Timewaster's Guide Archive

Departments => Books => Topic started by: 42 on April 09, 2008, 02:55:33 AM

Title: Discuss
Post by: 42 on April 09, 2008, 02:55:33 AM
So in the United States, music, video games, movies, television shows, and even web-sites all have content ratings. Why don't books?

What are the pros and cons of giving books content ratings?
Title: Re: Discuss
Post by: Blane_Firehand on April 09, 2008, 03:55:58 AM
This is something I've thought about before. Unfortunately, I can't seem to remember just what my opinion was. Anyhow, I can come up with two reasons off the top of my head why books currently don't have ratings.
A) They have the stereotype of being more "wholesome" than video games, movies and similar electronic entertainment.
B) Books are usually divided into Adult, Young Adult,  and Juvenile (for fiction at least); then further into genres which set certain expectations, such as Romance and Horror. This is done in most libraries and bookstores that I know of. The only exceptions I can think of are books in a home with varied ages/tastes and yard sales (both of which I'm somewhat familiar with).
One problem I know intimately is that younger children aren't always aware of all the differences. I remember a book that I had really enjoyed as a child (one of the Xanth series, by Piers Anthony). It wasn't until I reread it some years later that I realized all the adult themes found in it. Another problem is that there is generally few ways to know how graphic some of the scenes can be before reading.

Okay, now I'll try to directly answer your question.
Pros:
Parents and people who don't want to read explicit material can just look at the rating.
Authors may be forced to be more conscious about what they put in their books.
Cons:
Kids who'll make a beeline for the M for Mature books.
Age restrictions and censorship legal battles.
Authors may be forced to be more conscious about what they put in their books.
Title: Re: Discuss
Post by: Loud_G on April 09, 2008, 02:17:19 PM
I think a rating system for books would be a grand idea.  I am always tentative about picking up a new fantasy book, unless I've heard about it through a friend who has read it, because I've run into books that I didn't appreciate due to their content.  I think a little warning would be nice. Even if it is not labeled on the book itself, maybe an online site where you can look up the book and know what to expect.

As for the kids who will go straight for the M, there will always be a group like that, whether it is labeled or not.

I don't see any issue with rating labels and censorship.  You aren't keeping full citizens from reading what they want. (Kids don't count as full citizens until they can vote, so I don't see any issue with keeping younger people from the juicier stuff.) :D
Title: Re: Discuss
Post by: Sigyn on April 09, 2008, 04:27:19 PM
This is why I like the Science Fiction Book Club.  The descriptions they have of books contain warnings at the end if there is explicit material (language, sex, or violence).  Unfortunately, they only have these for the books they actually sell.  I think it would be a great idea if there was an online site that had ratings or at least warnings on books.

And just because something is labeled "Young Adult" or "Teen" is absolutely no guarantee that it has less content than an adult book.
Title: Re: Discuss
Post by: readerMom on April 09, 2008, 05:06:32 PM
I think this would be a great idea, especially since YA books have a lot of A content.  I know Shannon Hale has mentioned her books are sold to younger readers than she intended because she doesn't have as much "adult content" and I found Alcatraz in the Children's section, not YA where I think it should go, for the same reason.
Why people think that to make a book attractive to adults it has to have swearing, sex and details of every lewd thought that crosses the author's mind drives me nuts.  OK you've hit a rant topic of mine, sorry.
Title: Re: Discuss
Post by: pengwenn on April 09, 2008, 06:52:17 PM
(WARNING STRONG LANGUAGE USED IN (I hope) A NONOFFENSIVE WAY)

I think it's a bad idea.  My reasoning is probably not going to make sense to anybody but it does to me and that's all I care about. 

With movies there's a very specific formula type system in place about what rating a movie gets.  If it has more than X number of swear words it can't be PG.  If it has X amount of blood and guts or naked body parts it can't be PG-13, etc.  The formula goes all the way from G to NC-17.

With books I think that would be hard to do.  Why?  Because half of the story is made up in the reader's own mind.  The author provides the words, but the reader provides the images.  And what an image one word creates in one reader's mind is going to be different than the image in another reader's mind.  To one it might be acceptable, to the other it could be unacceptable.  And what would that do for the language of a book?

If you were reading a book set in the 1950s about how blacks were being treated by whites wouldn't you find it a little odd if a white character called a black character an "African-American" instead of a "nigger" or "negro".  You'd want the language to fit the story.  If it doesn't it would pull you right out of the story.  But if authors are writing books worried about the rating that might get put on their book (and you know they'd put it right on the cover page for all to see) you might end up with stories that are "politically correct" but are not true to the story itself.

One specific example for you.  My brother wanted desperately for me to read Lord Foul's Bane by Stephen R. Donaldson.  It's the first book in the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever series.  When I said I'd consider it he said "oh by the way there's a rape scene towards the beginning of the book".  What?  I wondered why my brother would read a book like that and why he'd recommend it.  I decided I wouldn't read it.  For three years he kept pestering me about it.  When I told him why I wouldn't he explained to me why the rape scene is important to the story.  He also said it wasn't graphic.  I eventually read the book.  And he was right.

Yes, the main character rapes someone and no it's not graphic but it is powerful.  And it's crucial to the story.  Had the author tried to change that scene (or take it out altogether) for a more pleasing rating not only would that book fail but the whole series would fail.  So much in the series is riding on that one scene not for what the character does but how he reacts to it emotionally and intellectually.  That is what the scene is about.  (SPOILER: Covenant rapes the girl because in the real world he is a leper and can't feel anything in his hands and feet.  When he gets magically transported to The Land he is cured with a mud that brings vitality (and a second sight) back into his body that he hasn't felt in so long.  This overwhelms him and causes him to rape his guide.)   The scene is not in the book to titalate or arouse anyone.  It's there for the emotional upheaval the character goes through and the whole series is riddled with the consequences of that one action.

I wouldn't want a negative rating on a book cover to keep me from reading a good a book.  And I wouldn't want an author to be thinking of what rating his work might receive while he's writing it.  And I wouldn't want him to change his writing to get a particular rating higher or lower for some type of status or notoriety from the general public.  I do think that more content warnings need to be given for books listed on line in places like Amazon or Barnes & Noble.  At a book store you can handle the book and spot read pages.  But buying online is buying blind.  I would support a website that listed books and some objectionable contant that people could puruse.  Something like:

Lord Foul's Bane by Stephen R. Donaldson
content: rape

To Kill a Mockingbird by Harper Lee
content: racism

Or something like that.  For me though most of the new books that I read have been recommended by someone who tells me up front if there's something there that I might not like.
Title: Re: Discuss
Post by: Blane_Firehand on April 09, 2008, 07:32:08 PM
I would agree that I want the writer to be thinking "How can I write a good book", rather than "How can I write a book that wont get banned from libraries and schools" or "How can I write a book that will have such a shocking rating that it creates attention". On the other hand, it would be nice to be forewarned about explicit (i.e. pornographic) scenes. This usually means details that aren't left to the reader's imaginations.

A general note on my thoughts about censorship. I agree with a statement that said "Censorship causes blindness." However, I do believe that there are some things that shouldn't be seen. But humans aren't perfect, and any censorship system designed by one is bound to be flawed. Thus I am against censorship in general.

I would separate age restrictions and censorship legal battles into two categories. Age restrictions would enforce the "younger people are too dumb to read older people books" thought. The public school I went through had a system where they rated books based on what grade they thought could handle them. I thought this was dumb, and scared kids from trying to push the boundaries of their reading abilities. When I talk about censorship legal battles, I'm thinking about all the hullabaloo about video games from idiots like Jack Thompson. I would hate to see something like that to happen to books (although I do believe that sometimes it has, but to a much smaller extent).
Title: Re: Discuss
Post by: dawncawley on April 09, 2008, 08:17:43 PM
Any book club that sells books, that I have looked into, has *sexually explicit, foul language* or some such thing, on books that have those things in them. Also, Amazon encourages readers to talk about and discuss the books   that they have listed, so perhaps you could browse those to see if anyone mentions that kind of thing.

My problem with the rating system for books is much like Pengwenn's. I don't want an author with a brilliant idea, or rich and wonderful story to tell, to be scared off, or encouraged to put more in, by what rating they will give the book later. If there is an adult  story that needs no foul language, or sex, or whatever to be told, the author shouldn't be encouraged to add that just so the book will reach the target audience. And by that same vein, I don't think an author should be afraid to be true to the story for the same reason.

Unfortunately, kids are growing up faster than we would like sometimes, and it is our job as parents to know what they read and to help them make those choices. The same goes for movies, and even if something has a higher rating, or a low one, I almost always screen before I let my children watch it. Just in case, you know what I mean? I don't rely on the government, or the movie rating system, to choose what my children watch on tv, or their movie watching. I decide for myself. And if there is a PG movie that I am alright with my five year old seeing, then he can watch it, or if there is a rated G movie that I don't think he would like, or might scare him in some parts, he doesn't watch that. The long and the short of it is, parents need to be proactive in their kids lives, and warnings on books would be one more step to taking all of the "guess work" out of choosing things for your kids, supposedly.

Basically, movies, games, music, and television are all rated now, so that we as parents don't have to worry about what our kids are watching, listening to, or playing, without having to screen them ourselves. For me, that doesn't really work. I very rarely let my kids watch something that is above their level, but only because I have watched it myself and seen the kind of show it is.  I also have kept them from watching some at their level, also because I have watched it and am not alright with it for my younger son, or would encourage my older son to be more aggressive toward his younger brother. He is easily influenced by television and movies, so I am careful. We, as parents or responsible adults, have to be responsible for what our children are doing, reading, listening to, and seeing.  We can't blame censorship, or the lack thereof, for the choices that we make with our kids.

Please, don't misunderstand, I know that this group is a very proactive group of parents. I meant that in a general term, not one that applied here. And I know, that as a community here, many of us come to ask advice on books and movies for our children. Having a place like this, or even a site that you can go to and look up a book to check the content, is more than enough for proactive parents. And I don't think that you could count on a non-proactive parent to even know what their child is reading, much less the rating on the book. I am sorry that sounds harsh, but if my sister was ever asked what kind of books her daughter read, she would be hard pressed to answer you. My niece is 15 and pregnant. I don't wonder why, I know my sister. And I don't think that putting ratings on books is going to stop that kind of parenting, or lack of it. And it wasn't reading books that got my niece pregnant either.
Title: Re: Discuss
Post by: readerMom on April 09, 2008, 08:40:44 PM
I think that books are like any other kind of media in that there are always going to be stuff that is objectionable to someone.  But with books we can't tell without expending a lot of time and in some cases seeing things that we would rather have avoided.  And it has become the norm for adult novels to have graphic content.  My sister had a good comment about that on her blog here: http://lajendi.typepad.com/lajendi/2008/03/pillars-of-slim.html 
And since the publishing industry seems to think all adults want this it is hard to know whose recommendations to take.
The book clubs do have those warnings, but they have a rather limited selections, IMHO
Title: Re: Discuss
Post by: WriterDan on April 09, 2008, 08:59:38 PM
I don't think that books should have ratings.  A website or something that lists content, etc might be nice for those that don't want to read book with offensive (sex, language, violence) material in them.  These content sites shouldn't be based on recommendations though, but on an arbitrary scale like the website kids-in-mind has for movies.  (Great site by the way...)  However, my guess as to why books don't have ratings, while these other forms of media do is simply because:  a picture is worth a thousand--or sometimes ten thousand--words.  Visual media tends to stay with people much more tightly.  For instance, it has been said that some mass murders started their descent to what they became by looking at porn.  You've never heard it said (at least I haven't) that someone attributes their becoming a mass murderer to reading too many Danielle Steele romance novels.  Eh.  My two cents.
Title: Re: Discuss
Post by: stacer on April 09, 2008, 09:38:20 PM
Quote
I found Alcatraz in the Children's section, not YA where I think it should go, for the same reason.

Actually, Alcatraz doesn't belong in the YA section because it is a middle grade novel. Shannon Hale's books are for young YA. A few years' difference, but a difference nonetheless.
Title: Re: Discuss
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on April 09, 2008, 10:16:42 PM
Our novels don't have age ratings, following industry practice, but our manga books all have ratings. It's something the bookstores like.

However, the exact same content may be deemed acceptable in a YA novel but unacceptable in a T-rated manga. The more visual a medium is, the less bookstores want to let you "get away with." Text leaves a lot more up to the imagination.
Title: Re: Discuss
Post by: 42 on April 10, 2008, 01:17:43 AM
Let me chime in for a bit.

Having a content rating is not censorship. If it is then every book critic in the industrial world is guilty of censorship. While it is likely that public schools may not allow some books with certain content ratings into their libraries; that may not always be the case.

To reiterate what just about everyone has said, people like to know what is in book before reading it. Content ratings could help with that.

Question, why does is matter how visual the medium is? Music has no visual elements, but it can have an explicit lyrics content rating.
Title: Re: Discuss
Post by: Blane_Firehand on April 10, 2008, 04:26:20 AM
I would say that visual mediums are more likely to stick in one's mind. Music, while not visual, also has tremendous ability to stick in one's mind. How much prose do you have memorized, compared to how much music you have memorized?

Content ratings affect media in a similar way to censorship. I know that there are movies that add or remove content in order to get the rating for their target audience. I believe a number of authors would do likewise if there was a national rating panel for books.
Title: Re: Discuss
Post by: readerMom on April 10, 2008, 08:47:16 PM
From what I've heard I think authors already do this.  I have heard stories of authors pressured to put more sex in their novels.  The only difference is now it is the publishing houses trying to boost sales, rather than authors trying to stay on or off of some rating list.  Authors are under as much pressure to conform to popular standards as any other media.  And the best ones are the best no matter what the popular standards are.
Title: Re: Discuss
Post by: 42 on April 11, 2008, 03:05:31 AM
An author has to think about who will be reading what he/she writes. Authors that work professionally sell to particular audiences that they understand well. They know what that audience whats to read and what that audience doesn't want to read.

It's kind of an elementary rule of writing: know your audience.

Authors get in trouble when they end up writing to the wrong audience.

So in a lot of ways, content ratings would help authors understand their audience better.

Quote
I would say that visual mediums are more likely to stick in one's mind. Music, while not visual, also has tremendous ability to stick in one's mind. How much prose do you have memorized, compared to how much music you have memorized?

Memorization works through three processes: repetition, emotional context, and connection to previously stored memory.
There is an argument that music or visuals help memorization, but that is yet to be proven. Memory is linked to cultural factors as well as individual learning styles and is greatly influenced by developmental and environmental effects. Personality may also play a role. So what sticks in one's mind is highly subjective.

One of my big arguments for rating systems comes from working with adults. Many adults who have been convicted of sexual crimes are aroused more quickly by music, visuals, or words that are suggestive than an unconvicted person (usually). When working with adults who suffer from sexual addictions it is important to help those adults gain control of their environment so they are less likely to commit other offenses. Content ratings can greatly improve the livelyhood for these individuals as they learn to more responsible. ANd for some content ratings will probably encourage worse behavior.

Basically, there is no base-line in human behavior to what a person (child or adult) can handle. Some people are very resilient and others are very fragile. There is an average and, of course, lots of outliers.
Title: Re: Discuss
Post by: Sigyn on April 11, 2008, 04:08:22 PM
I'm loving this discussion! It is so interesting to hear everyone's opinions. Please keep it coming.
Title: Re: Discuss
Post by: Skar on April 11, 2008, 05:22:34 PM
Quote
Basically, there is no base-line in human behavior to what a person (child or adult) can handle. Some people are very resilient and others are very fragile. There is an average and, of course, lots of outliers.

This very uncertainty informs a lot of the discussion on censorship ratings and so on.  I see two basic stances.  The first is the "we must protect the children" stance that is closely related to the "we must protect everyone" stance (which I find to be anathema.)  The second is the "we should inform" stance which boils down to making it easier for people to protect themselves.

Since you have that variety in what people, child or adult, can handle, the only person really capable of making the decision is the responsible guardian. (adults are there own guardian)  Therefore the only good reason for a ratings system is to inform with the intent of helping responsible adults make good decisions.

I think I'd be comfortable with a two tier system.  Still classify the books according to age group, YA, Adult, etc... to make it clear who the intended audience is.  Then add a second classification that is informed by the content.  I think that might cut down on the manipulation of content to achieve a particular rating, though not eliminate it entirely, and still provide a useful level of information.
Title: Re: Discuss
Post by: Parker on April 11, 2008, 06:05:43 PM
I don't really see what a ratings system would bring to literature. Ideally, maybe it would work, but I see too many pitfalls for censorship along the way. Look at the video game industry, for example. There are so many efforts by lawmakers to restrict who can buy what video game based on the ratings. None of these laws ever stick, but by the sheer amount of literature produced every year, who would be controlling these ratings? How would there be some method to the madness? Despite what you may believe, the ratings system for film is NOT prescribed--it's very much more fluid, and there's not a _____ amount of profanity=_____ rating equation or anything like that. Even if some sort of a ratings system were developed, how would it be enforced? Card kids who are trying to buy M books?

When I was working as a librarian in Orem, I'd have people come up to me and suggest this sort of thing quite a bit--asking if we as librarians would do it for the books in our library. No thanks. Librarians are all about freedom to information. Make informed decisions on what you read, watch or listen to--and make those decisions on your own, without needing to turn to some faceless "ratings board" to make them for you. Including a "content" listing wouldn't solve this problem any better for me. Who would determine what content means what? And how would this impact the way authors and publishers approach books? I dislike how the ratings system is played by Hollywood, and I'd hate to see that same mess come over to literature.

In the end, I love the fact that books are sort of self regulating. If you pick one up and don't like what you see, put it down. Turn the page. It's up to you. If you don't like a certain author, don't read him/her again. As far as "protecting" children goes, I don't see how a content guide or rating system would do that. They have access to anything/everything in a library or bookstore. Making a big deal out of a book for its content inevitably inspires kids to want to check it out.

That's all I have time to write right now.
Title: Re: Discuss
Post by: 42 on April 12, 2008, 07:05:29 AM
Becoming informed is a good solution other than the time it takes. Having to research a book before reading it is a great way to find out about the book. Course to be honest, a lot of entertainment reading isn't done for enlightenment or want to learn new ideas. It's to be entertained and people vary a lot on what they find entertaining. It's a lot easier and time saving to be able to exclude something because it doesn't have an appealing rating.

Also, ratings are fluid. They are also rather political entities. Course the general population places some faith in content ratings for movies in such because parts of the population feels it betters their lives. Much like money, which is also fluid. Money works by public trust and political power. Some people abuse that trust and political power. Some people also don't have a lot of faith in the current monetary system. And money does restrict freedom for a lot of people. Still as a society we aren't about to get rid of money because of the benefits it offers.

Title: Re: Discuss
Post by: Blane_Firehand on April 14, 2008, 05:26:03 PM
In the end, I love the fact that books are sort of self regulating. If you pick one up and don't like what you see, put it down. Turn the page. It's up to you. If you don't like a certain author, don't read him/her again.

Well said. There are a number of books/series I haven't finished. I decided I didn't like what I was reading, so I just stopped. In all honestly, the same can be said for a lot of media. There are movies I never finished and songs that I've abandoned because I decided the content wasn't for me.
Title: Re: Discuss
Post by: Loud_G on April 14, 2008, 08:48:30 PM
The biggest problem I see is the idea that the separation between adult movies/literature and kid's  movies/literature is the amount of graphic sex/violence/language you cram into it. The inclusion of these doesn't make the media more adult. It just makes it cruddy. I have yet to see a book/movie that was BETTER because of the inclusion of these elements. In fact most of the time it ruins a perfectly good plot.

For example, I am currently reading American Gods by Niel Gaiman. It is a very well done book, the only thing that keeps it from being an Excellent book, a flawless book, is the frequent use of the F-word and two graphic sex scene which I skipped. :P I rewrite the dialog in my head and it seems more natural and potent WITHOUT the cursing. And I have yet to feel like I missed a vital piece of info by skipping a sex scene.

This is why a ratings system would be nice for information purposes only. No regulation needed, as it is an fyi service only.


(Now there are sex scenes and there are sex scenes. As with the rape scene mentioned earlier. Inclusion of sex and description of sex are different. Description of anatomy and motions is unnecessary and detracts from story/plot.)
Title: Re: Discuss
Post by: readerMom on April 14, 2008, 08:54:37 PM
Quote
The biggest problem I see is the idea that the separation between adult movies/literature and kid's  movies/literature is the amount of graphic sex/violence/language you cram into it. The inclusion of these doesn't make the media more adult. It just makes it cruddy. I have yet to see a book/movie that was BETTER because of the inclusion of these elements. In fact most of the time it ruins a perfectly good plot.

YES!  Why does it make it adult to put those things in?  It is like putting fart jokes in children's shows, a cheap way to get a laugh or pull people in. 
Title: Re: Discuss
Post by: 42 on April 15, 2008, 02:59:33 AM
In the end, I love the fact that books are sort of self regulating. If you pick one up and don't like what you see, put it down. Turn the page. It's up to you. If you don't like a certain author, don't read him/her again.

Well said. There are a number of books/series I haven't finished. I decided I didn't like what I was reading, so I just stopped. In all honestly, the same can be said for a lot of media. There are movies I never finished and songs that I've abandoned because I decided the content wasn't for me.

Isn't that kind of backwards? I mean you don't want to read or watch something offensive but you stop reading or stop watching after it's already offended you? Once the damage is done you can't really go back. Putting down the book or stop watching the movie...does that really make things better?

It's kind of like drinking spoiled milk. You could drink some of it to see if it makes you sick or you could look on the experation date to see if it's gone bad.
Title: Re: Discuss
Post by: Sigyn on April 15, 2008, 06:29:41 PM
I completely agree with 42.  I have stopped reading books in the past but that doesn't mean I can scrub out the stuff that made me stop reading it in the first place. Yes, I can choose not to read anything else by that author, but I would have preferred to never have read anything by them in the first place.
Title: Re: Discuss
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on April 15, 2008, 10:07:25 PM
I think that's a really good point. I've definitely had to put down books I wished I'd never started.
Title: Re: Discuss
Post by: Nessa on April 16, 2008, 12:23:22 AM
When I write a review I try to include warnings when the book contains potentially offensive material. Sex, profanity, and gore in particular. It may make the book 'real' but they are images that are difficult to remove from your head once you've read them. These things make me feel a certain way that I don't like and there are others who are more sensitive than I am. It's fair enough to warn people when material contains this kind of content whether it's movies, games, or books, esp for parents who want a certain control over what their kids are exposed to.
Title: Re: Discuss
Post by: Skar on May 01, 2008, 08:43:11 PM
An article that seems to be germaine to this discussion. (http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=120941796678728800)
Title: Re: Discuss
Post by: readerMom on May 01, 2008, 09:57:03 PM
Quote
Attorneys for the booksellers claim the four-month-old law violates their constitutional right to free speech and criminalizes material that would otherwise not be considered sexually explicit, like textbooks, comics or magazines.

When did selling other's opinions become "free speech"?  Free commerce maybe, but it seems that the sacrosanct phrase "free speech" has expanded a LOT since 1787.  Complaining about the broadness of the law, or the unworkability of the law, I understand, but "free speech"?
Title: Re: Discuss
Post by: charity on May 02, 2008, 12:37:35 AM
When I write a review I try to include warnings when the book contains potentially offensive material. Sex, profanity, and gore in particular. It may make the book 'real' but they are images that are difficult to remove from your head once you've read them. These things make me feel a certain way that I don't like and there are others who are more sensitive than I am. It's fair enough to warn people when material contains this kind of content whether it's movies, games, or books, esp for parents who want a certain control over what their kids are exposed to.

This is what I love! Whenever I write a review on amazon (or SFBC) I make sure to mention if there is any sex, violence, or language. And I really like the SFBC warnings but I've found that what they consider 'violent' and 'explicit' is far above what I consider violent. Case in point:

My brother in law gave me the 'Deeds of Paksinarion' (I think I spelled that wrong) -it's the omnibus- and I didn't mind it until near the end there is this torture scene... descriptive, very, very descriptive and LONG. I think we're talking a full chapter at least. It was one of those moments where you've just invested over 1000 pages and you know something big is gonna happen in the center of the scene you don't want to be reading.

Anyway, after I finished the book I looked it up and SFBC did not have a warning on it. So, with my impressive skills of deduction, I came to the conclusion that I do not have any interest in knowing what's in the books that do have warnings on them.

I also have stopped reading Elizabeth Haydon. Her books have a lot of sex in them, but I kept on reading despite this because I was intrigued. Until I ran across a particularly foul scene in the last book that was out (she's since had another come out that I haven't bought).

And I've learned to avoid fantasy books with demons in them. I don't know why, but when there is a demon it seems as if authors feel that gives them free rein on all things evil and violent. I don't like that so I avoid it.

I guess what I'm saying is that I agree that experience is the best educator. Sometimes I wish that there were ratings like on movies, with a list of reasons why its rated that, in the order of precedence, because it would help me in not picking up garbage. But until that happens, I guess I'll just have to go with experience, reviews and friendly advice to see me through. Well okay, and maybe opening the book before I buy it.
Title: Re: Discuss
Post by: readerMom on May 07, 2008, 08:53:49 PM
Quote
My brother in law gave me the 'Deeds of Paksinarion' (I think I spelled that wrong) -it's the omnibus- and I didn't mind it until near the end there is this torture scene... descriptive, very, very descriptive and LONG. I think we're talking a full chapter at least. It was one of those moments where you've just invested over 1000 pages and you know something big is gonna happen in the center of the scene you don't want to be reading.
I just finished this book and I agree.  I could understand why it was there and all that, but it so didn't fit the rest of the book or help the reader in any sense.  It could have been much shorter and less graphicand still gotten the point across, but you knew it was important so you had to read it if you wanted to finish the rest of the book. I told my husband about it and he has given up about half-way through, though he had other issues with it as well. The title is Deed of Paksenarrion. :)
Title: Re: Discuss
Post by: charity on May 07, 2008, 09:02:59 PM
Yes, well, right there is an issue. Deed? For heaven's sake it's a huge book and has more than one 'Deed' going on. I really almost gave it up in the first few chapters when she was just learning to be a mercenary for page upon page! But I plugged along and then it got a little interesting when their Fort was captured. I still don't know how I feel about that book, some parts were exceptional. Like when she's alone in the world and goes to the priest friend of her's and offers all her possessions up to him then intends to go die. I cried!
And the lack of a love story just kills me. I like having some kind of romance going on or the book is rather dull for me.

But yes, to much torture.