Timewaster's Guide Archive
Local Authors => Brandon Sanderson => Topic started by: jamhaw on May 22, 2009, 06:59:50 PM
-
I saw in a recent interview http://davebrendon.wordpress.com/2009/05/15/an-interview-with-brandon-sanderson/
this Finally, Michael A. Stackpole once commented on whether or not the world of the Wheel of Time should be expanded by having other writers writing the stories of, let’s say, Artur Hawkwing’s rise to power or how the Seanchan tamed Seanchan, and so letting Robert Jordan’s world expand and grow – good idea or bad idea?
Does anyone know where Stackpole said this?
-
That idea is, as is becoming popular to say in this forum, TERRIBAD!!!!!!!!!
-
If some form of quality could be ensured i wouldn't see anything wrong with this. Why can't WOT be the new Star Wars?
-
this would be a bad idea imo. lets have authors focus on their own ideas rather than WoT. let's just leave WoT alone after Memory of Light.
and why cant WoT be another Star Wars? well, if you want a book series full of inconsistencies and poorly written novels, then sure it can. but why would we? also, given the amount of research that would be asked of the authors tackling a novel in the Jordanverse, I think many writers would be hesitant to go there. The last thing we need is someone like Martin spending 3 years writing a WoT and postponing his own series...
I'm glad I made the word terribad so well liked around here. It has so many uses.
-
Good, bad or indifferent, the idea is manageable. If Harriet were to trademark everything it could turn into a franchise like the Trek or Who books. But yeah, that would diminish the work, unless the number of authors was kept small. On the other hand, Harriet could act as Compiler and editor, and do a series of anthologies like Aspirin did with Sanctuary. That would work nicely and preserve the dignity.
In general though I think WoT should be left to rest. It would be the most humane thing to do both for Rigney's memory and for the sake of the readers. Not to mention letting Harriet have some time to heal without impatient fans like myself demanding her to keep focusing on WoT and by extension her loss.
-
At Jordan con Tom Dorghty was very insistent in wanting the outrigger novels to be writen. I would think though that Brandon would want to get back to his work after aMoL was finished, I certainly want him to.
-
Yeah, good are TOR may be. Publishers are not writers. Farming it out just to try and wring that last potential dollar from a valuable "franchise" will cheapen the whole and may negatively affect sales of further editions, like boxed sets etcetera. If young readers just coming along hear about the latest bad knock off, it may discourage them from investing in the WoT books.
I can see it now, Piers Anthony's Wheel of Thyme where a young maid learns to weave threads of Air and water and earth, to make a magical tapestry that opens a portal allowing the Dark One to escape, where he is revealed to be Grundy Gollum covered entirely in Baking chocolate. . .
-
Publishers are no less susceptible to the lure of franchise development than any other entity which has possession of a license to print money.
You're simply going to have to trust that the people who make the decisions do so wisely. Because expecting them to leave it set in stone after the last Sanderson book is wishful thinking... it might happen, but I won't hold the baby's breath waitin'.
And playing the Piers Anthony card is hardly fair. Plus you forgot to include panties.
-
Finally, Michael A. Stackpole once commented on whether or not the world of the Wheel of Time should be expanded by having other writers writing the stories of, let’s say, Artur Hawkwing’s rise to power or how the Seanchan tamed Seanchan, and so letting Robert Jordan’s world expand and grow – good idea or bad idea?
Does anyone know where Stackpole said this?
I'm almost certain he said this on the Dragonpage Cover-to-Cover podcast. They've had discussions in the past about the pros and cons of franchising, fan-fiction and "zombies" (series which continue to live on after the author's death).
It's a good podcast (though I'm slowly tiring of M&M's harping on "new media" publishing, I like it better when they spend time talking about craft and new books and interviewing authors). In fact, it's where I discovered Brandon Sanderson, when he was promoting Mistborn as a guest on the show. Also how I discovered John Scalzi, Jay Lake and T.A. Pratt.
-
I didn't realize there was anyone that actually hated Piers Anthony.
Yeah I figure Outriggers will be written I just don't think they will be written by Sanderson is all. Sanderson has been careful to hedge and say "wait and see" so that he doesn't have to commit to anything yet.
-
I don't hate Anthony. I was just pointing out that Other treatments of the material, lacking explicit notes and partial drafts are guaranteed to be disappointing at the very best. More likely they will just be huge disasters that put people off WoT.
I guess are I do hate any of the Xanth books after Centaur Isle? He was just phoning it in for decades. Largely because publishers wouldn't give him the opportunity to publish anything else.
-
Yeah the Xanth books seemed pretty much just about making pun after pun after boring pun. "through the Ice" was at least interesting to read.
You are right though that getting others on the Outriggers it won't be a Jordan novel. Where at least aMoL has extensive notes, outline and scenes written. There is very little for the Outriggers. I know that doesn't really stop others from exapanding on a universe, usually they at least wait a few decades after the author's death to do that. Like with the new Oz books that are out.
-
Well Ike I said, if Harriet trademarks the critical terms, like saidin, saidar, taaveren and any of the other old tongue terms that are significant like Aeil, Aes Sedai and Asha'man. Then writing "outriggers" is made impossible. Magel Rodenbury kept the Trek thing in the family that way for decades. It's ironic that Nurse Chapel becomes the voice of Trek, but hey wait, something about the the computer voice. . .
-
I'm against it. I don't think that a lot of authors have what it takes to write something that could be up to par with what Jordan created. I believe in Sanderson because he's just that damn good. he also has Harriet's help and Jordan's other editor/whatevertheyares with him. I didn't read the Star Wars novels but I did read the offshoots they did with the Bourne books, and they were just terrible. There's too much ground to cover in a series this complex.
-
Many of the SW EU books are quite good. And they served a real purpose, carrying on the adventures of the main cast long after the end of RotJ. The X-Wing novels were a particular favorite of mine, and I don't see why a similar concept can't work for the WoT (that being the adventures of characters who exist in the same world, whether before/during/after the events of the main series, but who only peripherally interact with the main cast).
-
I guess I could see it working, but I wouldn't be interested in reading them. To be honest though, I don't see it happening. Star Wars is a much bigger/ more popular franchise than WoT.
-
Sure, why not? If you don't want to read anyone other than RJ writing the stories nobody is forcing you to buy the books. For others, that love the setting, its a way to continue to be entertained. Nothing wrong with that.
-
Would Wheel of Time be accepted by readers if it was written by authors other than Jordan or Sanderson? What would happen if, after AMoL, the market was flooded with WOT novels by many different authors? Wouldn't the new novels, if written poorly, ruin the original series, by discouraging new readers from reading them? What if, after 10-20 years after AMoL, Brandon Sanderson were to return to WOT.
Imagine the fanfare. Imagine the excitement. Brandon Sanderson, NY Times bestseller, returns to WOT. Uses RJ's "Lost Notes" to finish the WOT prequel. Wouldn't that be the best way to reinvigorate an old series? From there other authors could explore the world creating there own new characters and storylines.
I'm not against others writing in the WOT universe. I do believe though that RJ's characters should only be written by Brandon Sanderson, and that Tor should wait a decade or two before starting to writing them.
-
I guess if Sanderson's original fans don't mind him doing more RJ work then his own. I really don't want too many authors on this. Star Wars is different, it's more expansive then WoT. From Jordancon we heard that Harriet is going to write the final Encyclopedia for WoT. I suppose they will find some way to get Brandon to write more WoT books.
-
Did everyone read Brandon's response to the question?
I think the concept of anyone else working on the Wheel of Time was very painful for Robert Jordan. But in the last months before his death, he became determined–even insistent–that the series be completed after he passed away–and that means the part of the story that he had outlined to appear in the final book, now split into three due to length. He also previously had ideas for two more prequels and the outrigger novels set after the series’ end, but those were not a priority in his last few months. At this point we’re not sure Robert Jordan would have wanted those books to be written in his absence, and no one involved in finishing the series now feels the same urgency about them. I know that a lot of fans want to see those books eventually, but I ask that you please respect Harriet’s ability to decide their fate. If Harriet feels that he would not have wanted them done or that there aren’t enough notes or materials to complete the books in a way that would have made him proud, then the books should not be written. As for other books in the Wheel of Time universe that Robert Jordan did not have any plans to write or to arrange to be written, that’s not something I contemplate. When an author creates a world so rich that readers want an unending supply of books set in that world, that’s just a testament to the author’s skill as a storyteller–it doesn’t mean that having people write an unending supply of books in that world is a good idea. Stories have beginnings, middles, and endings for a reason, and ignoring that is detrimental to the integrity of the story. Robert Jordan had a vision for the Wheel of Time, and it’s important to be faithful to that vision. We’d rather leave his legacy as it stands than have bad books attached to his name.
Also at JordanCon at a panel Brandon said, "There's not going to be a Lews Therin book. There's not going to be an Artur Hawkwing book." Plus some other stuff along those lines but I don't remember exactly. Harriet was right there on the panel so I think he spoke for her as well where that was concerned.
-
The real problem with this, that I can see is, is Sturgeon's law.
Sorry folks. Most fiction written in somebody else's universe is crap, just like most things written. Frankly, it's worse than that. The really good authors don't have to borrow, or they can do it more subtly, and so most things written in a pre-existing universe tend to self-select towards the poorer end of writing.
The current case is completely different. Brandon is an established writer with his own worlds. He came in only to fill in after Author Existence Failure. Whole different ball game.
-
Author Existence Failure.
Tvtropes is awesome!
...sorry, just caught the refrence.
I doubt that any author would find it easy to add additional stories that RJ did not plan out. If they tried, the best they'd be able to do is a Tolkien jr.-esk stuffy work of attempted note-patchwork. Some things make good background in-story, but wouldn't work out too well as an actual novel.
-
Why can't WoT be another gamesworkshop/warhammer world? as long as Harriet approves of everthing written?
it really depends on the ending of the last book imho...
-
Because if it becomes such it has just become, quite litterally, a pimped out name i don't remember the last time a read a dragonlance, warhammer, d&d book worth re-reading... not to mention the original idea is always the best
-
Yeah there is such a thing as too many people in the pool. I trust Brandon to do a good job but he's not going to want to write WoT forever especially when he has his own ideas he's been shelving. There is a point where the story should be left alone. I think Star Wars EU has past that point as there are developments I really don't like now.
With some of these Game universes the books get really really bad. Especially Magic the Gathering books, it was just really bad.
-
... not to mention the original idea is always the best
Some (I would say most) of the best Star Wars stories have been without George Lucas' involvement. I'm not comparing RJ to Lucas by any means, but a blanket statement that no one else could right interesting, quality, stories in this world probably isn't true.
-
Star Wars is never a good comparison. It's comparing apples and oranges, because the original work is the moves. The books were not written by Lucas, they were ghost written by different authors and adapted from the movies. That never results in a good outcome.
Trek is a slightly different issue, because the original Trek was written by James Blish a SciFi writer with some street cred. He wrote the scripts as script supervisor, and wrote the stories for each episode as a short story. The stories including the episodes that never got filmed from season three were bound together as an anthology to prove it. So there is some form of textual fiction that is contemporaneous with the scripts, some original in a sense that Star Wars never had.
A better comparison would be the hack work that has been made of Three Musketeers, since Dumas died. Noone else has ever done a decent job with Dumas' fictional France or Court of Versailles. Maybe the movie in the mid 90's? But that is a different medium. No other books have done as well with either Musketeers or Man in the Iron Mask. Same issue that was mentioned earlier. A good writer would want to build his own world and characters.
-
I liked the first books of the Star Wars that came out that were written by Timothy Zahn. However at the current state of the EU I'm not sure I like what the writers have done with it.
The problem with the Star Trek books is that they contradict not only each other but the show as well. Plus each show was a different cast of characters and sometimes different part of the universe but the same kind of universe. Though ad Jordancon Brandon did seem insistent that there would not be a Lews Therin book that there wouldn't be a Artur Hawking book either. At least not from him anyways.
-
D.C. Fontana was the script editor for the original Star Trek. Not James Blish, who was in the UK. Blish wrote his novelizations based on scripts written by other people which he had nothing to do with before or during filming. And they don't include unfilmed scripts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_(Blish)
The original Star Wars novelization was ghostwritten by Alan Dean Foster, a science fiction writer with some street cred.
-
Ookla baby, I know you love wiki, but I owned a copy of the book, had it in my hot little hand and it did have the unfilmed episodes from the last half of season three. The forward explained why they were there etc. :)
Now it's possible that Blish and his editor were able to say what they did without facts to back it, but I'm thinking the Rodenbury estate would have buried them in lawsuits if they did.
Foster has street cred, and he wrote the novelizations, and her wrote Splinter of the Mind's Eye as well. But that doesn't change the fact that Star Wars was completely Lucas' baby and he intended it from day one as a film project with heavy commercialization. Even gave up royalties in exchange for funding and exclusive ownership over merchandising. ;)
But in either case, the comparison is inadequate because the original work is not a novel or series of novels.
-
It's a viable comparison IMO because it shows that it doesn't have to be the original author, no matter who that is or the original source of how the material was presented, that others can and do author quality content.
Of course, thats just my humble opinion.
-
This doesn't change the fact that the only WoT books that aren't in fact written by Mr. Rigney are the 3 AMoL books... this is to great a series to be diminished and to, as i said earlier in this thread, "pimp" out the name
-
Finally, Michael A. Stackpole once commented on whether or not the world of the Wheel of Time should be expanded by having other writers writing the stories of, let’s say, Artur Hawkwing’s rise to power or how the Seanchan tamed Seanchan, and so letting Robert Jordan’s world expand and grow – good idea or bad idea?
Does anyone know where Stackpole said this?
I'm almost certain he said this on the Dragonpage Cover-to-Cover podcast. They've had discussions in the past about the pros and cons of franchising, fan-fiction and "zombies" (series which continue to live on after the author's death).
It's a good podcast (though I'm slowly tiring of M&M's harping on "new media" publishing, I like it better when they spend time talking about craft and new books and interviewing authors). In fact, it's where I discovered Brandon Sanderson, when he was promoting Mistborn as a guest on the show. Also how I discovered John Scalzi, Jay Lake and T.A. Pratt.
So...you like it? I think it's a horrible podcast. There's about thirty minutes of mindless gibberish followed by two five minute interviews. I don't know...low quality IMO :-\
-
Renoard...there were 12 books, not one book, later collected into three books (their contents can be found in the Amazon description and reviews (http://www.amazon.com/dp/0553291408/"). My sister had the 12 books. There were several unproduced scripts (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Undeveloped_Star_Trek_episodes#The_Original_Series"), but I just can't find any information that the Blish books had anything from them in them. And since you don't have the books anymore either, it's impossible to verify.
My sister also had the Star Trek Log books written by Alan Dean Foster as adaptations of the animated series.
But I do agree that both Star Trek and Star Wars are not a good point of comparison to the Wheel of Time.
-
I do know that Blish wrote his own Harry Mudd story which was published along with the two episodes. I'm not aware of any un-filmed scripts that he worked with.
-
Well, no longer having the book (published some time in the late 70's) I'll not press it. :)
-
I disagree, Kaz. It's one thing to finish a series that is mostly written, but it's quite different to make spinoffs the author never intended.
-
That was the point i was making... AMoL should be written other prequels/ sequels would be "pimping" out the series
-
Oh, sorry Kaz. I thought you were on the other side. I'll tell you what I would like; I would like some appendices that explain certain things, a la Lord of the Rings. I would also be OK with the other 2 prequals if they were written by Brandon. I wouldn't want to mush it up any more than that. They are filler books, so they certainly don't need the scope of the main series. It would be nice to see Tam's story.
-
There is a all encompassing Encyclopedia coming after the last book is finally published so there is that to look forward to. Everything else at the moment is a "wait and see".
-
Let Harriet decide. But, if it was up to me, no.
-
As of JordanCon, Harriet seemed to be thinking favorably about the idea of doing the 'outrigger' books, but for now the focus is on finishing the main series, and outrigger arrangements seem to be on hold until the rest is done. Also, as mentioned in an earlier post here, we were told 'no Age of Legends stories, no Artur Hawkwing stories.' You can catch a low-res video of the panel where these and similar things were discussed, here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9nAa9qm3NI&feature=channel).