Timewaster's Guide Archive
Local Authors => Brandon Sanderson => Topic started by: Andrew the Great on October 09, 2008, 01:14:49 AM
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In Brandon's latest blog post, he posted a picture of the 16 allomantic metals. However, on this list, aluminum and duralumin are the 15th and 16th metals.
Also, 13 and 14 are external metals, while aluminum and duralumin are internal.
And though it gets really blurry when you blow it up, the name for this category of metals is: Enhancement. At least that's what it looks like. Well actually, it looks like INHANCIMINT, but I figured that it was more likely that those Is are Es.
So, how does that modify our theories on what the 13th and 14th metals can do?
I think it might also say the names of the 13th and 14th in the margin, though I can't really tell. It might just say unknown for all I'm able to read. But it looks like one of them (13) starts with a C, so that would be an actual name. hmmmm
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I thought it was obvious. What metal can mutate you to control metals after digesting. Uranium ;D
If a radioactive spider can give powers why not a radioactive pebble.
But seriously if some one wants to spend the time trying to figure it out i did find this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_alloys
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It's Chromium and Nickel. BTW, to save the time in research, Chromium is a mutagen.
Kind of weird that he used real metals for all but two, Malatium and Atium.
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It's Chromium and Nickel. BTW, to save the time in research, Chromium is a mutagen.
Well that depends if it's chrom3 or chrom6
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It could be chromium and nichrome (a nickel/chromium alloy). Remember, the one must be an alloy of the other.
(Note: This is not a spoiler. I'm just reading the chart and Wikipedia.)
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That makes sense; I thought it looked a little long to be Nickel.
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It could be chromium and nichrome (a nickel/chromium alloy). Remember, the one must be an alloy of the other.
Yeah, that's what throws me off. Nichrome and Chromel are alloys of both Nickel and Chromium. Nichrome is 80/20% Nickel/Chromium while Chromel is 90/10% Nickel/Chromium. Following the other metals, it would make most sense for it to be Nickel and Chromel, because the Alloy is attributed to the primary component. For instance, Bronze is 88/12% Copper/Tin but is considered an alloy of Copper because it is the primary component.
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I might be nuts, but I have the tools... I work for an ad agency.
I printed the chart using a high resolution color laser printer. The image is still a bit fuzzy, but I was able to tell a couple of things once I used a magnifer on the image.
The first of the unknown Allomantic metals, the pure metal appears to begin with a "Ch" or a "Cl". It does not have any letters that extend below the plane of the text (Like a "p" or "g"). Based on that I would say everyone else is correct, the unknown pure metal is Chromium.
Upon examining its alloy, I found the letters to be too fuzzy to make much out. Except - the last letter may be a capital "E". It may also be an "l". It's name is also shorter than the pure metal.
Now, most of the metals on the sheet in the smaller boxes are are all letted differently. They're all placed a few points further down in the box. Atium and Malatium are printed similarly to the unknown metals. Because the letters are pressed up against the top of the box, they appear even more fuzzy, and actually could be capitalized. But, that would be inconsistent with the rest of the text within the boxes.
Conclusion: I have to agree with the previous post. Either the metal/alloy combination is Chromium/Chromel or there is gibberish printed on those lines and we're simply misinterpreting.
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I recant my previous thought. Metal #14 must be the alloy. How do I rationalize this? Well, look on the chart and analyze where the alloys and the pure metals are. If you think of the chart as a circle about the origin, splitting into four quadrants, you can clearly see that adjacent to the y-axis (that is, the vertical axis) are the metals which are pure metals. On the other hand, the x-axis (horizontal) lies next to every single alloy.
Metals adjacent to the x-axis are: Steel, Pewter, Bronze, Brass, Electrum, Malatium, Duralumin, and metal 14.
Metals adjacent to the y-axis are: Iron, Tin, Copper, Zinc, Gold, Atium, Aluminum, and metal 13.
So whatever metal 13 is, metal 14 must be the alloy of it.
It's still a distinct possibility that metal 13 is not Chromium, of course. I expect them both to still be special metals :P
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Yeah, that's what throws me off. Nichrome and Chromel are alloys of both Nickel and Chromium. Nichrome is 80/20% Nickel/Chromium while Chromel is 90/10% Nickel/Chromium. Following the other metals, it would make most sense for it to be Nickel and Chromel, because the Alloy is attributed to the primary component. For instance, Bronze is 88/12% Copper/Tin but is considered an alloy of Copper because it is the primary component.
You've got a good point. Brass, though, is almost always more copper than zinc. We don't know what the percentages are in the specific allomantic alloy Brandon used (if he ever even decided that). But that may be a sign that the alloy does not have to be primarily of the allomantic base metal.
Can anyone find any good candidate alloys of Chromium where it is the primary component?
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You've got a good point. Brass, though, is almost always more copper than zinc. We don't know what the percentages are in the specific allomantic alloy Brandon used (if he ever even decided that). But that may be a sign that the alloy does not have to be primarily of the allomantic base metal.
Can anyone find any good candidate alloys of Chromium where it is the primary component?
Yeah, I was basing my theory on White Brass for it to hold :P
I couldn't find any alloys with Chromium as it's primary component however.
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That's why I don't think it's Chromium. Metal #13's color doesn't look like chromium, anyways.
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*Raises hand*
I has a theory. So this kinda goes back to the mist being one of the metals. What if the Chromium was in the mist which hinders everyone's powers and that's why not everyone can burn metals and burning Nichromel gives you the power to burn metal. This would explain why Elend could burn it even though he wasn't an Allomancer. This would make them opposites, fit them into the chart.
Also the burning the mists could have been directing the power of the Chromium against TLR making him weaker, not Vin stronger. So you get rid of the mist and everyone can burn metals, but those with Nichromel can burn better and stronger.
Th. Nichromel would be passed through blood, showing how it's inherited, it could be similar to a chromium deficiency only difference being it'd be backwards and with Nichromel.
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*Raises hand*
I has a theory. So this kinda goes back to the mist being one of the metals. What if the Chromium was in the mist which hinders everyone's powers and that's why not everyone can burn metals and burning Nichromel gives you the power to burn metal. This would explain why Elend could burn it even though he wasn't an Allomancer. This would make them opposites, fit them into the chart.
Also the burning the mists could have been directing the power of the Chromium against TLR making him weaker, not Vin stronger. So you get rid of the mist and everyone can burn metals, but those with Nichromel can burn better and stronger.
Th. Nichromel would be passed through blood, showing how it's inherited, it could be similar to a chromium deficiency only difference being it'd be backwards and with Nichromel.
Would this mean that before the Ascension, everybody was capable of Allomancy?
That would be the mother of all twists. It would be really cool, actually. Unfortunately, I think that something as basic as that would have survived in skaa tradition. and that Alendi would have compared Feruchemy to Allomancy even if Allomancy was universal (e.g. he would have said that the Terrismen became stronger than even a man flaring pewter.)
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I have an idea.
I reread the last segment of MB2 and learned two things. First of all, the metal Elend ate is never described more than a "bead of metal" or, as Vin said, it was the wrong color from atium. So, we cannot accurately know what color the metal is. In any case, it does not match any of the other metals Vin is familiar with.
Furthermore, the Well is not described "like liquid metal", but actually "liquid metal". And silvery colored. Now, here is my thought: Duralumin and Aluminum are Internal metals, and in that regard, they internally enhance Allomancy. The other ones could externally enhance Allomancy... or something.
Plus, anyone else find it odd that we only know of the metal Elend ate only occurred at the Well of Ascension? They could be... like, alloys of each other, considering their close proximity. One being pure and the other being the alloy, I mean.
It smells like atium. Atium, like this metal, is extremely rare and only seems to occur in one place. Very... unique.
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*Raises hand*
I has a theory. So this kinda goes back to the mist being one of the metals. What if the Chromium was in the mist which hinders everyone's powers and that's why not everyone can burn metals and burning Nichromel gives you the power to burn metal. This would explain why Elend could burn it even though he wasn't an Allomancer. This would make them opposites, fit them into the chart.
Also the burning the mists could have been directing the power of the Chromium against TLR making him weaker, not Vin stronger. So you get rid of the mist and everyone can burn metals, but those with Nichromel can burn better and stronger.
Th. Nichromel would be passed through blood, showing how it's inherited, it could be similar to a chromium deficiency only difference being it'd be backwards and with Nichromel.
Would this mean that before the Ascension, everybody was capable of Allomancy?
That would be the mother of all twists. It would be really cool, actually. Unfortunately, I think that something as basic as that would have survived in skaa tradition. and that Alendi would have compared Feruchemy to Allomancy even if Allomancy was universal (e.g. he would have said that the Terrismen became stronger than even a man flaring pewter.)
Yeah, I think something like that would have survived for at least a thousand years. Quite a theory though. A couple days and we'll see. :)
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*Raises hand*
I has a theory. So this kinda goes back to the mist being one of the metals. What if the Chromium was in the mist which hinders everyone's powers and that's why not everyone can burn metals and burning Nichromel gives you the power to burn metal. This would explain why Elend could burn it even though he wasn't an Allomancer. This would make them opposites, fit them into the chart.
Also the burning the mists could have been directing the power of the Chromium against TLR making him weaker, not Vin stronger. So you get rid of the mist and everyone can burn metals, but those with Nichromel can burn better and stronger.
Th. Nichromel would be passed through blood, showing how it's inherited, it could be similar to a chromium deficiency only difference being it'd be backwards and with Nichromel.
Would this mean that before the Ascension, everybody was capable of Allomancy?
That would be the mother of all twists. It would be really cool, actually. Unfortunately, I think that something as basic as that would have survived in skaa tradition. and that Alendi would have compared Feruchemy to Allomancy even if Allomancy was universal (e.g. he would have said that the Terrismen became stronger than even a man flaring pewter.)
Yeah, I think something like that would have survived for at least a thousand years. Quite a theory though. A couple days and we'll see. :)
TLR had a lot of power he could have stomped it out.
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*Raises hand*
I has a theory. So this kinda goes back to the mist being one of the metals. What if the Chromium was in the mist which hinders everyone's powers and that's why not everyone can burn metals and burning Nichromel gives you the power to burn metal. This would explain why Elend could burn it even though he wasn't an Allomancer. This would make them opposites, fit them into the chart.
Also the burning the mists could have been directing the power of the Chromium against TLR making him weaker, not Vin stronger. So you get rid of the mist and everyone can burn metals, but those with Nichromel can burn better and stronger.
Th. Nichromel would be passed through blood, showing how it's inherited, it could be similar to a chromium deficiency only difference being it'd be backwards and with Nichromel.
Would this mean that before the Ascension, everybody was capable of Allomancy?
That would be the mother of all twists. It would be really cool, actually. Unfortunately, I think that something as basic as that would have survived in skaa tradition. and that Alendi would have compared Feruchemy to Allomancy even if Allomancy was universal (e.g. he would have said that the Terrismen became stronger than even a man flaring pewter.)
Yeah, I think something like that would have survived for at least a thousand years. Quite a theory though. A couple days and we'll see. :)
TLR had a lot of power he could have stomped it out.
Even if TLR did stamp it out, Alendi would still probably have compared Feruchemy and Allomancy. Even if it was perfectly normal to burn metals, surely the comparison would have come up. In such a world, most people would still not have had access to metals at all times, and so it would still have been a magic system. In addition, the supply lists would have certainly included all the allomantic metals as part of the basic needs; in such a world, who would go anywhere without pewter for the soldiers, at the very least?
Perhaps even more important, the Keepers would surely have remembered something as basic as that. TLR didn't control absolutely everything. With 300+ religions still in memory and knowledge of flowers floating around, surely something as universal as that would have slipped through.
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I have to agree. I feel its just too far out there to suggest before TLR everyone could use allomancy. Now dont get me wrong that is a cool idea. I only think that it would have survived in some way shape or form that was known to people.
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I have to agree. I feel its just too far out there to suggest before TLR everyone could use allomancy. Now dont get me wrong that is a cool idea. I only think that it would have survived in some way shape or form that was known to people.
But how often do wo think about stuff that is just natural? It could have easily been looked over.
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I'll admit that's possible; it's one thing to be stronger because of pewter (especially if most everyone can do it), but it's another thing to see someone grow in size and muscle to move a boulder. The comparison may never have come to mind. If everyone can use something, it may not be referenced at all.
Like if everyone had leather boots, and then someone had snake hide boots, you might comment on that oddity without ever mentioning that everyone else had leather boots, just because, well, everyone had leather boots. Why state the obvious?
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Like if everyone had leather boots, and then someone had snake hide boots, you might comment on that oddity without ever mentioning that everyone else had leather boots, just because, well, everyone had leather boots.
Wow I want a pair.
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I'll admit that's possible; it's one thing to be stronger because of pewter (especially if most everyone can do it), but it's another thing to see someone grow in size and muscle to move a boulder. The comparison may never have come to mind. If everyone can use something, it may not be referenced at all.
Like if everyone had leather boots, and then someone had snake hide boots, you might comment on that oddity without ever mentioning that everyone else had leather boots, just because, well, everyone had leather boots. Why state the obvious?
That's one possibility. However, the real deal breaker for me is that TLR did not have absolute power over all myths and legends. The Keepers deliberately opposed him, desperately saving what they had. Surely ~200 years into TLR's reign people would still have remembered that they used to be able to use Allomancy? That would have been an economic and social calamity on the order of, well, everything else TLR did. Surely even if TLR changed the skaa legends he would not have been able to change the Keeper's legends? We have solid evidence that he did not. The knowledge would have survived.
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The keepers weren't founded until like two hundred years into his reign remember? Think of our world 200 years ago. That's a really long time.
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Case in point. Thank you, Comatose. :)
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I have received my book. I can no longer post on this topic :(