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Local Authors => Brandon Sanderson => Topic started by: Stormblessed on September 20, 2010, 11:28:19 AM

Title: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Stormblessed on September 20, 2010, 11:28:19 AM
For years sprens have been abused, imprisoned in fabriels and overworked without pay. Recently, we have had confirmed intelligence relating to the abuse of sprens on Roshar.

Quote
The cut and type of the gem determines what kind of spren are attracted to it and can be imprisoned in it.

Action must be taken to stop the abuse of spren. This post will be devoted entirely to bringing rights for spren to Roshar.

Any theories on how spren are captured, and how they are used to function fabriels should be posted here if we are ever going to stop this. Any sightings of spren should also be posted here, along with any theories regarding the type of spren, and where they come from.

If anyone wishes to contribute ideas regarding t-shirts designs that will help spread the word about this mass abuse of rights, please post your ideas here.

However, our first mission is to choose a catchy name and slogan in order to get people interested in recruiting people to help protect the spren population.

I sincerely hope more people join me in my campaign.
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Omelethead on September 20, 2010, 04:23:01 PM
Preposterous! Abuse? It is no fault of ours if spren are attracted to our property. This argument is a slippery slope. What's next? Do we close down windmills* because they rely on windspren to function? Discourage the experience and expression of emotion because emotions attract fearspren or gloryspren? Ban the sale of alcoholic beverages to stop the oppression of drunkspren?

There is no evidence to suggest spren are imprisoned in fabriels against their will. If they are attracted to certain gems, there must be some benefit or profit they hope to receive. Indeed, it may be that the spren that are "imprisoned" are the spren who were fortunate enough to gain exclusive access to the gem.


I move for this petition to be dismissed as frivolous and unnecessary.



*I do not know if windmills are used in Roshar, and in fact I suspect that they are not. Perhaps in the west, in Shinovar or elsewhere, but in all likelihood, they are not practical.
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: guy on September 20, 2010, 07:39:48 PM
If spren are captive in the jewels, what happens when they break? Do the spren die? I dont think we can go through with this untill we know all the facts
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Tangletalon on September 21, 2010, 12:39:36 AM
Not another SPEW (from Harry Potter)! Remember that most spren are free to do what they like.
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Stormblessed on September 21, 2010, 05:23:29 AM
I just really want to see the spren rebel. They are obviously pivotal to the functioning of Roshar, and the conduit of the Knight Radiants powers. Its just not right that such carefree and powerful spirits should be imprisoned so some egotistical bastard lighteyes can have his dinner cooked for him without using a fire.

(P.S. this post is meant to be some light humour as well as a place that people can post theories about different spren. Don't take it too seriously, but please don't be afraid to play along ;))
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Harakeke on September 21, 2010, 05:31:33 AM
I will be monitoring this thread for the appearance of spren-rights spren. 

...
The existence of such "meta-spren", could revolutionize the science of fabrial creation.  (Muahahaha.)
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Omelethead on September 21, 2010, 05:40:55 AM
I just really want to see the spren rebel. They are obviously pivotal to the functioning of Roshar, and the conduit of the Knight Radiants powers. Its just not right that such carefree and powerful spirits should be imprisoned so some egotistical bastard lighteyes can have his dinner cooked for him without using a fire.

(P.S. this post is meant to be some light humour as well as a place that people can post theories about different spren. Don't take it too seriously, but please don't be afraid to play along ;))

Heh, I was trying my hand at being an evil corporate lawyer. I got that this was supposed to be light-hearted, and I was trying to disagree while playing along.

However, I don't think fabriels are inherently wrong because they "imprison" spren. For whatever reason, spren are attracted to certain things. If a certain type of gem attracts a certain type of spren, that is not wrong. If that spren is then tied to the gem in a more permanent manner, that's not necessarily bad either. After all, we could very well say that Roshar is a massive fabriel designed to capture and use gravityspren to hold things together, and hold people to the surface.

And as for your egotistical lighteyes: if he cooked his food with a fire then he would be using flamespren to heat his meal. Fabriels simply mirror natural processes and forces. They're just much more efficient.
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Stormblessed on September 21, 2010, 05:45:59 AM
If spren are captive in the jewels, what happens when they break? Do the spren die? I dont think we can go through with this untill we know all the facts

I have already read a theory which postulates that the spren that follow Shallan (honestspren?) may have come from here father's destroyed soulcaster. So it may be possible. Of course if this is the case, we must immediately set out destroying fabriels. We must show these lighteyed Alethi noblemen that we are serious about freedom for spren!

Heh, I was trying my hand at being an evil corporate lawyer. I got that this was supposed to be light-hearted, and I was trying to disagree while playing along.

That statement wasn't directed at anyone in specific. I just wanted to make sure that people who visited this post didn't think we were crazy people that believed that Roshar and spren actually exist, and would actually play along. When I read your post I was like lol this person knows exactly what I'm doing.
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Never on September 22, 2010, 09:30:06 PM
I think it's very clear that spren hate strawberries. The first thing to do if we want to uphold the rights of spren everywhere is to eliminate all strawberries, especially those in a jam form.
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: rjl on September 23, 2010, 10:29:59 AM
I think it's very clear that spren hate strawberries. The first thing to do if we want to uphold the rights of spren everywhere is to eliminate all strawberries, especially those in a jam form.
I don't know ehere you get that one from. A rights for spren campaign would involve banning fabrials bassically...
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Kykeon on September 23, 2010, 10:59:18 AM
Preposterous! Abuse? It is no fault of ours if spren are attracted to our property. This argument is a slippery slope. What's next? Do we close down windmills* because they rely on windspren to function? Discourage the experience and expression of emotion because emotions attract fearspren or gloryspren? Ban the sale of alcoholic beverages to stop the oppression of drunkspren?

There is no evidence to suggest spren are imprisoned in fabriels against their will. If they are attracted to certain gems, there must be some benefit or profit they hope to receive. Indeed, it may be that the spren that are "imprisoned" are the spren who were fortunate enough to gain exclusive access to the gem.


I move for this petition to be dismissed as frivolous and unnecessary.


I must concur!
As we have seen spren are "bound" *rolls his eyes in disdain and flashes a quick, mocking smile towards the assembly* simply by observing them.
In fact, I would go so far and say that they benefit from our attentions, and that more funding for the artefabrian community is necessary.
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: guy on September 23, 2010, 08:58:19 PM
I think we should actively try to trap the spren, what if we were able to trap all the bad spren, no deathspren=no death, no rotspren=no rot, because as everybody knows the spren cause the things they are associated to.  In fact lets go for broke and try to trap ALL the spren, then we can experience their properties whenever WE want to, rather than waiting for spren to show up
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Munin on September 23, 2010, 10:24:55 PM
I think we should actively try to trap the spren, what if we were able to trap all the bad spren, no deathspren=no death, no rotspren=no rot, because as everybody knows the spren cause the things they are associated to.  In fact lets go for broke and try to trap ALL the spren, then we can experience their properties whenever WE want to, rather than waiting for spren to show up
You assume that they're the cause of these things, rather than a side effect.
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Never on September 24, 2010, 07:56:57 AM
I think it's very clear that spren hate strawberries. The first thing to do if we want to uphold the rights of spren everywhere is to eliminate all strawberries, especially those in a jam form.
I don't know ehere you get that one from. A rights for spren campaign would involve banning fabrials bassically...

What is the only place Strawberries come from?
What is the only place without spren?

Obviously, spren hate strawberries.
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Stormblessed on September 24, 2010, 07:58:06 AM
I think we should actively try to trap the spren, what if we were able to trap all the bad spren, no deathspren=no death, no rotspren=no rot, because as everybody knows the spren cause the things they are associated to.  In fact lets go for broke and try to trap ALL the spren, then we can experience their properties whenever WE want to, rather than waiting for spren to show up

Also don't forget about the circle of life. If things don't die this will cause overpopulation, famine, spread of diseases etc.
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Stormblessed on September 24, 2010, 07:59:01 AM
I think it's very clear that spren hate strawberries. The first thing to do if we want to uphold the rights of spren everywhere is to eliminate all strawberries, especially those in a jam form.
I don't know ehere you get that one from. A rights for spren campaign would involve banning fabrials bassically...

What is the only place Strawberries come from?
What is the only place without spren?

Obviously, spren hate strawberries.

I like that reasoning!! :D
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: guy on September 24, 2010, 05:41:33 PM
alright youve convinced me we cant trap all spren, but what about painspren, fearspren and intoxicationspren?  There must be tons of things out there that we can get rid of maybe there is a sociopathspren, or crimespren, we could make a mostly perfect world ;D
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Winterdawn Lor'ee on September 25, 2010, 12:35:04 AM
When you do come up with a motto for this, and we make Rights for Spren t-shirts, we should wear them and have a Walk for Spren!  5K would be a good start.  *nods*  In the meantime, we can stage protests.  I'll bring the posterboard to make our signs if somebody else can bring markers and poles to attach the posters.
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Tasslehoof on September 25, 2010, 01:27:00 AM
alright youve convinced me we cant trap all spren, but what about painspren, fearspren and intoxicationspren?  There must be tons of things out there that we can get rid of maybe there is a sociopathspren, or crimespren, we could make a mostly perfect world ;D

Crimespren would be cool, especially if you were a cop.. totally easy to catch people if spren are flying around them :P
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Morsker on September 25, 2010, 03:51:42 AM
I'd totally create a fabrial that hid crimespren then. I'd be rich!
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Stormblessed on September 25, 2010, 08:13:23 AM
We would need a device to see spren. Most spren cannot be seen, unless by people with special abilities (e.g. Rock). Maybe if crimespren exist then Rock can see them, and then he would get an honoured place in the police force.

I would love to get some t-shirts going, but I can't think of anything really good. Any ideas anyone?
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: guy on September 27, 2010, 06:02:16 PM
I think a fabrial that allows you to see spren would only show the kind that were trapped in its particular gems, so what we need to do is figure out how to pack a plethora of spren into every individual gem
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Stormblessed on September 28, 2010, 02:02:31 AM
I think a fabrial that allows you to see spren would only show the kind that were trapped in its particular gems, so what we need to do is figure out how to pack a plethora of spren into every individual gem

I was thinking of a device that ran spren-free, maybe utilising a power from a different shard.
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: guy on September 28, 2010, 07:42:57 PM
or just on stormlight? if it is good enough to power shardplade it is probably good enough to power shardglasses, that is what youwould call them right?
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Stormblessed on September 29, 2010, 12:43:45 AM
or just on stormlight? if it is good enough to power shardplade it is probably good enough to power shardglasses, that is what youwould call them right?
Of course! Further tests will be needed, but manufacturing of shardglasses will begin imminently. I will contact my sources on Roshar.
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: guy on September 29, 2010, 06:03:24 PM
If we can use shardglasses to see spren can we use sharblades to kill them? Ah, it makes sense! the real reason syl didnt like dalinar sharblade is because it could kill her!
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Stormblessed on October 08, 2010, 07:24:31 AM
Recently, a theory has been circulating that implies that Greatshell beasts, such as chasmfiends, imprison spren inside their gemhearts in order help carry their bulky exoskeleton. (What sort of spren do you think they are? Strengthspren? Wildspren?) There have been sightings of strange spren surrounding dying Chasmfiends. Could these be the spren freed from their imprisonment in a gemheart?

If this rumour is true, action must be taken!!
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: CabbyHat on October 08, 2010, 07:28:12 AM
Recently, a theory has been circulating that implies that Greatshell beasts, such as chasmfiends, imprison spren inside their gemhearts in order help carry their bulky exoskeleton.

Joking aside, that's actually an interesting theory... is there another thread discussing that?
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Stormblessed on October 08, 2010, 07:33:06 AM
Recently, a theory has been circulating that implies that Greatshell beasts, such as chasmfiends, imprison spren inside their gemhearts in order help carry their bulky exoskeleton.

Joking aside, that's actually an interesting theory... is there another thread discussing that?

I believe you can find it in the WOK: Horses post, bout page 2 or so:
http://www.timewastersguide.com/forum/index.php?topic=7944.0
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Omelethead on October 08, 2010, 04:20:47 PM
Recently, a theory has been circulating that implies that Greatshell beasts, such as chasmfiends, imprison spren inside their gemhearts in order help carry their bulky exoskeleton. (What sort of spren do you think they are? Strengthspren? Wildspren?) There have been sightings of strange spren surrounding dying Chasmfiends. Could these be the spren freed from their imprisonment in a gemheart?

If this rumour is true, action must be taken!!

And here the hypocrisy comes out. You would kill a living breathing animal simply to "free" a force of nature? What's next, killing skyeels because they move by "enslaving" windspren?

I suspect this petition is sponsored not by caring individuals who want a full investigation into the ethical treatment of spren, but by a coalition of merchants and businessmen who wish to ban fabriels out of greed. Without soulcast food and materials, we would be forced to rely on them for everything we ever use. Instead of instant and effective communication by spanreed, we'd go back to the days of sending letters by-surprise!-merchants.
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Harakeke on October 08, 2010, 07:45:11 PM
Hear hear!  And who's to say those Storming merchants will stop at taking away our fabrials, once we're wholly dependent on their coalition?  What's next -- free all the slaves!?  ::)
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Omelethead on October 08, 2010, 10:14:07 PM
Likely they'll try requiring permits to own or use chulls. An individual would be forced to demonstrate they know how to care for them, and treat them ethically before owning beasts of burden. Obviously, each applicant would be judged by a council of merchants, keeping any aspiring entrepreneur from competing with the already-established and approved businesses.


It figures. Just as we are at the dawn of a new age of wonderful technology, with boundless possibilities of prosperity and freedoms to follow, those afraid of change will use any method they can to maintain their grip on the world.

Rights for spren indeed.  ::)
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Stormblessed on October 09, 2010, 12:09:27 AM
Spren should be free to choose who they want to bond to. Is it a world of amazing technology, if the system is based on slavery of a population. With freedom will come even better technology. Instead of fabrials, we will have Knights Radiants!! Think of the glory!!

Anyway, on the Greatshell debate, I have reason to believe (though to proof) that they may be related to Thunderclasts and voidbinding. If that is the case then we should not be afraid to cull them. Take Chull's for example. They seem docile, and we really on them for pulling great weights, but if suddenly some force was able to change them, make them hateful, then they would be deadly. Think of the parshmen/parshendi/voidbringer relation.
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Omelethead on October 09, 2010, 01:05:52 AM
Spren should be free to choose who they want to bond to. Is it a world of amazing technology, if the system is based on slavery of a population. With freedom will come even better technology. Instead of fabrials, we will have Knights Radiants!! Think of the glory!!

Spren can't choose. It takes a measure of intelligence to make a true choice. Except for a few unconfirmed cases, no spren has ever displayed the intelligence of an axehound, a chull, nor even a chicken!

Spren are only ever seen near the things they are attracted to or responsible for (depending on one's position in that debate). Let's say, for the sake of argument, that spren do possess some type of sentience, or even sapience. Who is to say spren aren't free to choose who or what they bond to? If gems attract spren, then (as I have said before) the spren must benefit in some way.

I don't see any outcry over the "imprisonment" of Stormlight within fabriels or gems. After all, what merchant or moneylender would want anything to threaten the vital service they offer when recharging dun spheres.

Anyway, on the Greatshell debate, I have reason to believe (though to proof) that they may be related to Thunderclasts and voidbinding. If that is the case then we should not be afraid to cull them. Take Chull's for example. They seem docile, and we really on them for pulling great weights, but if suddenly some force was able to change them, make them hateful, then they would be deadly. Think of the parshmen/parshendi/voidbringer relation.

Innocent until proven guilty. It seems strange that a civilized and progressive man such as yourself would forget such a basic concept.
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Stormblessed on October 09, 2010, 01:11:20 AM
If you want an intelligent spren, look at Syl, or the truthspren that follow Shallan around.

We have suspicion, and that is enough to tell us that we must at least take precautions. We should at least phase out the use of parshmen and chull's to protect us from any unexpected revolution. In addition, we have our cheif researcher (Jasnah) building evidence to support our case. It will not be long before we have proof to decide whether they are guilty or not.

A civilised man must still be wise. Just because we believe in innocence before guilt, doesn't mean we can't be cautious.
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Omelethead on October 14, 2010, 01:12:40 AM
Sorry, I was speaking in-world. Other than the Horneaters and now Kaladin (possibly Bridge 4), no one believes spren are intelligent.

And I would point out that it wasn't until Syl was bonded to Kaladin for a while that she really achieved sapience. So perhaps bonding spren with fabriels and gems helps them to grow and evolve.

If you want an intelligent spren, look at Syl, or the truthspren that follow Shallan around.

We have suspicion, and that is enough to tell us that we must at least take precautions. We should at least phase out the use of parshmen and chull's to protect us from any unexpected revolution. In addition, we have our cheif researcher (Jasnah) building evidence to support our case. It will not be long before we have proof to decide whether they are guilty or not.

And what would they do with the Parshmen and Chulls? They couldn't survive on their own. Investigation is needed, and precautions should be taken, but they can't just be phased out and abandoned.

A civilised man must still be wise. Just because we believe in innocence before guilt, doesn't mean we can't be cautious.

Very true. But killing off all the chasmfiends or chulls or parshmen/Parshendi, just in case, is far beyond being cautious.
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Castleguard on October 14, 2010, 12:22:34 PM
Reading this I just thought of something.

I think there should be 2 classifications of Spren. Intelligent spren those who have a direct role in magics such as surgebinding. And all other Spren which I believe more or less are not intelligent. Furthermore I say that Fabrial science as known now is most likely only using the more common Spren. It seems that most people don't even have knowledge of the more powerful spren which the magic systems are based on. If this is true then perhaps a more intelligent spren such as an honor spren could make a more powerful fabrial then is now known.

My guess as of right now are there are 10 special spren that are above all other spren which would be the common spren.
Could it be possible that these 10 spren that are above all others are used to make sharblades? This would make a shardblade an even greater evil as spren such as honorspren are self aware. Is it possible that these spren willingly sacrificed themselves to stop the voidbringers? If this is so could it be that a spren would see the blatant misuse of sharblades to kill humans as a great sin and tragedy. Perhaps the greatest sin against the spren is the misuse of shardblades.

Forgive my wild theories but it sure is fun to come up with this stuff.
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Stormblessed on October 14, 2010, 02:27:58 PM
Which is exactly why I made this post.  ;D

I like your idea, but extending it, I remember reading a post about the spren of Heralds. Some people have theorised that Heralds have 'superspren', even more powerful than intelligent spren. Remember that large spren that Axies the Collector saw in Kasitor. There is definitely something strange happening there. Why do we get a spen who is enormous, but likely one of its kind, yet at the other time get thousands of tiny spren?
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: cromptj on October 14, 2010, 10:47:46 PM
Probably to balance out the material that was used to create the spren 1 giant one 1000s tiny of ones. Or maybe, following those people who measured spren, someone had defined it so that it stayed the same size and always appeared at the same time.
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Omelethead on October 15, 2010, 01:30:39 AM
Probably to balance out the material that was used to create the spren 1 giant one 1000s tiny of ones. Or maybe, following those people who measured spren, someone had defined it so that it stayed the same size and always appeared at the same time.

That's interesting. I wonder if a long time ago, some random fisherman made up a story about the bay (or just exaggerated a story), about a giant wave-like spren, and over the years, as people moved into the bay, and the details and story got fleshed out, the spren was locked into the same size and routine. Heck, maybe the fisherman saw a huge wave, and enough mystery and folklore got attached to the story a spren popped up.

I wonder how many spren got assigned to their object/force/emotion because people expected them to be tied to it, and so they "measured" it. Maybe that's why intoxicationspren are inconsistent. Whats-his-name hasn't worked everything out or spread the word.
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Stormblessed on October 15, 2010, 01:38:20 AM
Self-fulfilling prophecy  :D
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: cromptj on October 15, 2010, 05:55:08 PM
I think most of the spren (ie not the "superspren") are the spiritual embodiment of physical world concepts and objects. Maybe, because most people think that the spren are splinters of the Almighty's shard, the spren are somehow related to the creation of roshar. ie the Almighty reated it and the power he used is still attuned to the planet.
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Erunion on October 15, 2010, 06:12:02 PM
Probably to balance out the material that was used to create the spren 1 giant one 1000s tiny of ones. Or maybe, following those people who measured spren, someone had defined it so that it stayed the same size and always appeared at the same time.

That's interesting. I wonder if a long time ago, some random fisherman made up a story about the bay (or just exaggerated a story), about a giant wave-like spren, and over the years, as people moved into the bay, and the details and story got fleshed out, the spren was locked into the same size and routine. Heck, maybe the fisherman saw a huge wave, and enough mystery and folklore got attached to the story a spren popped up.

I wonder how many spren got assigned to their object/force/emotion because people expected them to be tied to it, and so they "measured" it. Maybe that's why intoxicationspren are inconsistent. Whats-his-name hasn't worked everything out or spread the word.

Keep in mind, the Spren Studiers proved that you had to actually observe and measure the spren. Just writing down a random number didn't work. So at one point that superspren did all the actions that it does now, and someone wrote it down. And now it's stuck. 
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Omelethead on October 15, 2010, 08:15:35 PM
Keep in mind, the Spren Studiers proved that you had to actually observe and measure the spren. Just writing down a random number didn't work. So at one point that superspren did all the actions that it does now, and someone wrote it down. And now it's stuck. 

True. Which means the original story or tale probably did have some seed of truth. But the exact nature and details about this superspren almost have to come from it being expected and measured.
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Castleguard on October 16, 2010, 05:40:23 AM
I wonder if Hoid measured the super spren.

Also if it is a set pattern then it seems like you would have had to measure the spren 2x. This way you could have the amount of time that passes between the two appearances as part of your measurement. Then having been measured that way it would continue to repeat every time at the same time.

In fact this could be another way to use spren. Hmm Spren must go somewhere else when they are not in the physical world. I wonder if you could give something to a spren to hide. If you had already made and recorded an observation of a spren appearing more then once could you then give something to the spren and make a second record of what you gave the spren. This way if you know when the spren will appear you could get back what ever you gave to the spren. 



Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Stormblessed on October 16, 2010, 05:42:19 AM
I assume they would be some sort of aspect of the cognitive realm. Maybe the intelligent spren are also influenced by the spiritual realm?
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Liralyn on October 16, 2010, 06:06:00 AM
It seemed like Syl lost her intelligence when she was not near or bonded with Kaladin.  Perhaps being used in fabrials increases the sentience of spren 'imprisoned' within them, so the spren would prefer to be in a fabrial than bonded to nothing. 
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Stormblessed on October 16, 2010, 06:12:39 AM
The intelligence may come from a mutual bonding, not a forced one. In fact, I'm sure of it, as Syl gets her power from the honour of Kaladin. If she was forced to bond someone without honour, her intellect would not change.
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Omelethead on October 16, 2010, 03:51:41 PM
The intelligence may come from a mutual bonding, not a forced one. In fact, I'm sure of it, as Syl gets her power from the honour of Kaladin. If she was forced to bond someone without honour, her intellect would not change.

Who says fabriels force bonds?
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Liralyn on October 16, 2010, 11:23:10 PM
The intelligence may come from a mutual bonding, not a forced one. In fact, I'm sure of it, as Syl gets her power from the honour of Kaladin. If she was forced to bond someone without honour, her intellect would not change.

I agree.  I mean specifically that it's possible that the spren gain a little intelligence from the fabrials, but nothing like Syl does with Kaladin.  It begs the question if a little is better than nothing.  If they don't have someone like Kaladin, then perhaps they're willing to settle for the fabrial gemstones.

 Of course, it is entirely possible that the spren are trapped unwillingly.
Title: Re: Rights For Spren!!!! (minor spoilers)
Post by: Stormblessed on October 17, 2010, 02:49:29 AM
Even if they want to be trapped willingly, which I don't really believe at all, a fabriel can be used by anyone. Even people that don't reflect the aspect of that spren. E.g. none creative people would be able to use creative spren, what for I do not know, but it would be possible.