Timewaster's Guide Archive
Departments => Books => Topic started by: guessingo on February 22, 2010, 08:39:28 PM
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Does anyone else here like historical fiction? I like ancient and midievil historical fiction. One thing I find interesting about it is that I like to compare medievil historical fiction to fantasy. Fantasy authors tend to gloss over alot of things in their book. Part because most don't do alot of research and I think in part because fantasy readers really don't want a real medievil world.
For example, people rarely bathed and were filthy. They typically had teeth rotting out of their head by 25. Most people did not have enough to eat and were malnurished. Virtually all fantasy worlds have people who are far too wealthy (ie even having enough food to eat) than they are and everyone seems to have their teeth.
I don't really mind. It is entertainment and I don't think their audience is interested. Anyway here are some really good historical novels and authors:
The Pillars of the Earth (Ridley Scott filmed this for a mini-series. out this year) and World without End by Ken Follett. These are brilliant historical novels that take place in the middle ages. Many people who read Pillars say it is the best book they ever read. It is the kind of history book fantasy authors should read. World without End is not as good, but still great.
Colleen McCullough's Masters of Rome: This 7 book series is about the late republic's crash into empire. Yes, Caesar is in it. However, it starts before he is born. There is a Julius Caesar in the first book and it is his grand father. It ends with Octavian defeating Mark Anthony and taking over the empire. There is an INCREDIBLE amount of research in this book.
WARNING: Takes a long time to get into the flow. There are vast numbers of characters and Romans are not too creative with names (romans tend to use the same names over and over again) and she uses latin terms alot, so you have to go to the glossary. So give it a good 300 pages in The First Man in Rome. It is worth it...
Steven Saylor: He writes mystery novels that take place in the same period as McCullough. You see alot of the same events but from a different angle. His best book is Roma. He is the only author I know of to write about early rome. He has a series of Vignettes that go from the founding of Rome up to Mark Antony. Alot of the early history is sort of "this is how it might have happened" since the early history is more legend than real history. There is not alot of data on early rome. The city was burned by Gauls in its early history and most history before that was destroyed. This includes the history of the kings.
Lyndsey Davis: She also writes Roman mystery novels. Her novels take place in the late 1st Century AD and after the empire was created. She does not focus as much on actual historical events. You see more of the seedy side of Rome. Alot of women will like this because they have a very strong female character (love interest of the Roman detective). She is fairly anachronistic and if you know Roman history, not really believable... but very entertaining.
She also has a new book about the English Civil War (1600s) that I wan to read.
Mary Kay Penman: Writes about the middle ages in england. Some may not find her as entertaining. Her research is incredibly accurate. She does, however, use speech patterns common to the age and it does take time to get used to it. If you like George RR Martin, read "The Sunne in Splendour". As many people known Ice and Fire is basically England during the War of the Roses. This book takes place during the war of the roses.
Cersei is the french queen
Plus its easy to pick out the Starks (Yorks) and the Lannisters(Lancasters). Really cool to read. I wonder if GRRM read this when researching his book?
If you want ONE historical book to read, READ THE PILLARS OF THE EARTH. It is remarkable. I mean stunning.
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My favorite Penman book (and I've read quite a few of them) was "Here Be Dragons." I wish I had more time to read the others, I like historical fiction...when I'm in the mood for it.
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I'll have to look into some of those. My FAVORITE historical fiction is . . . well I swear it was called New Hope. I can't find it anywhere online or on any of my bookshelves. =/
It was basically everyone's view of the formation of Israel that wasn't the U.S. or England. You truly understand the impact it had on so many people and the things that happened in the middle east because of it.
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I saw that movie...It was about a boy named Luke Skywalker who goes off to fight the evil empire.
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lol... I guess this isn't a historical fiction forum. 2 posts in a week? then tons for sci-fi and fantasy.
It is ok. Everyone has their taste. Atleast I didn't post "what are your favorite programming books" or your favorite economics or finance books (I read those too). I wouldn't get a single response.
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Haha...well my favorite finance book would have to be "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" (though that's one of the few that I have ever read and was recommend to me by my Dad whose an amazing businessman).
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lol... I guess this isn't a historical fiction forum. 2 posts in a week? then tons for sci-fi and fantasy.
It is ok. Everyone has their taste. Atleast I didn't post "what are your favorite programming books" or your favorite economics or finance books (I read those too). I wouldn't get a single response.
Programming Python - Mark Lutz
Game Programming - Andy harris
Dom Scripting - Jeremy Keith
I also would have to agree with the Rich Dad, Poor Dad choice. Wonderful book.
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Rich Dad, Poor Dad is pretty silly as a book and gives no details. He has written a ton of books that are basically copies of Rich Dad, Poor Dad. The finance books I have read our valuation books, derivatives, that kind of thing. I did listen to Rich Dad, Poor Dad. For someone who knows finances, it is pretty silly. Sorry, I don't want to sound like a snob. I have an MBA with a focus in finance.
Anyway, I don't do game programming so I wouldn't read that. I have another python book that some python guys recommended to me. The good thing about python is that it is an easy language to learn and there are lots of boosk, examples on the web.
The finance books on my reading list are(well these are on audibook at the library so they are at the top)
Lords of Finance (about the 1929 crash)
Barbarians at the Gates (HBO turned this into a movie a while ago). It is about a leveraged buyout of RJR Nabisco in the 1980s and all the greedy people.
The Ascent of Money (just cause it looks cool and its on audiobook at the library)
Lyndsey Davis has a new novel about the English Civil (1600s.. they chopped off their kings head). She is known for mystery novels that take place in the 1st century in Rome. Those novels are quite good. I read about 5-6 of them. I want to read this book as soon as I get time. She is a witty writer. It is her first non-roman novel.
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I bought a copy of Twelve by Jasper Kent for my Kindle. I've been told it's in the realm of alternate history (though, granted, fantastical alternate history, as there are vampires in their midst...), as it happens during the Napoleonic Wars. Think I'm going to be reading that one next. Has anyone else read it? I'm pretty excited to get to it, even though I don't think I've ever even read an alternate history before.
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I have not read it. Napoleanic era alternative history seems popular. There is another popular series about England and France using dragons during that war. something like 'Tremaire". I have not read them.
Please post on here when you finish 12. Let us know what you think.
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I have not read it. Napoleanic era alternative history seems popular. There is another popular series about England and France using dragons during that war. something like 'Tremaire". I have not read them.
Please post on here when you finish 12. Let us know what you think.
You are thinking of Naomi Novik's fantasy series that is indeed called Temeraire. Novik is pretty cool, and seemed pretty down-to-earth when I talked with her, and her books are OK. I'm not the biggest fan of Historical Fantasy, but they were OK--a little slow, but OK.
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The Aubrey/Maturin series starting with Master and Commander is another Napoleonic era naval series that is fantastic (and is not fantasy/SF). Really, if you read Aubrey/Maturin series and then read Temeraire, it reads basically as Aubrey/Maturin fanfiction with dragons added. Which may sound like a bad thing but I love both series.
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I love the Temeraire series.
I've been reading Horatio Hornblower (C.S. Forester), and they're great, too. I've watched the A&E series with Ioan Gruffudd and it's fantastic.
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I have the first Temeraire book. I got about halfway through it before another book caught my attention, and I haven't managed to get back to it yet. I did enjoy it, though, but I think the reason I'm putting it off is because I haven't yet found a character in the book I really care about.
Or maybe I'm just getting bored with dragons. Not sure.
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The Aubrey/Maturin series starting with Master and Commander is another Napoleonic era naval series that is fantastic (and is not fantasy/SF). Really, if you read Aubrey/Maturin series and then read Temeraire, it reads basically as Aubrey/Maturin fanfiction with dragons added. Which may sound like a bad thing but I love both series.
Exactly. Temeraire is essentially the Patrick O'Brian series with dragons. And that's a good thing. There is a sweet complete collection of the Patrick O'Brian stuff on Amazon for $130 that I have been eying for a while now.
Edit: I also recommend Robert McCammon's SPEAKS THE NIGHTBIRD and the 2 sequels. I'm reading the 3rd one right now, MR SLAUGHTER, and it is pretty cool. McCammon is a very good writer.
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I prefer ancient/medievil history novels.
Anyway, does Tremaire do good research in her books? Do her characters act in logical ways or is it silly? Is it adult fiction or Y/A? I don't really like Y/A. I like SM Stirling/Harry Turtledove quality research for my alternative history. They clearly do know alot about the periods they write about .
If you are an anglophile and like napoleanic era, try David Webber's Honor Harrington series. That is sci-fi, but he is an anglophile and clearly likes napoleanic era brittish history. He basically takes that period and puts it into a sci-fi navy.
If you are interested in that period you may want to try Dianna Gabaldon's series. Hers are a time traveler novel where the woman goes back to scottland starting in 1750. I have only read the first one. Be warned, there is alot of explicit sex in it. I actually got bored with the sex and skipped over it. That sex scenes are romancesque and designed to get women readers (see the reviews on amazon, women readers are all in love with Jamie). They are also explicitly violent. They are somewhat different than other novels. The male lead gets tortured several times and actually beats his wife. Many people here may not like that. However, she is a good writer. BTW, I really liked her podcasts about writing on her website.
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Her name is Naomi Novik. The series is named Temeraire. The research seems fine to me. They are adult fiction.
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The New York Times did an article on her in 2006. She wrote her first novel in 2 months and it sold it 2 months later. That is pretty impressive. She said she writes 6000 words/day. That strikes me as alot.
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Wow, really? 6k words a day...? Wouldn't it be nice to be able to just pour stories out on my keyboard like that.
I believe Peter Jackson has bought the rights to the Temeraire series. While the first 3 books followed history pretty well, the later books start to diverge. I like the voice, it feels true to the era. I guess I really like reading her books because I first became fascinated with the Napoleonic Era from the Richard Sharpe series by Bernard Cornwell. That's good stuff, too. But, yeah, she tries to be true to the era. The main characters are interesting (secondary characters are a little more shallow), the plots are engaging, and the battle scenes are fun to read.
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It's not strictly historical fiction, but George Martin's Song of Ice and Fire is pretty close to the culture and political mosaic of the Early Modern period.
I think it's possible for fantasy authors to be quite thorough and accurate.
In WoT, Matt's army is a pretty accurate facsimile of Matthius Corvinus introduction of light cavalry Hakbussers, and Hussars.
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Song of Ice and Fire is not anything close to historical fiction. Just because he did research on what weapons were like in that period and how people acted does not make it historical.
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True but the initial question was contrasting the quality of historicity of medival and early modern fantasy against true historical fiction. I merely pointing out that it's certainly possible for a fantasy to be build on a reasonably accurate model of human history. On the other hand Daphne DuMarier a wonderful writer who wrote historical fiction, actually was looser with her historicity than some Fantasy writers. It goes both ways.
A particularly good historical fiction --in terms of historicity-- is Arsinothrix, a novel about the fall of the Celtic Empire as Rome and the Goths encroached.