necessarily conflict. I don't think we have quite enough information to figure out every detail just yet.
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Well, Sinew is an Essence (that of Ishar), but stone is the soulcasting property of Taln's stone - topaz. He is connected to Sinew in the Eye, and sinew is secondary in his title, so perhaps each Herald has a special connection to another (might be male-female connections).
I like the male-female connection, except I think Ishar is a guy (from herald pictures).
Was each order established by one Herald? In any case, it doesn't necessarily conflict. I don't think we have quite enough information to figure out every detail just yet.
Each herald being based on an order is established as each order name is a shaortened version of the herals names (e.g. Jes = Jezriem). I also remember reading that each order was founded by a different Herald.
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Well, Sinew is an Essence (that of Ishar), but stone is the soulcasting property of Taln's stone - topaz. He is connected to Sinew in the Eye, and sinew is secondary in his title, so perhaps each Herald has a special connection to another (might be male-female connections).
I like the male-female connection, except I think Ishar is a guy (from herald pictures).
Is there something official linking the pictures with the names? Or perhaps some reason I'm missing?
Was each order established by one Herald? In any case, it doesn't necessarily conflict. I don't think we have quite enough information to figure out every detail just yet.
Each herald being based on an order is established as each order name is a shaortened version of the herals names (e.g. Jes = Jezriem). I also remember reading that each order was founded by a different Herald.
Those are names of numbers, not names of Orders - those have names like Windrunners and Stonewards. I'm not claiming to be an expert, but I don't remember reading that each order was founded by a different Herald...just that the Heralds founded the Radiants.
Edit: Nevermind...I think I see what you are getting at. Stonewards=Taln and Windrunners=Jezrien because of Soulcasting properties (and also gem colors - the Stonewards glow amber and the Windrunners glow blue).
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Read this post.
http://www.timewastersguide.com/forum/index.php?topic=7910.0
Theres nothing 100% official. But the theory is well supported and I think it is likely correct.
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I have seen that post, but I don't see how the gemstones are connected to the faces - I assume that's what he means by 'male' and 'female' images. It seems he is basing it off the assumption that Ishar sounds like a male name to him.
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I have seen that post, but I don't see how the gemstones are connected to the faces - I assume that's what he means by 'male' and 'female' images. It seems he is basing it off the assumption that Ishar sounds like a male name to him.
The faces are placed to correspond with a certain element. Thus link element with face. Also each element/order name is an abbreviation of a Herald. It thus becomes somewhat easier to work out which 5 are male and which 5 are female.
Also, to me Ishar sounds like Isaac.
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I never said that Shallan and Jasnah do different things. They do the same thing, but in different ways. Jasnah lacks ability with organic things, where Shallan, with her obvious connection to blood, would probably develop a specialty for it.
The red gem doesn't really relate to this conversation, the picture is from the wrong page. I'm pretty sure the other side represents the orders, with their connection to the Herald images.
As far as we know, every other magic type used by the Radiants has only one order, so I'd assume that Soulcasting would only get one unless there is some specific difference between the use of it. It may be the same difference we get between Shallan and Jasnah, proficiencies with different essences, but it is probably more than that. Also, the orders seem to each have a different type of spren bonded to them, this may be what separates the two.
Concerning Taln calling himself Stonesinew, this is probably used to say "muscles of stone", thus making the connection with his own essence stronger. The name is a complete thought, rather than two separate things put together. It's like saying that someone with a title like Dragonslayer has something to do with dragons and with killing but not necessarily killing dragons.
Did anyone else notice that one of the line connections on the chart is between Amethyst and Ruby? These two are the gems used for the conjoined fabrials.
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Was each order established by one Herald? In any case, it doesn't necessarily conflict. I don't think we have quite enough information to figure out every detail just yet.
I agree we do not have enough information, my guess would be that though it might be tied to the Heralds, that it might also be tied to what type of Spren that they are attached to. Which may have been originally determined by the Heralds.
We know that Syl is a binding Spren, and an Honorspren.
Nahal: Definition
The name Nile (Greek: Neilos) is thought to be ultimately derived from the Semitic Nahal meaning "river" from which the Hebrew nachal is derived
-to lead or guide to a watering place, bring to a place of rest, refresh
-carry, feed, guide, lead gently, on
-A primitive root; properly, to run with a sparkle, i.e. Flow; hence (transitively), to conduct, and (by inference) to protect, sustain -- carry, feed, guide, lead (gently, on).
Heb. nahal, in winter a "torrent," in summer a "wady" or
valley (Gen. 32:23; Deut. 2:24; 3:16; Isa. 30:28; Lam. 2:18;
Ezek. 47:9).
Nahar, a "river" continuous and full, a perennial stream,
as the Jordan, the Euphrates (Gen. 2:10; 15:18; Deut. 1:7; Ps.
66:6; Ezek. 10:15).
http://tinyurl.com/2fp292a
The Arab root nahal has the meaning of quenching ones thirst. the noun manhal - a watering place in the desert.
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As far as we know, every other magic type used by the Radiants has only one order
I am not aware of any evidence that suggests this. Perhaps you could point me in the right direction?
@FollowYourMuse - Isn't it Nahel? In any case, it looks like you probably got the source right - 'Nahel' doesn't bring up much.
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@FollowYourMuse - Isn't it Nahel? In any case, it looks like you probably got the source right - 'Nahel' doesn't bring up much.
I couldnt find much on Nahel either, but I wouldnt think it would be an exact thing anyway
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Well, seems I was wrong, look at that.
If you go to 17th Shard they have the interview with Brandon up. He says that each order has a connection to TWO magic systems. On the inside cover the big circles are orders and the smaller circles are magic systems. This is BRILLIANT. I've never been more pleased to be wrong.
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Well, seems I was wrong, look at that.
If you go to 17th Shard they have the interview with Brandon up. He says that each order has a connection to TWO magic systems.
Yeah, that's what we were saying earlier.
On the inside cover the big circles are orders and the smaller circles are magic systems.
That is good to know.
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Well, that was one idea of many we had. It's nice to have confirmation, though.
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The picture above is of the back cover not the front cover. I think the back cover may correspond to the voidbringers as opposed to the heralds! Notice how the symbols don't "quite" match up...
Take a look here. I've mapped the heralds with their colors and symbols. I'm pretty sure they are right as the correspond to all information we have including the decals of the symbols available from Brandon's website.
I then guessed and put in soulcasting, given that we know Jasnah and Shallan can both do it, differently.
http://stormlightarchive.wikia.com/wiki/File:Heralds.jpg
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An interesting difference between the front and back covers is that the "big two" in the middle have lines going to little circles in the front one, but not in the back one.
That changes my motive for seeing the middle two as Soulcasting. I thought of Soulcasting as being something connected to everything, instead of connected to 2 powers, which is sort of what's going on in the back cover. But by the front cover, the middle two aren't so special and are still connected to 2 powers each like everything else.
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Well, we know that only two orders had inherent Soulcasting ability. Also, we can expect that one of those is the Garnet, since that's what Shallan's focus seemse to be. I'd be inclined to say Smokestone as the other one because of Jasnah, but none of the small circles connect to both Garnet and Smokestone. But, interestingly enough, there is a line connecting the two, it just doesn't connect to one of the small circles. What's the connection there?
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Well, we know that only two orders had inherent Soulcasting ability. Also, we can expect that one of those is the Garnet, since that's what Shallan's focus seemse to be. I'd be inclined to say Smokestone as the other one because of Jasnah, but none of the small circles connect to both Garnet and Smokestone. But, interestingly enough, there is a line connecting the two, it just doesn't connect to one of the small circles. What's the connection there?
Jasnah's herald / order is Palah / Emerald. Both because Palah appears in Jasnah's chapters (see the thread on Heralds in chapter titles) and because Palah is Learned/Giving which clearly describes Jasnah. In another thread Peter points out that the attributes for Nan and Palah are wrong and are swapped in the ars arcanum.
There *is* a small circle connecting garnet and emerald which I highlighted in my graphic above as soulcasting.
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I was looking at the epigraphs and Herald icons yesterday and saw that, yes, Palah shows up much more than Nan in Jasnah's chapters, so I'm inclined to agree.
But then what's the connection between Garnet and Smokestone? The only thing I have to compare it with is the line between Amethyst and Ruby. This connection has a possible reason; Ruby and Amethyst are the two gems used to make Pairing fabrials (Ruby as Conjoiners and Amethyst as Reversers). So does it have something to do with fabrials?
Also, we know that one of the Windunner systems is Lashings, but what other powers do honorspren grant that we're not aware of?
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Could it just be the body/speed/agility strengthening effect that they get from holding stormlight? Doesn't really seem to have a system to it though, so maybe not.
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Also, we know that one of the Windunner systems is Lashings, but what other powers do honorspren grant that we're not aware of?
The Lashings may not be a single system, since the Full Lashing is different and uses adhesion instead of gravity. The question then is why Windrunners can only do these three things, instead of having a whole variety of skills using either power.
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It may be that the two magic systems merge together to create a specific powerset.
And didn't it say that Full Lashings may have something to do with atmospheric pressure?
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Perhaps the two different types of lashing are actually two magic systems. If that's the case, I expect there is a lot more to be learned about both of them, even if Szeth appears to know about as much as is possible in the current era.
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Perhaps there's another Lashing for forcing things apart, although that doesn't really deserve that name "lashing"......
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Perhaps there's another Lashing for forcing things apart, although that doesn't really deserve that name "lashing"......
I could see that being another type of magic system. One magic to attract things, another magic to repel things.
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Errr, why do people think Shallan only sees the creepy triangle-headed spren in her drawngs? I'm pretty sure she looked around the room sometimes and would see them out of the corner of her eye. A specific scene I remember without my book on me, is when she is running through the halls as though chased by them. It might be plausible that drawing STIMULATES the vision of them (if drawing is connected to her "Order", then maybe its the act of artistic ability that attracts the spren). We know that spren are attracted to certain things, hence where they get their sub names (honorspren, lifespren, deathspren), so why can't there be artistic spren, that are associated with an artistic Order of the Knights Radient.
This might explain why Jasnah can't see these spren (she isn't artistic, and isn't of the same Order as Shallan).
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Truthspren or Honestyspren, as they seek truths. I doubt they are artspren, as we already have creativespren (was that what they were called?) that appear when she draws the picture of Jasnah.
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creationspren yep.
I think Jasnah does see them somehow, since she recognized them,but she doesn't see them the same way Shallan does, since she doesn't draw much.
and yeah, she started seeing them out of the corner of her eye in the hospital after she Soulcast the goblet.
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Ahh yeah, I forgot about the creationspren being visible when she draws sometimes. So I guess it is a spren specific to Soulcasting, but is seen at different times for different people. Jasnah doesn't see them in the same way that Shallan sees them, I'm guessing because of their different Order. We will have to see what else we can learn about Spren in general I suppose, to find out exactly how they are attracted.
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Ahh yeah, I forgot about the creationspren being visible when she draws sometimes. So I guess it is a spren specific to Soulcasting, but is seen at different times for different people. Jasnah doesn't see them in the same way that Shallan sees them, I'm guessing because of their different Order. We will have to see what else we can learn about Spren in general I suppose, to find out exactly how they are attracted.
Spren seem to be attracted to whatever causes them. Or they're the reason things happen. Either way, I suspect that for Jasnah and Shallan, they were attracted to their rigorous intellectual honesty. Not honesty with other people, mind, but their love of scholarship.