Timewaster's Guide Archive
Local Authors => Brandon Sanderson => Topic started by: happyman on September 06, 2010, 04:15:14 PM
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I'm going to reiterate what Chaos said regarding the number of Shards on Sel (planet that Elantris is set on). Read tWoK, it changes a lot of what was previously thought. The current theory is two Shards, with three at one point. No specifics, just numbers. It's not really a spoiler for either book, seeing as it's less than halfway through tWoK and not mentioned in Elantris at all. I'm going to shut up now... :-X
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I'd like to see a clarification on this. I mean, it's pretty clear from tWoK that there would have to have been two shards on Sel at some point---Odium, and at least one other (the Dor *really* doesn't sound like Odium's magic, and anyway, Odium's visit was brief, although what "brief" means for a shard is a good question.). But why would there be a third?
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I think the theory is that you have the Dor, Jaddeth, and Odium.
I'm unsure about Jaddeth, though. We really don't see any indication of whether or not the religion is true.
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I think the theory is that you have the Dor, Jaddeth, and Odium.
I'm unsure about Jaddeth, though. We really don't see any indication of whether or not the religion is true.
Or better yet, that Jaddeth is really Odium, or at the very least that Odium inspired the Derethi religion. Given the emphasis on war, that could work.
I would note that Wyrn almost certainly has a direct line to a shard, somehow, and not a nice one, either. He's able to tell the future to some extent. Given what we've seen of the cosmere, that just screams "A shard is involved somehow."
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I'm going to reiterate what Chaos said regarding the number of Shards on Sel (planet that Elantris is set on). Read tWoK, it changes a lot of what was previously thought. The current theory is two Shards, with three at one point. No specifics, just numbers. It's not really a spoiler for either book, seeing as it's less than halfway through tWoK and not mentioned in Elantris at all. I'm going to shut up now... :-X
*********************************tWoK spoilers****************************
I'd like to see a clarification on this. I mean, it's pretty clear from tWoK that there would have to have been two shards on Sel at some point---Odium, and at least one other (the Dor *really* doesn't sound like Odium's magic, and anyway, Odium's visit was brief, although what "brief" means for a shard is a good question.). But why would there be a third?
The fact that the epigraph author mentions two entities that Odium killed: Aona and Skai. Also, there's the word "skaze", appearing once in Elantris, which I imagine is related to Skai.
Thus, we have two Shards on Sel (Aona and Skai), and Odium was there for a brief time.
I think the theory is that you have the Dor, Jaddeth, and Odium.
I'm unsure about Jaddeth, though. We really don't see any indication of whether or not the religion is true.
Or better yet, that Jaddeth is really Odium, or at the very least that Odium inspired the Derethi religion. Given the emphasis on war, that could work.
I would note that Wyrn almost certainly has a direct line to a shard, somehow, and not a nice one, either. He's able to tell the future to some extent. Given what we've seen of the cosmere, that just screams "A shard is involved somehow."
I believe that Wyrn, Dahkor, and Jaddeth are related to Skai. Here's evidence:
Dilaf laughed, tapping Raoden on the side of the face with the tip of his sword. "The Skaze are right, then. Elantrians are not indestructible."
Direct evidence Skai is related to the Fjordell powers, as Skai->Skaze is too close to be ignored.
Therefore, I believe that the burden of proof is on others if you want to say Odium is related to Jaddeth :)
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Dilaf laughed, tapping Raoden on the side of the face with the tip of his sword. "The Skaze are right, then. Elantrians are not indestructible."
Direct evidence Skai is related to the Fjordell powers, as Skai->Skaze is too close to be ignored.
Not necessarily related. It could also be that the Skaze are another religion or organization on Sel.
You could be right, though.
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Dilaf laughed, tapping Raoden on the side of the face with the tip of his sword. "The Skaze are right, then. Elantrians are not indestructible."
Direct evidence Skai is related to the Fjordell powers, as Skai->Skaze is too close to be ignored.
Not necessarily related. It could also be that the Skaze are another religion or organization on Sel.
You could be right, though.
What if I told you that Skaze are like evil Seons? :P Would that help my case?
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I'm going to reiterate what Chaos said regarding the number of Shards on Sel (planet that Elantris is set on). Read tWoK, it changes a lot of what was previously thought. The current theory is two Shards, with three at one point. No specifics, just numbers. It's not really a spoiler for either book, seeing as it's less than halfway through tWoK and not mentioned in Elantris at all. I'm going to shut up now... :-X
*********************************tWoK spoilers****************************
I'd like to see a clarification on this. I mean, it's pretty clear from tWoK that there would have to have been two shards on Sel at some point---Odium, and at least one other (the Dor *really* doesn't sound like Odium's magic, and anyway, Odium's visit was brief, although what "brief" means for a shard is a good question.). But why would there be a third?
The fact that the epigraph author mentions two entities that Odium killed: Aona and Skai. Also, there's the word "skaze", appearing once in Elantris, which I imagine is related to Skai.
Thus, we have two Shards on Sel (Aona and Skai), and Odium was there for a brief time.
I think the theory is that you have the Dor, Jaddeth, and Odium.
I'm unsure about Jaddeth, though. We really don't see any indication of whether or not the religion is true.
Or better yet, that Jaddeth is really Odium, or at the very least that Odium inspired the Derethi religion. Given the emphasis on war, that could work.
I would note that Wyrn almost certainly has a direct line to a shard, somehow, and not a nice one, either. He's able to tell the future to some extent. Given what we've seen of the cosmere, that just screams "A shard is involved somehow."
I believe that Wyrn, Dahkor, and Jaddeth are related to Skai. Here's evidence:
Dilaf laughed, tapping Raoden on the side of the face with the tip of his sword. "The Skaze are right, then. Elantrians are not indestructible."
Direct evidence Skai is related to the Fjordell powers, as Skai->Skaze is too close to be ignored.
Therefore, I believe that the burden of proof is on others if you want to say Odium is related to Jaddeth :)
That's a pretty good argument. I know Brandon has name-dropped the powers before.
It's still pretty tenuous, but I suppose it's the best we've got. It just seems so hard to know where the Shard's referenced were, given that both Hoid and the recipient already know the background information.
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Dilaf laughed, tapping Raoden on the side of the face with the tip of his sword. "The Skaze are right, then. Elantrians are not indestructible."
Direct evidence Skai is related to the Fjordell powers, as Skai->Skaze is too close to be ignored.
Not necessarily related. It could also be that the Skaze are another religion or organization on Sel.
You could be right, though.
What if I told you that Skaze are like evil Seons? :P Would that help my case?
Oh, right... I seem to recall reading about that somewhere. In the annotations, I think.
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It's still pretty tenuous, but I suppose it's the best we've got. It just seems so hard to know where the Shard's referenced were, given that both Hoid and the recipient already know the background information.
Definitely. And complicating matters is the fact that--if Odium went to Sel prior to the events of Elantris--we don't really know what "Splintered" means, which makes it even harder to discern what Shard does what on that world.
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It's still pretty tenuous, but I suppose it's the best we've got. It just seems so hard to know where the Shard's referenced were, given that both Hoid and the recipient already know the background information.
Definitely. And complicating matters is the fact that--if Odium went to Sel prior to the events of Elantris--we don't really know what "Splintered" means, which makes it even harder to discern what Shard does what on that world.
Actually, I was really resisting this theory. I wanted there to be only one Shard on Sel. And then I re-read Hoid's letter (yes, I'm certain Hoid was the author) and realized that yeah, there were two Shard's in Sel. One was Aona and the other was Skai. That's by far the best reading of the text. Odium's visit was probably quite eventful. However, I actually believe it occurred well before the events of Elantris, at least most of it.
Why? Because I believe that the Aons and the Skaze are the splinters that Hoid talks about. The splinters of the original Shards. Think about it: Nobody knows how they are made. They seem to be immortal (baring some odd conditions that appear only in the deleted scenes). They are conscious---I can't emphasize that enough. In Mistborn, in order to make humans self-aware, Preservation had to sacrifice part of himself, but these Seons just float around conscious as though it was nothing special. And in some sense, they seem to embody an ideal. Kind of like---a shard. The Seons would be shattered Aona and the Skaze would be shattered Skai.
If I'm correct, then the reason nobody knows how to make Seons is that you can't. They just exist and get passed down because they've existed ever since Odium's visit. They have Aons at their center because that is the nature of the power they represent, the power that was shattered.
Anyway, it probably has some holes. Interesting, anyway.
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It seems to be about as spoilerish as the thread titles of the WoK threads. I haven't seen anything earth-shattering here. Basically just a few names we didn't know at the time.
But yes, this extra information does come from WoK.
(Man, I was able to stick to 666 posts for so long. It's sad to see it go. EDIT: Long=two days? I spend way too much time on this site.)
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(Man, I was able to stick to 666 posts for so long. It's sad to see it go. EDIT: Long=two days? I spend way too much time on this site.)
Or not enough.
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Or not enough
Yes, yes. It must be that. I must stay here more. I must refresh the unread topics page every minute. I must read everything in real-time. I must code out a program that converts the entire TWG into a chat room on my personal computer. But first, I must get that intravenous feeding system I've always wanted.
Aside: Something about that just sounded a whole lot like a friend of mine. Are you secretly stalking me from Colorado, SEM? Hmm? Hmm? HMM? It's cool if you are. Even though I know you aren't. Did I just change who I was talking to half way through this paragraph? Only if Munin is not who I'm fairly certain he is not, but could possibly be. Did I just change who I was talking to twice in this paragraph?... *headasplode*
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I live in California.
Or do I?
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This topic has ever so quickly left the straight and narrow of on topicness and has veered into the wild, wild wastes of mind screwdom. And it took, what, three, four posts? Dang, you might as well have invoked Gamespren on us!
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This topic has ever so quickly left the straight and narrow of on topicness and has veered into the wild, wild wastes of mind screwdom. And it took, what, three, four posts? Dang, you might as well have invoked Gamespren on us!
I do not know this Gamespren (Is he like game hen?). I do, however, know what happened. I was there. Or here. The place where the event you are referencing took place.
Andynasalyum was exploded, and the shard of on-topicness was absorbed by the Jade Knight. Without his presence, this thread is doomed to wander the banal reaches of madness until either Munin remembers what we were talking about before I was sidetracked or I'm cured of my shardiness.
The real question here is why am I the one that's creating all of this chaos? Shouldn't Chaos do that? Or little wilson? I mean, this kind of thing isn't remotely covered in my job description. Then again, the fact that I'm doing the unexpected means that I'm actually doing my job very well.
I would like to take this opportunity to plug pie. Pie is very delicious and good for you if you have nothing more healthy and delicious on hand. It is worthy of a plug. Sometimes it is kinda runny, so a plug is good and necessary, though I don't think that a pie plug has been invented yet. I just invented it. It is two pieces of plastic that are each the radius of your pie pan/tin/platter, connected by a waterproof hinge, and having soft plastic like windshield wipers on the edges that touch the container. Also, the edge that goes next to the slanting outside of the container will be contoured to fit perfectly. As you cut and serve your pie, merely place the plug in the void that was once occupied (har) by your eaten slices and expand it to fit the angle needed to plug the runoff.
I would put something on-topic here, but it would seem like sacrilege.
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So, back on topic...
It's still pretty tenuous, but I suppose it's the best we've got. It just seems so hard to know where the Shard's referenced were, given that both Hoid and the recipient already know the background information.
Definitely. And complicating matters is the fact that--if Odium went to Sel prior to the events of Elantris--we don't really know what "Splintered" means, which makes it even harder to discern what Shard does what on that world.
I thought Brandon referred to the Returned in Warbreaker as Splinters in one of his interviews?
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So, back on topic...
It's still pretty tenuous, but I suppose it's the best we've got. It just seems so hard to know where the Shard's referenced were, given that both Hoid and the recipient already know the background information.
Definitely. And complicating matters is the fact that--if Odium went to Sel prior to the events of Elantris--we don't really know what "Splintered" means, which makes it even harder to discern what Shard does what on that world.
I thought Brandon referred to the Returned in Warbreaker as Splinters in one of his interviews?
Not just returned, I think. I also believe the Lord Ruler and Vin were Splinters.
This is especially interesting in Warbreaker because as far as we can tell, Endowment is still active.
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I thought he referred to Vin and TLR as Shards, not Splinters though?
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Lord-Ruler referred to himself as a "Splinter of Divinity", no?
The idea of Seons as splinters gaining consciousness makes me think about Nightblood -- perhaps that much breath to awaken a sword is effectively ripping a splinter off Endowment. Temporarily damming the river where normal awakenings are more like dipping a bucket in.
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Lord-Ruler referred to himself as a "Splinter of Divinity", no?
Sliver of Infinity, actually.
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So when were the shards splintered? Sazed had both of them.
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So when were the shards splintered? Sazed had both of them.
Those two weren't. Aona and Skaze were killed by Odium, not Ati and Leras.
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Lord-Ruler referred to himself as a "Splinter of Divinity", no?
The idea of Seons as splinters gaining consciousness makes me think about Nightblood -- perhaps that much breath to awaken a sword is effectively ripping a splinter off Endowment. Temporarily damming the river where normal awakenings are more like dipping a bucket in.
Well, something is up with that sword. It baffled Vasher why he (gender used simply for convenience) had any personality at all. Something odd happened during its creation. It's almost like a new creation, akin to creating a human. Akin to creating a child.
Since God Kings apparently can create children (from Brandon via Peter, I think), maybe this is related.
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Lord-Ruler referred to himself as a "Splinter of Divinity", no?
The idea of Seons as splinters gaining consciousness makes me think about Nightblood -- perhaps that much breath to awaken a sword is effectively ripping a splinter off Endowment. Temporarily damming the river where normal awakenings are more like dipping a bucket in.
Well, something is up with that sword. It baffled Vasher why he (gender used simply for convenience) had any personality at all. Something odd happened during its creation. It's almost like a new creation, akin to creating a human. Akin to creating a child.
Since God Kings apparently can create children (from Brandon via Peter, I think), maybe this is related.
I took Nightblood more to be an example of "if you put enough Breaths into something you can permanently Awaken it." With a sword (which isn't very much like a human body) it took 1,000 Breaths to Awaken; the result was Nightblood. With a dead human body (which is very much like a human body) it takes 1 Breath to Awaken; the result is a Lifeless.
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Lord-Ruler referred to himself as a "Splinter of Divinity", no?
The idea of Seons as splinters gaining consciousness makes me think about Nightblood -- perhaps that much breath to awaken a sword is effectively ripping a splinter off Endowment. Temporarily damming the river where normal awakenings are more like dipping a bucket in.
Well, something is up with that sword. It baffled Vasher why he (gender used simply for convenience) had any personality at all. Something odd happened during its creation. It's almost like a new creation, akin to creating a human. Akin to creating a child.
Since God Kings apparently can create children (from Brandon via Peter, I think), maybe this is related.
I took Nightblood more to be an example of "if you put enough Breaths into something you can permanently Awaken it." With a sword (which isn't very much like a human body) it took 1,000 Breaths to Awaken; the result was Nightblood. With a dead human body (which is very much like a human body) it takes 1 Breath to Awaken; the result is a Lifeless.
This isn't a bad idea, but there are lots of things in the world that are more human than a metal sword, which should be able to be permanently awakened with less effort in this theory. They would be awfully useful to have around too; a very practical discovery. Brandon doesn't show us any, though. Not only does he not show us any, but the person who comments on Nightblood's status-Vasher-is an expert on the subject of Awakening, as much as experts exist in his world. No, I think something more is going on with Nightblood. Something very unusual happened when that sword awoke.
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Lord-Ruler referred to himself as a "Splinter of Divinity", no?
The idea of Seons as splinters gaining consciousness makes me think about Nightblood -- perhaps that much breath to awaken a sword is effectively ripping a splinter off Endowment. Temporarily damming the river where normal awakenings are more like dipping a bucket in.
Well, something is up with that sword. It baffled Vasher why he (gender used simply for convenience) had any personality at all. Something odd happened during its creation. It's almost like a new creation, akin to creating a human. Akin to creating a child.
Since God Kings apparently can create children (from Brandon via Peter, I think), maybe this is related.
I took Nightblood more to be an example of "if you put enough Breaths into something you can permanently Awaken it." With a sword (which isn't very much like a human body) it took 1,000 Breaths to Awaken; the result was Nightblood. With a dead human body (which is very much like a human body) it takes 1 Breath to Awaken; the result is a Lifeless.
This isn't a bad idea, but there are lots of things in the world that are more human than a metal sword, which should be able to be permanently awakened with less effort in this theory. They would be awfully useful to have around too; a very practical discovery. Brandon doesn't show us any, though. Not only does he not show us any, but the person who comments on Nightblood's status-Vasher-is an expert on the subject of Awakening, as much as experts exist in his world. No, I think something more is going on with Nightblood. Something very unusual happened when that sword awoke.
Maybe Nightblood and the Returned are splinters of another shard closely related to Endowment. Endowment was obviously still alive after nightblood and returned were created (Lightsong hears the 'voice') so it can't be shattered. However, maybe endowment splintered another shard and uses the splinters to create returned (which is why there are no returned before a specific time). When Shashara created Nightblood, maybe she unknowningly stole one of the splinters from Endowment to create Nightblood.
This raises the question of whether Endownment is bad. Maybe he is the mysterious Bavadin we have heard about, who Hoid has a grudge against. Or maybe the shard he splintered was a corrupted shard allied with Rayse and it was in the best interests of humanity to splinter it.
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Why would Odium splinter Aona and Skai's shards? Why not take them for himself?
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Why would Odium splinter Aona and Skai's shards? Why not take them for himself?
Probably because he couldn't use them, much like Ruin couldn't use Preservation's.
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Why would Odium splinter Aona and Skai's shards? Why not take them for himself?
Probably because he couldn't use them, much like Ruin couldn't use Preservation's.
So what makes Sazed so special that he can use both? Is it because he has not been corrupted totally by one shard? Maybe when Ruin first got the shard (back when he was a nice guy) he would have been able to take preservations shard as well, but he was too good a guy. But after years of holding one shard, it corrupted him so much that he could no longer hold preservation, it would conflict with his whole sense of being. (I know, i just answered my own question :-[)
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Why would Odium splinter Aona and Skai's shards? Why not take them for himself?
Probably because he couldn't use them, much like Ruin couldn't use Preservation's.
So what makes Sazed so special that he can use both? Is it because he has not been corrupted totally by one shard? Maybe when Ruin first got the shard (back when he was a nice guy) he would have been able to take preservations shard as well, but he was too good a guy. But after years of holding one shard, it corrupted him so much that he could no longer hold preservation, it would conflict with his whole sense of being. (I know, i just answered my own question :-[)
Or maybe it was just by virtue of no longer having a physical body with which to absorb the shards powers? Remember Sazed has to physically touch both Vin and Elend. Seems to me that you can absorb as many shards as you want, so long as you get them all at the same time...
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Why would Odium splinter Aona and Skai's shards? Why not take them for himself?
Probably because he couldn't use them, much like Ruin couldn't use Preservation's.
So what makes Sazed so special that he can use both? Is it because he has not been corrupted totally by one shard? Maybe when Ruin first got the shard (back when he was a nice guy) he would have been able to take preservations shard as well, but he was too good a guy. But after years of holding one shard, it corrupted him so much that he could no longer hold preservation, it would conflict with his whole sense of being. (I know, i just answered my own question :-[)
Or maybe it was just by virtue of no longer having a physical body with which to absorb the shards powers? Remember Sazed has to physically touch both Vin and Elend. Seems to me that you can absorb as many shards as you want, so long as you get them all at the same time...
But Ruin and Preservation still had a physical body. When they died those bodies appeared.
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Why would Odium splinter Aona and Skai's shards? Why not take them for himself?
Probably because he couldn't use them, much like Ruin couldn't use Preservation's.
So what makes Sazed so special that he can use both? Is it because he has not been corrupted totally by one shard? Maybe when Ruin first got the shard (back when he was a nice guy) he would have been able to take preservations shard as well, but he was too good a guy. But after years of holding one shard, it corrupted him so much that he could no longer hold preservation, it would conflict with his whole sense of being. (I know, i just answered my own question :-[)
Well, there's two options...
Either anyone on Scadrial could have wielded either or both powers because they had been made by both Ruin and Preservation, or any feruchemist could have done it, having a power with elements of both Ruin and Preservation. I would suspect it might be the latter, and that you need some sort of attunement with a shard to use it- Brandon used language very similar to that when talking about Vin using the Well's powers in Mistborn.
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Why would Odium splinter Aona and Skai's shards? Why not take them for himself?
Probably because he couldn't use them, much like Ruin couldn't use Preservation's.
So what makes Sazed so special that he can use both? Is it because he has not been corrupted totally by one shard? Maybe when Ruin first got the shard (back when he was a nice guy) he would have been able to take preservations shard as well, but he was too good a guy. But after years of holding one shard, it corrupted him so much that he could no longer hold preservation, it would conflict with his whole sense of being. (I know, i just answered my own question :-[)
Or maybe it was just by virtue of no longer having a physical body with which to absorb the shards powers? Remember Sazed has to physically touch both Vin and Elend. Seems to me that you can absorb as many shards as you want, so long as you get them all at the same time...
But Ruin and Preservation still had a physical body. When they died those bodies appeared.
That only proves that they had bodies before and after holding a shard, there is no evidence that they were able to transubstantiate. They may not have had "access" to a mundane body while holding a shard. In fact i think that is more likely.
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I don't know. Just because they didn't use those bodies, doesn't mean the couldn't use them. For example, if Odium was to travel to another world, surely he would take his physical body with him.
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Sure there is no evidence that they COULDN'T use their physical Bodies, but that does not constitute evidence that they COULD. I think this is a likely explanation