Timewaster's Guide Archive
Local Authors => Brandon Sanderson => Topic started by: Valkynphyre on June 23, 2009, 09:56:30 AM
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Round 1:
Vin vs. Raoden
Round 2:
Kelsier vs. Dilaf
Round 3:
Sazed vs. Susebron
Round 4:
Vasher vs. The Lord Ruler
Round 5:
Spook vs. Vivena
Round 6:
Denth vs. Marsh
winners of each continue on to next round like so:
Round 7:
winner of Round1 vs. Round 2
Round 8:
R3 vs. R4
Round 9:
R5 vs. R6
and continues with:
Round 10:
R7 vs. R8
and finally
Round 10:
R10 vs. R9
I expect every battle, and show your work. ;P
Let the battle begin.
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Before the battle begins, I just want to ask- we are talking mortal Vin and Sazed right? Not shard-Vin and Sazed? And does Suseborn have a tongue, or no tongue?
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Round 1:
Speed wins. Vin throws a salvo of coins before Raoden can even finish his first Aon, disrupting his attempt to draw precise figures in the air, and follows up for the kill.
Round 2:
I'd give this one to Kelsier. Pewter gives him the strength to at least survive in close combat, but more importantly Dilaf has nothing to stop Kelsier from pelting him with sharp metal objects from range.
Round 3:
Susebron Awakens everything in hearing range and Sazed gets beat on by several dozen assorted animated objects. Strength and speed only do so much when you have 50 flying carpets trying to wrap around you and your clothes are trying to suffocate you, and whatever stores he has will run out fairly quickly.
Round 4:
Feruchemy + Allomancy + knowledge of how they interact is very hard to beat, especially with the size of feruchemical storages the Lord Ruler routinely keeps charged - he's had to single-handedly destroy entire armies before, and he keeps enough power stored up to do that again at any time. Rashek burns some feruchemically charged pewter and steel (I think; the one that stores speed) and rips Vasher in half before he can blink.
Round 5:
I'm assuming that we're using the Tin Savant with no spike version of Spook, here. Vivena has very little experience with both combat in general and Awakening, and not all that incredibly many breaths. She tries, and has a few awakened objects to help, but Spook sees/hears everything coming a mile away and dodges with ease. Spook wins.
Round 6:
Marsh the favorite Inquisitor of Ruin, I presume. Denth is good, but Marsh is The Lord Ruler Lite. Marsh may get hurt, but only because he lacks experience and Rashek's habit of extreme preparation/paranoia. Denth dies, and Marsh heals himself with feruchemy - and that's if Denth gets advance warning to strip all metals and find a nonmetal weapon. If Denth fights with his normal sword, Marsh wins with ease thanks to steel and iron.
Round 7:
Vin vs Kelsier: Tough call. Kelsier is more experienced, but Vin has more natural talent. Assuming equal access or lack of access to duralumin, I think experience will win out this time. Kelsier wins.
Round 8:
Susebron vs The Lord Ruler: Susebron can effectively create an entire army with his voice, but The Lord Ruler regards destroying entire armies by himself to be almost routine. Rashek bulldozes his way through the animated furniture and Lifeless, re-removes Susebron's tongue, and claims the throne.
Round 9:
Spook vs Marsh: Tin Savant vs Steel Inquisitor Ultra. Spook is toast.
Round 10:
Kelsier vs The Lord Ruler: Even if Kelsier were trying to win, unlike the time this matchup actually happens in the book, Rashek has 1000 years of experience on him plus feruchemy and exclusive knowledge of their interactions and the properties of several additional metals. Rashek wins.
Round 11:
Marsh vs The Lord Ruler: The original vs the hemalurgically assembled imitation. Everything Marsh has, Rashek has better. Final winner: Rashek, The Lord Ruler.
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I beg to differ. I think that Sub would win with both fights because all that TLR can do is use the metal things to push away. With humans you slice off they're head, they die. With carpets and chairs, you slice through it and you can create secondary set. So the more you cut at it the more weapons you create.
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Using steel to push is very far from the only thing TLR can do. His two chief trump cards as I see them are a) feruchemical strength multiplied by allomancy, and b) feruchemical speed multiplied by allomancy. He doesn't really need to destroy Susebron's animated army, he can just plow through it with more speed and force than it can stop - and Susebron himself is human. Plus, I don't recall it ever being established in Warbreaker that Awakened objects stay Awakened after being torn in half, much less after being broken into many pieces, and I do remember an explicit explanation that Lifeless aren't all that much harder to beat than ordinary humans. The chief advantage of Lifeless is their lack of need for rest or food, not their durability, and I doubt other kinds of Awakened things are all that much different in that respect. In fact, the only reason I didn't give Sazed the win is that I don't think he could reasonably store up enough power to keep the burst of strength and speed going long enough at the level necessary.
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Vin has the same expeirence as Kel at the end of book 2 you need to read more carefully....vin would kill kel in a fight... it wouldn't last more than 2 minutes. Raoden is too new to his powers but in a few years i think his intelligence would overwhelm Vin's dexterity and strength
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Round 1:
Vin vs. Raoden
To be fair, you'd have to let Raoden have as much time to get used to the AonDor as Vin has had to get used to Allomancy. Just seeing the skill that he has after the little time he's had it in the book, I'd say if you give him even one more year, he'd be skilled enough to take Vin down. He's already getting pretty fast at drawing the Aons, and he'll only get faster with time. Plus, I can see him getting to the point of being able to draw two Aons at the same time....Doesn't matter how fast Vin is, she wouldn't be able to counter that....She's gone.
Round 2:
Kelsier vs. Dilaf
Kel wins. There's really no contest to this one. Sure, Dilaf is freaking strong, but he doesn't stand a chance against just iron/steel. That's not even taking into account pewter and tin, not that tin would really be able to do a whole lot, but still. Kel whoops Dilaf.
Round 3:
Sazed vs. Susebron
Sazed puts up a VERY good fight, but he just can't work his away around all the Awakened objects and Lifeless that Seb has at his disposal to face Seb head-on. Seb wins.
Round 4:
Vasher vs. The Lord Ruler
Vasher can't even beat Denth in a fair fight (notice I said FAIR....I won't say what's unfair so as to avoid spoilers...). Even if he pulled what he did to Denth on the TLR, he would still lose. TLR would be able to heal from whatever injury Vasher inflicts upon him, he'd be able to take down whatever Awakened forces Vasher uses, and he's really not all that evil of a person, regardless of what Vin thinks, so not even Nightblood would work on him. TLR takes the win.
Round 5:
Spook vs. Vivena
Doing the same thing with this fight as with Vin vs Raoden, Viv has more time to learn. Not only this, but she's been training under Denth and Vasher, both of whom have extensive knowledge of Awakening. Yeah, Spook's a savant. As we saw in HoA, he can do a LOT. But Tin isn't going to help him with Lifeless....And yes, I can see Viv getting around to Awakening a Lifeless or two sometime....Granted it would take her a while to get to that point, but it will happen, eventually. And when it does, Spook's toast.
Round 6:
Denth vs. Marsh
Denth is killed less than a minute in to the fight. Yes, he's good. But he stands no chance against a super-powered Inquisitor like Marsh...No chance at all.
Round 7:
Raoden vs Kel
Again, Raoden has had time to develop his skill. Not more time than he had with Vin, but I think it's safe to say that Vin would beat Kel in a fight, and therefore, if Raoden beats Vin, he should be able to beat Kel. Kel uses his skill with steel/iron finely, but Raoden turns them all the metal to feathers with one Aon he draws in his left hand, while drawing an energy Aon in his right hand.....Kel dies.
Round 8:
Seb vs TLR
Seb puts up a marvelous fight with all his Lifeless and the other Awakened objects. It doesn't take TLR all that long to get around them. TLR controlled Koloss, which I'm sure were MANY times more difficult to kill than Lifeless. And since there's really only so much you can do with Awakening--since there are only so many viable commands regardless of how much Breath one holds--as opposed to the combo of Allomancy and Feruchemy, the combo takes the fight. TLR wins.
Round 9:
Viv vs Marsh
Doesn't matter how much training Viv gets. She's not beating Marsh. Marsh has already faced one Awakener, and a pretty good one at that, plus a really good fighter on top of being an Awakener. Viv's not a fighter. She may be an Awakener by this point in time, and she may know a bit of how to fight, but she's nowhere near Denth's ability. Anything she throws at Marsh, he counters. He's seen it before, plus more. Nothing is new. She dies much faster than Denth did, which is really only fair.
Round 10:
Raoden vs TLR
Raoden's seen and beaten 2 Mistborn, easily. He's ready for more of a challenge. He sees TLR's Feruchemical abilities--like the speed and the healing and the strength even more than the Mistborn--and he's not QUITE sure what to make of it, but he uses his brain, and the Aons to the best of his ability. Keeping up with his "left hand metal-feather-turner, right-hand offense" thing he had going on for him during Kel's fight, he's able to fight off everything TLR sends at him, plus give a few injuries in return. Granted, those injuries heal up fast, but hey, it's using up a good portion of TLR's stores--both of pewter and of Feruchemy. Eventually, Raoden decides to try something new, and adds a modifier onto one of the metal-feather-turner Aons, making it so the metal TLR is wearing also changes....And thus, TLR is beaten.
Round 11:
Marsh vs Raoden
After having JUST beaten TLR, fighting Marsh, although another invigorating fight, is nothing new to our Elantrian friend. He notices right off the bat that Marsh is a little different than TLR. I mean, for one thing, TLR didn't have a metal spike sticking out of one his eyes, and a hole where the other eye should be. Plus, Marsh isn't wearing any metal....well. Other than the spike, that is. But still. Raoden figures out a modifier to put on his trustworthy feather Aon (I can't remember which Aon it is that makes an Elantrian able to shape-shift objects, and I don't have my book, so that's why I keep referring to it as the metal-feather-turner...It's not really. It can do more than just that, but that's all that really matters within the confines of these fights...or at least that's all that I choose to use it for...) that will change that lone spike in Marsh's head to a feather....And as we saw in HoA, when the Inquisitors lose both of those spikes, they become a little dead....
And thus, our Elantrian friend takes the trophy....whatever it may be.
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wow, didn't see that coming.
ok, my take:
Round 1:
Raoden starts to draw an Aon, when he receives a boxing through the head. Vin's just too fast. he dies.
Round 2:
Kelsier wouldn't stand a chance if Dilaf got close to him, but hey, Kelsier shoots coins as fast as bullets and can practically fly. Dilaf dies whining.
Round 3:
When i made the post i pictured them both in their final forms in the books, trying to make it a fair fight, but the powers of ruin and preservation are too powerful to add to Sazed. therefore, Susebron wins by overwhelming awakenings
Round 4:
Vasher draws Nightblood. TLR uses his Iron/Steel Savantness along with Duralumin and cadmium and slows down time. While shooting a coin through Vasher's head. Sorry Vasher, as much as I like you, Allomancy is too BA for you.
Round 5:
This is gonna be a close one because Vivena seems to be able to awaken nearly intuitively. Spook is however, awesome.
I'd say Vivena, but only because she awakens his blindfold and he gets temprorarily blinded when it comes off.
Round 6:
Marsh. Duh.
Round 7:
Vin vs. Kelsier.
Unfortunately for Kelsier, he doesn't know about Duralumin. That's the deciding factor in this battle. GO VIN!
Round 8:
Susebron vs. TLR.
Sorry, Suse. Time sliding and feruchemy fueled strength, speed and healing along with metal-pushing? TLR FTW.
Round 9:
Vivena vs. Marsh.
Marsh. Duh.
Round 10:
Vin vs. TLR.
I believe this was already played out. TLR should whip her without blinking, but he just doesn't seem to care to. She mist-pushes his atium bracelets and he dies. Poor TLR.
Round 11:
Marsh vs. Vin.
Marsh. Duh. j/k. Vin wins with Duralumin and Zinc.
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Round 1 Vin vs Raoden
This one all depends on the metals at Vin's disposal. I will assume she doesn't have atium, but I think duralumin has become common enough that we can assume she has it. Now Raoden is a fast drawer, but faster than a spray of duralumin-steel pushed coins? I don't think so. And so down goes the Elantrian with a newly installed coin slot in his head.
Round 2 Kelsier vs Dilaf
Dilaf simply brings the wrong weapons to the fight. His defenses consist of hard skin and bones and a resistance to AonDor -not very helpful against an allomancer burning pewter. Plus Kelsier has the ability to turn Dilaf's offensive weapon, a metal sword, against him. Another mistborn makes it through to the next round.
Round 3 Sazed vs Susebron
I was hoping Sazed would get an easier first fight, because he is just awesome. But sadly I must agree with previous posters. Susebron simply takes control of the surroundings and encases Sazed in a suffocating coffin of cloth. If only it were a coolness contest... *sigh*
Round 4 Vasher vs The Lord Ruler
In the Battle of the Ancients both would be masters of their specific arsenal. So it comes down to which magic is a superior weapon. I belive that to belong to TLR. The problem is that after a short time duking it out, both competitors would realize this. There is one thing that could give the fight to Vasher and that is that Rashek is cocky. After all he's seen and conquered, the idea of being attacked by ropes and cloth is almost laughable. So when Vasher lobs his metal sword in Rashek's direction, he thinks nothing of it. He did afterall let two spears pierce him without batting an eye. What harm could this STILL SHEATHED sword do? But then, it is a pretty sword. Beautiful infact. It's almost as if its calling for me to pick it up, draw it, kill this scraggily nobody with it... Nightblood sucks TLR dry.
Round 5 Spook vs Vivenna
This is the fastest fight yet. Our favorite tin-savant sees everything the awakener in training throws at him and takes her down with a well placed cane blow to the head.
Round 6 Denth vs Marsh
This one is a tough call because we never get to see Denth's skill in awakening. Denth has the edge when it comes to actual sword play, but the allomancy/feruchemy combo brought to the table by Marsh allows him to stay far away and attack from a distance while healing from whatever wound Denth landed. Marsh wins.
Round 7 Vin vs Kelsier
The epic teacher against student showdown. I give this one to Vin. Even after a few months she gave him a run for his money. Now that she has a couple more years under her belt, it would be no contest.
Round 8 Susebron vs Vasher
Susebron is just too innocent for Nightblood to entrance him. Vasher knows exactly what he's up against though. He draws Nightblood, slashing through the various rugs and ropes and creates a dark cloud of smoke where the God King once stood. Wow i didn't realize Vasher would come this far.
Round 9 Spook vs Marsh
I just can't see Spook ever getting on the offensive. He would be simply too busy dodging the onslaught that would be Marsh to do anything. After a while, he would slip up and get stuck. (The tin-savant would get second in a coolness contest though)
Round 10 Vin vs Vasher
Hmm... This is a tough one. So far Nightblood has been the key to Vasher's success. It killed the two most super powered people in the competition, but Vin is niether TLR nor the God King. She is both paranoid and and has years of fighting experience. One of the first things she would do would be to push away his sword. With Nightblood out of the picture, Vasher goes down.
Round 11 Marsh vs Vin
Take away Marsh's fellow Inquisitors and Vin's AWESOME Preservation powers that unbalanced the fight in Hero of Ages and I think Vin will come out on top. She is simply a much better fighter than Marsh and has the knowledge of the Inquisitor's weakness. The other head spike is coming out.
Winner: Vin
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Hoid wins ;D
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Hoid wins ;D
Heh. That too.
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Raoden draws a shield aeon and therefore blocks coins...he also could if given the time like wilson says get much better and discover how to make seons which would help him in a fight if needed... if on Elantrian ground he is unbeatable, and yes if he is even on just another continent he loses badly
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I don't think it necessarily fair that seons, lifeless, koloss can be used, because then whoever has the largest army would win, and there would be no skilled needed. It wouln't matter how many seons or aeons Raoden could make if there's an army of Koloss or Lifeless running at him. I think that koloss seons lifeless and even kandra should be ignored in the showdowns.
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1: Vin is just too fast for Raoden. Even if he was able to draw an energy Aon, she would be fast enough to dodge it, or if, as suggested by little_wilson, Raoden turned all of her metal into feathers, she would still win because she would carrying her glass daggers with her, and she would quickly kill him with those. And this isn't even taking into account atium. One duralumin steelpush forward and either her with glass daggers unsheathed, or a handfull of coins would tear through Raoden. Vin wins.
2: Just like Kelsier's fight with the inquisitor, he grabs all of the metal possible and starts spinning it around his body. Until, that is, Kelsier gets bored of this and pushes all of it towards Dilaf. Instant death. Kelsier wins.
3: Susebron sends everything in the room towards Sazed. As Sazed is being choked by everything, he tries increasing his muscle and his body weight to stop the carpet and what not from choking him to death. Unfortunatley, there's just too many objects and he's overwhelmed. Susebron wins.
4: The Lord Ruler pulls the metals out of Vasher's body, or puts more metal into Vasher's body. You choose. The Lord Ruler wins.
5: Vivena is too new to Awakening. Spook wins.
6: Denth pulls out his sword quicker than the eye can see and runs at Marsh. Marsh then pulls the sword out of his hand and catches it, then pulls Denth towrds him using the swords sheath and skewers him with his own sword. Marth never even took a step forward. Marh wins.
7: Vin vs. Kelsier. The apprentice and her master. They both push away all of the other's metal and then run at eachother with glass daggers in their hands. As Kelsier gets closer to Vin she pulls her earing out of her ear and fires it through his face. And if you're not satisfied with that, Vin has duralumin and fires coins at him at a speed too faster than he's ever seen. He dies. Vin wins.
8: Susebron vs The Lord Ruler. The Lord Ruler burns atium and dodges everything Susebron throws at him, then when he's in close, kills him. Or you know, he could pull the metal out of his body. The Lord Ruler wins.
9: Spook vs Marsh. Marsh rips through Spook. Marsh wins.
10: Vin vs. The Lord Ruler. Vin beat him last time by comeplete luck, she's not so lucky this time. She dies. The Lord Ruler wins.
11: Marsh vs. The Lord Ruler. The Lord Ruler pulls/pushes the other spike out of Marsh's head. The Lord Ruler wins.
Winner: The Lord Ruler
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Just to point something out, every single one of these characters would be defeated if their opponent were to catch them at the start of the one character's power. Therefore, to make the fights a little more fair, and more interesting, it's better if we give the newbies (meaning the characters who have JUST come into power, like Viv and Raoden) time to learn. Preferably just as much time as their opponent has had.
So Raoden should get a good 3 or 4 years to learn the AonDor, if his opponent is an HoA Vin. And Viv should have a good 7 years to learn Awakening, since her opponent is Spook, who's had about the same time (if not more) to learn the intricacies behind Tin.
And as for the Lifeless, Koloss, Seon deal. I don't think any of us were involving Koloss in these scenarios. I used them as an example of TLR's extent of power, but not within the actual confines of the battle. Take Seons out? Sounds good to me. And Lifeless? Sure...Makes sense. Severely weakens the Awakeners, who are already at an extreme disadvantage against both the characters from Scadriel and from the Elantris world, but okay....
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WARNING! New Challenger Approaching!
Enter Alcatraz Smedry!
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Enter Alcatraz Smedry!
And the tide of the duels change. Alcatraz would win....Leavenworth would too, though, so...yeah....
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Round 1:
Vin vs. Raoden
Round 2:
Kelsier vs. Dilaf
Round 3:
Sazed vs. Susebron
Round 4:
Vasher vs. The Lord Ruler
Round 5:
Spook vs. Vivena
Round 6:
Denth vs. Marsh
winners of each continue on to next round like so:
Round 7:
winner of Round1 vs. Round 2
Round 8:
R3 vs. R4
Round 9:
R5 vs. R6
and continues with:
Round 10:
R7 vs. R8
and finally
Round 10:
R10 vs. R9
I expect every battle, and show your work. ;P
Let the battle begin.
Round 1: Vin vs. Raoden:
Vin wins she's known for being agile and adaptable. Raoden's Aons are good but I'd love to see him fight THIRTEEN Steel Inquistors, one of which being Marsh and do as well as Vin did. Vin will find a way.
Round 2:
Kell puts more holes in Dilaf than swiss cheese.
Round 3: Saze vs. Seb
The ONLY way Sazed is going to beat Susebron is to tap all his speed and strength at once, land a good hit before the God King can speak. God King wins.
Round 4: Vasher vs. Rashek
A good fight here but Vasher obviously knew something about Awakening metal. He awakens Rashek's Ferchemical stores. The Lord Ruler's Atium stores rip themseles out of his arms and Rashek dies of old age.
Round 5: Spook vs. Vivenna:
Spook is better trained and his tin will save him from attacks by Awakened objects.
Round 6: Marsh vs. Denth
Marsh of course :D
Round 7: Keliser vs. Vin:
Vin knows more about Allomancy than Kell and is more skilled Vin wins.
Round 8: Vasher vs. God King:
Vasher owns with his experience and power. Suseborn just is too new at this.
Round 9: Spook vs. Marsh
Marsh.
Round 10: Vin vs. Vasher
Vasher's about to get Nightblood though the chest.
Final Vin vs. Marsh:
Marsh doesn't have twelve Inquistors with him to soften Vin up this time.
Winner: Vin
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How is it that people put their favorites as the winners and can't do this with any sense of objectivity? same in the mistborn vs. elatarians thread...i prefer the Mistborn series but an all out war on Elantrain ground (because there power is useless if they aren't) the Elantrians win.
1. Elantrians aren't human they are faster stronger and more agile
2. Aons are very versatile and take little time to draw even at human speed and they aren't human
3. Tactics Aons can be invoked before a fight
This all comes back to people underestimating Elantrians meaning Raoden can kick all but maybe Vin and maybe Rashek and Marsh's butt and i say maybe because it would be EXTREMELY close
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hey little wilson is on ur side. he set raoden to win the whole thing.
i think the problem is that we've had WAY less experience with aons in combat than allomancy. for me at least, it is hard to imagine exactly what Raoden would do in these fights. i do have to argue the "little time to draw" point you made though. while a few of the Aons are pretty straight forward, most are more intricate. personally, i would take at least 30 seconds to draw most of them... and then u have to draw the modifiers, all of this without messing up. i don't know. that's kinda my reasoning for not going with raoden.
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First, I personally think the pairs could've been done a little better (to make it more equal with the battles. Give some of the characters a bit more of a chance, because seriously--Denth vs Marsh? Is there ANY question about the result of that? Everyone has put Marsh winning that with NO contest). I would do it more like this:
Round 1: Spook vs Vivenna (with about 3 years to learn Awakening a little more)
Round 2: Sazed vs Dilaf
Round 3: Vasher vs Marsh
Round 4: Vin vs Raoden (with 3-4 years of practice)
Round 5: Denth vs Kelsier
Round 6: The Lord Ruler vs Susebron
And the rest the same....I think this makes from here to the end a little more even too, so the new challenger doesn't all of a sudden have an easy battle. The easiest one would be Sazed/Dilaf vs Spook/Viv.
Even then, I still think Raoden would win. But that's just me.
As for Plas's comment about time. I don't think that really applies to Raoden. He's been practicing Aons practically his whole life, and now that he's in Elantris, he's practicing them even more. When someone practices THAT much drawing, they can get FAST. Amazingly fast. And that's pretty much the impression I got with Raoden. He can whip out those Aons.
Give him more time, and he'll get faster. And better. Less mistakes. More modifications.
And also, let me add that when I initially saw this showdown, I thought Vin would take the prize. I had no doubt, because the first fight I gave easily to Vin (that's what happens when you take a near-end-of-HoA Vin and put her agaisnt an end-of-Elantris Raoden, who hasn't been using the Aons with power behind them for even a week by the end of the book). All the fights after that are practially gimme's to Vin. Kelsier? Easy beat. Rashek? We saw the end of that. And Marsh? She'd take him down...
And then I looked back at the first fight and realized how unfair I was being to Raoden. It's only right to give him more time to practice and get better if I'm going to take Vin when she's had 3-4 years of practice. If I want to do them on equal footing as they are in the books, though....Let's take Vin just before the first Venture ball in FE. I think that would be a bit more fair. Maybe. Still, Vin would've had more time to practice though...
Anyway, those are just my thoughts....I've probably said too much. Oh well....
Oh, and Plas, I'm actually a 'she'...Not that it really matters, but, yeah.
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I've been seriously disappointed with the posts in this thread. Not one of them has had someone win by talking and convincing the other person to join their side. Or has provided an in-character reason for any of the pairs to be fighting in the first place.
Creativity, people!
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Round 1: Vin has to reach into her money pouch and bring a coin up to in between her center of mass and Raoden's head. Raoden has to draw a complicated symbol, the result of which might not be able to take down a Pewter burning Vin in one hit. Even giving Raoden time to practice, I give this to Vin.
Round 2: I very much doubt that Dilaf is tougher than an Inquisitor. Dilaf makes a good showing, but loses to the Survivor.
Round 3: Too dependent on terrain and the status of Sazed's metalminds, but the fight would probably go to Susebron more often then not. However, I see this devolving into a philosophical discussion, Suse strikes me as the kind to try to diffuse violence with talk which Saze will eagerly accept. Sazed takes this due to his better education.
Round 4: This depends entirely on Nightblood and TLR's reaction to it. I'm going to give this to Vasher, because I don't think that TLR can resist Nightbloold.
Round 5: If Spook can burn Pewter, then Viv loses. If he can't, then it's a contest. I think that Spook would still win most of the time even without Pewter, simply because he has more real fighting experience.
Round 6: A good swordsman vs TLR-lite? Sorry Denth, Marsh takes this.
Round 7: Vin vs Kelsier. A friendly sparring match that ends when Kelsier calls it and declares Vin to have surpassed him, that she is possibly the finest Allomancer he's ever seen, and that he couldn't be more proud of her. Vin wins.
Round 8: Sazed vs Vasher. I don't think Nightblood will be getting to Sazed, and with Feruchemy Vasher is outclassed in all the physical catagories. I see Sazed getting another win.
Round 9: Spook vs Marsh. Marsh takes Spook apart. If Marsh is himself, then this is only figurative.
Round 10: Vin vs Sazed. Another friendly sparring match. I can't see Sazed beating Vin in any kind of physical fight. They're too much on the same side for any other kind of fight though.
Round 11: Vin vs Marsh. Either a fight to the death or a friendly sparring match, depending on who's at the steering wheel. Without 12(!) other Inquisitors to back him up though, Marsh is going down either way.
These types of analysis are fun, I might run them through a different tournament structure later.
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How is it that people put their favorites as the winners and can't do this with any sense of objectivity? same in the mistborn vs. elatarians thread...i prefer the Mistborn series but an all out war on Elantrain ground (because there power is useless if they aren't) the Elantrians win.
1. Elantrians aren't human they are faster stronger and more agile
2. Aons are very versatile and take little time to draw even at human speed and they aren't human
3. Tactics Aons can be invoked before a fight
This all comes back to people underestimating Elantrians meaning Raoden can kick all but maybe Vin and maybe Rashek and Marsh's butt and i say maybe because it would be EXTREMELY close
Elantrans are faster and stronger than normal humans but so is anyone burning pewter. Not to mention Vin may hav Electrium or Atium. Raoden could take most people in this tourney up to Kelsier and Sazed he'd breeze through the Awakers and Spook, he's beaten Dilaf but Vin has come through in tighter spots than this. Rashek and Marsh are just beasts. Raoden just got a rotten first pairing.
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I've been seriously disappointed with the posts in this thread. Not one of them has had someone win by talking and convincing the other person to join their side. Or has provided an in-character reason for any of the pairs to be fighting in the first place.
Creativity, people!
Hoid and Adonalsium walked into a bar. "You know what would be cool?" Adonalsium asked.
"Gladatorial combat!"
"... That's not what I was going to say, but, um, sure."
So then they rounded up everyone and forced them to duel to the death.
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Elantrans are faster and stronger than normal humans but so is anyone burning pewter. Not to mention Vin may hav Electrium or Atium. Raoden could take most people in this tourney up to Kelsier and Sazed he'd breeze through the Awakers and Spook, he's beaten Dilaf but Vin has come through in tighter spots than this. Rashek and Marsh are just beasts. Raoden just got a rotten first pairing.
I think it's safe to say that Raoden would kick Shan's butt. Without even taking one little knick. Vin fought Shan at about the same place in learning (probably further along, because you gotta remember that Vin had been training with Kell for pretty much the last year, and Raoden had just BARELY gotten the Dor hooked back up with Elantris) that Raoden was by the end of Elantris. THIS is why I think if it was a fair fight--meaning Vin and Raoden had the SAME amount of time to prepare--Raoden would win. It would be close, but ultimately, he would win.
Ookla, I'm putting something together that will hopefully satisfy your creativity question....That is if Chaos's didn't (I personally think Chaos' is funny, and I was actually considering throwing Hoid in to my scenario, but then I decided not to, and now I really can't because Chaos beat me to it...argh). So yes. More creativity is forthcoming....
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Wilson, a question. If Raoden can draw these complicated symbols in the air fast enough to be relevant in combat because of practice, why doesn't Vin get the same benefit for her coin throwing? No doubt, an Elantrian is a huge threat if they have time to draw their Aons, but a Coinshot's coins are way to fast. Against a mistborn who has the benefit of pewter as well? No, I'd say that Shan has pretty good chances against Raoden, even if she would lose more often then not.
Raoden would mulch the Awakeners (including Susebron probably) and Spook, and could probably hold his own against Kel or Saze, but against Marsh, TLR, or Vin he would go down hard. Remember, Vin probably won't be standing still.
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An Elantrian (Elantrisian?) can take a beating before dying, and they could draw Vin into the bottom of the ocean or out into space in less than a minute.
Vasher wins as long as he has Nightblood though. Vasher sits in a corner hiding as a Grey, his opponent touches Nightblood (sheathless) and dies. The end. :D
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An Elantrian (Elantrisian?) can take a beating before dying, and they could draw Vin into the bottom of the ocean or out into space in less than a minute.
And in the time it takes to draw that extremely complex Aon, Vin has put a coin through his head. Or hit him hard enough to interrupt his drawing.
Vasher wins as long as he has Nightblood though. Vasher sits in a corner hiding as a Grey, his opponent touches Nightblood (sheathless) and dies. The end. :D
Not quite. A number of characters in this tourney are too good for Nightblood's aura of attraction to work on them.
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And in the time it takes to draw that extremely complex Aon, Vin has put a coin through his head. Or hit him hard enough to interrupt his drawing.
Not quite. A number of characters in this tourney are too good for Nightblood's aura of attraction to work on them.
As a sniper firing at victims who are unaware of her presence, Vin would indeed win (Not that I would apply the term sniping to the spray and pray tactics Mistborn employ with their coins. We have yet to hear of an Allomancer that is able to push a single coin into a person in battle. Aiming from your midsection is very difficult.). If the Elantrian is expecting any kind of trouble, you can bet that they have an impenetrable force field around them, allowing them any time they need to draw complex Aons. If they don't expect it, they can likely whip something simple out to protect them while they protect themselves more fully and move on from there.
Nightblood doesn't need to attract anyone with the aura. All of these characters are curious individuals and would at least touch a sword left stuck into the ground with nobody around that they can see. Seeing as how most of them only have one soul, they die immediately. Denth wouldn't fall for the Nightblood ploy because he knows all about the sword, but we saw how that battle went down already.
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And where have we seen an impenetrable force field/shield in Elantris? Chapter and page number please.
Also, curious? Vin is downright paranoid, she's also too good of a person to not be repelled by Nightblood like those two mooks were. Several other characters like Saze and Raoden would have no interest in Nightblood. Whether Marsh is attracted depends on how Nightblood's aura and Hemalurgy interact.
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Indestructible walls, whether they're visible or not qualify as impenetrable force fields, right? Citation: the city of Elantris before the earthquake.
Vin's so paranoid that she wouldn't touch a sword because it was just sitting there acting suspicious. Right. Since none of the worlds we have visited so far have any concept of cursed items (including people in Warbreaker, seeing as how only a few people know about Nightblood), nobody would have any reason to be suspicious of a sword. As for Raoden and Sazed, they are scholars. They study things, which often involves touching said things.
Should it be a gladiator-style fight, and the contestants enter the arena at the same time, Vasher merely has to use any means to make his opponent touch the sword for a split second. He would probably be able to talk most of them into it. Especially since he can appear however he wants. :)
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When talking about Nightblood, you have to remember Viv's reaction to the sword. She didn't know about the sword at all, and there was Vasher telling her to pick it up. She felt nauseated even being near it, because of her goodness. The same would happen with quite a few of the others. I think Marsh would be taken down by it--I think the whole nature of Hemalurgy would make the person "evil" enough for Nightblood to kill.
But yes. Vin, Raoden, Saze, Spook, Viv, and Seb would be repelled by the sword. You might even be able to throw Kell in there. Maybe. Or possibly even Rashek, but Kell would go in before Rashek would. It depends on how intentions work. Would Kell's reasons for killing so many nobles matter? Would Rashek's reasons for being a tyrant matter--since he was trying to contain Ruin.
As for the question about Vin's coins. I was thinking Raoden would be able to transform any of them. Figure out a modifier to turn them into something harmless. Aon Shao is actually not that intricate. There are MANY other more complicated Aons. A Protection Aon I imagine could work fairly well too. And that's a VERY easy Aon. It might not put up a really strong shield, but it would probably be powerful enough to block a few coins that Vin shot out. And to take her down, Aon Daa is pretty simple, in comparison to some of the other offensive Aons (Aon Daa is energy. It's the one used at the end in Teod, to take out a whole ton of the monks on the docks).
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Indestructible walls, whether they're visible or not qualify as impenetrable force fields, right? Citation: the city of Elantris before the earthquake.
Chapter and page number where it says Elantris' walls are indestructible? Not to mention that Elantris is clearly a very intensive project, and might have wards that a single Elantrian can't make alone. Frankly, there have been no indication of impenetrable magical barriers in Elantris.
Vin's so paranoid that she wouldn't touch a sword because it was just sitting there acting suspicious. Right. Since none of the worlds we have visited so far have any concept of cursed items (including people in Warbreaker, seeing as how only a few people know about Nightblood), nobody would have any reason to be suspicious of a sword. As for Raoden and Sazed, they are scholars. They study things, which often involves touching said things.
Frankly, yes, she is. Remember that Nightblood's aura makes good people want to not touch it. And Raoden and Sazed wouldn't take time to examine a sword while in a fight.
Should it be a gladiator-style fight, and the contestants enter the arena at the same time, Vasher merely has to use any means to make his opponent touch the sword for a split second. He would probably be able to talk most of them into it. Especially since he can appear however he wants. :)
Bullshit. Most of the people here are smart enough to wonder why their opponent is trying to get them to touch his weapon instead of just using its sharp parts on them.
@Wilson, yes, exactly my point with Nightblood.
However, Daa seemed to me like a straight firing, unaimable thing. It has only been used in barrages with many people firing them after all. And have we actually seen what Aon Shao does? If it's so useful, why didn't he use in in Teod?
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I'm pretty sure Aon Shao was what changed Dilaf's lady-friend. And it's also what Raoden and Galladon used to look different. I imagine modifiers could be put on the Aon to target other objects. I'm not positive about that, but AonDor seems versatile enough to allow that.
Regardless, Raoden would need more time to learn the individual power of the Aons, and the different modifiers that could be put on to get the Aons to do EXACTLY what he wants. By the time that he gets to Teod, he hasn't really had much time to do that. Give him some more time to experiment and I think it becomes possible.
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I thought it was an incorrectly drawn healing Aon that messed up Dilaf's wife? And Aon Shao is useless for protection, as proved when Serene takes a sword to Raoden's face (If you have correctly identified what Shao is used for).
We haven't seen any protection Aons in action yet, so we can't really say how useful they would be against an Allomancer of Vin's caliber.
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There is a protection Aon, but it's not portable. Raoden tries to use it in the alley, but Dilaf makes it disapear with his Anti-Dor powers.
Also, reason for fighting.... hmmm.... The Voidbringers (sorry they are the only ones that may be advanced enough to be able to do it) bring everyone together and says that they are going to destroy loser's planets, but the winner's planet will survive.
There. That's motivation.
Although, who knows. Denth may not care to fight, as long as Vasher dies. That's all that Denth has been trying to do for the last 300 years.
And Marsh is a whole different case... let's say that they threatened to destroy all of the atium in the known universe. And they told Marsh that they would destroy the world if he won.
So, for experience...... Denth and Vasher right before their big fight (Vasher with all his breaths)
Raoden with 3 years of experience
Vin and Marsh right before the big Duel with the Inquisitors
Spook pre-spike
Suseborn with tongue,
Sazed with normal Furchemal amounts,
TLR before his encounter with Vin,
Dilaf and Kelsier with normal.
I say that it's in a huge coliseum with tapestries. Lots of Tapestries. But also Rocks and Obstacles in the middle. And everyone has weapons that they would normally have (Vin, obsidian knives and coins, Vasher with Nightblood, etc)
Ooh! I have an idea! Also all of the bodies are just left in the wide open.... were anyone can get them.....
But no magic for Lifeless!
Let's say that the Voidbringers arranged a way to make it so Raoden has inside-Elantris power.
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I think that you underestimate Nightblood's power and Vasher's cleverness. We have no examples of non-Awakeners being repulsed by Nightblood. Of course, Nightblood could kill everyone in the tourney and only Raoden could destroy Nightblood. Either Nightblood or Raoden win. An inanimate object is allowed to win, right? (I was originally going to say in my first post in this thread that Nightblood would win, but decided that since Vasher was Nightblood's owner, I had to make Vasher the winner.)
The point isn't whether Elantris' walls are indestructible (they were enhanced with Aons, but I don't know if Brandon said which ones), but if a simple barrier can be raised quickly enough to prevent being shredded by a maelstrom of coins. Aons are a very nice all-purpose magic, though they take a comparatively long time to use. It's usefulness in a dogfight is probably pretty much limited to precautions taken beforehand.
Of course, this is all assuming that we take each character at the point in their life that's most entertaining to us as viewers without threatening our favorite's chances. All in all, the Hero of Ages wins hands down. :PSuseborn with tongue,
Say that again, slower and more seductively this time for the ladies. *shifty eyes*
With Zas' criteria, I have to vote for TLR. There's no mist for Vin to use (doesn't matter, as her earring is standard equipment for her), so she loses, and nobody can kill TLR without the power of a god to rip his age spikes out.
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i voted we postpone further judgement on an elantrian's fighting potential until the elantris sequel. hopefully we'll get more experience with AonDor then. ugh that'll be quite a while huh?
maybe i should start pulling for sazed and feruchemy to beat everyone. push the argument in a new direction...
and i apologize, little wilson. i didn't me to offend
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Plas--it didn't offend me. I'm used to it. "He" is pretty much a default in internet language, so I think all girls get mistaken as a guy eventually....
And waiting? But it's fun talking about this! It makes me think about the Aons and hypothesize about what they can do, and how they might interact. And I actually really am thinking about it. It may SEEM like I'm gunning for Elantris the whole way and not even really seriously considering the other systems and players, but I am....(And it's not that Elantris is my favorite. Mistborn wins that...). Plus, the Elantris sequel is over 5 years away. That's a long time to wait....
Aranfan--I didn't say Shao would protect. Aon Edo is the protection Aon. And yes, it was an incorrectly drawn healing Aon. But I think the mistake must've been something that turned it into a different Aon--because I thought when mistakes are made, the Aon just dissipates. I could be wrong about that.
EDIT: And Zas, tapestries? Totally reminds of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. "This is a castle and there are many tapestries. But if you are Scottish Law then I am Mickey Mouse!"
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i think we may be underestimating feruchemy. what would happen if a feruchemist squeezed ALL their reserves (useful ones) out in a single second. speed, strength, weight, senses, and the almost always forgotten mental speed. essentially time would slow down to almost stopping for that feruchemist. what's easier than beating a frozen opponent?
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I think that you underestimate Nightblood's power and Vasher's cleverness. We have no examples of non-Awakeners being repulsed by Nightblood.
We have no examples of non-awakeners being attracted by Nightblood either, if we use awakener to mean someone who can awaken given enough Breath.
With Zas' criteria, I have to vote for TLR. There's no mist for Vin to use (doesn't matter, as her earring is standard equipment for her), so she loses, and nobody can kill TLR without the power of a god to rip his age spikes out.
Vin doesn't need the mists for that, she can just use Duralumin. Remember, it's a question of sheer power being able to pull things out of the body. TLR tore Vin's earring out without drawing on the Mists, so a Duralumin fueled tug should be able to take out his bracers.
@Wilson, we haven't seen Edo in action. Without seeing it in action we have no basis by which to judge its effectiveness. We'll just go back and forth over whose speculation is most or least unfounded. Going by what has been shown so far however, Vin wins.
@Plas, I'm not sure Mental Speed works that way. And if a Feruchemist did pull a stunt like that and their opponent doesn't go down, they're SOL.
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how else would it work?
and true it is a gamble. but i figure if you can't win when u think as fast as a supercomputer, move faster than the eye can track, and have the strength of... a lot, you don't deserve to. and this is a one on one competition...
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After thinking it out a while, I don't see any fair scenario where The Lord Ruler doesn't win.
First off, we have seen how Mental Speed works. Somewhere around pg. 568 in the hardback Well of Ascension, Sazed uses Zinc while fighting Marsh. Earlier in the fight he uses it as well, and can accurately predict the trajectory of Marsh's lamp. Finally, Sazed is filling that Zincmind earlier in the book, and he says his thoughts feel slowed and bogged down.
Second point, an Allomancer of the Lord Ruler's caliber can push on metals inside other's bodies at will. Unless one of these participants are anemic or have another similar condition, pushing on the bloodstream seems like an effective tool to me.
Final two points, Brassminds actually warm up the user, and Sazed says that a Burned Feruchemical charge releases the power tenfold. (Probably a very general assumption, but gives a ballpark range to work off of, as the only other time we might possibly see the combo in action is when the Lord Ruler moves inhumanly fast while fighting Vin. But that could just be Feruchemy, or tenfold speed.)
So in the end, when the Lord Ruler is fighting an Allomancer or Feruchemist; he uses Steelpushes, Zincminds, Ironminds, Goldminds, and Atium/Electrum to defeat them. While facing down an Awakener; Steelminds, Zincminds, Goldminds, Pewterminds, and Atium seem enough to handle most causes. If he does get entangled in an Awakened object, Burning a Brassmind and Goldmind/Pewtermind together should heat the body up sufficiently to set the object on fire, while staying alive. Finally, while facing down an Elantrian; Steelpushes and Ironpulls on the limbs to prevent Aon drawing, or to crush them against their own impenetrable wall, Zincminds or Atium to determine what they are doing and how to counter it, Soothing to distract them if necessary, etc.
As for Nightblood, I think Rashek might be too arrogant to pick up the sword. Why would he need a sword? I see a much more likely possibility of the Lord Ruler Rioting Vasher's anger and causing Vasher himself to draw the sword, then either Steelpushing it out of the way or using other methods to avoid Vasher until Nightblood does the job.
I suppose Raoden could set up a perpetually active metal-transforming Aon, but that smacks a little too much of forewarning on his part, and the Lord Ruler with the same amount of foresight could probably pull off a victory from afar using metal-launched objects, or by crushing Raoden into the ground if he was close enough.
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Czanos, you are absolutely correct except for the case of Vin. Vin knows how to take him down extremely quickly, and with Duralumin is strong enough to do it without the mists.
I don't quite agree with you about Vasher and Nightblood, but I could see TLR waiting until after he's disposed of Vasher to get his trophy.
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We have no examples of non-awakeners being attracted by Nightblood either, if we use awakener to mean someone who can awaken given enough Breath.
I was talking about anyone who has a single breath when I said that we didn't have any examples of non-Awakeners being repulsed by Nightblood. Unfortunately, all of these that I can think of were criminals, so all we can do is theorize.Vin doesn't need the mists for that, she can just use Duralumin. Remember, it's a question of sheer power being able to pull things out of the body. TLR tore Vin's earring out without drawing on the Mists, so a Duralumin fueled tug should be able to take out his bracers.
Not necessarily. Vin got lucky, and TLR removed her earring. She burned the eleventh metal, and I'm not sure if it was that or the mists that allowed her to see what she needed to do to defeat TLR. If we allow Vin the knowledge she has right before she goes fully Preservation and TLR is left with only the knowledge he had before he fought Vin, of course Vin wins. She already knows how to defeat TLR, but only because TLR is already dead. So it's a paradox. For Vin to have the knowledge to defeat TLR, she needs either the mists or the eleventh metal, which she doesn't carry with her as standard equipment. To have the power to defeat TLR, she needs the mists or duralumin, and to give her the latter is pretty cheap since she didn't gain the knowledge of how to make it until after defeating TLR. If we give TLR the same courtesy as Vin, and use him right before he dies, he knows what Vin can do and could probably prevent it. The same paradoxical problems exist with Denth and Vasher, though to a lesser extent.
Czanos, I'm not sure if the metal from the bloodstream trick would work for TLR. Of course, one thing to remember when having TLR in the fight is that he normally carries metalminds that he has been filling for a thousand years. That's some pretty sweet starting equipment. He can survive anything short of removing his bracers of immortality or contact with nightblood. If we take each of these characters at the last point we see them as a mortal, I think that TLR wins.
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And where have we seen an impenetrable force field/shield in Elantris? Chapter and page number please.
It's at the end of Chapter 62:
As he dodged. Raoden searched through his memory of Aons. Thinking quickly, he rolled to his feet, rapidly scribbling Aon Edo before him. It was a simple character, requiring only six strokes, and he finished it before Dilaf could make a third attack. The Aon flashed briefly, and then a thin wall of light appeared between himself and Dilaf.
Dilaf tested the wall hesitantly with the tip of his sword, and the wall resisted. The more one pressed against it, the more it drew from the Dor. pressing back with equal strength. Dilaf could not reach him.
Keep in mind, he drew this Aon while being attacked, in close melee within the confines of an alley, by a highly trained swordsmen with supernatural strength and speed. He'd also just been wounded a second before.
Also, not only did it stop the attack of a man with supernatural strength (probably around pewter burning strength) but it did so while weakened. Raoden was not in Elantris when he made the Dor,
IMO, an Elantrian would win in the Sanderson showdown. Unless someone like the Lord Ruler took them by surprise, was close enough to kill them in 1 second before they could react, etc.
We only get to see what an Elantrian can do, minutes after they regain their powers. In Harry Potter terms, these guys aren't even Freshmen or first year students yet. And they annihilate an invading army, possessing soldiers with supernatural enhancements to strength and speed, in under an hour.
There is a reason they were called Gods.
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thank you czanos for the mental speed citing. i'm suprised that brandon didn't use it more as it can be kind of like a feruchemist's atium. most likely because it is difficult to store. this split second feruchemical burst sounds like an instant kill to me.
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Thank you Erik. I will concede that Vin would probably lose against Raoden if he opened with Edo. If he started with Daa or the fire one then Vin has a chance.
Also, TLR can push on the metal in people's bodies, but only to the point of pushing the body around. Which would still be extremely useful against the Elantrians.
I'm thus seeing Vin, TLR, and Raoden as the main contenders, with who wins dependent on who fights who in what order. Nightblood gives Vasher a chance to win, so he'd be a forth contender.
With Erik's citation, I feel confident in giving the win to TLR as I now feel he will deal with Vasher before claiming Nightblood as a trophy.
@Plasman, the mental speed used to calculate trajectories and the mental speed you are talking about are very different (you're talking about decision making speed). I don't think that it would work quite the way you think it would work.
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Also, TLR can push on the metal in people's bodies, but only to the point of pushing the body around. Which would still be extremely useful against the Elantrians.
I think you could make an argument for this not working on the Elantrians. Its shown in the book that they do not have normal blood, their blood is a clear liquid. I believe the iron in your blood is mainly what makes blood look red, so I think its safe to say that Elantrians don't possess enough in their bodies for the Lord Ruler to push on.
This is assuming that Aon Edo wouldn't stop the push in the first place.
Its a tough call, we get to see a lot more of how awesome TLR is. While we only get to see minutes of Raoden's power, and really, he's a total noob at it.
Still, I think if Raoden needed to take down the Lord Ruler, he could. Aon Dor is versatile and powerful. Unless you're saying that Raoden is surprised I think he can take down TLR. He can teleport away from an encounter, then send Seons to spy on TLR and pick the time and place of the fight.
With just 3 of the Aons Raoden can teleport, protect himself and destroy just about anything. And he has a lot more Aons to work with. Also, I've noticed that there is a Aon for almost each of the powers of Allomancy:
# Ata (grace, smoothness)
# Daa (power, energy)
# Ela (focus, center)
# Eon (willpower, endurance)
# Ene (wit, cleverness)
# Ien (healing)
# Ire (time, age)
# Nae (sight, clarity)
# Rao (spirit, essence)
# Sao (intelligence, learning)
I don't know if its that much of a stretch to say that Raoden could make himself faster, stronger, tougher, then TLR.
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I'm taking Raoden as of the end of Elantris, because if we don't we either do him a disservice or are dealing with a speculative possible Raoden instead of the actual Raoden.
I'm also assuming pretty much no preptime before the fight. The Allomancers have their standard metals in their bellies, the Feruchemists have their metalminds filled up to their usual amount, the Awakeners have their Breath and any standard commands set up, and the Elantrians aren't in zombie mode, but none of them are given time to prepare beyond that. Partly this is because of how Broken Elantrians are with preptime. I'm also assuming this happens in some sort of arena and that leaving the arena would count as a forfeiture.
Citation on the blood thing?
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I don't know if its that much of a stretch to say that Raoden could make himself faster, stronger, tougher, then TLR.
Ah, don't some of the baddies in Elantris use tattoos to enhance themselves this way? It seems that an Aon drawn in the air only lasts for a few seconds, so having to constantly draw buffs would hamper combat quite a bit.
Aran, the Mistborn don't get spare vials at all? Most of them do carry quite a few spare pewter vials, mixes, and at least one atium or electrum.
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We have no examples of non-awakeners being attracted by Nightblood either, if we use awakener to mean someone who can awaken given enough Breath.
I was talking about anyone who has a single breath when I said that we didn't have any examples of non-Awakeners being repulsed by Nightblood. Unfortunately, all of these that I can think of were criminals, so all we can do is theorize.
Isn't there the maid in the God King's palace who is repulsed by Nightblood? Not to mention two of the servants who try to stop Vasher from entering Mercystar's tunnels?
Of course, in principle all people in Warbreaker are Awakeners. They're just mostly Awakeners with only one or no breath, which isn't good for much.
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I don't remember a maid being repulsed. I'll have to check for that. The servants in Mercystar's apartments were priests, so they all had extra breaths.
I thought that Awakening was something that anyone from anywhere could learn, regardless of heritage. If not, it's still debatable whether people who aren't from that world would be able to sense anything amiss with a breath-enhanced sword.
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so i pulled out WoA and found that Sazed uses zinc twice during his fight with Marsh. the first time he uses it he plots out the trajectory of the flying lamp and is able to use it against Marsh. but i'd like to point out the second time along with words that accompany each usage, "Sazed's thoughts sped up" and then it says that he became more aware of his situation. this points me toward believing he was thinking things through at a faster speed than normal and not simply plotting trajectories faster, which the brain does in a split second anyway.
has anyone else read aether of night? where would Raeth fit into this battle i wonder...
and sortitus, just because they were priests doesn't mean they auotmatically had more than one breath. i'm pretty sure llarimar only has one
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I'm taking Raoden as of the end of Elantris, because if we don't we either do him a disservice or are dealing with a speculative possible Raoden instead of the actual Raoden.
Even still. The fight starts. Shields come up. Raoden then blasts TLR to powder. Also, we know that an Elantrian can turn garbage into corn. Why not turn metal into garbage. When his armbands are turned into stale donuts, TLR is screwed :D
Citation on the blood thing?
The priest lunged forward, and Raoden barely rolled away in time to avoid being impaled. As it was, Dilaf's attack sliced through the flesh of Raoden's left forearm, spilling silvery-white Elantrian blood.
Same spot as the Force Shield reference.
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Ah yes, there it is. Page 510 a maid gets sick when Vahser draws Nightblood.
I can't find the priest citation. All of the priests present when Viv goes to the palace for the first time have the first heightening, though. The servants were not stated as priests, and no mention was given to the amount of breaths they held.
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I don't know if its that much of a stretch to say that Raoden could make himself faster, stronger, tougher, then TLR.
Ah, don't some of the baddies in Elantris use tattoos to enhance themselves this way? It seems that an Aon drawn in the air only lasts for a few seconds, so having to constantly draw buffs would hamper combat quite a bit.
Aran, the Mistborn don't get spare vials at all? Most of them do carry quite a few spare pewter vials, mixes, and at least one atium or electrum.
Well, I thought that went without saying. So yes.
so i pulled out WoA and found that Sazed uses zinc twice during his fight with Marsh. the first time he uses it he plots out the trajectory of the flying lamp and is able to use it against Marsh. but i'd like to point out the second time along with words that accompany each usage, "Sazed's thoughts sped up" and then it says that he became more aware of his situation. this points me toward believing he was thinking things through at a faster speed than normal and not simply plotting trajectories faster, which the brain does in a split second anyway.
The brain doesn't calculate trajectories that exactly in a split second. I really don't think Mental Speed works the way you think it works.
I'm taking Raoden as of the end of Elantris, because if we don't we either do him a disservice or are dealing with a speculative possible Raoden instead of the actual Raoden.
Even still. The fight starts. Shields come up. Raoden then blasts TLR to powder. Also, we know that an Elantrian can turn garbage into corn. Why not turn metal into garbage. When his armbands are turned into stale donuts, TLR is screwed :D
Thank you for the citation. However, I'm not convinced that the silvery blood is an actual change in what the blood is as opposed to it just being infused with the Dor's power. In such a case, TLR would still be perfectly able to push an Elantrian around.
Your scenario depends on TLR not being able to push Raoden around at all, and that TLR's immense Soothing doesn't slow down Raoden's reaction times, and that there isn't any metal behind Raoden that TLR can use to take Raoden by surprise, and that TLR isn't fast enough to stop Raoden's drawing or simply dodge (Not likely with how much speed he must have stored up), and and and... There's a reason The Lord Ruler was considered a god. This leaves aside the unlikelyness of Raoden specifically changing the bracers.
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Thank you for the citation. However, I'm not convinced that the silvery blood is an actual change in what the blood is as opposed to it just being infused with the Dor's power. In such a case, TLR would still be perfectly able to push an Elantrian around.
If the blood still contained a lot of iron, it would be red. There blood has been changed. I can tell you that Brandon probably got this idea from Mormon doctrine, there are some books out there that talk about translated beings (angels) having their blood changed, which is why they are no longer mortal.
Your scenario depends on TLR not being able to push Raoden around at all, and that TLR's immense Soothing doesn't slow down Raoden's reaction times, and that there isn't any metal behind Raoden that TLR can use to take Raoden by surprise, and that TLR isn't fast enough to stop Raoden's drawing or simply dodge (Not likely with how much speed he must have stored up), and and and... There's a reason The Lord Ruler was considered a god. This leaves aside the unlikelyness of Raoden specifically changing the bracers.
Even if he could push them around. I don't see how it matters. They put up their shields and are then pushed against a wall but unharmed. Also, there really is no evidence that TLR can push on the blood inside someone. I've reread the battle between him and Vin, he pushed on the metals she'd drank that were in her stomach, not on her blood.
If we're in a small arena then Raoden could throw up his shield, then keep making Aon Ehe (fire) until the entire arena is one big bonfire. Fire doesn't harm Elantrians.
Slowly, their bodies glistening with a light both more luminous and more powerful than the flames around them, the Elantrians began to step from the blaze, unharmed by its heat.
As for Soothing Raodens emotions. We never see this used in combat to any effect the the books. Even when TLR uses it on Vin. It's not a combat ability.
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While Sanderson's religion is part of who he is, and thus influences what he writes, he as said multiple times that he is not trying to export his theology in whole or in part. As such, I don't consider Mormon Doctrine enough evidence for Elantrians not having significant amounts of trace metals in their bodies as humans do.
I'd also like to note that Vin felt TLR's steelpush all over her body, instead of just her stomach. As to how it matters, Raoden is in the middle of drawing an Aon when TLR suddenly pushes his arm, BAM Aon is ruined.
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While Sanderson's religion is part of who he is, and thus influences what he writes, he as said multiple times that he is not trying to export his theology in whole or in part. As such, I don't consider Mormon Doctrine enough evidence for Elantrians not having significant amounts of trace metals in their bodies as humans do.
He doesn't have to export his theology onto anyone to use ideas that he's got from doctrine. I doubt you could find one Mormon out there that has read Elantris and didn't think about some of the doctrine on translated beings.
I'd also like to note that Vin felt TLR's steelpush all over her body, instead of just her stomach. As to how it matters, Raoden is in the middle of drawing an Aon when TLR suddenly pushes his arm, BAM Aon is ruined.
I just reread the battle and its never said that she couldn't move her arms, etc. Only that it felt like the metal in her stomach was going to be ripped out. I think think its a moot point though. Elantrians don't have red blood, which means there is no iron in their blood.
Also, by your reasoning the Lord Ruler would just start a fight by pushing on the blood of whoever he was fighting. They can't move, he wins. It makes for a very boring, and short discussion.
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Elements in the Human Body (http://chemistry.about.com/cs/howthingswork/f/blbodyelements.htm)
We have more calcium in our bodies than any other metals combined, so giving a generous percentage we are still under 2.5% (1/40) metal. We never see any alkali (or alkaline earth) metals being pushed that I can remember in the books, so I'd assume that they're not included in pushing or pulling. If they were, Vin (or TLR, for that matter) would be burning duralumin to pull vital bones from peoples' bodies on a regular basis.
I just reread the battle and its never said that she couldn't move her arms, etc. Only that it felt like the metal in her stomach was going to be ripped out. I think think its a moot point though. Elantrians don't have red blood, which means there is no iron in their blood.
Whether or not the Elantrians have no iron in their blood is a non-issue. There are only 3-4 grams in the average adult body at any given time, which is a very small amount. If TLR pushed Vin using the iron and copper that was in her body naturally, he'd be pushing less than a half of a percent of her body weight. Even with duralumin and his Feruchemical tricks, I don't see this being a viable combat technique in any situation. If anything, he'd end up blasting all of the Allomantically active metals out of his opponent's body. Painful, but not an instagib for most of these characters. If the metals, against all odds, stay in their body, think of the resistance of a very light breeze.
Speaking of instagib, in the Unreal series teleporters can be used to kill people, which makes me wonder about Elantrians' capability in this regard....
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Aon infused armour will probably come out in the war to come so if mistborn are allowed there metals you have3 to give the elantrians tools and stuff they would take to battels...not to mention the monks have tattoos which are filled with power so why would elantrians not use this