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Local Authors => Brandon Sanderson => Topic started by: Werthead on March 26, 2009, 02:34:20 AM

Title: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Werthead on March 26, 2009, 02:34:20 AM
A Memory of Light has been split 'maybe' into three books (i.e. it will be split in three but Tor are trying to appease the fanbase by saying it could still be two), the first of which will be called The Gathering Storm and released in November 2009. And yes, you'll have to wait 12 months for the next one. And 12 months for the one after. Although Sanderson expects to have the whole thing finished by the end of the year at the latest.

(http://www.abc.nl/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/the_gathering_1-197x300.jpg)

In addition, that is really quite a hideous cover. It's even worse than Knife of Dreams. Rand breakdancing in front of a haunted house? Okay...

From the site that broke the news: (http://www.abc.nl/blog/index.php/book-news/new-robert-jordan-book-to-be-split-into-smaller-volumes/)

Quote
We’ve just had news from the publisher of Robert Jordan’s Wheel of Time series that the last installment will be split into two or possibly three parts. Tentative plans are to publish book 12 in November this year, with two more volumes following in 2010 and 2011.

Robert Jordan passed away in September 2007 while he was still writing what was planned to be the last installment in the series. It was announced that Brandon Sanderson would take up Jordan’s pen and complete the last book, to be entitled A Memory of Light. A publication date of November 2009 was scheduled.

Wheel of Time fans have been eagerly anticipating the last book and the series and will be pelased to learn that they will still get a new book, as promised, in 2009 - The Gathering Storm will be published this coming November in a large format paperback. (I.e., lots cheaper than a hardcover!) The price is currently EUR 21.99, though this may change (we’re trying to make it cheaper, obviously!)

So no hardcover release either. Apparently.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Miyabi on March 26, 2009, 02:39:44 AM
*decided it's time to get off my butt and go buy Eye of The World*
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: douglas on March 26, 2009, 04:23:55 AM
If this gets confirmed, I expect Tor will be getting quite a few angry emails from fans upset over the artificial delay of the second and third portions.  One of them might be from me.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Bookstore Guy on March 26, 2009, 04:52:31 AM
the trade paperback will only relate to an additional release in the UK. they always release a trade paperback with the hardback for big releases - not to mention that 21.99 for a trade size is an insane price. most trade sizes go for 12.99 - 15.99 EUR.

there WILL be a hardback release.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Miyabi on March 26, 2009, 05:44:59 AM
Well here was some good news (http://brandonsanderson.com/blog/770/Whats-Up-with-AMoL) for all of you opposed to the splitting decision.  Brandon will push for quick release and for an omnibus.

Quote from: EUOL
If it is split into chunks, I will push Tor to release them as soon as is reasonably possible and I will push hard for an omnibus edition at the end.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: JCHancey on March 26, 2009, 06:22:38 AM
What can I say? I almost cried when I saw the cover and almost died when I saw three books!!!!!!!!! This is utterly ridiculous! I cannot believe they are even considering splitting it into three. Gah. Tor will be getting angry emails and whatnot. *general hatred towards this news*
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Hero of Ages on March 26, 2009, 07:10:40 AM
I have a feeling that this is mostly a hoax.  Brandon has been as upfront about AMOL as he feels he can, and he has only talked about the book POSSIBLY being split into 2 books.  I wouldn't worry too much about it until TOR makes an "official" announcement.  Also there is absolutely NO way that they won't release this as a Hard Back book first.  I think that just about every volume so far has had a HB release this will be no exception.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: ryos on March 26, 2009, 07:17:43 AM
As long as each volume has a real ending, I'm cool with whatever. It's been so long since I read a WoT book (I stopped at eight) that I would have to reread them all anyway, and that will take time.

It makes good business sense for them to spread out the releases, after a fashion. Since any WoT is practically guaranteed to be a big seller, they'll want to spread those revenues out over multiple fiscal years if they can. Also, two volumes pretty much means twice the money in this case. I'll be shocked if they don't split it at least in two, but three doesn't sound outlandish. That would put each volume at around the size of a Mistborn book.

An omnibus edition also makes great business sense - even more money!

Sometimes, artificial book splitting feels sleazy and cheap. It seems to be all the rage at Deseret Book and its imprints; they use wide line spacing, margins, and large type to inflate the physical size of books. They even sometimes insert extra blank pages between chapters for no apparent reason. Then, they partition series into almost arbitrary chunks that end abruptly. For example. the Leven Thumps series has enough story for a trilogy, and will clock in a five books by the time it's through. The only book in the series with an actual ending was the first.

However, in this case it pays to remember how very much book we're talking about. Just imagine Mistborn all crammed into one monster volume. I hear the publishing industry is tough these days, and I'm willing to let them milk their cash cow as long as they're not too blatant about it.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Miyabi on March 26, 2009, 07:24:06 AM
This is slightly off topic, but:

Ryos:  If you look at history industries such as fiction novel publishing, tabloids, and things like video games in more recent history, do just as well if not better in economic slumps due to the fact that people want some sort of escape from their day to day lives.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on March 26, 2009, 07:47:56 AM
I think most people who have been paying attention have accepted the two volume thing by now, but three would make just about everyone go "huh?"

Even if this turns out to be legit in every detail, it will still surprise me if it does end up being three books rather than two. If, for example, they take the old theoretical first half and split it according to viewpoint characters, that is going to majorly tick everyone off.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Alatar on March 26, 2009, 08:45:05 AM
Well, as you know, I have some "experience"  :'( with splitting books.
Generally speaking, when you split a book that's because
a) It is large enough.
b) You want to win more money with it.

History concerns, viewpoints, climax and endings is no concern for the guys who decide to split the books. So, as Ryos said, the endings will be blunt. they would probably end when there is a big viewpoint and story jump (there should still be some stories going on separately unti they gather in TG).
Of course, with BS and Harriet pressing to keep it as whole as it can, maybe they try to fins some way to split it coherently. We may have some hope.

Anyway, this seems to me as a premeditate "leakage", something to test the level of rejection people have towards the splitting. I believe they will do it anyway, but maybe if there are riots and a worlwide general strike, they decide to release them every 6 months instead of 12.......... yes, that's irony, I think they will go ahead with this and to hell with everything else.
I just hope protests make them reconsider the price. As I convinced my wife to stop buying the translated books, we bought all 3-11 books in English paperback, and they went for around 10-12 $, I don't remember exactly. Now, one paperback book would be 66 $...... no good, not really good.  :-\
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: douglas on March 26, 2009, 01:02:17 PM
I'm assuming this is not official and quite possibly wrong in every last detail until and unless it gets confirmed directly by Tor, Brandon, or Harriet.  If it does get confirmed I'll be sending off an angry email, but I doubt it will.

I've been expecting a split into two books for a while now, and I'll happily pay normal hardcover price for each of them.  Three seems a bit much, but would just annoy me a little.  Delaying release of the second and (possibly) third chunks when they're already finished, though, that would be inexcusable.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on March 26, 2009, 02:01:53 PM
Only about half the book is finished at this time, unless you mean they'll be well finished by Nov. 2010, which is probably true.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: kevinpii on March 26, 2009, 02:24:10 PM
I don't know about anyone else but that cover looks a little suspect to me. The quality is really bad, it says on it, its a sequel to crossroads of twilight, and correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Rand only lose part of his hand and not the whole thing. As far as it being split into three parts I wouldn't be real happy about it but I'm sure I would deal, i mean I have waited this long I'm sure I could wait a little longer. This whole thing just seems a little bit hokey to me.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Shard on March 26, 2009, 02:55:20 PM
Darryl Sweet gave us another horrible cover, what else is new? I figure by this point making fun of the covers has become a tradition and pastime in the Wot Fandom. It certainly hasn't stopped us reading it and hasn't stopped others from starting it. Though looking at the cover I wonder if that image isn't some how spliced together peices.. though it really does look like his style.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: thall on March 26, 2009, 03:39:41 PM
I dont support the decision to have three (or even two) releases. This book is a legacy to Robert Jordan, not a way to may some cash off him. The should release it in one copy to make the fans happy. We've been loyal readers for 11 books .... Its what Robert most likely would have wanted.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Bookstore Guy on March 26, 2009, 03:54:55 PM
ryos has the right of it, and miyabi has a good point as well. they will split it in a way to get a ton of money. two is pretty obvious. three will make people angry, but not angry enough to cause any significant loss in monetary value. personally, i think splitting it in 3 would be crappy towards the readers.

lets analyze the post:
1) Cover Art: Could be a mock-up. After all, WoT covers historically are terribad, and this totally fits that mold.
2) Wording: Doubtful that it is true. The sequel to Crossroads? Nope. Brandon's name as big as Jordans? Sorry, I doubt that (but hey, good for Brandon if it goes that way!)
3) Released in November with subsequent parts (more on that later) the following November(s): This is prolly a fact. November will gross the most cash for Tor.
4) Trade only release?: Utter horse-crap. Won't happen. Period. There will be a hardback release which will sell for $30. The idea of a trade costing $22 EUR is way out there. I mean, you do realize that Hardbacks of this big time novels go for $20 EUR right? I wouldnt be surprised at a trade release in the UK, but like I said before, it will be 13-15 EUR not an idiotic 22, and it will be in addition to a Hardback
5)Number of Volumes: 2? Guaranteed. 3? could happen. just think about it. the book is gonna be 750K words long. that is HUGE. Even in 2, that's 375K each, which is huge. you split in 3, that gives you 250K each. still a large novel, but way more manageable. who know? you might not support it being released in two books (or three) but it will happen, and it would have happened regardless. Sure, Tor wants to make fans happy. Guess what? They are by simply having the book finished. But don't fool yourself into thinking that Tor doesn't want to make a killing off the novel as well. A single volume on first release would be an idiotic decision on Tor's part.

Now, WoT readers can all complain about the split and the release time, but consider this: KoD was released in 2005. Jordan was following the 3 year plan before he passed. AMoL is really 3 books worth of book, so really, it could have taken 9 years to put it out. would you rather the full 750K be released over the next 2 years or over the next 6-9? For goodness sakes, think about how much work is being put into this novel so it can even BE released. Not to mention, Brandon is finishing AMoL, another Alcatraz book, and the first book of Way of Kings (so he has something coming out next year only under his name). He's doing all of that and STILL writing AMoL at an absurdly fast pace?

Yeah, I'll take it how it comes, thank you...
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Alatar on March 26, 2009, 04:36:21 PM
Yes, I agree it is likely to be a 3 volume release, most probably in 3 years.
Just making notice to those of you who still hope, no, they won't likely be 3 books like the rest of the series, but parts of one work, which means no real ending climax (just minor ones), and not real endings for the first 2 books.
Also, the 22 data (21.95 to be exact) is dollars, so it is around the 15 euros mark UtbaIBG states (depends on change when books release).
And, one little thing. BS hasn't finished writing. He is guessing 700k words, but they could be 600k or 800k, so in one situation it would make sense to have 2 books and the other would be better 3.
I just can suppose they are talking about 3 to get fans used to the idea. You know, it was stated it would be 1 book, then they started to say 2 volumes, and people now are used to the idea to the point of mostly accepting it. So, maybe they want us to get used to the 3 books - 3 years release idea. Who knows?
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on March 26, 2009, 09:49:37 PM
Brandon is far enough along by now that he knows it's not gonna be 600k. The way the estimate has kept going up, I am guessing that when it's all done it will be north of 800k.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Miyabi on March 26, 2009, 09:55:01 PM
Brandon is far enough along by now that he knows it's not gonna be 600k. The way the estimate has kept going up, I am guessing that when it's all done it will be north of 800k.
That is an insane number for one book.  At that rate you would HAVE to split it.  I mean, it just isn't feasible to have a book that large in one volume.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: ulkesh on March 26, 2009, 10:18:08 PM
Ok there will be a hardcover. And Brandon just said the cover art is a placeholder. *phew*
There's still the Title: Personally I think it's a weak title, but the important stuff is the story after that title  ;D

BUT the WORST problem remains: C'mon, 3 books? Seriously? And ONE YEAR between them? That's just a slap in the face! I'm really upset about this.... and dissapointed.

I know you can't publish a novel with 800K words. But if you split them you get 400K and that's about the length of TSR or LoC. Also Brandon explained that two volumes would make sense, because the story is split in "Preparing for the last Battle" and then "Tarmon Gai’don" itself. And since it's considered as one book I hoped that the first Part would get published in November 2009 and the second one somewhere around February 2010.

3 Books in 3 Years just so smells like money-making and dishonering Robert Jordan's legacy.  >:(
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Comfortable Madness on March 26, 2009, 10:26:01 PM
This is very VERY dissapointing. 3 books in 3 years you have got to be kidding me. Before Robert Jordan passed away he was well aware how long AMoL was going to be. He was quoted as saying things such as getting the book into one volume "whether it is 1500 pages long, Tor has to invent a new binding system, or it comes with its own library cart".   I understand, maybe, that just maybe it isn't possible to to bind a book that large but there should be a whole lot of trying going into finding a way to do it. Even if they can't bind it to one spine they should sell the two or three books, or however many it takes, together as a box set. To keep them all released at one time! The year in between the releases is flat out outrageaous! RJ promised his fans numerous times that all would be settled in ONE final book. But alas, greed trumps all.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Bookstore Guy on March 26, 2009, 10:41:05 PM
Seriously? Publish the book in February? January and February are the worst months to have a book published.

Ookla is right, the book will be as long as it needs to be. The last time I chatted with Brandon, he was thinking 750K, but that it may easily go longer. For a moment, consider how much needs to be wrapped up. I would hesitate to get too angry over the way it will or won't get published. Remember, Harriet is making some of the calls here, so apparently she is OK with whatever is gonna happen. If she is OK with it, I'm pretty sure RJ would have been good with it too. If the book creeps higher than 800K, i have no doubt they will split it into 3. From a bookstore perspective, that would be the best.

People may as well stop thinking of it as 1 book being split. Try thinking of it as 2 or 3 books to end an epic series. Maybe then having 2 or 3 massive books released a year apart rather than 3 years apart will seem like the huge accomplishment that it is. As it is, I'm starting to lean towards not being sure who is being more greedy in this situation.

I would rather the book be written in its entirety and written right rather than rushing to get it all out right now and have it turn into a terrible work like the new Dune novels. There is also a lot more that goes into having a novel published than just, "lets just publish it all real quick."

The book isn't done yet. Brandon has finished the first 450K and is revising it LINE-BY-LINE. Then he still has to write AT LEAST 300-400K more. Good grief, the speed at which he is writing is astounding, and that isn't good enough?
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Silk on March 26, 2009, 10:48:18 PM
Sanderson's been saying 750k for a while now, he doesn't seem to have adjusted it upwards in quite some time.

The Tor folks seem to be gearing up for an official announcement early next week. I don't feel any particular need to get bent out of shape over things until there's something official. And probably not then either. ;)
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Spriggan on March 26, 2009, 10:49:49 PM
Also realize that binding a book that size would cost you, the reader ,several hundred dollars because it would be very expensive, and many people couldn't afford to buy it.  People also need to think of book sellers in this argument as well, they probably don't want to give the space to Tor for having all the books, if there is more then one, out at the same time or in a few months of each other-- not to mention how many people in todays economy would rush out to spend the money for those Hardbacks at the time they were released.  And if all did come out at once it would probably be 2-3 years until it was finished with all the editing, re-writing, invention of new binding system (and machines to do the binding) so the time frame would be the same but cost you more.

Reality sucks but greed wouldn't be the only reason for the book being split, Tor has to work in the environment that exists for selling books as well as the current economy and people buying habits and the cost of not doing so would appear to be greater then doing so.

I'd look at it this way, instead of getting 1 book in 2-3 years you're getting it in parts over those 2-3 years.

P.S. These opininions are my own, I have not talked to Brandon about this for quite some time and he can't tell me any more then what he tells you all.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Comfortable Madness on March 26, 2009, 10:53:54 PM
I don't care if the book is released in full in December 2010. What agravates me is the creator of the series promised his fans ONE more book. All the resolutions all wrapped up. One shot. The ending we have been waiting for in ONE EPIC NOVEL! But instead, for what seems like monetary reasons, they are going to string it out.


Quote
Also realize that binding a book that size you cost you the reader several hundred dollars because it would be very expensive, and many people couldn't afford to buy it.  People also need to think of book sellers in this argument as well, they probably don't want to give the space to Tor for having all the books, if there is more then one, out at the same time or in a few months of each other-- not to mention how many people in todays economy would rush out to spend the money for those Hardbacks at the time they were released.  And if all did come out at once it would probably be 2-3 years until it was finished with all the editing, re-writing, invention of new binding system (and machines to do the binding) so the time frame would be the same but cost you more.

Gah! Don't bring your logic in here! I'm heated about this! I will rant away....Seriously though, I wish for no more projected release dates. Gets my hopes up for nothing. Brandon should just continue on doing his thing and then slam a release date on me 1 month before it actually comes out. And yes I know that is very unrealistic.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Cynewulf on March 26, 2009, 10:54:58 PM
Quote
Seriously? Publish the book in February? January and February are the worst months to have a book published.

Ookla is right, the book will be as long as it needs to be. The last time I chatted with Brandon, he was thinking 750K, but that it may easily go longer. For a moment, consider how much needs to be wrapped up. I would hesitate to get too angry over the way it will or won't get published. Remember, Harriet is making some of the calls here, so apparently she is OK with whatever is gonna happen. If she is OK with it, I'm pretty sure RJ would have been good with it too. If the book creeps higher than 800K, i have no doubt they will split it into 3. From a bookstore perspective, that would be the best.

People may as well stop thinking of it as 1 book being split. Try thinking of it as 2 or 3 books to end an epic series. Maybe then having 2 or 3 massive books released a year apart rather than 3 years apart will seem like the huge accomplishment that it is. As it is, I'm starting to lean towards not being sure who is being more greedy in this situation.

I would rather the book be written in its entirety and written right rather than rushing to get it all out right now and have it turn into a terrible work like the new Dune novels. There is also a lot more that goes into having a novel published than just, "lets just publish it all real quick."

The book isn't done yet. Brandon has finished the first 450K and is revising it LINE-BY-LINE. Then he still has to write AT LEAST 300-400K more. Good grief, the speed at which he is writing is astounding, and that isn't good enough?

It is certainly good enough, and I am happy we could have such a competent and hardworking author finish The Wheel of Time. Add in the fact that he is a longtime fan, and no one can ask for more. The speed of his writing is not the issue here.

However, this talk of three books concerns me a great deal. Sanderson has never even entertained the idea, at least not in any place we common readers could see it. He has talked about the possibility of splitting the book in two, though, which is a notion any reasonable person can accept and appreciate. Three, on the other hand, seems to come out of the left field. That would make three very short books, given the context of this series, if not that of publishing in general. I for one will be more than pleased with two volumes of 400k+ books, much more so than three books in the 260k range.  If that entails a wait of half a year more than what the case would be with a hypothetical tri-split, then so be it.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Bookstore Guy on March 26, 2009, 10:56:51 PM
Exactly, Spriggan. There is a whole lot more to this than just "i can has all at once?" A book that large in all one volume would have been impossible to shelve in my book store. Just the cost of printing alone would be INSANE. The size of the book at 250-400K words will be $30 US anyway due to printing costs of such a large novel. A book 2 to 3 times the size would cost triple or more. Not to mention a book that large would have a shorter life-span. the binding would split and break due to the weight rending your investment worthless.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: melbatoast on March 26, 2009, 11:00:27 PM
I don't feel any particular need to get bent out of shape over things until there's something official. And probably not then either. ;)

Amen!
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Spriggan on March 26, 2009, 11:05:28 PM
Tripple Really?  I'd guess 5 time more ($150) because you have to invent new methods and machines (at least parts for exsiting ones) to do the binding.  I know everyone is complaining because of what Jordan had said but it was un-realistic in every way and no one is looking at the big picture.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Miyabi on March 26, 2009, 11:09:43 PM
This topic has degenerated to those of intelligence talking to those too angry to see past the ends of their noses.  No matter how much reason and logic you throw at them the wall at the end of their nose will block it from reaching them.

I don't see the problem with multiple books/volumes.  It needs to be done right one way or another and I don't think having to pay $150 per book would make people happy, but you know, I guess some people could care less how much money they spend so long as they get what they want.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Shard on March 26, 2009, 11:22:06 PM
I understand we will be getting a 2 book split at this point, the thing is I think Brandon has been writing with that in mind. I'm just worried with a three book split being sprung on Brandon may have to cause him to re-work things to give us proper beginings and endings for each of the three instead of two. I'm worried the quality may suffer for it, especially since he may have worked for a two book split in mind.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: maxonennis on March 26, 2009, 11:22:52 PM
Aside from the three years thing, I like the idea of three books. *ducks from the wrath of posters*
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Spriggan on March 26, 2009, 11:24:54 PM
@shard.

If there are 3 books it probably was decided long enough ago for him to change that, I'm sure after the announcement we'll hear more.  One thing about Brandon is he won't let the quality slide and from everything I've heard about Harriet she's the same, they'd push back the release date if they thought that was an issue.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Silk on March 26, 2009, 11:25:18 PM
I'd imagine that whatever decision Tor makes regarding the splitting of the books, they'll keep Sanderson well-informed, for the reasons that Shard mentioned.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Alatar on March 26, 2009, 11:26:11 PM
Spriggan, please, stop saying there are no binding machines for that...
The first copy I read of the LotR was a 1100 plus appendix pages, and I have seen books over 2000 pages. Yes, they are special editions, but they have been printed. And some of them are more than 30 years old. Oh, and the cost wasn't insane, but prices have gone up insanely since then, at least in here.

Anyway, I think the problem here is the concept. Let's face it, RJ said he would give one final book because it was his legacy and he didn't know if he could see it finished , which he finally won't :'(
Hadn't he got ill, he would probably have written 3 or even 4 books.
But, as it is now, to transmutate one compact story-book into 3, well, they may go for the "chapters 1-45", "46-87" and "88-end" which would be something dissapointing, or they could try to have BS rewrite the story so that he could give 2 minor book endings, but still good enough, and the final one which is written by now (I believe). That would be acceptable and even desirable. I have some and I tell you, you don't want to have 1500 pages hardbacks, they are so difficult to read. And no paperback would resist that amount of pages.

Also we have the title. It ringed some bells and I looked after it. Apart from Winston Churchill's book about WW2, it is also one book (I think about terrorism or something like that) released around 2006, so copyrights.....
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Hero of Ages on March 26, 2009, 11:28:28 PM
Do you really want this??
(http://www.plu.edu/~english/img/book-thick.jpg)

I didn't think so.  Yeah it is "possible" to make books like that but it really isn't cost effective (for both the publisher and the reader) or good on your back to lug that stupid thing around for the 1-6 weeks it will take to read it (granted some will read it in 4 hours and then start posting spoilers everywhere)!!
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Spriggan on March 26, 2009, 11:30:29 PM
Bad choice of words on my part, I know books can be that size I just kept bring up making new ones because people keep on using that Jordan quote about making new ones because they don't leave that out and imply they would actually expect Tor to do so.  But the books I've seen around that size have been over $100 every time so I'm not off on the price.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Miyabi on March 26, 2009, 11:31:05 PM
Spriggan, please, stop saying there are no binding machines for that...
The first copy I read of the LotR was a 1100 plus appendix pages, and I have seen books over 2000 pages. Yes, they are special editions, but they have been printed. And some of them are more than 30 years old. Oh, and the cost wasn't insane, but prices have gone up insanely since then, at least in here.
Yeah, but does TOR have those binding machines?  No!  And those machines are meant to make a small amount of a book.  Not millions of copies.  They simply couldn't handle the work load OR print fast enough for things to be reasonable.  Also most of those are probably bound in older methods that cost TONS more to do.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Alatar on March 26, 2009, 11:43:10 PM
In fact, they are meant to do some million copies, because, well, encyclopedias...............  ;)

That's not the point, I think everyone who is not agreeing to have the book split as a good idea haven't really tried to read one book that size........... :P
It can be done, and it can be done for maybe 80-100 U.S. dollars (we are speaking of around 90$ in 3 hardcovers, so price isn't really much different).
But, well, BS is reviewing the first 450k right now, so it will take him at last as much time to finish the other 350k-400k words. How much time could that be?
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: douglas on March 27, 2009, 12:10:33 AM
I don't really care how many separate physical objects it comes in (within reason, of course).  It's the possibility of delaying publication of parts of it longer than necessary that concerns me.  I realize it's not done yet, and even November this year might not be enough time to finish the whole thing.  My impression of the pacing on this is that November 2010, however, would be at least half a year later than necessary, probably more, and November 2011 is just ridiculous.

When it's done to both Brandon and Harriet's satisfaction, publish it.  All of it.  Immediately.  Most of the fan base interested in purchasing at all will buy all of it immediately no matter what part of the year it is.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Werthead on March 27, 2009, 12:33:52 AM
Updated news:

The cover is a very rough production mock-up that the people at Tor were playing around with. Harriet didn't sign off on it and neither she nor Brandon had seen it before the picture appeared. The current guess is that the picture was included in the press release by accident.

The Tor press release was supposed to be released next week supported with information from Brandon and Harriet that would have laid out the details of publication. From the sound of it an incomplete version of the release was fired off to a couple of Tor's partner stores in Europe, again in error.

Barnes & Noble  (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/The-Gathering-Storm/Robert-Jordan/e/9780765302304) is listing the book, so the title appears to be accurate at least*. The split into three volumes does not appear to have been confirmed yet, but it's definitely appears that it's going to be at least two. Amazon.ca confirms a hardcover and a leather-bound special edition for November 2009 and the mmpb for November 2010. This suggests that the trade paperback the original site was talking about is an international-only edition, or news that  trade paperback edition will be issued in the USA as well, the first time this has happened to WoT since I believe The Great Hunt back in late 1990.

* Although Amazon.ca were listing the title yesterday and just pulled it to replace it with 'Wheel of Time #12', so who knows?

My own speculation:

The page counts offered are in the 700 range, supporting a longer book (The Shadow Rising, at 390,000 words, was about 800 pages in hardcover). A 230,000 word-book would be shorter, around 500 pages in hardcover (like The Path of Daggers). That does at least suggest that if the book is going to three volumes, it will because Brandon goes over his estimate of 750,000 words by a lot, not because they want three smaller volumes.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Necroben on March 27, 2009, 01:18:57 AM
http://www.brandonsanderson.com/blog/771/More-news-on-AMoL

A few more days and some points will be moot.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Comfortable Madness on March 27, 2009, 01:29:03 AM
I don't see why everyone keeps bringing up the impossibility of one REALLY big book. That is entirely unecessary as I mentioned earlier. All you have to do is print the writings  into a couple(or however many it takes) of your "standard" size books and release them all at once. In a box set if you will. No new machines needed. The three year delay, for the ending, due strictly to book sizing is nonsense. If it takes Brandon, lets say, 5 years to finish it. I have no problem with that but don't tell me this isn't just a marketing gadget by Tor.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on March 27, 2009, 02:52:01 AM
I would rather have a satisfying story continuation this year than wait a lot longer for the whole thing to be done. If you want to wait 2–3 years before you buy the books and read the ending all at once, you're entirely welcome to do so. :)
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: douglas on March 27, 2009, 04:06:43 AM
Getting it in three parts at one year intervals starting this year is better than getting it all at once in three years, yes, but it seems like Brandon may be finished entirely within one year from now.

Delaying portions of it because it's not finished is annoying but perfectly understandable.  Delaying those same portions for purely marketing reasons would make me angry.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Publius on March 27, 2009, 12:26:36 PM
I don't believe it's going to be split into 3 books. I think that when Tor makes their announcement there going to say that the book will be split and will have a different name other than A Memory of Light.  That's it, maybe they'll give a release date for the other half of the book maybe not. 

Consider where all this information came from; a Swedish website, so I'm assuming it's a Swedish publisher too.  I researched how the Swedish economy has been doing recently and I found this article about 4-weeks old.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a3664322-04c5-11de-8166-000077b07658.html?nclick_check=1

Here's a little blurb in case you find economics boring.

Quote
“Today’s national accounts confirmed the Swedish economy is falling off a cliff,” said Nicola Mai, economist at JP Morgan, in a research note. “The report confirms Sweden is in the midst of a very deep recession.”

I don't live in Sweden so I don't know how accurate that article is, but I'll take it at face value and say their economy is struggling.

I think it's the Swedish publishers who are planning on a paperback release, and splitting the book in three.  If their economy is doing that bad then there may not be a market for an expensive hardcover fantasy novel.  That's why they want to make it as cheap as possible.

Overall, I think in the US we'll get the hardcover and the novel split once.  Also regarding the  artwork, I'm not sure if "The Gathering Storm" is going to be the title for the next book.  That could be a generic name used for a trial cover.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Loud_G on March 27, 2009, 02:55:41 PM
Do you really want this??
(http://www.plu.edu/~english/img/book-thick.jpg)

Actually... I TOTALLY want that :D

No kidding. It would be awesome :)

THough, I'm willing to have it split, I really hope to have the single volume one day :)
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Comfortable Madness on March 27, 2009, 03:24:15 PM
 ;D That would be awesome! Place it on a podium, opened half way, in front of a stained glass window, like some ancient tome. Very cool indeed....


douglas,
Quote
Getting it in three parts at one year intervals starting this year is better than getting it all at once in three years, yes, but it seems like Brandon may be finished entirely within one year from now.

Delaying portions of it because it's not finished is annoying but perfectly understandable.  Delaying those same portions for purely marketing reasons would make me angry.

Exactly.

Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Rrikor on March 27, 2009, 03:39:22 PM
My only issue with splitting the books would be the timeline between the releases.  If they release them together and just have the split to make production easier that is fine with me. However, when they are releases separately you have to add an ending to the first one in order to release the book.  When it was designed to be one story, how is that ending going to turn out.  It  also makes edits a little harder.  Maybe you are almost done with the second one but a section requires you to edit something in the first book you can no longer do that.  You are stuck with what has been written and that lowers your flexibility some.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: readerMom on March 27, 2009, 08:26:28 PM
I have a book that big, $2 at a garage sale.  It has aluminum rods through the binding to strengthen it and one is broken so we can't use the totally awesome unabridged dictionary.  I do not want something that big to read for real though, unless the lectern came with it. And maybe a nice chain to connect the two.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Alatar on March 27, 2009, 10:36:10 PM
I have a book that big, $2 at a garage sale.  It has aluminum rods through the binding to strengthen it and one is broken so we can't use the totally awesome unabridged dictionary.  I do not want something that big to read for real though, unless the lectern came with it. And maybe a nice chain to connect the two.

Buy the "A memory of light" collector's edition.
1800 pages, carved rustic hardcovers, oak lectern and silver chain, and your own monks garments and candles.
Cristal expositor and chorus incoming in the Deluxe Edition.
 :P  :D

EDIT: I just checked some of the books we have on the shelves right now (we can see it now we are moving and have packaged 42 boxes full of books). The count of Montecristo is around 1460 pages, 1st edition 2004 3rd edition 2006, in perfect shape (my wife is fan of Montecristo, I tell you it is not there for exposition). And Johnatan Strange and Mrs. Norrel (never read, I'm naming on memory alone) is about 900 pages but with thick paper, almost the size of Montecristo.
So, yeah, these kind of books are done, but, you know, I have 6 points worth stitches in my back and doctor said I shouldn't lift weights, so they will be staying there till they are packaged  ;D
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: jamhaw on March 28, 2009, 04:35:48 AM
A lot of people have been saying that the image is to small and that they have trouble seeing it http://www.abc.nl/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/the_gathering_12.jpg  here is a link which should take one to a very large version of the cover.  I have to say it appears rather unfinished especially Adviendha or whoever the woman is.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on March 28, 2009, 05:37:23 AM
Clearly a mockup using vector text on top of an extremely low-res preview image.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Casco on March 28, 2009, 10:00:45 AM
Yepp, that cover is false. Brandon did say so in his blogg.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Miyabi on March 28, 2009, 03:58:48 PM
Yepp, that cover is false. Brandon did say so in his blogg.
No he didn't.  He said neither he nor Harriet knew for sure.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Casco on March 28, 2009, 05:47:51 PM
Thats true, but he did say:
"This was before Harriet saw the link on Dragonmount itself, showing the thumbnail of the artwork. The fact that she hadn't yet seen the real cover art makes this all seem even more fishy to me. Looking closely, that posted art really lacks detail. After getting some internal emails from Tor, I'm really thinking that my conclusion last night was true. This is not the cover, but a rough mock-up done quickly by production to have something to show at meetings. It was never supposed to go outside of Tor, and is NOT the final cover, not even close to it. I'll bet this is just a sketch Mr. Sweet did showing potential cover ideas. It might not even be him doing the art--it's too small to tell."
For me that answer is pretty clear :) Or... Brandon CAN use "the game of houses" but i dont think so :D
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: melbatoast on March 28, 2009, 06:16:36 PM
Who cares, the covers are all pretty ugly anyway.  :)
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Madjius on March 29, 2009, 08:55:56 AM
A Memory of Light has been split 'maybe' into three books (i.e. it will be split in three but Tor are trying to appease the fanbase by saying it could still be two), the first of which will be called The Gathering Storm and released in November 2009. And yes, you'll have to wait 12 months for the next one. And 12 months for the one after. Although Sanderson expects to have the whole thing finished by the end of the year at the latest.

(http://www.abc.nl/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/the_gathering_1-197x300.jpg)

In addition, that is really quite a hideous cover. It's even worse than Knife of Dreams. Rand breakdancing in front of a haunted house? Okay...

From the site that broke the news: (http://www.abc.nl/blog/index.php/book-news/new-robert-jordan-book-to-be-split-into-smaller-volumes/)

Quote
We’ve just had news from the publisher of Robert Jordan’s Wheel of Time series that the last installment will be split into two or possibly three parts. Tentative plans are to publish book 12 in November this year, with two more volumes following in 2010 and 2011.

Robert Jordan passed away in September 2007 while he was still writing what was planned to be the last installment in the series. It was announced that Brandon Sanderson would take up Jordan’s pen and complete the last book, to be entitled A Memory of Light. A publication date of November 2009 was scheduled.

Wheel of Time fans have been eagerly anticipating the last book and the series and will be pelased to learn that they will still get a new book, as promised, in 2009 - The Gathering Storm will be published this coming November in a large format paperback. (I.e., lots cheaper than a hardcover!) The price is currently EUR 21.99, though this may change (we’re trying to make it cheaper, obviously!)

So no hardcover release either. Apparently.
Hi Brandon. Warthead
This one above me speaks the truth!
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: VegasDev on March 29, 2009, 09:45:26 AM
This cover rocks! I'll probably print it and tape it over the real cover after I edit myself into it, just like the rest of my book and video collections. Would anyone care to be the dwarf woman?
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: douglas on March 30, 2009, 03:54:17 PM
Aaaaaand confirmation (http://www.tor.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=blog&id=19734).  Complete confirmation of everything but the cover. >:(

This may take some time to figure out how to properly express my rage without resorting to death threats or otherwise getting dismissed for being too rabid and irrational.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: JCHancey on March 30, 2009, 03:58:46 PM
Now I have the right to be really pissed off. *sigh* 3 books!!!! Tor=fail atm.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Miyabi on March 30, 2009, 04:02:21 PM
I think it was an intelligent decision.  Maybe three is too many, but I'm not in the publishing industry so I can't say for sure.  I think though, that this will give Brandon A LOT more publicity and he will become more popular.  It will do well for his carrier I believe.  I think it will be nice to have it come out in multiple volumes and give time for reading and rereading before the next section comes out.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: douglas on March 30, 2009, 04:05:20 PM
Three books is fine.  Three books at one year intervals when they'll be ready long before that is not.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Miyabi on March 30, 2009, 04:14:40 PM
Douglas . . . did you not read the article?  All three will be out within a two year time frame.  Which gives you about 8 months between them, which I think is reasonable.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: douglas on March 30, 2009, 04:24:16 PM
Yes, I did read it.  Unless I am greatly mistaken, "released over a two-year period" means release dates of November 2009, November 2010, and November 2011.  This, when the speed of the progress bars seems to indicate that all three should be ready with time for editing probably by May 2010.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Shard on March 30, 2009, 04:28:50 PM
I wasn't sure the three year thing was confirmed or not. I suppose we have to take what we can get, not much we can do about it. Just trust in Brandon to get us a good three part story. :)
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Miyabi on March 30, 2009, 04:32:47 PM
Yes, I did read it.  Unless I am greatly mistaken, "released over a two-year period" means release dates of November 2009, November 2010, and November 2011.  This, when the speed of the progress bars seems to indicate that all three should be ready with time for editing probably by May 2010.
Apparently I forgot how to do math. O.o  Sorry.  My bad.  I guess I was thinking a within two years from now they will all be released. ha ha.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Vatdoro on March 30, 2009, 04:42:57 PM
I'm ecstatic about getting 3 more WoT books at 1 year intervals. I love reading WoT, so the more the merrier. :) One year between releases is WAY less then I've ever waited for other epic fantasy series. Heck, I won't even be done with my re-read of the first 11 books by November. I'm sure I'll buy The Gathering Storm when it comes out, but I may not get around to reading it until mid 2010.

I understand people were really excited for the series to be concluded and find out how it ends this year, but personally, I'd rather read a few more WoT books before finding out how it all ends. :)
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: douglas on March 30, 2009, 06:21:35 PM
And now we have Brandon's take on it (http://brandonsanderson.com/article/56/Splitting-AMOL).  Apparently the two year span is a somewhat conservative estimate, and Brandon's own estimate of completion time has gone up significantly.  Cancel the angry email, I'm still a little annoyed but it seems it's all for acceptable reasons.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: achren99 on March 30, 2009, 06:45:28 PM
We are very lucky to have Brandon writing these books.  It is great how much he cares about the story line and the series.  With all there is to finish, a normal-sized book could basically say, "And Rand won (or lost), the end."  I'm much happier that everything will be written out, as there are MANY story lines I've been waiting to see played out.  I am very excited for November!

(I've just realized I've come a long way, as I hate waiting for books and have complained about the length of WOT for a long time...but I've realized that I want the ending to be done right).

I also feel SO bad for Brandon working so many hours!  The worst part about these books taking so long for me is that he won't be able to publish his own series.  I need Way of Kings/Alcatraz!!  I know he'll still work on those, but it doesn't seem like he'll have much time.   80 hour weeks with a wife and baby...is tough, I'm sure.

Good luck Brandon (even though I seriously doubt you'll have time to read this)!  Thanks for your hard work and courage to risk people being mad at you to finish the book right!
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Pygmalion on March 30, 2009, 06:51:39 PM
I'm stoked and I have no complaints. People who are complaining need to lighten up a little...(not really here, just other places I've seen) I think I'm just as emotionally invested in these books as the average rabid fan, but I'd rather read a well-written finale to the series than a crash-course to the finish. I think people who are complaining now about waiting longer would complain even more loudly if the book was crappy.

Keep up the good work Brandon! We really appreciate all your hard work for us fans!! :)
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Shard on March 30, 2009, 07:29:18 PM
Wow 300k surprised me actually, I won't be shocked if it goes back down though. I think this will also apease those that didn't want TG to go the length of just one book, now it will be three. I have to say I'm even more impressed with Brandon after reading this, he really seems dedicated to this.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Bookstore Guy on March 30, 2009, 07:57:56 PM
this is where everything I have been saying in this thread is justified. like I said before, the last estimate I heard was "at least 750k" (that's what Brandon told me a while ago) - so, splitting it into 3 made a lot of sense from a business standpoint.

and you people didn't believe me when I said he was putting in crazy hours on this book.

so yeah, be happy. you are getting 3 FULL WoT books over the span of 2 years (2 and 1/2 if you count from now till the release of the first one).
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: SarahG on March 30, 2009, 08:15:57 PM
It seems to me that a lot of the fan anger is due to Robert Jordan's broken promise.  That promise has turned out to be essentially un-fulfillable, even (as Tom and Harriet have both said) if he had lived to attempt to fulfill it himself.

I remember when he first announced his illness, that at that time he basically promised his fans that he wouldn't die before finishing the writing he had planned.  His estimate at that time was that the stories he wanted to tell would take another 30 years, so he intended to live that long at the very least.

If he'd been able to keep this second promise, then he would be around to take the flak for the breaking of the first promise, which in my opinion would be right and fair.  Robert Jordan, not Tor or Harriet or Brandon Sanderson or the bookstores, deserves the blame for this situation.  But fans cannot admit that they are angry at their favorite author who's lost his courageous battle to a terrible disease.  So they transfer that anger to others, who didn't make the rash, stupid promise that is now being broken.

I always think it's a bad idea to make promises that are not in your power to keep - promises of outcomes over which the person making the promise has limited control.

I commend Tor, Harriet, and especially Sanderson for their excellent handling of this whole situation which, in my view, was not their fault in the first place.  It seems to me that they've made the best decisions they could with the cards they were dealt.  I'm confident that they'll continue to work towards getting the best book they can out, as quickly as is practical.  But I seriously hope that Sanderson especially will not sacrifice his marriage, his family life, his health and sanity, or his own writing in an effort to assuage the wrath of the Jordan fans.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: ryos on March 30, 2009, 09:37:50 PM
The Gathering Storm...OF FAN OUTRAGE!!! ;D

I'm really impressed with the pace of Brandon's writing here. I hope he eases off the accelerator a bit, even if it means further delays.

The ironic thing, for me at least, about this whole ordeal is that Brandon's hypothetical alternative - railroading the book from climax to climax and cutting minor characters and plotlines to get it done in 400K - actually sounds awesome. I stopped reading WoT after book eight in frustration over the endless dawdling with minor characters and plotlines. Based on Amazon reviews of those last few books, it seems I'm not alone.

What happened to RJ's promise that he wouldn't try and resolve everything? He may have changed his mind...or maybe, this 800K behemoth actually doesn't resolve everything. In which case, I further dread reading books 9, 10, and 11 in the series reread I'm planning to do.

In any case, kudos to Brandon, Harriet, Tor, and everyone involved for the handling of this work. :)

Edit: I should probably mention that the above is somewhat tongue-in-cheek. I don't actually think the rushed 400K scenario is what they should have done, given the circumstances...however, I do wish that RJ's legacy were such that it could have happened that way.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Casco on March 30, 2009, 09:42:31 PM
If you didnt read the book 9,10 and 11 i recomend it. The 11th book is one of the best in the series imo.
All the small plots will have its meaning..at least alot of them.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Rrikor on March 31, 2009, 04:20:08 PM
I finally got to read Brandon's response on the splitting of the books and I am glad to see there is a logical reason for splitting the book into 3 volumes.  I am glad that it is not just a marketing ploy and that the books are going to be thouroughly done.  I hope he still gets time to work on his other projects as well too.  I still have to pick up the Alcatraz books and read them.  The only part of the post that I didn't like is this.  
Quote
However, some of the important things you are waiting for had--by necessity--be reserved for the second book
I am guessing that this means I won't find out who killed Asmo in book on then.  I am glad he is taking the time to do the series right thought.  Railroading the series would have not felt right.  It would have completely broken the feeling of having RJs last book because the writing style would have had to differ so much.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Yuoaman on March 31, 2009, 05:22:15 PM
I can't wait to read the first volume, three volumes means more words for me to devour...
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Shard on March 31, 2009, 06:36:03 PM
I wouldn't say that is true Rrikor, we could still find out about Asmo's murderer since that's not going to be a End Game story thread. I mean it wasn't supposed to be a big mystery in the first place.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Renoard on April 01, 2009, 03:21:06 PM
Ugh. I didn't see this thread or the quotes till just now.

There are a lot of threads that need to be tied and I can see how a new writer would have themes that he feels bound to develop, I just hope we don't end up with a trio of rinky tink 200K YA novels.  That would derail the whole series. The only reason I see that as a threat is that last I heard the book was winding down toward appx. 700K hmmm 700/3=233pp....

Kind of a depressing thought.

Now if it grew because of the split say 350K+ per volume...
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Bookstore Guy on April 01, 2009, 03:41:06 PM
Ugh. I didn't see this thread or the quotes till just now.

There are a lot of threads that need to be tied and I can see how a new writer would have themes that he feels bound to develop, I just hope we don't end up with a trio of rinky tink 200K YA novels.  That would derail the whole series. The only reason I see that as a threat is that last I heard the book was winding down toward appx. 700K hmmm 700/3=233pp....

Kind of a depressing thought.

Now if it grew because of the split say 350K+ per volume...


Did you not read the article on Brandon's website? he stated that each book would more than likely end up in the 300K range. The estimate for the word count several months ago was 750K, so im not sure where your 700 number is coming from. He is now estimating it to be around 800-900K. And honestly, to say you think he might make them YA? Seriously? First of all, 200K isn't a YA length in the least. 200K is a good sized novel, and YA rarely crack 90K. Secondly, Brandon knows the difference between writing YA and writing Adult fantasy - do you really think he would mistake the WoT for YA? Come on now...
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Renoard on April 01, 2009, 04:06:45 PM
Not knowing him, I couldn't really know what to expect.  :P  And not being the fan type I don't actually check his site with any regularity. :-X  I read the estimates about 2 weeks ago and I read some blog entries.  I might have gotten the 750K from that.  But I'm encouraged to hear at least 300k although from the writer perspective, it seems that longer or shorter would be easier.

As for YA.  An awful lot of YA is close to 200k.  Case in point Green Riders call. I could go on but would be tedious.  90k sounds more like tweenie novels...

But I will take your encouragement and hope you are right.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: maxonennis on April 01, 2009, 04:23:15 PM
Not knowing him, I couldn't really know what to expect.  :P  And not being the fan type I don't actually check his site with any regularity. :-X  I read the estimates about 2 weeks ago and I read some blog entries.  I might have gotten the 750K from that.  But I'm encouraged to hear at least 300k although from the writer perspective, it seems that longer or shorter would be easier.

As for YA.  An awful lot of YA is close to 200k.  Case in point Green Riders call. I could go on but would be tedious.  90k sounds more like tweenie novels...

But I will take your encouragement and hope you are right.

You can't sell a YA novel at 200K. Most YA is between 50K and 100K.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Renoard on April 01, 2009, 04:35:21 PM
Okay, I admit I've never tried to sell one, so of course I'll defer to your wisdom on that.  I'll say instead that there are books that are written with a juvenile tone and a high-school reading level that I had assumed (giving publishers the benefit of the doubt) were intended as YA.  These tend to run about 200k.

I think that Books may have misinterpreted my expression of concern as an attack on EUOL, who he seems to have an emotional investment in defending.  That was certainly not my intention.  As a consumer and student I was genuinely concerned about constantly evolving format. 

It does seem the Writing Excuses Thread seems to be a lot more flame retardant.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Bookstore Guy on April 01, 2009, 05:48:46 PM
I hope you didn't think I was flaming you, that certainly wasnt the intention. I was just pointing out that 200k isn't YA in most cases. As I recall, middle-grade ends around 50K, and then YA goes until 75K generally. Certainly there are exceptions, but a huge portion of YA falls well under 100K.  I think you are confusing a perceived YA tone with an actual YA novel. The Green Rider series is adult fantasy, shelved in adult fantasy. The tone of it may not be a sophisticated as certain other novels, but it is adult fantasy nevertheless. It may be simple (much like Brooks and Eddings are very simple), but it is not YA. Not only that, but Green Rider's Call is closer to 150K (compare its size to Sanderson's Elantris which clocks in a 202K and is 200 pages thicker).

For actual YA, there is a section in the bookstores designated for it. Most of the stuff there isn't very thick at all.

But yeah, you shouldnt have any worries about the tone of the further WoT novels. If you have read the Mistborn series, then you know it's tone is undeniably adult, and he is putting crazy effort into WoT to make it the book Joradn would have wanted it to be.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Patriotic Kaz on April 01, 2009, 07:04:33 PM
Whoa whoa mistborn is a fabolous series but you can't really compare it with WoT as WoT is so large because of its complexity it makes understanding LoTR and Dune childs play...(those are great books too btw) and that includes Dune's political scene which went over my head once or twice and i had to reread a paragraph or two.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: jnktoburen on April 01, 2009, 07:05:27 PM
Lost in all the hub about length and timeliness is the fact that Brandon is not getting paid more for the extra work. He's doing it because the story needs it. Dude, you rock. I'm not sure how money works in these things, and I bet he gets a portion of sales, so 3 novels as opposed to 1 (especially #1 bestsellers which they are likely to be), should turn a sizeable profit.

Anyway, I'm glad that they have a plan, and we have at least a concept of what will occur. We should all thank Brandon for killing himself on this. At least he's not pulling a Pat Rothfuss (Who said -- my book isn't done. It will be done when I say it's done. Now kindly go sit on tacks. -- or something marginally less tactful.) Brandon actually seems to care about deadlines and other people's expectations. Kudos to him.

BTW... There's no way anyone should claim they didn't see this coming.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Patriotic Kaz on April 01, 2009, 07:17:22 PM
lol so true and heres my round of applause to Mr. Sanderson!!!!! ;D
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Bookstore Guy on April 01, 2009, 07:54:01 PM
Whoa whoa mistborn is a fabolous series but you can't really compare it with WoT as WoT is so large because of its complexity it makes understanding LoTR and Dune childs play...(those are great books too btw) and that includes Dune's political scene which went over my head once or twice and i had to reread a paragraph or two.

I respectfully disagree. WoT is large and long, yes, however I don't feel it is as complex as other series. I never said Mistborn was lesser/greater/equal to in complexity to WoT, I just said it has an adult tone to it, so people shouldn't worry about WoT. In my opinion, WoT had no learning curve - or it was such a ever-so-slight incline that it wasnt noticeable in the least. 
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Shard on April 01, 2009, 07:59:03 PM
What does word count have to do with story quality? Perfume is one of the shortest novel's I've read and it certainly is NOT a YA book nor a bad one for it's brevity.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Bookstore Guy on April 01, 2009, 08:13:51 PM
What does word count have to do with story quality? Perfume is one of the shortest novel's I've read and it certainly is NOT a YA book nor a bad one for it's brevity.

absolutely nothing. i've read long books that were fantastic (Erikson), and short that were great (Wells, Green). and its not like 150-200k is brief by any means. thats actually pretty long. most books average 100K. however, YA is typically shorter. it has nothing to do with quality, just length. but being short doesnt mean it will be a YA book - your example of Perfume is just one example.

on the subject of WoT, my personal feeling is that I  would rather have them "shorter". by shorter i mean 275-300K - Eye of the World size (it was 300K). There were many cases were I felt that length in the WoT didn't equate to quality.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Patriotic Kaz on April 01, 2009, 08:14:25 PM
Not as great in complexity? Come again? He may not have created a world in which you can fluently speak elvish like tolkein but the court intrigue ect. matches any other epic series i mean Aes Sedai are the equivilant of Bene Gesserit...
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: maxonennis on April 01, 2009, 08:27:49 PM
What does word count have to do with story quality? Perfume is one of the shortest novel's I've read and it certainly is NOT a YA book nor a bad one for it's brevity.

I completely agree. The Old Man and the Sea is my favorite novel of all time (it's actually a novella, but anyway). And in that compact little story, is more complexity than in the entire WoT series.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Bookstore Guy on April 01, 2009, 08:31:36 PM
I could care less about created languages. I'm just saying that the series isn't complex at all to me. To me, it's extremely straight-forward. To me, it's like reading a long version of Eddings. The political intrigues aren't all that amazing to me. The complexity of this series pales in comparison, once again in my opinion, to the likes of Martin, Erikson, and Bakker.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: stacer on April 01, 2009, 09:36:17 PM
I love how YA is suddenly "rinky dink" and less worthy than a book written for adults. And just so you know, 200,000 is about 2-3 YA novels.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Shard on April 01, 2009, 09:48:24 PM
I could care less about created languages. I'm just saying that the series isn't complex at all to me. To me, it's extremely straight-forward. To me, it's like reading a long version of Eddings. The political intrigues aren't all that amazing to me. The complexity of this series pales in comparison, once again in my opinion, to the likes of Martin, Erikson, and Bakker.

Long version of Eddings?!?! That's like saying Stephanie Myer is as good as Bram Stoker!
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Bookstore Guy on April 01, 2009, 10:07:59 PM
I love how YA is suddenly "rinky dink" and less worthy than a book written for adults. And just so you know, 200,000 is about 2-3 YA novels.

exactly. some YA kicks the ass of adult fiction.

I could care less about created languages. I'm just saying that the series isn't complex at all to me. To me, it's extremely straight-forward. To me, it's like reading a long version of Eddings. The political intrigues aren't all that amazing to me. The complexity of this series pales in comparison, once again in my opinion, to the likes of Martin, Erikson, and Bakker.

Long version of Eddings?!?! That's like saying Stephanie Myer is as good as Bram Stoker!


No, it's not (as she isn't even in the same ballpark as Stoker). Forgive me if I don't think that Jordan is the end-all/be-all of fantasy authors. Once again, this is my opinion after having been exposed to authors who's works I consider superior and much more enthralling. I loved Jordan just like I loved Eddings, but that was a long time ago. Now, I consider Jordan a more detailed and MUCH longer Eddings. It's not a put-down, just they way i view it. I respect them both for what they brought to the table, and have learned from both of them. But like I said, I personally don't think Jordan is the best, and I dont find his novels complex.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Shard on April 01, 2009, 11:03:13 PM
I didn't say Jordan was the end-all/be-all but he certainly doesn't go around giving his characters names like "Queen of the world" or "Man with two lives". Not once as Eddings ever managed to surprise or shock me with his plot, not once have I had to go to the internet to figure it's plot out like I have with Wheel of Time.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: apbadd on April 02, 2009, 04:45:58 AM
It is ok, everyone ahs their own likes.  I for one think Jordan is good as it gets.  I don't think his writing is superior to Martin or some other guy that is good but I do think that his story is the best.  And as his writing isn't bad in the least, he is my favorite story teller.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Comfortable Madness on April 02, 2009, 01:48:36 PM
It is ok, everyone ahs their own likes.  I for one think Jordan is good as it gets.  I don't think his writing is superior to Martin or some other guy that is good but I do think that his story is the best.  And as his writing isn't bad in the least, he is my favorite story teller.

You nailed it there. Throw a million names out there for who is the "best writer" and I couldn't care which really is the best. Robert Jordan is the best author, in my opinion, because he is the best story teller. I really could care less about form and procedure just give me a fantastic story. Which is exactly what Robert Jordan did. Of course there are plenty others that can spin quite a tale, Martin and Sanderson to name a few, but Robert Jordan is definately my favorite.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Shard on April 02, 2009, 01:52:01 PM
 I understand everyone is entitled to their opinion and certainly there are those I think that would like Martin, Sanderson, and Tolkein better then Jordan. But to say Jordan is the longer version of Eddings? That's just insulting.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Bookstore Guy on April 02, 2009, 03:54:46 PM
It's all a matter of personal taste. You say the reason you like Jordan is because you feel the plot is complex and it has caused you to go online to figure it all out. You also said that Eddings never managed to shock you with a plot twist, which is part of the reason you dont like him as much. I never said I didn't like either of them. When my kid starts getting into reading, the works of Eddings and Jordan will be on his father-imposed list of material. However, by your same argument, I can say I prefer other authors more than Jordan. Never once have I been surprised. I haven't felt the need to go online and figure out the plot, because it was too obvious to me.

Also, I think you are taking someone's opinion (mine) on an author's work (Jordan) too personally. I'm not insulting anyone. If you think Jordan is the best, great. I disagree. Just like I think Erikson is the best, many of you probably disagree (though I'd suggest you read the full series before judging). You might say he's overly complicated for your tastes, or like a longer more detailed version of some of Cook's stuff. It's not an insult, it's an opinion of personal taste.

Everyone thinks that SOMEONE is the best storyteller. They aren't right or wrong.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Shard on April 02, 2009, 05:37:41 PM
All I'm saying is that Jordan is better then Eddings, not that he's the best.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: maxonennis on April 02, 2009, 06:13:48 PM
I love how YA is suddenly "rinky dink" and less worthy than a book written for adults. And just so you know, 200,000 is about 2-3 YA novels.

My favorite book series of all time is a middle grade reader.

 :-[
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Renoard on April 02, 2009, 07:35:21 PM
It would seem I touched a nerve.  What I was getting at was a principle that I learned in undergrad.  I had a teacher that liked to say that a bad writer has trouble writing long and a good writer has difficulty writing short.

He was just describing the process of maturing as an author and story teller.  I have to admit there are some short and  simple novels I like.  I loved Zelazney's work.  But I do continue to believe that, most of the time, short novels fail to be good novels.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Patriotic Kaz on April 02, 2009, 07:43:48 PM
I hope that is not saying Rodger Zelazany is a poor arthur he won 6 freaking Hugo's and 3 bloody Nebula Awards...those aren't just given away (unless you are orson scott card in which you get one for no reason enders shadow was a better book and how the hell did enders game win anything?)
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Bookstore Guy on April 02, 2009, 07:53:20 PM
Yowzers! I can't agree with any portion of that. Plenty of bad authors go on and on and on. Plenty of good authors know how to keep it short. Of course, your definition of long vs. short is important to the discussion. I remember as a kid that I used to equate length to quality. That simply isn't the case. By that definition, no middle-grade or YA can be considered good. It also disqualifies most horror (including Lovecraft, Wilson, and the new-found Wells). It also limits severely the SF&F that can be considered good.

There are simply too many other qualifiers to decide whether a book is good or not. Word-count shouldn't be one of them. Jordan is good and all, but the pure word-count doesn't make him good (or bad depending on your view - equal opportunity and all that). If his story sucked, then all the words in the world wouldn't be able to help him.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Renoard on April 02, 2009, 08:04:40 PM
Wow I think that's the only time I've seen anyone interpret the phrase "I loved [X]" as a negative criticism...

Boggle!
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on April 02, 2009, 08:17:03 PM
Kaz, you're the first person I've heard say was surprised that Ender's Game won a Hugo. It won because it was an awesome book and the Hugo voters recognized that. Not that hard to figure out.

Also, some short books are extremely good. Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness and The Secret Sharer are both excellent and short.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Patriotic Kaz on April 02, 2009, 08:20:47 PM
It was a decent read to me it was like harry potter winning a hugo...(ender's shadow was SOOOO much better)

P.S. i didn't like the Once in Future King either and people rant at me when i say that too...
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on April 02, 2009, 08:28:00 PM
Ender's Shadow was written far, far later (and I don't think it was as good), and Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire won the Hugo in 2001. It was a good book too. :)
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Miyabi on April 02, 2009, 08:34:17 PM
Ender's Game was such an amazing book.  Way better than Ender's Shadow in my opinion, though I did like Ender's Shadow, but only because Bean was my favorite character. ha ha.

@topic - I'm glad that they turned Rand around for the official art.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Bookstore Guy on April 02, 2009, 08:51:23 PM
and Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire won the Hugo in 2001. It was a good book too. :)

that was the only good one.

Ender's Game was such an amazing book.  Way better than Ender's Shadow in my opinion, though I did like Ender's Shadow, but only because Bean was my favorite character. ha ha.

@topic - I'm glad that they turned Rand around for the official art.

I dunno, Rand getting all Saturday Night Fever might have been a good change...maybe a little funk music would lighten him up a little from the one-dimensional character he currently is.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Comfortable Madness on April 02, 2009, 08:57:47 PM
If by one-dimensional you mean awesome. Then yes. Rand completely lives in the dimension of awesome and going full on Travolta would go a long way to changing that.... : ;D
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Bookstore Guy on April 02, 2009, 09:12:29 PM
he's better than perrin, but his attitude is boring. Mat is the only one of the three that is awesome.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Pink Bunkadoo on April 02, 2009, 09:14:18 PM
Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire won the Hugo in 2001.

Why did I not know this?   :o
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Renoard on April 02, 2009, 09:16:42 PM
Well I sort of half agree with Books about where Rand was going by book 11.  Thing is he didn't start that way and I always felt he was getting that way the way real people tend to flatten out when they become obsessed or isolated.  Rand is both.  But rand was never really my favorite character.  I prefer and coincidentally identify with the large fellow with the dog attachment.

But Mat is quickly becomming the center of the story, if Books 10 and 11 are any indication.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Comfortable Madness on April 02, 2009, 09:30:00 PM
Oh,without a doubt Mat is my favorite character. I started off by not really liking him but he just gets more awesome as the books go on. Definately find myself, as I reread the books, impatiently waiting for Mat's point-of-view chapters.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Patriotic Kaz on April 02, 2009, 09:33:25 PM
Goblet of Fire and Deathly Hallows were the best of the series in my opinion but neither was good enough to get a Hugo in my book... back to the topic on hand though...

How the hell is Rand one dimensional i mean he was a simple shepperd who went all loony...and under the circumstances i would have done so far sooner...and Mat is only temporarily becoming the center just like how Perrin dominated Winter's Heart...the dragon is the key focus... i mean he is the champion of the light

*spoiler question has now been removed*
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Miyabi on April 02, 2009, 09:53:36 PM
You people need to take your spoilers elsewhere please.  Or at least LABEL THEM!  This topic is about it being split and the cover art.  GAH! 
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Rrikor on April 02, 2009, 10:02:58 PM
Did you pick up the first book yet miyabi?  Just don't read Joe C's thread.  I labeled my spoiler in here.  :D. 

On Topic:

As far as the multiple book thing goes Brandon now has the progress bar for revising The Gathering Storm at 100% so I guess he is done with that book and it will be released to the printers soon to get ready to release on November 9th.  I have to go preorder mine soon.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Bookstore Guy on April 02, 2009, 10:10:48 PM
i have been way non-spoiler. <points finger at the others>

really though, their stuff isn't much. i wouldn't worry about it. it's really no more than the generic responses to your questions on that other thread. and yeah, dont read JoeC's thread.

As far as the book 12, Brandon said he was finishing up with final edits. I'm gonna have to ask Brandon about his first signing for it.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Patriotic Kaz on April 02, 2009, 10:12:52 PM
Yeah i want a signed book too!!!
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Miyabi on April 02, 2009, 10:30:16 PM
Did you pick up the first book yet miyabi?  Just don't read Joe C's thread.  I labeled my spoiler in here.  :D. 

On Topic:

As far as the multiple book thing goes Brandon now has the progress bar for revising The Gathering Storm at 100% so I guess he is done with that book and it will be released to the printers soon to get ready to release on November 9th.  I have to go preorder mine soon.
Yeah, I have a topic in the books section (http://www.timewastersguide.com/forum/index.php?topic=6579.0) about my read-through.  I am currently on chapter 11. ha ha.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Shard on April 03, 2009, 01:33:07 AM
I hope your enjoying the book Miyabi :)

and I hope I didn't spoil anything for you.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: daschaich on April 03, 2009, 03:29:10 AM
Sorry to go off-topic, but I gotta show some love for Pat.

...

Anyway, I'm glad that they have a plan, and we have at least a concept of what will occur. We should all thank Brandon for killing himself on this. At least he's not pulling a Pat Rothfuss (Who said -- my book isn't done. It will be done when I say it's done. Now kindly go sit on tacks. -- or something marginally less tactful.) Brandon actually seems to care about deadlines and other people's expectations. Kudos to him.

...

I've always found Pat's comments on the delay of his next book to be (excessively) self-effacing and apologetic.  (For instance, here (http://www.patrickrothfuss.com/blog/2008/01/unhappy-announcement.html) and here (http://www.patrickrothfuss.com/blog/2009/02/concerning-release-of-book-two.html).)

So far as I've seen, Pat has always been open and honest about his plans and progress (if not in as much detail as Brandon).  He has my respect and full support.
Title: AMOL Split
Post by: pebbles1984 on April 03, 2009, 02:33:20 PM
Ok, I'm sure everyone is tired of hearing about AMOL and just want is released already, but this is my first post on the forums and I wanted to make a suggestion about the titles of the three AMOL books. I read Brandon's Blog post on his main website about the split, and then how he was told he could not title them all A Memory of Light with smaller Subtitles. I think this is not fair, since it's the title Robert Jordan wanted. However, I think at least one of the books should be titled AMOL. My preference would be the last one. It's kind of implied that the last battle will take place in the last book, so why name it Tarmon Gai'don? At the point just before the last battle is the most likely time for people to lose all hope, and these will seem like the darkest times. People will be remembering a time, not so long ago I think, when everything was much better and they were happier, so... I think the title would fit perfectly. I know my personal opinion doesn't count for much, but I just wanted to throw this out there, because I had several of my friends agree with me about it. so, Sanderson if you read this, just think about it.   :)
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Ogge on April 03, 2009, 02:47:11 PM
3 books sounds great I need more WoT!! :)
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Renoard on April 03, 2009, 03:32:42 PM
Rothfuss was a bit hard to get started for me.  The austere tone and the story within a story threw me.  As I pushed through though I have to say I was looking for more.  I think the story hooked me when he got to school.  That's a little late for a hook, but in retrospect I have to wonder if it wasn't that I'd just finished A Feast of Crows and still had The Book of the Fallen and Wheel of Time in the back of my mind.  It really wasn't a problem with The Name of the Wind as much as the don't drink orange juice after eating chocolate paradigm. ;P

I'm glad to see the cover art on the new WoT volumes is consistently good.  I know it's gotten slams but I think they are unwarranted.  And yeah if three volumes means more WoT. I'm up for that.

At what point does fan fiction become a publishable alternative look at the same mileu I wonder...?
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Shard on April 03, 2009, 03:46:26 PM
When the author has been dead for about 70-80 years I forget what the actual time limit is. There are sequels to Wizard of Oz being written now as an example. Some consider the Extended Universe of STar Wars books to be canon, even though none are written by George Lucas.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Renoard on April 03, 2009, 03:58:11 PM
If you are referring to when a non-renewed registration expires then I think that is 70 years after the demise of the last copyholder under the treaty.  But I was being half-way facetious.  There was an author who did books about Middle Earth in the 80's dunno how long Tolkien was deceased, but I know it was not 70 years, although he would have fallen under the old standard, so maybe you are right.  Maybe people's sensibilities won't accept any Wheel related works until Tor is defunct for 70 years. ;P

(PS didn't want to suggest the other more gruesome reality)

Title: Re: AMOL Split
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on April 03, 2009, 04:40:38 PM
This should be in Brandon's forum--the suggestions forum is for the entire TWG forum or TWG site.

Personally I like your suggestion but it depends on whether or not the first two books also say "book one/two of A Memory of Light" on the cover (like the mockup does). In that case it wouldn't make sense for the third book to be titled "A Memory of Light" and also say "book three of A Memory of Light."
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Bookstore Guy on April 03, 2009, 04:41:02 PM
im not a big fan of the WoT artist, Sweet. The covers are very meh to me, and it seems like all of the humans he paints look like monsters (which would be great for a horror novel...). he does, however,  have a good use of color which draws the eye.

i will say though, it is still better than the terrible US covers for the Erikson series (Malazan Book of the Fallen). aside from book 2 (which uses the UK cover), the US covers are soooo horrid. Lockwood made those covers like they were an afterthought, or something he just happened to have in his "paintings that suck but might serve purpose somewhere" pile. This is why I import all Erikson novels from the UK where the covers are amazing.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Patriotic Kaz on April 03, 2009, 04:44:42 PM
I'm sick of people who write on a series they have no business writing on...the only acceptable excuses to hijack someones work is with there express consent (or there spouses b/c they died with-out completing it) or previously working on it with the author (such as Frank Herberts's son)
Title: Re: AMOL Split
Post by: pebbles1984 on April 03, 2009, 05:42:23 PM
lol, I'm not sure how to get to his forum.. like I said, I'm kinda new on this website. And I'm glad other people agree with me too :) Good point about the book labels though. I was just thinking they would all say Wheel of Time, but I guess he is going to do these different .Oh, well =)
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: IngtarWhoStoleChristmas on April 03, 2009, 06:52:05 PM
When the author has been dead for about 70-80 years I forget what the actual time limit is. There are sequels to Wizard of Oz being written now as an example. Some consider the Extended Universe of STar Wars books to be canon, even though none are written by George Lucas.

WAY off topic, but all Star Wars books are required to be authorized by people at Lucasfilm. They do a pretty good job of keeping everything very consistent from book to book and avoid contradictions. There have a been a few (some that are freaking HUGE) but hey there are some in the movies. Remember how Leia remembers her mom yet her mom lived all of about 8 seconds after her birth :-) For that I say they would be above fan fic (much like what Brandon is doing now, but the 'creator' hasn't passed away.
Title: Re: AMOL Split
Post by: Miyabi on April 03, 2009, 07:11:38 PM
This thread should be locked, there is already one on this topic and another one on it that has already been locked.  Go here (http://www.timewastersguide.com/forum/index.php?topic=6578.0) for further discussion please.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Bookstore Guy on April 03, 2009, 07:50:12 PM
yeah, Star Wars is a different beast. it is Writing for Hire. the authors are hired to write a predetermined story arc that has been approved by satan Lucasfilm.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Miyabi on April 03, 2009, 08:00:46 PM
There is a topic for this argument (http://www.timewastersguide.com/forum/index.php?topic=5638.0).

@Bookstoreguy - I totally agree the artwork is kind of lame, but what can you do?  I think it is right that they kept the same artist all the way through, the art style changing half-way through the series would have been weird.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Bookstore Guy on April 03, 2009, 08:24:51 PM
oh, no doubt. it would have been awful to change artists in the series. this is part of what happened to Erikson. the thought on cover artists is to have 1 artist (good or bad) for an entire series. the next series than an author writes should have an entirely different artist.

however, it must be noted that due to Sweet being the artist for Jordan, having him as the artist for the likes of Farland and Modesitt have helped their sales. it was the buyers psychology of, "same artist, same theme! yay!"

but yeah, WoT covers are icky. except for books 1 and 3. those look like normal fantasy covers. book 11 is horrid. nothing says epic fantasy like a planning session - amirite?
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Renoard on April 03, 2009, 08:33:05 PM
I have to say I really hope they don't do the AMoL vols 1, 2 & 3.  If the books are finished enough to publish separately they deserve Names of their own.  AMoL sould be reserved for the last volume.  Of course the first volume books have to be at the printer already if they are planning on Oct or Nov releases.  It would be hard to distribute enough copys to stock the Borders and B&Ns in all the little towns that will be clamoring.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Miyabi on April 03, 2009, 08:38:41 PM
I have to say I really hope they don't do the AMoL vols 1, 2 & 3. 
It's already been confirmed that that's how they ARE going to do it.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Renoard on April 03, 2009, 08:48:20 PM
That's sad.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Patriotic Kaz on April 03, 2009, 08:58:06 PM
Yeah but those aren't the titles themselves they aren't bolded or anything the LARGE PRINT for the first one is Gathering Storm
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: IngtarWhoStoleChristmas on April 03, 2009, 09:05:59 PM
I understood orginally they would be

A Memory of Light: Gathering Clouds
A Memory of Light: Shifting Winds
A Memory of Light: Tarmon Gai'don

http://brandonsanderson.com/article/56/Splitting-AMOL

Now I understand that book stores didn't want the AMOL part in there so I'm guessing that each one will change somewhat with TG actually being AMOL.
Title: Re: AMOL Split
Post by: maxonennis on April 04, 2009, 04:35:49 AM
This thread should be locked, there is already one on this topic and another one on it that has already been locked.  Go here (http://www.timewastersguide.com/forum/index.php?topic=6578.0) for further discussion please.

There are already TWO threads.
Title: Re: AMOL Split
Post by: Spriggan on April 04, 2009, 05:08:34 AM
I agree, but I'll merge instead of lock.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: AGrey on April 05, 2009, 07:58:24 PM
As long as the stories get wrapped up, i don't care how many books or how long it takes.

I just wish it were split into two books instead of three.  Thirteen is a prominent number in the series, and it would have been fitting to get thirteen books.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Miyabi on April 05, 2009, 08:21:21 PM
Well if you count the prequel, then more than 1 book is too many.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: yakumo fujii on April 06, 2009, 03:34:12 AM
None of this bothers me except for the titles, they're just so generic.

I don't understand why they didn't use some of the more descriptive lines of the Karaetheon Cycle like so many of the other books.

Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Shard on April 06, 2009, 03:36:23 AM
Yeah it's so generic I just heard the title on an episode of Angel.

"A Gathering Storm, is it"?  I just shook my head sadly.
Title: Re: AMOL Split
Post by: jamhaw on April 06, 2009, 05:04:22 AM
I wish they didn't pick Gathering Storm however. Too bland. You would think they could come up with a better title.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Miyabi on April 06, 2009, 06:50:53 AM
It is a very common theme, but it seems to work for the concept that is being aimed for.

やくも、ふじいは日本人ですか。
(Is yakumo fujii japanese?)
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Rrikor on April 06, 2009, 03:11:59 PM
I thought Brandon said that it is not going to be AMoL vol 1, 2, 3 because the book stores said it would not work well with the computer systems and could cause confusion.  That is why we got a lime title for this book. It was suppose to be AMoL: Gathering Clouds but when they got rid of the AMoL part they made it The Gathering Storm.  That title just sounds so generic for me but it is done now.  The second  book will probably get a new name from what was originally chosen (Shifting Winds).  Brandon said he wanted to put a better title on it when it doesn't have the AMol part. .The last book will still be AMoL.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Miyabi on April 06, 2009, 03:37:10 PM
Rrikor - site your source please?

Everything I have read says that it will be

AMoL : The Gathering Storm
AMoL : Shifting Winds
AMoL : Tarmon Gai'Don
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: daschaich on April 06, 2009, 03:54:56 PM
Rrikor - site your source please?

Everything I have read says that it will be

AMoL : The Gathering Storm
AMoL : Shifting Winds
AMoL : Tarmon Gai'Don


From brandonsanderson.com (http://brandonsanderson.com/article/56/Splitting-AMOL):

Quote
...

Now, some words about titles. Where did THE GATHERING STORM come from? Well, in January where it was decided to split the book, I continued to advocate for something that would indicate that this was ONE book, split into three parts. (I still see it that way.) And so, I suggested that they all be named A MEMORY OF LIGHT with subtitles. I love the title A MEMORY OF LIGHT; I think it's poetic and appropriate. Plus, it was Mr. Jordan's title for the book. That alone is good enough reason to keep it.

And so, I suggested smaller, shorter, more generic sub-titles for each of the parts. With a long, evocative title like A MEMORY OF LIGHT as the supertitle, the subtitles needed to be shorter and more basic, as to not draw attention. The first of these was named GATHERING CLOUDS by Maria's suggestion. Book two would be SHIFTING WINDS, book three TARMON GAI'DON, all with the supertitle of A MEMORY OF LIGHT.

We proceeded with that as our plan for several months. And then, suddenly, Tom got word from marketing that the titles needed to change. The bookstores didn't like them. (You'll find that the bookstores control a lot in publishing. You'd be surprised at how often the decisions are made because of what they want.) In this case, the bookstores worried that having three books titled AMoL would be too confusing for the computer system and the people doing the reordering. They asked for the supertitle to be cut, leaving us with the title GATHERING CLOUDS.

I shot off an email to Harriet, explaining that I never intended that title to be the one that carried the book. It was too generic, too basic. She went to Tom with some suggestions for alternates, and THE GATHERING STORM was what they decided. This all happened in a matter of hours, most of it occurring before I got up in the morning. (I sent her an email at night, then by the time I rose, they'd made the decision out on the east coast.) Some materials had already gone out as GATHERING CLOUDS, and I wonder if THE GATHERING STORM was chosen because it was similar. I know it was the one out of those suggested by Harriet that Tom liked the most. It's somewhat standard, but also safe.

That title swap came at me rather fast. I plan to be ready for the next one, so hopefully we'll have the time to produce something a little more evocative. I don't mind THE GATHERING STORM, but I do realize that it is one of the more bland Wheel of Time titles. (My favorite title, by the way, is THE CROSSROADS OF TWILIGHT.)

...
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Miyabi on April 06, 2009, 04:13:52 PM
I totally missed that one paragraph. o.O
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Bookstore Guy on April 06, 2009, 05:18:53 PM
having all the titles with "A Memory of Light" in them would have sucked in a bookstore. intelligent bookstore people would have made it work, but lets face it, a majority of bookstore workers now days don't put out the effort to do a good job.

as for the title itself, it isn't any worse than some of the others, and it is very much a theme that has been pushed by characters in the novels.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Rrikor on April 06, 2009, 07:54:20 PM
Thanks for finding the quote for me daschaich.  I would have put it in this morning but I did not have time to go back through the blogs.  Now at least we should get a better name for the next book.   
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Shard on April 06, 2009, 09:58:43 PM
At least Gathering Storm is better then Gathering Clouds.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Rrikor on April 06, 2009, 11:22:50 PM
It is better then Gathering clouds but it seams so bland.   I have heard the phrase before and it is alreayd the title of a book by Winston Churchill.  Granted I don't exptect a war documentary by Winston Churchill to be confused with WoT.   
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Shard on April 06, 2009, 11:42:54 PM
Your right it is bland and over used, even in an episode of Angel the phrase was used. I'm just saying it could be worse, at least the title's only crime is being a bit boring. At least it's not painful *cough* Attack of the Clones *cough*
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: yakumo fujii on April 07, 2009, 04:54:43 AM
Your right it is bland and over used, even in an episode of Angel the phrase was used. I'm just saying it could be worse, at least the title's only crime is being a bit boring. At least it's not painful *cough* Attack of the Clones *cough*
It doesn't make business sense either, at least Lucas could trademark "Attack of the Clones", Tor can't trademark "The Gathering Storm", it's a common phrase that has been used as the title of numerous works before.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Renoard on April 07, 2009, 01:50:23 PM
Trademarking titles from merchandising has gotten out of hand.  The result is in my opinion beginning to eat into the fabric of poetic expression.  I see the need to prevent  pirate from stamping out unlicensed copies of books and paraphernalia, but I'd like to see criminal penalties for commercial plagiarism displace the use of trademarks in literature and entertainment.

I can see why "Wheel of Time" need to be a brand, but trademarking the words means that another author who has a completely different take on the term is prevented from doing much with it without awkward constructions.  It's an old argument though.

Upshot is that the names of the individual volumes don't really need to be all that unique as long as they are fitting.  And frankly, I believe most people are concerned more with the series title and volume number.  A gathering storm fits the tone of the other volumes.

The problem I might have with it is the issue of passivity.  Rigney's titles follow a pattern that describes the beginning, plateau, climax and if it had ended with AMOL falling off point.  The book titles help you know where you are in the concise novel The Wheel of TimeA Gathering Storm has less punch than Knife of Dreams where it should have had more and lead seamlessly into Tarmon Gaiden, a good title.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Rrikor on April 07, 2009, 02:33:47 PM
Trademarking has indeed become over abundant. As seen from apple suing anyone who use the letters P O D in any from.  Still with books you want to be careful not to duplicate titles.  Especially in the same genre.  If a person is unsure of an authors name and goes to the book store or library and looks up a title, there should not be 10 books to chose from.  This has stopped me from buying a book before because I had to go home to figure out who the author was so I bought the right book.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Bookstore Guy on April 07, 2009, 04:08:29 PM
The problem I might have with it is the issue of passivity.  Rigney's titles fallow a pattern that describes the beginning, plateau, climax and if it had ended with AMOL falling off point.  The book titles help you know where you are in the concise novel The Wheel of TimeA Gathering Storm has less punch than Knife of Dreams where it should have had more and lead seamlessly into Tarmon Gaiden, a good title.

I disagree completely. The Gathering Storm, imo,  is meant to signify the upcoming battle, and i think it sets the tone for the final 3 books better than The Knife of Dreams ever did. The Knife of Dreams is a neat title, but it is only mentioned in the little block of text before the start of the novel. It actually doesn't really do anything. Once again, remember that Nyneave has been talking about this approaching storm for several novels in between incessant braid-pulling. This is a fitting title that is not passive in the least - it's the foreboding that accompanies the doom you know is coming, and is precisely where the series is at now. It implies the final lead-in to the storm that is Tarmon Gai'Don. I think you are worrying about the wrong title. It is the second one that needs to be the perfect transition.

also the whole trademarking thing isn't a big deal. when you type in a title in a bookstore's system, you get so many books of the same title already. people choose similar titles all the time.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Renoard on April 07, 2009, 07:10:42 PM

 talking about This Approaching Storm ...

See now that should have been the title.  Maybe you should still be a book-store guy...
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Bookstore Guy on April 07, 2009, 07:28:33 PM

 talking about this approaching storm ...

See now that should have been the title.  Maybe you should still be a book-store guy...

dont i know it. if bookstores actually paid well i would be. i was supposed to be working corporate level in Borders, but they treated me poorly. at the very least i should be be in a publisher's marketing department.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Renoard on April 07, 2009, 07:55:43 PM
Maybe Baen needs someone...

Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Rrikor on April 07, 2009, 08:48:02 PM
... Once again, remember that Nyneave has been talking about this approaching storm for several novels in between incessant braid-pulling. ...

I think this is a good reason not to call it The Gathering Storm.  From her point of view the storm has been gathering for a long long time.  It is first referenced in book 2 from my recollection.  Why would the book 13 be the gathering storm then when we have seen the storm building for 11 books already. 
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Shard on April 07, 2009, 08:55:57 PM
Maybe Baen needs someone...

Who?
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Renoard on April 07, 2009, 09:13:15 PM
I was just picking a name out of a hat, Baen Books.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Bookstore Guy on April 07, 2009, 09:13:34 PM
... Once again, remember that Nyneave has been talking about this approaching storm for several novels in between incessant braid-pulling. ...

I think this is a good reason not to call it The Gathering Storm.  From her point of view the storm has been gathering for a long long time.  It is first referenced in book 2 from my recollection.  Why would the book 13 be the gathering storm then when we have seen the storm building for 11 books already. 

because everything is done slowly?

actually, following your line of thought, now is the best time to reinforce that the storm is indeed upon the world. it has been a slow gathering (a really slow gathering) over the course of the series, but now the time table has sped up. it's about everyone and everything recognizing that the storm is gathering/approaching at a fast pace.

like i said, this title is fine, it's the next one that is crucial.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Renoard on April 07, 2009, 09:28:37 PM
I still think your inadvertent suggestion of This Approaching Storm has a better ring, a more charged tone and fits far better in the succession.

I agree it would have been better if the knife of dreams theme had been integrated into more of the book and possibly previous volumes as well.  Why I feel it is charged is not that it is well used but because knife is not an overused term or item in SF&F.  It has more emotional tension than sword for that reason and Mat's obsession with short blades has made it an important theme in the series.

Of course the 20 copycat novels that come out in 2010, all using main characters who are knife wielders will blunt the impact... }-P
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Rrikor on April 07, 2009, 10:12:34 PM
And all the knives will be made of obsidian rather then metal. 
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: Bookstore Guy on April 07, 2009, 11:04:33 PM
i prefer my title too. everyone should. all the cool kids are. and they have knives.
Title: Re: Breaking news on A Memory of Light: three volumes (maybe) & cover art
Post by: yakumo fujii on April 11, 2009, 03:20:13 PM
The problem I might have with it is the issue of passivity.  Rigney's titles fallow a pattern that describes the beginning, plateau, climax and if it had ended with AMOL falling off point.  The book titles help you know where you are in the concise novel The Wheel of TimeA Gathering Storm has less punch than Knife of Dreams where it should have had more and lead seamlessly into Tarmon Gaiden, a good title.

I disagree completely. The Gathering Storm, imo,  is meant to signify the upcoming battle, and i think it sets the tone for the final 3 books better than The Knife of Dreams ever did. The Knife of Dreams is a neat title, but it is only mentioned in the little block of text before the start of the novel. It actually doesn't really do anything. Once again, remember that Nyneave has been talking about this approaching storm for several novels in between incessant braid-pulling. This is a fitting title that is not passive in the least - it's the foreboding that accompanies the doom you know is coming, and is precisely where the series is at now. It implies the final lead-in to the storm that is Tarmon Gai'Don. I think you are worrying about the wrong title. It is the second one that needs to be the perfect transition.


A Knife of Dreams represents a lot of different things though. It represents the Aiel belief that life is but a dream that one must wake from. It represents the Ayamar who are also descended from the original Aiel and took the belief  to the extreme committing mass suicide. It represents the fog of war that Mat uses to confuse the Seanchan. And it represents the fraying of reality as time wavers and the shades of the ghosts become ever more present as the Dark One comes closer and closer to breaking free.

I would have chosen the titles for these books from the lines of the Karaethon Cycle.

These would be great titles for the three books that are coming.

Dread Fires Born Again.
The Dark Hunt Rides / or Rent in Blood and Fire (from an Elaida foretelling)
The Pain of Salvation.

If it has to do with storms, "Storm clouds gather" and "Rider of the Storm" is in the prophecies. I like that last one, makes me think of the Doors.