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Local Authors => Brandon Sanderson => Topic started by: Chaos on September 11, 2008, 04:23:33 AM

Title: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Chaos on September 11, 2008, 04:23:33 AM
Okay, this one is similar to the Hemalurgy thread. Let's filter all questions, theories, and ideas about the kandra into one topic (most notably the stuff that was posted in the "Vin as HOA" topic, which seemed to have diverted into a talk about kandra these last few pages).

Plus, we have this juicy morsel. (http://www.brandonsanderson.com/library/34/Mistborn-3) Discuss (kandra-wise, at least)!
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on September 11, 2008, 05:55:42 AM
I love TenSoon's chapters.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Chaos on September 11, 2008, 06:38:34 AM
That was a true treat, indeed. I do wish to learn more of this "Blessing of Presence" thing. It seems rather important, being capitalized and all.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: jjb on September 11, 2008, 07:34:34 AM
So if it wasn't obvious after reading the chapter, Ookla just told us that TenSoon will stay alive and be important enough to get more viewpoints. yay!
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: darxbane on September 11, 2008, 02:25:12 PM
The new chapter raised a question for me.  We now know acid can kill a Kandra, but could that be how TenSoon killed Oreseur?  It seems that would be difficult to do quickly and quietly.  It's probably quite messy as well.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Chaos on September 11, 2008, 05:14:49 PM
Actually, other people referenced the fact that TenSoon gets more chapters. Besides, he's too cool to die this soon.

The new chapter raised a question for me.  We now know acid can kill a Kandra, but could that be how TenSoon killed Oreseur?  It seems that would be difficult to do quickly and quietly.  It's probably quite messy as well.

Hmmmm... Very true... I would say something profound, but all I have is to say that it's definitely something to ponder about.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: SarahG on September 11, 2008, 06:07:36 PM
The problem of comprehensive threads is that it can be difficult to discuss a given aspect of the book without discussing other aspects.  For instance, some of us suspect that kandra are related to hemalurgy because they're related to koloss, which have nails in their bodies.  So in which comprehensive thread should that theory be discussed?  (Hypothetically speaking; I actually have no more thoughts than the above to discuss on that particular theory.)

OK, got that little rant out, now it's time to humbly confess that my idea of kandra being entirely insubstantial, spiritual beings turns out to have been way off base and completely wrong.  Wrong, wrong, wrong.  I still think it would have been cool if it turned out that kandra not only were of Preservation, but actually WERE Preservation, but clearly that's not how EUOL chose to do things.

I still wonder how they can digest and excrete things, though, without a digestive system.  (Didn't he say, when considering whether to make an eye, that organs without skeletons could easily be crushed by his mass of unattached muscles?)  What IS their body made of, other than muscles and skin?  Is there some sort of fluid?

Frankly, I think kandra are kind of gross and creepy.  I think maybe that's what EUOL wants us to think.  But I do like TenSoon; it looks like he's going to turn out to be quite a noble, self-sacrificing character.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on September 11, 2008, 06:21:39 PM
I think of them as digesting things like amoebas do.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: darxbane on September 11, 2008, 06:48:41 PM
Agreed, or like the Blob.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Miyabi on September 11, 2008, 07:30:28 PM
You all keep asking how TenSoon killed OreSeur, yet we don't know IF he was killed.  Maybe when Zane told TenSoon to replace OreSeur he simply replaced him, telling OreSeur to go home.  I don't recall TenSoon explicitly saying "I killed OreSeur,"  I think he might have said, "He's gone,"  but that wouldn't mean he was dead either.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Reaves on September 11, 2008, 09:02:07 PM
yeah i definitely don't think he killed OreSeur. The only crimes mentioned are breaking the contract and telling Vin the kandra's secret. There was no murder involved.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: GreenMonsta on September 11, 2008, 09:15:38 PM
Here's the thing, how would one Kandra determine the importance of its contract being more important than another? If Ten Soon told OreSeur to go home what would make him obey? Why would Ten Soon win that argument, because hes the third generation and has some sway. Who's to say Zane didn't have ten soon point out OreSeur and then Zane didn't kill him? I'm sure that wouldn't go against the contract.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Reaves on September 11, 2008, 11:23:29 PM
perhaps OreSeur is still in there, trapped in some closet without a skeleton... naw i dont really know. I just think there would be some guilt over killing one of his own kind.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Andrew the Great on September 11, 2008, 11:30:37 PM
Not really. In mistborn prime (SPOILERS IF YOU HAVEN'T READ MISTBORN PRIME), it's mentioned that a kandra will kill another kandra if it's current contract holder tells it to. The contract is what keeps the kandra alive, in their minds. It's what allows them to exist without humans freaking out and destroying them. So, they have to keep the contract at all costs. The life of a single kandra is insignificant when compared to the lives of the entire race.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: GreenMonsta on September 12, 2008, 12:45:37 AM
Mistborn Prime? Que? What is this and were do I get it?
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on September 12, 2008, 03:55:46 AM
It's the first book Brandon wrote using the Mistborn magic system idea. It didn't turn out very well, though, so Brandon cannibalized it for Mistborn: The Final Empire. (Final Empire Prime is another book that Brandon cannibalized too. He also cannibalized part of Mythwalker and part of Aether of Night to make the Mistborn trilogy. Another part of Mythwalker was cannibalized into Warbreaker, and another part of Aether of Night was cannibalized into The Liar of Partinel, the first new Dragonsteel book.)

The only character from the original Mistborn Prime book who makes it into the current series is OreSeur (spelled Oresoor in the original).

You get it by asking Brandon for it.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: GreenMonsta on September 12, 2008, 03:58:38 AM
Well thank you Mr. Ook. I guess that wealth of knowlage comes in handy from time to time.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Inkthinker on September 12, 2008, 04:02:39 AM
For instance, some of us suspect that kandra are related to hemalurgy because they're related to koloss, which have nails in their bodies. 

Wait... koloss have nails? I don't think that's right, is it? Steel Inquisitors have nails.

I've just been assuming that koloss and kandra are the results of biological experiments performed by the Lord Ruler in his early days. I don't see any hemalurgy references to either koloss or kandra offhand...
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Andrew the Great on September 12, 2008, 04:38:57 AM
In WoA, I don't remember the exact page, but toward the end, one of the main characters is discussing how the koloss all have nails in their bodies. We were discussing that this may be hemalurgy related a while back. But Koloss definitely have nails.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Chaos on September 12, 2008, 04:43:20 AM
For instance, some of us suspect that kandra are related to hemalurgy because they're related to koloss, which have nails in their bodies. 

Wait... koloss have nails? I don't think that's right, is it? Steel Inquisitors have nails.

I've just been assuming that koloss and kandra are the results of biological experiments performed by the Lord Ruler in his early days. I don't see any hemalurgy references to either koloss or kandra offhand...

They do. It's one of those elusive references you only see once, but they definitely have nails.

Hey, Andrew, did that particular thing make it into the Hemalurgy Reference Thread, or did it die too prematurely for that?

Quote from: SarahG
The problem of comprehensive threads is that it can be difficult to discuss a given aspect of the book without discussing other aspects.  For instance, some of us suspect that kandra are related to hemalurgy because they're related to koloss, which have nails in their bodies.  So in which comprehensive thread should that theory be discussed?  (Hypothetically speaking; I actually have no more thoughts than the above to discuss on that particular theory.)

Well, the Hemalurgy thread gets off topic all the time. It could go in whatever topic people post it in, though I believe that the relationship with koloss, kandra, and Hemalurgy was mentioned in that thread already, just not extensively talked about.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Qarlin on September 15, 2008, 06:33:30 PM
Still, it would be nice to have a reference for the nail bit.

I imagine Ten Soon had to eat Oreseur. Eww. But that's the only way I could think of a kandra killing another kandra without the mess of Acid.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: GreenMonsta on September 15, 2008, 08:38:02 PM

The whole thing about Ten Soon and Ore Seur is that Kandra only eat bodies as far as we know. They don't eat alive bodies they eat dead ones. Also that would be the only way to get the same wolfhound body that Ore Seur had. So I don't know if they do eat living Kandra bodies or if Ten Soon killed Ore Seur and then ate the body.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Miyabi on September 15, 2008, 09:37:21 PM
Still, it would be nice to have a reference for the nail bit.

I imagine Ten Soon had to eat Oreseur. Eww. But that's the only way I could think of a kandra killing another kandra without the mess of Acid.
As far as the nails, it's only like one line where Sazed is sitting at his desk and as a passing thought mentions them being on his desk.  I'm inclined to think that MAYBE this is Atium and where it has all been hidden.  Then they were shaped like nails in order to hide them.

I also don't think that OreSeur was killed, just sent home.  IF I remember correctly Zane said "Replace OreSeur" not kill him. 
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on September 15, 2008, 09:49:34 PM
It's only humans that they don't kill. How did OreSeur get the wolfhound body?
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: GreenMonsta on September 15, 2008, 10:31:40 PM
Exactly, he would have had to eat it to form it correctly. Also I still don't get how he would have sent him home. Give a reason why Ore Suer would listen and break his contract even though a Kandra lives for their contract. Either way I think Tensoon ate Ore Suer either dead or alive.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Miyabi on September 15, 2008, 10:40:24 PM
I guess I just want OreSeur to be alive. :(  I miss him. :'(
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Chaos on September 15, 2008, 10:59:18 PM
Hey, I think it was cool that TenSoon betrayed Zane just because he liked Vin. It makes him seem much more human--despite being inhuman :P.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: GreenMonsta on September 15, 2008, 11:30:49 PM
I agree, the whole "we live to uphold the contact" thing was to mechanical. Cold almost. It really made Ten Soon a more likable charater. Not only because he saved Vin but just because he broke contract.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Reaves on September 15, 2008, 11:31:50 PM
Exactly, he would have had to eat it to form it correctly. Also I still don't get how he would have sent him home. Give a reason why Ore Suer would listen and break his contract even though a Kandra lives for their contract. Either way I think Tensoon ate Ore Suer either dead or alive.

I guess that would make him a cannibal  :P rather disgusting :o Although i guess the stomach acid would do the job. Does anyone know what kandra eat? or if they do?
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Miyabi on September 15, 2008, 11:38:33 PM
TenSoon probably had experience making Wolfhounds before.  He probably just stole the skeleton from OreSeur and used it.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: GreenMonsta on September 15, 2008, 11:40:44 PM
Yeah but would the dog look the same? I know hes experienced but could he get the details right without a corpse? I dought it. Vin pays close attention to things it would be hard if things werent exactly right.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Miyabi on September 15, 2008, 11:45:13 PM
Yeah but would the dog look the same? I know hes experienced but could he get the details right without a corpse? I dought it. Vin pays close attention to things it would be hard if things werent exactly right.
But she also HATED OreSeur.  So she REALLY didn't pay attention until AFTER.

I also vaguely remember it being said that she never actually SAW OreSeur as the dog, because that was when TenSoon got rid of him.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: VegasDev on September 15, 2008, 11:56:44 PM
Does anyone know what kandra eat? or if they do?

Well, we know that they at least eat aged (rancid) meat so other than that not sure of what their diet consists. I find it interesting though, that they would keep flesh inside a tiny pouch, assumably for emergencies.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Miyabi on September 16, 2008, 12:13:31 AM
Does anyone know what kandra eat? or if they do?

Well, we know that they at least eat aged (rancid) meat so other than that not sure of what their diet consists. I find it interesting though, that they would keep flesh inside a tiny pouch, assumably for emergencies.
I assume that flesh was for making bodies, not eating.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: VegasDev on September 16, 2008, 12:45:56 AM
I assume that flesh was for making bodies, not eating.

I assume both.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: GreenMonsta on September 16, 2008, 02:57:25 AM
Agree with Vegas. Its probably for both sustenance and creating.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: darxbane on September 16, 2008, 04:43:03 PM
I also agree.  Kandra gotta eat too, you know.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Miyabi on September 16, 2008, 06:24:36 PM
Yes, but remember how starving TenSoon was when they threw down the flesh to him?  If he was soooo hungry why didn't he simply eat the flesh he had stored.  He assumed they were going to let him die.

I think it's something along the lines that if you set it aside for using it gets preserved and therefor is "uneatable."
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: VegasDev on September 16, 2008, 07:48:05 PM
Yes, but remember how starving TenSoon was when they threw down the flesh to him?  If he was soooo hungry why didn't he simply eat the flesh he had stored.  He assumed they were going to let him die.

I think it's something along the lines that if you set it aside for using it gets preserved and therefor is "uneatable."

He had been held for months and they fed him very little. It's possible that he was rationing the flesh so he could stay alive longer. When they find a new body you only ever see the bones; where else would the flesh go?
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Miyabi on September 16, 2008, 07:59:52 PM
Yes, but remember how starving TenSoon was when they threw down the flesh to him?  If he was soooo hungry why didn't he simply eat the flesh he had stored.  He assumed they were going to let him die.

I think it's something along the lines that if you set it aside for using it gets preserved and therefor is "uneatable."

He had been held for months and they fed him very little. It's possible that he was rationing the flesh so he could stay alive longer. When they find a new body you only ever see the bones; where else would the flesh go?
Some would be eaten, some stored, and the rest used to create the body.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: SarahG on September 16, 2008, 08:03:45 PM
I don't think we should underestimate TenSoon's willpower or ability to act in a noble and self-sacrificing manner.  Even if he could have consumed the flesh and staved off feelings of starvation, I believe he could have been saving it for just the purpose he ended up using it for.  He knew the Contracts, and while he was aware that the other kandra might not follow them, there was also the possibility that they would, and he wished to be prepared for that possibility and do what he could to speak out.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: VegasDev on September 16, 2008, 09:37:02 PM
I agree 100% SarahG.

More kandra questions.

1) Is it possible that kandra gain memories when digesting the brain of their corpse? They say that they observe very well but is that the whole story? I'm sure this one has already been discussed but thought I would add it anyway.

2) When they consume the corpse, do they start from the head down, feet up? Do they put themselves on one leg at a time

3) How did OreSuer make Kelsier's skin transparent? If they use the flesh as the material, how do they alter it's attributes to make it transparent? I can understand cutting holes in it etc. to allow storing something inside their body, but altering its makeup? Is it possible that it is some form of Hemalurgy? That they burn the flesh in their flesh pouch much like an Allomancer with metal? Do Inquisitors happen to eat flesh to live longer, become much stronger etc?
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: darxbane on September 16, 2008, 09:57:58 PM
I don't think they use the flesh to actually make the body, I think they use it to change their own flesh to the texture and color needed.  They must also become more and less dense based on the size of the organism they are mimicking.  The only trick is they need a support structure, and even though Tensoon can create organs without help, he can still probably do it much faster the other way. 

As for how he eats, I imagine he envelopes the food and digests the whole thing at once.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: SarahG on September 16, 2008, 10:01:10 PM
I agree 100% SarahG.
Of course you do.  You nominated me for HoA.

1) Is it possible that kandra gain memories when digesting the brain of their corpse? They say that they observe very well but is that the whole story?
My guess is no.  Or at least, they do not gain access to ALL the memories of the victim.  For one thing, the victim is already dead, so presumably the memories die with the brain.  For another thing, there are a few mistakes that TenSoon makes that could possibly have clued Vin in - for example, he "forgets" that he already warned her that replicating the wolfhound would take a long time because of the hair placement.

2) When they consume the corpse, do they start from the head down, feet up? Do they put themselves on one leg at a time
My guess (based on the new TenSoon chapter) is that they could choose to digest and replicate the body in any order they wished.  I wonder if we'll get to see any more detailed scenes of kandra taking form.  I bet we will, since TenSoon is a viewpoint character.

3) How did OreSuer make Kelsier's skin transparent? If they use the flesh as the material, how do they alter it's attributes to make it transparent? I can understand cutting holes in it etc. to allow storing something inside their body, but altering its makeup? Is it possible that it is some form of Hemalurgy? That they burn the flesh in their flesh pouch much like an Allomancer with metal? Do Inquisitors happen to eat flesh to live longer, become much stronger etc?
Great questions there.  I'm thinking that since kandra are able to create their own flesh, after the patterns of the bodies they've eaten, they would come to have an excellent knowledge of biology and how it works.  This would enable them to tweak those workings to a far greater extent than humans can do.

As for Inquisitors, the idea that they're cannibals is terrifying, especially now that I know they have that etching of me in their bathroom.  I don't want to be stalked by cannibals.  If I had to choose, I'd rather my flesh be lusted after sexually than gastrically.

That brings up a good point, though: maybe this is the reason people in the Mistborn world tend to wear a lot of clothes - to discourage the Inquisitors from being tempted to eat them.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: GreenMonsta on September 16, 2008, 10:07:52 PM
Hahaha ;D, good stuff Sarah I think you and Dave have it pegged
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: VegasDev on September 16, 2008, 10:13:56 PM
My guess is no.  Or at least, they do not gain access to ALL the memories of the victim.  For one thing, the victim is already dead, so presumably the memories die with the brain.  For another thing, there are a few mistakes that TenSoon makes that could possibly have clued Vin in - for example, he "forgets" that he already warned her that replicating the wolfhound would take a long time because of the hair placement.

Correct, however even if he did consume OreSuer, kandra do not have brains so there would be nothing to absorb.

I'd rather my flesh be lusted after sexually than gastrically.

I know what you mean. This one time I was stripping at a Jenny Craig convention and I thought I was pouring baby oil all over myself but it turns out that it was barbeque sauce. I barely made it out alive.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: SarahG on September 16, 2008, 10:22:01 PM
I hate it when I get baby oil and BBQ sauce confused.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: GreenMonsta on September 16, 2008, 10:45:14 PM
 ;DDon't stop ;D
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: VegasDev on September 16, 2008, 10:57:38 PM
I hate it when I get baby oil and BBQ sauce confused.

Yeah, the ribs slide right off the grill.

More questions:

1) What was more beneficial in consuming the dogs body? The bone structure resulting in more leverage with shorter appendages? The muscle structure wrapping around the bones? Learning new ways to modify ear and nasal canals? etc.

2) Could a kandra that has memorized human bodies use just about anything as a skeleton or does it have to be human bone? That is, could they create a skeleton out of sticks or metal pipes?

3) Could a kandra store extra bones inside their new body so they could instantly change their size? Like, could they keep an extra couple vertebra, leg bones and arm bones, etc. stored where the lungs should be and then quickly go from being a kid to an adult?

4) What sort of size restrictions do they have for consuming bodies? Could they do a horse or is that too far to stretch their muscles? Could two kandra team up to do a horse, one being the horses....you get the picture.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Reaves on September 16, 2008, 11:53:56 PM


 If I had to choose, I'd rather my flesh be lusted after sexually than gastrically.
lol i should sig that.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: VegasDev on September 17, 2008, 12:05:58 AM


 If I had to choose, I'd rather my flesh be lusted after sexually than gastrically.
lol i should sig that.

Please let the records note that this quote is attributed to the wrong person. I did not state this, but merely voiced my agreement of SarahG's statement. I would also like it noted that I will not use that statement as a sig like Reaves but as a pickup line.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Agate on September 17, 2008, 03:36:58 AM
The Kandra and (Koloss) were of Preservation /created by TLR. 
There are a few things that lead me to believe that the Koloss and the Kandra existed before TLR and were perhaps some life form that was not created new, but altered.  The comment by TenSoon that the Kandra have a Religion from pre- Final Kingdom, is a main point. Is it that they and the Koloss were human and in the changing of the world TLR made changes to people too, preservation,  to survive the changed world? (The Koloss want to live in the city because they are human /want to be human. Why do they think this? Is it that they have a belief, or history that says they at one time did live in cities, were in fact human?)
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: GreenMonsta on September 17, 2008, 03:46:24 AM
I like it agate
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Qarlin on September 17, 2008, 07:13:37 AM
I like the idea that they were changed from something else.

But I can't say they're "of Preservation" just because they say so. You could say the Humans are of Ruin, but a lot of them serve Preservation instead. I think you definitely could say Inquisitors are of Ruin, though. Whether they want to be is another question. The biggest keys to humans being of Ruin are Hemalurgy and Allomancy, because both are destructive (though Allomancy isn't, necessarily) but Feruchemy, which is a human power, is definitely more preservation like than Ruin. Even if Ruin can mess with it some.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: SarahG on September 17, 2008, 05:03:43 PM
1) What was more beneficial in consuming the dogs body? The bone structure resulting in more leverage with shorter appendages? The muscle structure wrapping around the bones? Learning new ways to modify ear and nasal canals? etc.
TenSoon mentions the bones as being full of unexpected advantages, such as running faster, but I think the new ways to form ears and noses are probably something he can transfer to human bodies, so in that way they would be more versatile.

2) Could a kandra that has memorized human bodies use just about anything as a skeleton or does it have to be human bone? That is, could they create a skeleton out of sticks or metal pipes?
I think other materials would work, if they were the right shape and size and strength, and if they didn't disintegrate in the body's juices.  I don't think kandra can carve bones into different shapes, they have to use what they're given.

3) Could a kandra store extra bones inside their new body so they could instantly change their size? Like, could they keep an extra couple vertebra, leg bones and arm bones, etc. stored where the lungs should be and then quickly go from being a kid to an adult?
Yes, I bet they could, though I'm not sure about storing them in the lung cavity.  I think that in order to function as a human, a kandra needs to have the organs of a human.  Remember when TenSoon had to quickly form a lung and larynx as well as a tongue, before he could speak?  Maybe kandra could store a few bones somewhere else, though, like in the abdomen amongst the other organs.  There would be a pretty strict limit on storage space, though, before the body would start having strange bulges and lumps.

4) What sort of size restrictions do they have for consuming bodies? Could they do a horse or is that too far to stretch their muscles? Could two kandra team up to do a horse, one being the horses....you get the picture.
I get the impression that OreSeur/TenSoon is the first kandra ever to try to imitate something non-human, at least as part of the Contract.  On the other hand, mistwraiths use all sorts of bones, so maybe kandra do as well, when they're not working.  I would think there must be a size limit, though it might be possible for a kandra to gradually increase its size or its capacity to digest.  I don't think kandra could team up; it seems to me that each kandra needs to remain its own creature.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Qarlin on September 18, 2008, 06:24:24 AM
I wonder how closely mistwraiths and Kandra are related. Mistwraiths could just be baby Kandra.

In Final Empire, Chapter 35 (page 488 in hardback)
Quote
"A kandra," the creature said, its skin losing its transparency. "A mistwraith that has . . . grown up, you might say."
Sort of, anyway. Maybe there's a process by which they become more intelligent.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Miyabi on September 18, 2008, 06:53:39 AM
I wonder how closely mistwraiths and Kandra are related. Mistwraiths could just be baby Kandra.

In Final Empire, Chapter 35 (page 488 in hardback)
Quote
"A kandra," the creature said, its skin losing its transparency. "A mistwraith that has . . . grown up, you might say."
Sort of, anyway. Maybe there's a process by which they become more intelligent.
Well if you think about it TenSoon talks about how quickly he can make a body and how long it takes most Kandra.  Maybe Mistwraith are simply the larvae form.  They can't put bodies together, but the can make body parts, so they end up looking all awkward and stuff.  Then as they consume the flesh and whatnot they gain brain power and as their cognition improves they begin to be able to make bodies correctly and be intelligent.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: darxbane on September 18, 2008, 06:02:31 PM
I agree with Miyabi.  Maybe that's what the "Gift of Presence" means.  The Mistwraiths become aware of their existence at some point, and become Kandra.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: SarahG on September 18, 2008, 06:22:42 PM
The Gift of Presence must be more than that; after all, it enables TenSoon to stay aware and sane much longer than he could have done otherwise.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: VegasDev on September 18, 2008, 06:23:20 PM
I imagined the gift of presence to be hearing Preservation. Like hearing Ruin would drive you crazy, but hearing Preservation would keep you sane, calm your fears etc.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: SarahG on September 18, 2008, 06:24:51 PM
I imagined the gift of presence to be hearing Preservation. Like hearing Ruin would drive you crazy, but hearing Preservation would keep you sane, calm your fears etc.

Interesting.  I like it.  It fits well with kandra's belief that they are of Preservation.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: VegasDev on September 18, 2008, 06:37:40 PM
Interesting.  I like it.  It fits well with kandra's belief that they are of Preservation.

That's part of the problem. Brandon has left all these little clues, that if you fit them together form these nice little plausible theories, but they may all be red herrings to throw us off from what is right in front of our eyes. Perhaps these theories are like Alendi, they just fit together too perfectly. Brandon has conveniently given us little tidbits in his annotations that help support many of our theories after most certainly reading them on his forum. He has given us sample chapters that might be worded just slightly differently than in the printed form. I mean, I know there were grammatical errors* in the last one he posted that hopefully did not make it to the book. Hmmmmm.

*Example: This betrayal had ended with of his master's death.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: SarahG on September 18, 2008, 06:48:30 PM
Well, not everything that fits is a red herring.  Some things that fit might be actual foreshadowing and true hints to the secrets of the book.  So I still say, I like your theory that the kandra's Gift of Presence is related to Preservation.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: VegasDev on September 18, 2008, 06:59:25 PM
So I still say, I like your theory that the kandra's Gift of Presence is related to Preservation.

Yeah, I do too. When it says:
Quote from: Sample Chapter
But TenSoon had the Blessing of Presence. His mind would not give in easily. Sometimes he cursed the Blessing for keeping him from the blissful relief of madness
I am given the impression that 'Presence' is an active force. What better force to keep you sane than that of Preservation?
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Omelethead on September 19, 2008, 06:10:42 PM
All right, I just read/scanned 5 pages, and I didn't see this mentioned anywhere. Why do kandra require atium to buy their Contract? Kelsier mentions using the last of his atium to buy OreSeur (before he robs Keep Venture), and later in the Final Empire (I think it's towards the end) someone says how difficult it is to get a kandra, because they only accept atium as payment.


Anyone know why that is?
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: VegasDev on September 19, 2008, 06:16:07 PM
We had discussed this prior. Below is the agreed upon most plausible explanation. Not really.

Quote from: Your's truly
Atium must be Kandra eggs which they are trying to get back. The female Kandra morphs into a gelatinous ooze, sinks down into the ground and leaves her geode for the male to inseminate. Man, I would hate to work in the pits....
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on September 20, 2008, 05:56:14 AM
That's the best theory anyone's come up with?
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: VegasDev on September 20, 2008, 08:09:17 AM
That's the best theory anyone's come up with?

Nothing was really proposed that I am aware of; I'll come up with a good theory tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: spejoku on September 20, 2008, 04:45:11 PM
If atium's the crazy supermetal, maybe the Kandra use it for their own magic system, like how Mistborn use it to see the future and Themalurgists (I really hope that's the right one) use it to store age (from the glossary in WOA).  Atium seems to have time altering properties.   Maybe the Kandra need tons of Atium to break free of their weakness to Allomancy.

Of course, the LR could have used the whole gigantic Atium store to buy tons of kandra contracts, but that doesn't make sense when he knows he can just manipulate them.

I dunno.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Qarlin on September 20, 2008, 06:14:40 PM
Maybe the Kandra consume it to gain blessings, like the Blessing of Presence.

Maybe it's used to gain intellect; sharpen the mind; to raise a Mistwraith to a Kandra.

Maybe they knew it was what was most valuable to humans, and therefore made themselves as expensive as possible.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on September 20, 2008, 06:38:13 PM
Maybe they have to swallow it in order to reach sexual maturity.

Oh wait, that's {{spoiler}}.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: VegasDev on September 20, 2008, 06:57:27 PM
Maybe they have to swallow it in order to reach sexual maturity.

Oh wait, that's {{spoiler}}.

I'm assuming this is tied to Yomen since that is the character you would be. Like maybe he has to procreate with thousands of women to repopulate the world and needs his Viagra to get the job done.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Qarlin on September 20, 2008, 07:18:43 PM
So they do need to consume something to achieve different stages of development? Interesting.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on September 20, 2008, 07:39:39 PM
Maybe I was talking about a spoiler for a completely different Brandon series. :)
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Chaos on September 20, 2008, 08:14:31 PM
Maybe Ookla's just screwing with us. :P After October 14th, a lot of his mysteriousness will be dispelled. Your clock has a limit, Ookla!

I agree that Blessing of Presence could be Preservation.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Andrew the Great on September 21, 2008, 12:57:20 AM
I think that the Blessing of Presence being Preservation makes a lot of sense. I also look forward eagerly to the day that Ookla's mysteriousness vanishes and the rest of us know as much about book 3 as he does.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Chaos on September 21, 2008, 01:00:16 AM
I think that the Blessing of Presence being Preservation makes a lot of sense. I also look forward eagerly to the day that Ookla's mysteriousness vanishes and the rest of us know as much about book 3 as he does.

Yeah. That'll be a great day, until a book that isn't Warbreaker comes out--I'm thinking Way of Kings. I'm sure he'll lord that one over us when we begin theorizing about sequels for that series.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Andrew the Great on September 21, 2008, 01:17:35 AM
Not even until the sequels come out. If I had to guess, before the first one, we'll be theorizing about general plot based on random tidbits we hear.

Besides, there's always Alcatraz....
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on September 21, 2008, 01:55:39 AM
Oh, there's always another secret. :)
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Chaos on September 21, 2008, 02:36:56 AM
I haven't read Alcatraz yet... Wait, Dang it! That's a perfect thing to add to my birthday list!

Curse you, Ookla, curse you. Lol.

EDIT: Curse these annotations, too. They are too addicting.

Anyways, here's a nice MB1 annotation that's about TenSoon, so I thought I'd bring it up here.

Quote from: MB1 Annotation Chapter 28
Oh, and TenSoon makes a cameo in this chapter. This will only mean something to you if you've read the third book.

Discuss!
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Andrew the Great on September 21, 2008, 03:31:49 AM
Well firstly, that means that TenSoon was not originally in Book 2.

Alcatraz....Read it. Now. Don't wait for your birthday. Just buy it. Trust me. You won't regret it. (Unless your birthday is within a month... then I'd wait and get it free)
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Chaos on September 21, 2008, 04:04:55 AM
It's October 30th, that's the only reason why I mentioned it--it's close enough to 30 days. Besides, at Montana State University, it's family weekend on ...I think it's the 16-17th, but all I know is it's the weekend after MB3 comes out. My mom and stepdad are going to come down and visit, and so we'll celebrate my birthday. So, in that sense, I would get the presents before 30 days. Even better :D

I was telling my mom that "The best book ever comes out on October 14th" (I do this to practically all of my friends now. If they don't know what happens on October 14th, obviously they haven't been listening. Can you tell I'm hyped up?), and she said, "Oh, then that would be something to put on your birthday list?" And so then I just laugh and respond, "No, that's one of those buy-immediately-with-one-day-shipping things." So, she doesn't get to give me MB3, but Alcatraz works just as well.

Which reminds me, I need to finish MB3 in the span of 3-4 days. With classes, that could be hard, but heck, I will make it work. To me, this book means more than HP7, and I had that book done in 1.5 days. I should be fine.

Anyways, Kandra.

I'll make a note of this when I reread MB1 in anticipation for MB3, because I need to get hyped up even more. Lol.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on September 21, 2008, 04:11:49 AM
I think that's just a mistake in the annotation and it should read "second book." TenSoon was always in the second book.

And the second Alcatraz book comes out November 1st, but Scholastic doesn't seem to care about release dates so it will probably be out earlier. The first Alcatraz book hit shelves over a month early.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Chaos on September 21, 2008, 04:13:59 AM
I think that's just a mistake in the annotation and it should read "second book." TenSoon was always in the second book.

And the second Alcatraz book comes out November 1st, but Scholastic doesn't seem to care about release dates so it will probably be out earlier. The first Alcatraz book hit shelves over a month early.

Stupid Tor wanting to uphold its schedule... 'nuff said.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Andrew the Great on September 21, 2008, 05:17:10 AM
That being said, I won't complain if Alcatraz 2 is released early. And Tor really could release MB3 early and that would be just fine with me.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Chaos on September 21, 2008, 05:19:12 AM
It would be far more than fine with me. It would be, like, making me want to jump up and down like a giddy fanboy.

Anyways! We're off topic! Kandra! Kandra! Talk about Kandra!
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Qarlin on September 21, 2008, 05:59:56 AM
It's fun to note that section of the book points out that Ten Soon was the family Kandra. Not just Zane's. Ten Soon knew Elend before all his time with Vin, even if only superfluously.
Title: Re: The Comprehensive Kandra Thread
Post by: Chaos on September 21, 2008, 06:03:22 AM
...Well, obviously.

I may have forgotten that fact for a moment, but yeah, that makes a lot of sense and makes me convinced that Ookla is right: the annotation really meant "book two".