Timewaster's Guide Archive
Local Authors => Brandon Sanderson => Topic started by: Whitefire on March 21, 2008, 08:31:32 PM
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Hi all!
I'm new here and I'm from an opposite part of the globe to most of you, so don't get mad if my English is not perfect :)
I've thought long on how we, ordinary mortals ;), could help Mr Brandon with the challenge of finishing A Memory of Light. And, well, maybe I have come up with something small. If you people are interested.
You see I think that finishing someone else's work is problematic, to say the least. Especially something so huge as Wheel of Time. Fans' expectations are as high as the Moon. Mr Brandon seems to be an excellent writer, but he's got his own style, his own ideas, his own sense of dramatic effect, suspension... And no matter what he does, he will not know the world of Wheel of Time as well as Robert Jordan did.
So I thought some of us hardcore fans of R.J's could help out a little bit, by making a list of things that are not finished in the WoT series after book eleven. Threads, plotlines, earlier prophecies and visions, ideas. Big, small. Not a wishlist, not guesses about the book--only things that were suggested or started in the novels so far, but are not finished. Just a picture "after book 11". Maybe it's too much to wish, but I'd like to think that maybe, before publishing A Memory of Light, Mr. Brandon would look at these posts and think: Yeah, yeah... Everybody knows that... This was supposed to be left out... This is plain stupid... But wait, this one's interesting...
I am aware that Mr. Brandon knows the books very well, and he's reading them right now, and most likely taking a lot of notes. I've read that he's got an excellent outline. I know he has information about what should be in the Memory of Light and even what should be left out. And that Harriet and others will edit it and help. Fine, fine! Great. But I still think that a list of "what's unfinished" would be helpful with such a vast creation like WoT, and that it is probably the only useful thing we can do, except encouraging him of course.
If this thread is tidy, concise (is that the word? :) and only if the posts and ideas come from people who have read all the books of WoT. So... If anyone wants to help... Wheel of Time SPOILERS below.
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Later edit because of some comments below:
This is not about telling the writer what to put in a book. This is supposed to clarify where WoT has gotten so far, not what should be next. I'd bet anything, BS is doing the same thing right now. Probably much better than we. It has nothing to do with what should be in the last book, what should be left out, or what new should be added which we do not know about. These are just some things which may be useful before we read AMOL. Unlikely, but possibly useful for BS, too. Plus, as you said, it's fun :)
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So I'll start with some obvious things, just so that they are not repeated over and over again.
1. Tarmon Gai Don - of course. However it looks like. Rand bleeding/dying/going insane; sun raising three times... This is big and kind of obvious, not really why I started this topic...
2. What happens to all the main characters, including the Forsaken?
3. Egwene has made a prophecy that the Seanchan will attack White Tower.
4. Thom, Mat and Noal decided to rescue Moiraine.
5. The division of the White Tower probably should be somehow resolved, as well as the relationship with asha'man.
6. What happens to the Reds? They are theoretically unnecessary after the cleansing of saidin, and there is this visit of theirs at the Black Tower at the end of KoD...
7. Dragon's eggs, gunpowder and cannons - it may be expected they will be used, which involves Mat.
8. What happened on Tremalking - will it matter?
9. Rand's triple (?) personality.
10. Who Killed Asmodean. :) Well, you said you will answer it, so just reminding ;D
I will add more later, or edit this post.
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I doubt Brandon really needs our help, but it will be interesting to talk about what we expect to see in the last book.
The aiel, what will happen to them? A remnant of a remnant is meant to survive, last we knew there were still thousands and thousands of them.
Lan, after the last battle will he re-found Malkier?
Who will take the sun throne? Elayne? Moiraine?
What's Galad going to do with those whitecloaks?
Will Gawyn rescue Egwene?
Who's beating Sheriam?
that'll do for now... I could go on for years...
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Sorry to say so, but fans shouldn't help out to tell him what to put in the book. What will be put in the book depends fully on the notes RJ left behind, what Harriet thinks and what BS thinks.
Jordan has always said that he will leave some story lines unfinished. What those will be we have to wait.
No writer should look to fans to say what should be in the book.
Although discussing what is left and what will be in the book is fun :)
So anyone thinks that Nynaeve will be pregnant? Or don't you think we will see that in the last book?
We still have Min's vision of a babe in the craddle holding a sword.
Since RJ said at Dragon Con that Mins visions are all about the future, it can't be Lan.
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Will someone rediscover flying? I asked that question once and got RAFO. Well, I would very much like to "read and find out".
Will Logain become someone greater? Min had all these viewings about him.
Is Verin bonded by the Three Oaths and why not :D
Will Alivia help Rand die, as Min saw it? "To live, you must die" - this was a prophecy to Rand after he asked Aelfinn how can he win Tarmon Gai'don and survive.
What about the gholam that is perhaps following Mat - or Luca?
Will Loial be there at Tarmon Gai'don, as he promised?
Will Harine became Mistress of the Ships?
Why most of the new Sitters from Salidar are so young?
What will become of the "contest for Perrin" between Berelain and Faile? (as if we didn't know :)
What will happen to Maighdin-Morgase and her hidden identity?
Are there any further plans for Masema?
What happened to Chiad and Bain, will Gaul find them?
Will Tam meet Rand? He's with Perrin after all.
What about the raised flag of Manetheren?
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Will someone rediscover flying? I asked that question once and got RAFO. Well, I would very much like to "read and find out".
RAFO doens't mean you will read it. It was his answer about things that might or might not happen, but he didn't want to spoil it.
I don't think we will see flying.
Will Harine became Mistress of the Ships?
Didn't Min have a vision? That it would take a few years, but she would become Mistress of the Ships? She had it about one of the sea folk. In that case this won't happen in the next book.
Why most of the new Sitters from Salidar are so young?
Scapegoats. If something goes wrong than they get the blame. I think RJ won't explain any more about that. :( (but it's not RJ anymore) who knows, but this is something we should figure out for ourselves.
Are there any further plans for Masema?
What happened to Chiad and Bain, will Gaul find them?
What about the raised flag of Manetheren?
These are all not main character things. Flag of Manetheren will have consequences for years, but most will happen after Tarmon Gai'don.
CHiad and Bain, I don't think we will get a happy ending at least not yet in the books. Even if Gaul finds them than they still have to serve for a year and one day.
Masema: i am sure he has more plans, but if that story line will be closed, I don't know. Perhaps Rand will take one look at him or kill him.
Is Verin bonded by the Three Oaths and why not.
From what I remember RJ saying, Verin is bonded. She still has the ageless look.
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By the way, If you want to read some reports about what RJ said and listen to some audio files from Dragon Con.
here is the link:
http://home.casema.nl/e.f.delaat/
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I didn't know about Verin, thanks. I must have missed it or forgot. I also changed my first post after your comments, to avoid misunderstanding.
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Is Verin bonded by the Three Oaths and why not.
From what I remember RJ saying, Verin is bonded. She still has the ageless look.
All of the Black Ajah are unbound but still retain the ageless look....
As for what will happen in the end...I think the biggest question is will Rand die. I believe the prophecy states that the Dragon is meant to die. So does that encompass the Dragon Reborn as well? Or does it mean that Lews Therin, who currently resides in Rands head, will finally be able to rest in peace?
Will Logain become someone greater? Min had all these viewings about him.
If/when Rand dies after Tarmon Gaidon I believe that Logain will be the king/ruler of the lands Rand unites before he dies....
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All of the Black Ajah are unbound but still retain the ageless look....
Actually, the Black Ajah are bound by a different set of Oaths, although I can't remember them right now. They are related to their service to the Dark Lord, however.
I would also like to find out almost everything listed above. My biggest question, though is what the hell Demondred has been doing throughout the whole series. Of all the foresaken, he is the one we know the least about.
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This is actually useful, so thanks for the topic. I'm aware of most of this, of course, but there's always the chance that I'll miss something. So, if there are questions you are looking to have answered in Book Twelve, go ahead and post them. I don't promise to answer them, and I probably will stay away from posting any further on the thread for fear of giving spoilers, but I WILL look and you might catch something. (Though, there are several websites where this exact sort of information is collected.)
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Brandon. All the best with the book. Enjoy the journey.
I'm sure this post will expand over time. This, and the threads in the general&structured forums on dragonmount will I'm sure be enough to cover all the 'missing' parts.
For myself I'm just waiting to RAFO! Though I'll be curious to see what comes of the Min/HeridFell's books subplot and just how Alivia is going to do her stuff!
Thanks for taking up the Challenge (Big C!).
Stephen
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A similar topic on Dragonmount:
http://forums.dragonmount.com/index.php/topic,29024.0.html
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Instead of naming all those the this that are unfinished I might as well note those things that we might see finished in aMoL, I base most of my conjectures in the prophecies, dreams and viewings throughout the series.
Let's go charachter by character:
Perrin and the broken crown.
Mat, Thom and Noel: They have to get to the tower of Genjei, rescue Moirane from Finnland, then Mat has to get his cannons in time for Tarmon Gaidon. At some point Mat loses and eye (give up half of the light of the world).
Those are the most linear subplots. Then things get intertwined, Rand has to learn whatever he has to learn from Cadsuane (to cry and laugh again...), then he has to "bind the nine moons to serve him" which means dealing with the Seanchan, but that should not happen before the Seanchan attack the White Tower which leads to all the Tower plots, the Tower has to be united and cleansed, then Rand shall show up there and "know the anger of the Amyrlin Seat" which should be more than a yelling from Egwene.
I guess that after that he should also take care of the Black Tower, after KoD we know that Taim is a darkfriend and has 100 Asha'man who will turn into Dreadlords for the last battle, at some point the BT shall be destroyed.
Well, this is my idea of what should happen. I'd like to also make two interesting points, Brandon Sanderson is known for his "Avalanche" at the last chapters of his books and he also notes in his posts that The Wheel of Time makes more sense when read in one go and not book by book, which leads me to conclude that we are in the presence of 300k+ words worth of "Brandon Avalanche" ;D
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then he has to "bind the nine moons to serve him" which means dealing with the Seanchan
I think that's pretty much been done. And remember, the Sean-chan say that Rand will bow to them. I think though that Mat's being married to their princess will take care of both sides of that (no matter which way is right.)
But the one I want explained is the bit that Perrin (or was it Mat?) saw in the "swirl of colors" that resolved into Rand not having his left hand. (Which would also explain what Elane felt as a shock, and the reason he's moving around so much.)
My thoughts is that Logane is going to take over after Tiem is killed and be the Mahail of the BT. Also, it says "THE DRAGON" will die. Who is the Dragon? It isn't Rand... It's Lustherin (or however you spell his name. I'm listening to the audio books so forgive me for spelling errors.) That would also fit Min's viewing of Rand and another man merging and one of them dieing. But that's just my thoughts on the solution...
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I'm telling you guys....
Okay lets assume Mat and Co. are successful in freeing Moraine. Well we all know the first thing she's going to do, head in whatever direction Rand is...
...and run strait into Cadsuane!
I'm telling you! Best confrontation ever!
Other than that I'm really interested to see if captivity has changed Faile at all, considering Perrin and Faile are by far my favorites.
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Hee hee... that is so beyond something I want to see!!! Expeically since Moraine will kick butt, and Rand trusts her more than any other. (And I like her more than any of the others. She's annoying like them, but we've seen she really does have a soft/nice side.)
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I agree. Rand taught Moiraine some humility, which all Aes Sedai sorely lack. One small thing I want to see is whether or not Gawyn kill Egwene. Min sees both possibilities when she views Gawyn. I bet it would shock a lot of people if Gawyn kills her, especially if it is while he is trying to kill Rand. It's a little bit cliche, but you can't write everything new, right?
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Well Minn did have a viewing about Rand being 2 people yet the same person and one of them would die and that Alivia would help him die.( Lews Therin will die and Rand will be reborn)
Min's viewing of Cadsuane was that Cadsuane would teach Rand and the Asha'man something they needed but would not like.
Viewing of Berelain was that she would fall for someone all in white.
Elayne will have twins of rands children while Aviendha have 4 of his at once all healthy tho Min saw something odd about that .
Logian will have glory tho I think it might be in the form off him becoming the male equal to the Amyrlin Seat. Also he will probably be the one to kill Taim and which will help him bring the black tower under his control
Mat and thom will rescue Moraine at the Tower of Ghenjei with the third person being Noal. Noal I believe is actually Jain Farstrider who has had his own dealings with the Aelfinn and Eelfinn and has been to the tower. Lanfear did die in that tower and became Cyndane tho losing some of her power .
I really hope that I don't see Tarmon Giadon end and then the book in 2 pages later hate it when nothing gets wrapped up or you never see the after effects of the story
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I agree. It's just like the Lord of the Rings. Killing Sauron was not the end. I actually loved the fact that the Hobbits had to save their own land after helping to save the rest of the world. Tarmon Gai'don should happen around two-thirds of the way through the book, so there is time to finish the story.
I forgot about Min viewing of Berelein. That must mean she falls for Galad.
My theory about the quads is that only two of them will be Rands. Now, whether or not the other two are Lews Therin's or Moridin's, that I can't speculate on.
I think Cadsuane already fulfilled that prophecy when she told Rand that Callandor was flawed, and could not be controlled unless used by a woman through a link, as the link prevents overdrawing of the power. Quite an ironic twist. I am more curious as to why Cadsuane knows this.
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I've always had the nightmare that Egwene had in the Ter'angreal during her raising stuck in my mind. As an Amyrlin who has never sworn the oaths now in the clutches of Elaida and her flock, I would really love to see if this was a ter'angreal induced Dreaming, or just some weirdness...
There is more, of course, that I'd like to see resolved, but I'd be content with this and Asmodean explained ;)
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I'm pretty sure the thing Cadusane is suppose to teach Rand is how to laugh again. The viewing Min had said Cadsuane had to teach both Rand and the Ashaman, and considering the fact that Cadsuane is already dead set on teaching him to laugh again without even knowing the prophesy. Coincidence?
I think she know the black tower will never be able to merge with the white in there current state, Rand and Taim taught them to be emotionless stones, 'weapons' they say in the books.
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http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2204133522
This is a facebook group for the Wheel of Time, and a fair bit of discussion/theorising/wondering etc goes on, including a couple of threads from a while back discussing what we have left to find out: http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=2204133522&topic=3136
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=2204133522&topic=2999
Liz
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I was thinking about it and remembered something else that we haven't seen yet. Min told Perrin/Rand that Perrin had to stick near him to save his life twice, or else there would be death. (I don't remember if it was both or just Rand who would die.) I don't think those have happened yet.
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One thing I'd really like resolved is the "Did Verin lie?" question. Seeing as how she said she was sent to Rand by Moiraine in The Great Hunt, yet Moiraine denied it. Also the question of whether Aes Sedai can write lies, seeing as how Moiraine's only confirmation as to that they can not was a nod, which is not, technically, speaking a lie...
I'm always poking around the Aes Sedai and lying bits, hope these get explained. Although there are more interesting and important things :(