Timewaster's Guide Archive
Local Authors => Brandon Sanderson => Topic started by: SnagglezMaw on September 17, 2010, 04:18:04 AM
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When Elhokar is having a chat with Dalinar, he mentions beings with twisted-shape heads he can see just out of the corner of his eye, much like what Shallan sees. Assuming they're spren like Jasnah stated, does Elhokar have the ability to Soulcast? Or could these spren mean he has some other power?
(Sorry I don't have my book on me, if someone has the quote it would be much appreciated.)
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Well it surely means he has some sort of power. I would assume that it's similar to his sister's given the blood relation.
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It would be a perfect distraction, pinning the blame on a group of parshmen. We go to war for years and years, never noticing the real villains, working quietly in my own camp. They watch me. Always. Waiting. I see their faces in mirrors. Symbols, twisted, inhuman…”
Dalinar glanced at Sadeas, and the two shared a disturbed look. Was Elhokar’s paranoia growing worse, or had it always been hidden? He saw phantom cabals in every shadow, and now—with the attempt on his life— he had proof to feed those worries.
-ch 58 pg 939
Shallan picked up the charcoal pencil and flipped through to a blank page in her sketchbook. She passed several pictures of the symbol-headed creatures, some set in this very room. They lurked around her, always. At some times, she thought she saw them in the corners of her eyes. At others, she could hear them whispering. She hadn’t dared speak back to them again.
-ch 70 pg 1097
“What of the creatures with the symbol heads?” Shallan asked. She flipped through her sketches, then held up an image of them. “Do you see them too? How are they related?”
Jasnah frowned, taking the image. “You see beings like this? In Shadesmar?”
“They appear in my drawings,” Shallan said. “They’re around me, Jasnah. You don’t see them? Am I—”
Jasnah held up a hand. “These are a type of spren, Shallan. They are related to what you do.” She tapped the desk softly. “Two orders of the Knights Radiant possessed inherent Soulcasting ability; it was based on their powers that the original fabrials were designed, I believe. I had assumed that you… But no, that obviously wouldn’t make sense. I see now.”
“What?”
“I will explain as I train you,” Jasnah said, handing back the sheet. “You will need a greater foundation before you can grasp it. Suffice it to say that each Radiant’s abilities were tied to the spren.”
-ch 72 pg 1112
It's odd, judging by Jasnah's reaction, she knows of them, but doesn't deal with them herself. It might mean Elhokar would be of the same Order as Shallan (6, Shash, was the guess someone put forth earlier, which sounded good to me and another as well) or simply that they only appear to some Orders and not others. But yeah, I'm definitely counting him as a Knight Radiant candidate as well. Anyone else notice that Dalinar got his plate to glow a bit early in the book?
Dalinar held back the claw and matched its strength, a figure in dark, silvery metal that almost seemed to glow. The beast trumpeted above, and Dalinar bellowed back a powerful, defiant yell.
-ch13 pg 230
Standing beneath the massive chasmfiend, holding it back from killing his nephew, Plate glowing. That image was fixed in Adolin’s memory.
-Adolin thinking back on it in ch15 pg252
Of course, that might just have been leaking Stormlight, or the sunlight reflected off of it , but they usually say that specifically.
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It would be a perfect distraction, pinning the blame on a group of parshmen. We go to war for years and years, never noticing the real villains, working quietly in my own camp. They watch me. Always. Waiting. I see their faces in mirrors. Symbols, twisted, inhuman…”
Dalinar glanced at Sadeas, and the two shared a disturbed look. Was Elhokar’s paranoia growing worse, or had it always been hidden? He saw phantom cabals in every shadow, and now—with the attempt on his life— he had proof to feed those worries.
-ch 58 pg 939
Shallan picked up the charcoal pencil and flipped through to a blank page in her sketchbook. She passed several pictures of the symbol-headed creatures, some set in this very room. They lurked around her, always. At some times, she thought she saw them in the corners of her eyes. At others, she could hear them whispering. She hadn’t dared speak back to them again.
-ch 70 pg 1097
“What of the creatures with the symbol heads?” Shallan asked. She flipped through her sketches, then held up an image of them. “Do you see them too? How are they related?”
Jasnah frowned, taking the image. “You see beings like this? In Shadesmar?”
“They appear in my drawings,” Shallan said. “They’re around me, Jasnah. You don’t see them? Am I—”
Jasnah held up a hand. “These are a type of spren, Shallan. They are related to what you do.” She tapped the desk softly. “Two orders of the Knights Radiant possessed inherent Soulcasting ability; it was based on their powers that the original fabrials were designed, I believe. I had assumed that you… But no, that obviously wouldn’t make sense. I see now.”
“What?”
“I will explain as I train you,” Jasnah said, handing back the sheet. “You will need a greater foundation before you can grasp it. Suffice it to say that each Radiant’s abilities were tied to the spren.”
-ch 72 pg 1112
It's odd, judging by Jasnah's reaction, she knows of them, but doesn't deal with them herself. It might mean Elhokar would be of the same Order as Shallan (6, Shash, was the guess someone put forth earlier, which sounded good to me and another as well) or simply that they only appear to some Orders and not others. But yeah, I'm definitely counting him as a Knight Radiant candidate as well. Anyone else notice that Dalinar got his plate to glow a bit early in the book?
Dalinar held back the claw and matched its strength, a figure in dark, silvery metal that almost seemed to glow. The beast trumpeted above, and Dalinar bellowed back a powerful, defiant yell.
-ch13 pg 230
Standing beneath the massive chasmfiend, holding it back from killing his nephew, Plate glowing. That image was fixed in Adolin’s memory.
-Adolin thinking back on it in ch15 pg252
Of course, that might just have been leaking Stormlight, or the sunlight reflected off of it , but they usually say that specifically.
What I just found quite interesting by re-reading something Jasnah says is:
Jasnah frowned, taking the image. “You see beings like this? In Shadesmar?”
She either finds it very odd to find those spren in Shadesmar, or knows they exist there and for Shallan to have seen them is weird. (But the spren weren't seen in Shadesmar, so it could have just been Jasnah being confused at them being there. Maybe I'm reading too much into that line).
As far as the quote about Dalinar's armor, I don't think it was Stormlight leaking, like you said, the characters always talk about the Stormlight leaking (and they know what it looks like, this, I think, was something different). For it to imprint a mental image to Adolin's memory, it must have been very out of the ordinary.
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Notice that when Dalinar stopped claw he was showing the primary divine attribute of 1-Jes (that is protecting). He is also a leader (the secondary divine attribute). Maybe when he protected his nephew, he drew a type of spren towards him (dont know what you would call it). He was probably too busy to see the spren and apart from a select few like Rock, most people wouldn't see it. But maybe the sprens that give Knights Radient their powers cause shardplates to glow (like an aftereffect or something - can't think of the right word), and thats what Adolin was seeing, and what Dalinar saw in his visions.
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...we should't forget that his father also carried this funny black sphere with him.
The whole family is kind of weird, now that I think of it. ;D
Father is assasinated for making a piece treaty and carries black stormlight around.
Uncle deals with the old magic and sees visions.
He himself sees the guardians of shadesmar.
Sister can soulcast sans fabriel.
The only "normal" people in the clan are his two cousins...
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shardplates to glow (like an aftereffect or something - can't think of the right word), and thats what Adolin was seeing, and what Dalinar saw in his visions.
See my other thread about that.
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another possible clue is the Cracked Sapphires in his Armor, (loaned my book to a friend, so i can't quote) but notice how Saedas mentions the fact that 8 of them where Cracked? now that might just be battle damage... or he could be Tapping them, to help power his Foolish stunts (race against Daliner near start of book, he was quicker, and took that vertical leap, then lept off the tower, and survived) also, Jalena also had a cracked gem, after one of her soulcasting attempts...
oh, another thought stuck me, when Sezth was fighting Galivenr(sp?) he noticed how Quickly Gal recovered, and moved. now this is Sezth, full of Stormlight, bouncing off the walls like a rubberball, and Shard plate only enhances your strength, and endurance, not reaction time. perhaps Gal was also a near-Raident, and was taping some of his gems? (which after the fight, quite a few of them where Cracked as well)
crap... we better check on the Cousins, it sounds like that entire family was tapping gems, and doing things they shouldn't...
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8 is also sixteen divided in two. Shadesmar, someone.
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another possible clue is the Cracked Sapphires in his Armor, (loaned my book to a friend, so i can't quote) but notice how Saedas mentions the fact that 8 of them where Cracked? now that might just be battle damage... or he could be Tapping them, to help power his Foolish stunts (race against Daliner near start of book, he was quicker, and took that vertical leap, then lept off the tower, and survived) also, Jalena also had a cracked gem, after one of her soulcasting attempts...
oh, another thought stuck me, when Sezth was fighting Galivenr(sp?) he noticed how Quickly Gal recovered, and moved. now this is Sezth, full of Stormlight, bouncing off the walls like a rubberball, and Shard plate only enhances your strength, and endurance, not reaction time. perhaps Gal was also a near-Raident, and was taping some of his gems? (which after the fight, quite a few of them where Cracked as well)
crap... we better check on the Cousins, it sounds like that entire family was tapping gems, and doing things they shouldn't...
This is a really good catch. Given that we think he might have some sort of magic---yeah, those cracked gems are starting to make sense now. There probably was nobody trying to kill him (although there will be soon, yeah; I think he's right about that...)
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I was thinking about those gemstones too, but if Elhokar was draining them with Radiant-type abilities, I would think we would have seen some effect on him or his surroundings, but nothing jumped out at me.
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I was thinking about those gemstones too, but if Elhokar was draining them with Radiant-type abilities, I would think we would have seen some effect on him or his surroundings, but nothing jumped out at me.
Maybe it wasn't Elhokar that drained them, but Dalinar. That might be where he got his extra strength.
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I was thinking about those gemstones too, but if Elhokar was draining them with Radiant-type abilities, I would think we would have seen some effect on him or his surroundings, but nothing jumped out at me.
Maybe it wasn't Elhokar that drained them, but Dalinar. That might be where he got his extra strength.
That's really interesting. Though, here's my question: Could honorspren be bonding with him without his knowledge? For some reason, I thought they all would have a Syl/Kaladin relationship, but maybe that's the one that's not normal. What do you think?
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I was thinking about those gemstones too, but if Elhokar was draining them with Radiant-type abilities, I would think we would have seen some effect on him or his surroundings, but nothing jumped out at me.
Maybe it wasn't Elhokar that drained them, but Dalinar. That might be where he got his extra strength.
That's really interesting. Though, here's my question: Could honorspren be bonding with him without his knowledge? For some reason, I thought they all would have a Syl/Kaladin relationship, but maybe that's the one that's not normal. What do you think?
The bonding with Dalinar was probably brief, and not well connected. Many of the people on Roshar just ignore the spren, so maybe one has been hanging around Dalinar and he hasn't noticed as they all look the same and he is use to ignoring them.
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On the topic of Elhokar, might Shalan try currying his favor by showing him how he can visit the Shadesmar? Might she try to get him to marry her so she can save her house and family? Might Adolin then be pissed because he finally started REALLY liking a girl, and then she goes flirty with the King?
Uh, probably not.
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On the topic of Elhokar, might Shalan try currying his favor by showing him how he can visit the Shadesmar? Might she try to get him to marry her so she can save her house and family? Might Adolin then be pissed because he finally started REALLY liking a girl, and then she goes flirty with the King?
Uh, probably not.
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On the topic of Elhokar, might Shalan try currying his favor by showing him how he can visit the Shadesmar? Might she try to get him to marry her so she can save her house and family? Might Adolin then be pissed because he finally started REALLY liking a girl, and then she goes flirty with the King?
Uh, probably not.
I think Shallan's family problems is the least of her problems, and I'm sure Jasnah will help fix them up anyway.
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On the topic of Elhokar, might Shalan try currying his favor by showing him how he can visit the Shadesmar? Might she try to get him to marry her so she can save her house and family? Might Adolin then be pissed because he finally started REALLY liking a girl, and then she goes flirty with the King?
Uh, probably not.
I think Shallan's family problems is the least of her problems, and I'm sure Jasnah will help fix them up anyway.
I'm pretty sure Shallan's family is it in so deep they couldn't see the top using the Hubble telescope. I don't know how it's going to play out, but I suspect it won't be easy. Simply stealing the fabrial probably wouldn't have solved anything.
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I'm pretty sure Shallan's family is it in so deep they couldn't see the top using the Hubble telescope.
That was a very apt way of putting it, I am wondering how Shallan's family problems will play out, no money, lots of debts, lots of enemies, and a powerful criminal organisation wanting them to provide a valuable item they don't have... I think there's a high chance that they'll have to abandon their estates to survive.
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or she could just sell her shardblade, from what we are lead to believe, there are people out there who would give just about anything for one
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Well, since we are trying to hook people up, the way I see it, there will probably be a love triangle thing where Shallan can't make up her mind between Andolin and Renarian. Andolin is the handsome and confident man, while Renarian is the reserved and intelligent man that can return her witty comments.
Andolin falls in love with Shallan, deciding that she is the one who he will finally settle him down; he needs a wife when he takes over for his father after all. Shallan is the first woman that Renarian has taken an interest in and he falls madly in love. He would give his life for her, which is pretty much how he wins her heart. He again recklessly charges in to battle, this time to save Shallan. He sustains major injuries, which she is able to heal with her blood Soulcasting abilities and she also cures him of his pre-existing maladies at that time.
Renarian gave her the most precious gift he could, his life. In return, she gives him her most precious gift (not that one perverts): her blade. Her family is now protected and Renarian is able to protect her directly, armed with the blade, plate from his father, a head full of smarts (passed down from his mother, lol) and the courage to charge unprotected to save those he loves.
The End.
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On the topic of Elhokar, might Shalan try currying his favor by showing him how he can visit the Shadesmar? Might she try to get him to marry her so she can save her house and family? Might Adolin then be pissed because he finally started REALLY liking a girl, and then she goes flirty with the King?
Elhokar's already married - wife is running kingdom from the capital.
PS If "paranoia spren" exist, surely Elhokar has them...
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makes me wonder if Axies the collecter knows of those kinds of spren? he seems to be very old, if centuries are of no concern to him, maybe he would know about the radiants spren