Timewaster's Guide Archive
Local Authors => Brandon Sanderson => Topic started by: Miyabi on December 19, 2009, 10:57:06 PM
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So I wasn't sure if this should go in the Adonalsium topic, the Hoid topic, or if it deserved a topic of its own. After thinking strongly about it I decided that it deserved its own topic, due to the fact that it would fit in either of them and it would cause a kind of fused discussion of the two topics.
While talking with EUOL today I had asked about Hoid being Midius from Partinel. He said he had many names, but avoided a yes or no answer. I then asked if Hoid was a shard, he said no and then said something about how no one has read the end of Partinel due to its not being written well and the plethora of spoilers it contains. . . .
He then told me that Hoid was there when Adonalsium was shattered.
Does this mean that is what happens at the end of Partinel? Was it Hoid's fault that Adonalsium was shattered? What is/was Adonalsium when it was whole? Is Hoid bound to the Shards and that is why he shows up on Shard worlds and seems to somehow support the power of them? (i.e. helping the Elantrians, which lead to fixing the Dor. Helping them overthrow ruin and bring the two Shards together?)
I personally believe that after having broke Adonalsium, Hoid is committed to reuniting the Shards and rebuilding Adonalsium. Whether it is something he wants to do as per saving Adonalsium, a punishment, or a goal of power, I don't know.
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Very interesting... all along, I've sort of thought they (Hoid and the Shards) could be opposing forces of some sort. I'm not sure what gave me that idea, I just never felt that Hoid was on Adonalsium's side. Of course, at this point, as you said, we don't really know what Adonalsium is.
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I have always believed that Hoid was trying to help the 'good guys'. I believe that Hoid is a good person, who has the ability to hop from planet to planet, maybe due to being connected somehow to the shards.
Note, Hoid became a leader in WoA, leading the leaderless Terrisman to a safe haven.
In draft version of WoA, (and I'm pretty sure final draft as well), he broke the pottery, either to help Elend/Vin, or because he was curious.
In Elantris, he was helping Sarene help the Elantrians by smuggling supplies in.
And in Warbreaker, he gave Siri the information she needed.
In FE, he gives Kelsier pretty decent information.
IN HoA, it is assumed that he would've given Vin some pretty good info too.
So, I think that it is more than coincidence that Hoid always finds his way to the heroes, and helps them out. I think that he's a good person, (or maybe even a guilty person), who wants to help the heroes. Whether or not he is trying to reform Andonalsium, I'm not sure.
If he is, he's one step closer with Sazed holding two Shards.
Oh! Idea! Maybe he manipulates the Shadesmar(see edit) so that he can reach the Spiritual Realm, where all of the Shards are still vaguely connected. He than travels that way to planet hop from Shard to Shard.
Maybe a way to see how Andonalsium shattered is seeing how Preservation passed away. Maybe Andonalsium's mind 'broke' and so he died, and Hoid gathered sixteen (or whatever number) people to take up the power. Or maybe Andonalsium shattered on purpose. Who knows?
EDIT- I used Shadesmar wrong. I know that there's a word out there that Brandon used to say how Hoid got into the Well of Ascension Area..... Was it in the Annotations? No, I think it was in a recent Q/A..... I'll try and find it.
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I have always believed that Hoid was trying to help the 'good guys'. I believe that Hoid is a good person, who has the ability to hop from planet to planet, maybe due to being connected somehow to the shards.
Hmm... I wonder what he hopes to accomplish... My thinking is that, yeah, he gave Kelsier good info, but nothing that was absolutely vital. He helps the Terris people, and maybe he hoped to meet Vin in HoA, but unless he has some way to see the future (unlikely, since he spent most of WoA looking in the wrong place), he must have been up to something else when he spoke to Kelsier that night. Why act as an informant? Whatever he was doing was probably tied into the Ruin and Preservation thing, but he couldn't know that Kelsier was going to be a major factor in how those shard's conflict was finally resolved. One wonders, what would Hoid have done had the Lord Ruler not been overthrown? Wait 1000 years and try again? Or would he have faced the LR at the well and tried to do...what ever it is he's trying to do? Such Rambling confusion! ???
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Oh! Idea! Maybe he manipulates the Shadesmar so that he can reach the Spiritual Realm, where all of the Shards are still vaguely connected. He than travels that way to planet hop from Shard to Shard.
Hmm... Given that one mainish type character's unique abilities in DS and how they work, I'd say you might be on to something. And there's another use of Shadesmar by people who seem to know what it is! What did I miss?
Sorry about the double-post, new thinking occurred.
Edit: Removed a character name and description of powers to avoid Peter's further wrath.
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It's been mentioned in a few places that Hoid is, generally speaking, a carrier/passer of knowledge/information. After watching the most recent episode of Stargate Universe, I am reminded just how far someone seeking knowledge/information will go.
We've seen Hoid pass information but I now wonder where exactly this information may have come from originally. Did he inherit some? Was he taught? Did he study?
That last one can be a real issue. Why do we test animals? Not because someone decided it'd be bad to test humans before we did so. It's because we tested humans and eventually bad things happened.
My point is this. As far as I know, there's no reason to discount this whole thing as a grand study on the part of Hoid, so in the future he may have yet more information on the interaction of Shards and the people who have come into contact with them.
/tangent.
EDIT: I guess at the very root of this post is a "maybe he did it, rather than was simply there."
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"Oops, I broke God."
It has always seemed to me that Hoid is seeking Shard objects. The Lerasium in Well of Ascension, or maybe the Well itself, perhaps the Pool of Elantris.
It would help if we knew where Endowment's body and pool were located. (If anywhere.)
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Thank you for posting!
I suspect that Hoid (whether or not involved in the breaking as an active player) at least has an understanding of what exactly happened.
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I can't contribute much, having no knowledge of anything but published canon. And I sincerely appreciate everybody who is avoiding such spoilers.
However, I can't help but sit in awe at the sheer time frames that must be involved with these events. Just how old is Hoid, now, anyway? He was apparently alive before Scadriel was created, which is implied to be on something approaching geological time-scales.
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However, I can't help but sit in awe at the sheer time frames that must be involved with these events. Just how old is Hoid, now, anyway? He was apparently alive before Scadriel was created, which is implied to be on something approaching geological time-scales.
Well, clearly it's in the thousands of years. Hoid apparently isn't a shard but IS something greater than human.
Mistborn, takes place a thousand years after the Emperor takes power (and there is all that time BEFORE the Emperor's ascension too - we're not even sure how long that is!). Obviously Hoid had been around a while even then (without spoilers let's just say that evidence of shards on Scadriel was there and well documented).
We don't have epic landmarks in time for Warbreaker or Elantris like that (at best we have hundreds of years that they're counting) nor do we really have a reference for when those happened in relation to each other (unless Hoid has clues too subtle for us to pick up on).
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plus there is the several hundred years between the two dragonsteel series.
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"Oops, I broke God."
I prefer this explanation.
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"Oops, I broke God."
I prefer this explanation.
I think it actually works as a good explanation as to why he'd bother helping anybody. It's all his fault. Life would be perfect had he not destroyed god into shards. Now the shards don't have near the power they would if they were still combined.
YUP! I like this theory. I'ma stick with it.
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I can confirm what Chris said about Hoid being there when Adonalsium was shattered (in case anyone didn't believe him, which would be kind of dumb), since Brandon later mentioned that to me as well.
My personal pet theory is that Hoid is working against Adonalsium being reunited - I mean it seems to me that he was working very much against Ruin and Preservation both in the Mistborn series, though he did kind of end up helping Preservation in the long run.
Which also lends itself to the theory that Hoid actually shattered Adonalsium. Which would just be epically awesome (is that a word - epically? - It is now)
Anyway, my two cents, though I admit I have no real basis for them.
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My personal pet theory is that Hoid is working against Adonalsium being reunited - I mean it seems to me that he was working very much against Ruin and Preservation both in the Mistborn series, though he did kind of end up helping Preservation in the long run.
This would honestly make some sense, otherwise if he were trying to reunite them, I would think he would confiscate the shards from all the bearers at some point, which he didn't seem to even be trying for in any circumstance to me, unless he's just laying some background planning at the moment.
Edit: this got me thinking - What if reuniting the shards is a bad thing, and Hoid is working to prevent this?
Which also lends itself to the theory that Hoid actually shattered Adonalsium. Which would just be epically awesome (is that a word - epically? - It is now)
If it's not, I use a non-existant word a whole lot, though i'm pretty sure it is a word
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$10 says that Brandon hasn't even wrote WoK yet and is using all of our theories to start the book. We're his source of anti-writers block.
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So you'll give $10 to everyone who disagrees with you, once the book comes out?
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So you'll give $10 to everyone who disagrees with you, once the book comes out?
Based on this comment, I am inclined to take on your bet, vortx.
Here's hoping Ook doesn't lose me 10 bucks (or that i'm reading too much into his request for clarification)!
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That's a bet I'd take!
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$10 says that Brandon hasn't even wrote WoK yet and is using all of our theories to start the book. We're his source of anti-writers block.
I think he's got plenty of ideas from the Amazon reviews. ;)
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$10 says that Brandon hasn't even wrote WoK yet and is using all of our theories to start the book. We're his source of anti-writers block.
I think he's got plenty of ideas from the Amazon reviews. ;)
Ha. Completely forgot about that fake listing. There was a lot of really good material in there.
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Yeah, I can't wait to see what Elvis' magical powers are.
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Yeah, I can't wait to see what Elvis' magical powers are.
My money's on being able to manipulate sound waves, and to eat an endless supply of fried foods.
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That sandwhich Elvis ate fried is the reason America feels justified in a 2000 Calorie salad... and people wonder why America is fat! :-[
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That's why we (USA., maybe just CA) now print the calories on the menu, so people know how much they really are shoving in their gullet. Helps me stay away from fatty foods.
:D
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Are we trying to imply that Elvis is Hoid? I can totally see him breaking god with pelvic thrusts.
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Are we trying to imply that Elvis is Hoid? I can totally see him breaking god with pelvic thrusts.
:D
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Are we trying to imply that Elvis is Hoid? I can totally see him breaking god with pelvic thrusts.
We are now.
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Are we trying to imply that Elvis is Hoid? I can totally see him breaking god with pelvic thrusts.
That made my day. xD
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I'm glad that I made someone smile and/or laugh.
I do have chaotic fits of insanity which may or may not end in something entertaining.
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Are we trying to imply that Elvis is Hoid? I can totally see him breaking god with pelvic thrusts.
Adonalsium got "all shook up." Hur, hur, hur.
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I'm up for the bet!
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Hmm... One wonders if there will ever be a book that details exactly what happened, and what Hoid's (Elvis's) role in the whole thing was. Or perhaps the body of work that happens around Hoid will become so massive that even from the tiny glimpses each affords us, we'll be able to piece the whole thing together. Mayhaps we will wind up with a massive several world crossover wherein all of our favorite characters put Adolnasium back together again. .... That sounds like really bad fan-fiction. :-[ But I bet Brandon could do it! Of course, the real answer probably surpasses my puny imaginings by a great deal. ;)
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Hmm... One wonders if there will ever be a book that details exactly what happened, and what Hoid's (Elvis's) role in the whole thing was. Or perhaps the body of work that happens around Hoid will become so massive that even from the tiny glimpses each affords us, we'll be able to piece the whole thing together. Mayhaps we will wind up with a massive several world crossover wherein all of our favorite characters put Adolnasium back together again. .... That sounds like really bad fan-fiction. :-[ But I bet Brandon could do it! Of course, the real answer probably surpasses my puny imaginings by a great deal. ;)
while it's really cool and all that the novels brandon writes are all based in the same universe, i really hope we don't see a huge crossover novel of like mistborn/elantris/etc. on down the line. Crossovers always make me roll my eyes, i've never had one I enjoyed (outside of laughing at it out of dumb-factor)
though, if anyone can pull it off, it may be brandon.
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Hmm... One wonders if there will ever be a book that details exactly what happened, and what Hoid's (Elvis's) role in the whole thing was. Or perhaps the body of work that happens around Hoid will become so massive that even from the tiny glimpses each affords us, we'll be able to piece the whole thing together. Mayhaps we will wind up with a massive several world crossover wherein all of our favorite characters put Adolnasium back together again. .... That sounds like really bad fan-fiction. :-[ But I bet Brandon could do it! Of course, the real answer probably surpasses my puny imaginings by a great deal. ;)
while it's really cool and all that the novels brandon writes are all based in the same universe, i really hope we don't see a huge crossover novel of like mistborn/elantris/etc. on down the line. Crossovers always make me roll my eyes, i've never had one I enjoyed (outside of laughing at it out of dumb-factor)
though, if anyone can pull it off, it may be brandon.
I"m guessing that the books are actually separated by extremely large time spans. If there is a story that pulls everything together, it will probably do it in the distant future/past of all the standalone stories we've read so far.
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Back on topic.....
Since Preservation and Ruin made intelligent life, and thus the contract to end the world, where did Ati and Leras come from with there distinct bodies (Ati's flaming red hair, and Leras's nose). Are they 'doppelgangers' in a sense? Fractured pieces of personality from Andonalsium? Or was it just the power that shattered from Andonalsium? And how come there are two shards on Scadrial? How come they all aren't separated? Maybe Hoid moved them? Found hosts for the power?
Just some food for thought.
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Ati and Leras were other people who merged with Chaos/Preservation, like Vin eventually merged with Preservation. This was discussed in the super long HOA thread. But interesting questions about shards...why two there?
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WoK has more.....
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Ati and Leras were other people who merged with Chaos/Preservation, like Vin eventually merged with Preservation. This was discussed in the super long HOA thread. But interesting questions about shards...why two there?
This seems very likely, but I don't think we know for sure that Ati and Leras were* just* people who happened on the power. They certainly seemed to embody the power they held in outlook and behavior more completely than either Vin or Sazed did. If Hoid was present when Andalosium split, maybe others were there as well?
Given the worlds we have seen so far, it seems that Ruin and Preservation were not the only shards that decided to go do their own thing. Ruin and Preservation probably stuck together simply because they couldn't create worlds on their own, and thus could not get any satisfaction at all from anything they did without the other. (With the other present, they would only get limited satisfaction, but still more than nothing.)
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Hmm... One wonders if there will ever be a book that details exactly what happened, and what Hoid's (Elvis's) role in the whole thing was. Or perhaps the body of work that happens around Hoid will become so massive that even from the tiny glimpses each affords us, we'll be able to piece the whole thing together. Mayhaps we will wind up with a massive several world crossover wherein all of our favorite characters put Adolnasium back together again. .... That sounds like really bad fan-fiction. :-[ But I bet Brandon could do it! Of course, the real answer probably surpasses my puny imaginings by a great deal. ;)
Answer: Barnes and Nobles Q&A!! (Man I love that thing!)
(Note- This is Brandon speaking in all of these quotes)
Also I wondered whether you will ever publish an encyclopoedia of your interlocking worlds and their relationship to each other within their cosmos?
I plan to do something like this, as things progress. It won't happen until the future, however, and will likely happen only on-line. There will eventually be short stories showing some of what is going on behind the main stories of the novels. I do have some novels planned which would deal with all of this in a more direct way, but they are decades away from being written.
Answer to Doppelganger: Doesn't look like it. From the same source:
The man who died before Vin took over was named Leras. (I've occasionally written it as Laras. I've said the names in my head for years, but I'm only now writing them down as people ask me on forums.) Leras, like Ati (aka Ruin), were NOT Adonalsium. (Sorry about the typo on that one in MB3. I wrote it down on the manuscript, and it didn't get put in quite right. We'll get it fixed.).
(emphasis added by me)
For Cognitive traveling:
I do have a cohesive metaphysical reasoning for how my worlds and magic works. And there is a single plane of existence--called Shadesmar, the Cognative Realm--which connects them all.
You will never need to know any of this to read and enjoy my books, but there is an overarching story behind all of them, going on in the background. Adonalsium, Hoid, the origin of Ati, Leras, the Dor, and the Voice (from Warbreaker) are all tied up in this.
One Man Hoid (a long dead argument, but hey, why not...)
common character appearing in all of the books
Wow. This ended up being a fairly large post. Hmm. Anywho, for more Barnes and Nobles Q&A goodness, look here. http://www.timewastersguide.com/forum/index.php?topic=6953.0
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Oh!!! Shadesmar is the cognitive realm! Now maybe I can participate in WofK discussions without sounding stupid. :P
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Oh!!! Shadesmar is the cognitive realm! Now maybe I can participate in WofK discussions without sounding stupid. :P
I second that...and I've long assumed that the Cognitive (which is Shadesmar apparently) is how Hoid put in so many appearances.
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That is popular opinion Mellington