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Local Authors => Brandon Sanderson => Topic started by: darxbane on February 29, 2008, 08:23:56 PM
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I thought this would be interesting to discuss. Does anyone think it is possible that they get their power from the metal spikes in their bodies? My needing to know about Hemalurgy appears to be bordering on obsession, but it seems to be the piece that will help make the whole puzzle come together. Any thoughts?
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Good question... It would help to know the whole process behind how inquisitors were made. Which is something we probably will find out about in HoA. All we know is that it has something to do with the spikes/hemalurgy and they become "synthetic" mistborn. However as to if they burn metals or not, I believe that they do. If my memory serves me correctly in the first book when Vin and Kelsier break into Kredik Shaw the inquistor facing Vin burns atium.
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I believe steel inquisitors do burn metals,
I think the hemelurgy (sp) helps them survive more than a normal human would maybe?
And as to the fact of them being made, I think it involves a lot of people dying, and personally I think the inquisitors are given the same metal Elend was given to make them mistborns.
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Hemalurgy is used to create Inquisitors, but does that mean that the Inquisitors use Hemalurgy? If they do, then it appears Hemalurgy is a cross between Feruchemy and Allomancy. They can push pull metals and maybe burn atium, but they appear also able to store health like a feruchemist. I believe (I'll have to check when I get home) that it mentions somewhere that the Inquisitors need to rest for long periods of time, presumably to store up health. The rod that is pulled from their backs that kills them probably stores this health. I can't wait for HoA, this speculating is killing me.
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I can't wait for HoA, this speculating is killing me.
I know, I can't wait either. I do love to figure things out, though. Too many Encyclopedia Brown books as a kid, I guess. You pose a good question, though. I would guess that someone who uses the abilities the metals give them would be called Hemallurgists, but it could be the other way around. EUOL was quite deliberately vague on this magic. It could just be to throw us off track (Evil, Hecubus! ;)) Marsh provides us with the best insight into what is gained by hemallurgy. He was just a Seeker before his conversion, now he has full Mistborn powers, along with incredibly healing abilities, and a voice controlling him. I will have to reread book one to check out the resting piece.
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i'm under the impression that the inquisitors do have to burn metals. however, it seems like a possibility that all of those spikes (i believe marsh said there were 11 in mb1) aren't made of the same metal. each spike could be a different allomantic metal. perhaps they burn their spikes as a source for their power. there isn't a single scene in which an inquisitor has to ingest metals in order to continue a fight. and i think kelsier or vin would have noticed if they carried metal on them inside those robes of theirs. but at the same time i doubt that its any kind of blend of feruchemy and allomancy. the lord ruler tried to wipe out the keepers for exactly that reason...he didn't want anyone else but him to have that mixture.
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That was part of why he was tyring to breeding them out, but wouldn't it be even more important to erase all knowledge of the prophecy? Being a Terrisman, he knew that as long as even one Keeper lived, his secret could be discovered. Or, in an even more twisted way, the Lord Ruler knew that the Well Spirit could manipulate the keepers into overthrowing him and finding a new hero who would release said Spirit. Wait a minute, isn't that EXACTLY what happened? :o
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I want to agree that the only reason that the Inquisitors have allomatic powers is because of the metal Vin gives Elend, and that Hemalurgy does something different, however, the place where that metal was found seemd like a very private and personal place for the lord ruler, and I don't think he would share it. Besides, the new Inquisitors are made at the conventical of Seran, aren't they?
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Yes, and they have the same allomantic powers. The place that Vin found was the Well in the prophecy. The Lord Ruler built his palace around it so he could protect it.
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I want to agree that the only reason that the Inquisitors have allomatic powers is because of the metal Vin gives Elend, and that Hemalurgy does something different, however, the place where that metal was found seemd like a very private and personal place for the lord ruler, and I don't think he would share it. Besides, the new Inquisitors are made at the conventical of Seran, aren't they?
Aha... that certainly would explain their Mistborn powers. Obviously the Lord Ruler made the Inquisitors "dominant", so in many ways, we need to be thinking how that works out. The 15th metal, the metal Elend got, seems a logical method.
Why didn't I think of that? :P
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I know that the place is the well of ascension, but the Lord Ruler also made modifications (the cans, the metal map with Statlin City circled). He could have also added the metal beads if he got them from somewhere else. Anyway, if he did use that metal to make inquisitors, then He must have removed it from the room, because I don't think he would brink the inquisitors down to where the well was. IT would have been something he kept hidden, from everyone, and he certainly wouldn't let an inquisitor down there, seeing as how aside from himself, they are the most powerful beings in the empire, wouldn't wan them getting any ideas now would he?
Another thing. Did the Lord Ruler have absolute control over the inquisitors, or did he force them to obey, or did they just obey hime because he was way more powerful than them.
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I'm sure you are right about him keeping that room secret, it's probably why he had that storage room in between; all that metal would hide the door to the Well room from the SI's and any Allomancers. The Steel Inquisitors are created from devout followers of the Lord Ruler's religion, so they see him as a God. However, just in case they got any bright ideas, he can easily kill them by removing the "lynch pin" spike in their back, and he could do it with Allomancy, as he was powerful enough to affect metals inside the body.
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I thought that too, but I was also wondering if the Lord Ruler used the power he took from the well of ascension to command them like Ruin did.
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i'm not so sure that the lord ruler would have kept the room completely secret. i just don't buy that he took the time to put all of thos cans down there (on shelves i think) all by himself. we're talking about a self-proclaimed god here. i think he would consider himself above that kind of labor. maybe he had groups of skaa do it and them just slaughtered them all?
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maybe he had groups of skaa do it and them just slaughtered them all?
that seems pretty logical to me. and for the record i don't think the lord ruler controlled them through the well. if that were the case he wouldn't have to be so picky about who he chose to become an inquisitor. we learn from Marsh's experience that they only choose the most devout and accomplished of those in the ministry.
i also seem to recall that Sazed on his trip to the conveticle of Seran sees all the bodies and some spikes and is under the impression that the inquisitors "swelled their ranks" or something along those lines. he's confused because inqs in the past have always been choosy about who they let join them. but no need to worry about that now since Ruin can apparently turn good men like Marsh into followers even if not of their own will.
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That could mean that the Lord Ruler was a shield of sorts. He could limit Ruin's influence on those he controlled. Once he died, there was nothing to prevent Ruin from taking over the Inq's. TLR might not have even known just how dangerous using Hemallurgy could be to him. Either that, or believed he was powerful enough to prevent it. He was nothing if not arrogant.
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Ruin definately gained more power when Vin killed the lord ruler: the mists came during the day and started killing, and the Inquisitors lost free will. Taht however makes me wonder, Zane's apparently been hearing the voice of "God" all his life and Vin's mother heard voices too when the Lord Ruler was still alive.
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i think maybe Ruin's influence was weaker when the well itself was weaker. it seemed to gain power as the well did rather than just with the lord ruler's death (though i'm sure it helped that he couldn't take the power for himself). i think Ruin just had limited influence and used it for things like Zane, Vin, and Vin's mother and possible very subtle manipulations of the inqs (he couldn't be too obvious or the lord ruler would just purge them).
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These are all good points, although I just realized that we have strayed away from the original point of this topic a little bit. I think we have unearthed more possible evidence that Hemallurgists don't need to burn metals. If we accept that Alendi used Hemallurgy to secure his power, and Allomancy was not yet known (or forgotten), then Alendi must have used his powers without burning metals, at least not in the same way an Allomancer does it.
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hmm...but would his powers have even been similar to an allomancer's? i don't think they would have been but i could be wrong (its not too uncommon). i think inqs are some kind of hybrid between hemallurgy and allomancy and they still have to burn metals. its just difficult to say what exactly a hemallurgist could do if he weren't so dependant upon allomancy like the ones we've seen in the modern era.
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It's all going to be speculation because there is too much we don't yet know. My logic goes towards balance. We know that Allomancers have to burn metals to use the power. This destroys the metal, so more is needed to continue. Feruchemists must store the power to be used when needed, and so must pay a price as well. I think someone dying to imbue power to a metal object that is then jammed into you is payment enough. The Inq's powers are great, and it seems that anyone can become like them. The most powerful magic has the highest cost. Push, Pull. Internal, External. Again this is speculation. I could be way off here.
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i suppose its possible. i mean the sacrifice could just alloy the inqs to burn the spikes without ever burning them away.
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It also says Inquisitors need to rest often, what does that have to do with things? Oh, and I am almost done me reread. I jsut got past the part where Elend meets up with the Terris refugees, and the man says the inquisitors took the bodies of the keepers with them, what could they be planning. It also says they were leading Koloss, which means they have figured out the secret like Vin did.
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Resting often.........let's just throw this out there. Maybe that is another side effect of their power. Maybe instead of burning metals, they use the energy of their own bodies. So using Hemallurgy is akin to running a marathon.
I think the Inquisitors knew all along how to control the Koloss. They probably acted as the Lord Ruler's field generals when the Koloss were summoned.
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That would make sense, Hemalrugy being like a Hybrid between Allomancy and Feruchemy. Think of this. The Inquisitors store attributes in thier spikes, but must rest to do it, but instead of storing feruchemical attributes, the store Allomantical powers.
I think the Lord Ruler probably would be able to control all the Koloss at once, he had that massive soothing, remember?
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Or, maybe it's the reverse. They suck the Allomantical powers out of the metals inside them and into their bodies. The main downfall of Allomancy is that the burner can't get the power in bursts like the feruchemists can (without duralumin that is) So that would explain why the Inquisitors are so powerful, they can suck the power out in short burst without Duralumin, and then they need to rest while they wait for their metals to "recharge," just like the Well that's controlling them. Wow what a brain burst! :o
Hemaglobin=blood
Metalurgy= metals
Hemalurgy= blood metals
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That is my point exactly.
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If I could add something to this thread... We know that the blood is produced by the marrow in the spine, right (or something like that, me and science we divorced decades ago) ? It's a living thing, too. It does it and that's all. Maybe the Inquisitors need to rest often so the metal could remix with their blood ? A rejuvenation rest, pretty much like feruchemy ? It would not need to use up the spikes they have since it would regenerate itself. That could also explain why, by pulling the eleventh spike out of the spine, the poor thing (sic) dies on the spot since it would disrupt the normal flow balance between blood and metals ?
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That is true, although all bones in the body have marrow. The pelvis is actually the biggest producer of red blood cells. I think that the spike severs the spinal cord when implanted. The spike then becomes a lynch pin. There's probably more to it than that, but it makes sens to me.
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That's what I think too, but perhaps there is something special about the back spike, after all that's the only spike Zane has isn't it?
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Zane's spike goes through his chest from front to back. The back spike on the inquisitors starts at the base of the neck and goes down vertically through the spine. I don't believe the bottom end sticks out.
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Oh, Ok, I guess I had that backwards.
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I think they do burn metals.
My source for this is atium.
We know that they can use atium. We also know that they don't use it all the time.
Logic seems to say that if they could use it, but they didn't use it all the time, then they had a very limited source of it, just as normal allomancers did.
I suppose if it was like feruchemy, then they could have a limited amount because they 'store it up' but that seems like a weak link to me, since everything else they can store (speed, strength, site, youth, etc) are attributes that people have. I don't see a parallel attribute that would grant you the same ability as atium.
Though, assuming this is true, what happens when they run out of steel/iron? Do they go 'blind'?
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We believe that the power is derived from the person. The metals act as a focus for their power, not as a source for it. This is why they need to rest so much.
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We believe that the power is derived from the person. The metals act as a focus for their power, not as a source for it. This is why they need to rest so much.
So they have the ability to use the same abilities that they would from burning all the allomantic metals, but rather than using different metals as a source, they simply drain from a 'common' source within themselves that simply drains their body?
I guess I can buy that, but it doesn't seem like that idea that "clicks" so well that you know it's true.
If it just made you tired (and you'd have to rest) then wouldn't the power of pewter basically give you unlimited ability since you can use pewter to make your body keep going even when it's drained?
I know that if what you describe is true, that the power of pewter would drain them, so they wouldn't get that benefit, but would about a Thug (or Mistborn) who was made into an Inquisitor? It's likely that they could still keep their ability to burn pewter. Come to think of it, doesn't Marsh say something about them liking him because he was a seeker? It seems like if they (at least some of the time) use allomancers for Inquisitors, that many of them would have the ability to burn metals to some extent.
Assuming Zane's spike was the same as an Inquisitors (there is all kinds of evidence implying this) then we know from Zane that having a spike doesn't remove your ability to burn metals.
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The thing that the Inquisitors use is something of a third magic system. Brandon has only vaguely referenced it in his annotations: it is called Hemalurgy. We don't exactly know what it does, but we have certainly tried here on the Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread (http://www.timewastersguide.com/forum/index.php?topic=5745.0).
I have theorized that, sort of like how the "body" burns metals in Allomancy, in Hemalurgy, the converse happens: the metals act as a sort of lightning-rod to "burn" the body's energy. That's the idea, distilled to the core. On page 7 of the Hemalurgy thread, I explain it much better (as long as I don't confuse you).
However, this not complete in any form. The creation of Inquisitors requires a lot of blood--we term them "blood sacrifices", generally. My theory doesn't even touch upon the relationship with Hemalurgy and Blood, so that is a major lapse. The truth is, we really don't know anything for certain about Hemalurgy. It's all logic and speculation, and at the time of theory, I had the inspiration to write about metal lightning-rods, essentially.
For all we know, the "thing" Hemalurgy burns is the blood itself (mind you, I say burn because it is a common Allomantic term. There is probably a better term Brandon would've used). Even if you use pewter, a crash will catch up with you. A pewter-dragging crash is probably even more acute for Inquisitors. Besides, pewter wouldn't re-create the blood, it just creates temporary strength. So, Inquisitors would be very powerful when they need to be, but they would also need to sleep a lot. Which is exactly what we see.
The second major lapse is the relationship with Allomancy and Hemalurgy. I can't even speculate to that one yet.
Anyways, I suggest you read up on that theory. I happen to like it, and even though it has flaws, I really like criticism. Small ideas often have a tendency to ferment in my brain into 3000-word theories, like this Hemalurgy one.
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Caffeine highs will do that. ;) To answer your question, Phaz, I believe Marsh mentions that they prefer Mistings because they already have an understanding of how Allomancy works. We as a group on this forum have theorized that it also means one less Misting to kill in order to gain that power. If all you had to do was kill 11 random people to make an Inquisitor, I don't believe the Lord Ruler would have told Kelsier how difficult it was.
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Caffeine highs will do that. ;) To answer your question, Phaz, I believe Marsh mentions that they prefer Mistings because they already have an understanding of how Allomancy works. We as a group on this forum have theorized that it also means one less Misting to kill in order to gain that power. If all you had to do was kill 11 random people to make an Inquisitor, I don't believe the Lord Ruler would have told Kelsier how difficult it was.
I've never been too sold on the idea of sacrificing Mistings, for the record. But I can't contradict it, so I'll go with it.
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That's right, fall into the party line! [hands cup of kool-aid to Chaos2651] :)
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It's scary when some random guy like me can come up with a perfectly good theory that SOUNDS good, and we hail it as being right only by the virtue of it not being wrong. For all I know, half the stuff I write is totally off. I hope not, though.
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I still the think the inquisitors burn metal, and used the 15th metal (Partum?) to gain allomatic abilities. I think Hemalugy amplifies normal abilities, for example, Alendi was not an Allomancer, yet most of us believe he used hemalurgy, even though He had no allomatic powers. So the face that hemalurgists have strong alloamncy is just because they were allomancers to start with.
Maybe hemalurgy ups all your abilities to the highest level they can go, making normal mistings into mistborn, strong men into juggernauts, etc.
And I think it has to be skaa blood for the inquisitors and hemalurgist we have seen so far, I think that because they were forced to make inquisitors without partum (at the conventicle) They were forced to find a different source of power for their hemalurgy to amplify, so they stole the bodies of the keepers, and plan to use their blood to make Feruchemy Hemalurgist inquisitors.
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Another bit of info that I literally just read from the annotations (Chapter 37 part 3)
A little bit of metal can go a long way, and you don't want to miss any. Now, this isn't as big a deal for the Inquisitors, who can use Allomancy themselves to see sources of metal a person might be hiding on their body.
He specifies they can use Allomancy. That to me, says that they do so in the same way, with the same rules. i.e. they burn the metals.
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My thoughts exactly, thank-you annotations!
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My thoughts exactly, thank-you annotations!
Exactly.
There is a ton of really good information hidden in them. I kind of wonder if Brandon put all that stuff in there on purpose, or let it slip out. The main one that comes to mind is the Ruin & Preservation thing, and some of them were written quite a while ago it seems.
Come to think of it, I wonder if he reads these threads cackling at all of our crazy ideas and bathing in the joy of knowing he's misled us so well and lured us right to where he wants us, giving us just enough clues to make us search endlessly at every little detail from everything he's ever written or said all the while knowing we'll never uncover the secrets until we buy the book.
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I know, I'm feeling a little like Sazed and twyndil, making all these notes on writings and texts, not knowing that I'll later find all I have believed to be false.
I just know he has some twists and turns planned that I can't even fathom.
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I know, I'm feeling a little like Sazed and twyndil, making all these notes on writings and texts, not knowing that I'll later find all I have believed to be false.
I just know he has some twists and turns planned that I can't even fathom.
Plus, when we get close to figuring something out he will probably also play the roll of Ruin and go through and edit our posts to modify the original point we were making so people who read them are thrown off the trail.
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OR change the books as we reread them, maybe that's why chaos keeps forgetting about Zane, EUOL/Ruin doesn't want him to know too much ;D.
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OR change the books as we reread them, maybe that's why chaos keeps forgetting about Zane, EUOL/Ruin doesn't want him to know too much ;D.
Sweet, I have a new scapegoat to rant on! Currently, my favorite is Shiro Tagachi, who is the demon who lives in my dialup modem. Surely only an evil maniacal force like that would cause dialup to suddenly disconnect for no rhyme or reason.
And obviously, Ruin is just playing up my natural dislike for Zane for dramatic effect! I hate him, too :P.
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The inquisitors could possibly be dead in the first place, having there entire body fueled by allomancy. Being that allomancy and fueromancy have the right properties to give health, power, senses, memory etc. what I figured when reading mistborn 2, when marsh finally turned on sazed, was that they were a controlled abomination of the Lord Rulers creation, Something the power of the well changed over time. A corpse I guess you could say controlled by the power of the well, and the spikes, were his way of controlling them.could it be that they are hard to come by because it is a corpse possed by the deepness or the power of the well? could the deepness or the power actually have had soldiers, not just mist? And once the lord ruler bound the power he enslaved those, which became the inquisitors? It is believed in the books that the Lord Ruler created them, the Kandra and the Koloss, But it also says that the hero of ages would set the power free from the well and change that world. A lie that had been changed through lore, memory and writings not on steel by the power of the well.They were also one of the only religions that remained, other than that of the obligators. I'm not trying to make the inquisitors sound like dawn of the dead, or that I am even close to right on this, it was just one of the possibility's I figured up after finishing the book. It does however have Vin finding a way to control the lord rulers creation's, the kandra and the koloss, but not the inquisitors, I figure in book 3 they will be the soldiers of whatever power was released from the well, but it looks like only Brandon and the possibly the mist spirit actually have any idea of whats going on with it, cause i know this theory has flaws. But i did imagine them looking something like this with spikes in there eyes(http://www.flatrock.org.nz/topics/wellington/assets/orc.jpg)
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Nice picture, the inquisitors could be dead, I've never thought about that before, it would explain wh ythe become so emotionless, however there are several points that go against this: they still feel pain, the transition goes slowly, marsh was still himself after he got the spikes, it took a while for him to change to be like the other inquisitors, also they weren;t completely controlled by the lord ruler, as illustrated by Marsh's treachery. I think than in book 3 Vin will learn to control the inquisitors like ruin does, because I believe he does it through soothing as well.
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I think than in book 3 Vin will learn to control the inquisitors like ruin does, because I believe he does it through soothing as well.
I disagree. I think that ruin rather steadily tries to convince them that what he wants them to do is what they should do. This is supported by the fact that Zane never really loses control of himself, just hears God's voice. In fact, in MB2, he specifically mentions that he knows he is insane, he just refuses to act irrationally because of it.
MB2, Chapter 18, Page 164
He found insanity no excuse, however, for irrational behavior. Some men were blind, others had poor tempers. Still others heard voices. it was all the same, in the end. A man was defined not by his flaws, but by how he overcame them.
Now if Zane hears the voice of Ruin all the time because of his one spike, and the amount of influence Ruin has is proportional to the amount of metal in your body (as supported by Zane cutting himself and Ruin's voice getting weaker), then the Inquisitors should constantly be hearing Ruins voice. If you hear the same thing enough times, no matter what it is and what you originally think about it, it starts to change you.
So, long story short, it makes more sense that the inquisitors are not being soothed, just constantly hearing a voice.
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I agree that their always hearing voices, but what I think is that the well spirit uses some form of soothing to broadcast those voices. Remember, soothing isn't complete control (exxcept in the case of kandra and koloss), it's just suggestion to the emotional state, isn't Ruin's voice changing the emotional state of his victims? I think he's using this voice to make suggestions like emotional allomancy, wear down hisd "victims," resistance, and then control them like kandra and koloss. whether or not Vin is eventually able to do this is questionable, it was just a random thought. The reason I thought mabye is because the koloss have that nail, and some have said she controls them through the nail, then I thought, maybe she could control hemalurgists throught their spikes. Like I said, random thought.
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Inquisitors have to face two different agravating factors : the constant hearing of the well's will for them (i.e. destruction, killing), the constant pain from the eleven spikes. Now only the pain would be sufficient to bend to the well's will. Have you ever seen someone really suffer ? Once, a friend told me that he could face anything, no problem, but the pain he was enduring was just too much. He was ready to do anything to make it stop. Think of yourself sick, so sick that you are only a massive pain and that someone tells you "kill him". Well, you just can't think no more. It's called brain washing by the way and that does exist even today. You might fight it at the beginning, but you cannot fight it forever and you end up bending. It has nothing to do with emotions, it's only physical. No need of soothing or rioting. You are just enraged with pain.
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This is what I was trying to get at. Eventually the Inquisitors just lose all will to resist and become "mini-Ruins." They run around and do exactly what he wants them to.
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you're right of course, I know what you are saying, and I agree. What I'm trying to say, si the same way allomancers soothe and riot others emotions is the same way ruin is broadcasting his voice to the inquisitors. I don't know how to make this more clear. Is that undertandable now?
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I am fairly sure I understand what you are trying to say, but I still disagree with it. You are saying basically that ruin doesn't outright soothe people, he just kind of gently does it so that they don't realize and are more likely to do what he wants.
My biggest problem with this is Zane. From what we have seen, the only communication he receives from God are the voices. He never mentions feeling any pressure on his emotions. He could have missed it, true, but you would think he would recognize what was being done considering that he himself can do it.
This could also be due to the fact that there are fewer spikes in Zane than in Inquisitors.
There is little evidence that this is the case, however, and I usually just stick with what the books say unless I can see a good reason not to. So while what you suggest is possible, I don't find it probable.
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Then again we must also remember that in truth, the Lord Ruler did not actually defeat or should I say kill the deepness or the ruin. From what I gather, He really just held it at bay, Imprisoned it you could say. So we really have no idea what power it could wield, Yes the primary power in the Final Empire is Allomancy, But that power is wielded by humans. What they are facing now is something completely different. It is said in the book many time's that the Lord Ruler was a divine creature, But when Vin finally killed him, we learned that he was just a man fueled by the same power and as Vin and Sazed. What I am saying is that possibly the power the ruin wields is not allomancy, something else yet. From a story stand point, Vin has fought pretty much every power the world can throw at her, So where does she stand. Another book having her fight yet another allomantic power is not what I would write as an author. She is now facing the most powerful enemy in the land, one that even the Lord Ruler didn't truly kill, So it is very hard to say whether or not the ruin uses allomancy or not, I would assume that it does in some way, but to affect those that it can enslave. I believe it's true power is going to be something else, But I would assume it uses allomancy in some way or another, and I still believe that the Inquisitors are going to be its primary henchmen.
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My argument as to why Ruin's control over the Inquisitors is more than suggestion is based on Marsh's fight with Sazed. Sazed directly asks him why he is doing what he is doing, and Marsh says "I dont know". This leads me to believe that he is controlled more directly. He is not fully aware of his actions or motivations.
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The inquisitors could possibly be dead in the first place...
I know Comatose already pretty much refuted this, but I have one more reason they're not dead and controled by TLR: they clearly can think independently, when they scheme to overthrow the obligators, and also when they torture Reen and disagree about whether he is lying. If they were all completely controlled by a single power (either TLR or Ruin), it doesn't make sense that they would have either individual ambition, or differences of opinion among themselves.
In saying this, I'm not disagreeing with the idea that after TLR's death, they become more completely controlled by Ruin. We see very little of Inquisitors in MB2, so it's very hard to tell what they're doing, why, and under whose control. But I still don't think they're actually dead.
On another tangent, is there such a thing as a female Inquisitor? If so, why haven't we seen any? If not, why not?
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I agree with your post sarah. In response to your question, we haven't seen any female inquisitors, but we (most likely) have seen female hemalurgists, which means that theoretically there could be female inquisitors. The reason there aren't any is likely due to gender discrimination.
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Can we be sure that the Inquisitors motivations for taking over the ministry weren't influenced by Ruin? It seems all too convenient that the one person in the world who had a shot at killing the Lord Ruler was the same person who could prove the Inq's should take over? They brought TLR's killer right to him. Besides that, they so conveniently chose Marsh, over all the other Acolytes that arrived with him, to become a new Inq. Like the prophecies themselves, some things can be a little too perfect.
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Interesting point, Darxbane. I agree that the confluence of circumstances seems a bit too convenient - perhaps you're right that some or all of those events were influenced by Ruin. However, I think that's a different thing than saying the Inquisitors are totally controlled by Ruin, i.e. dead, which was what I was arguing against.
In response to your question, we haven't seen any female inquisitors, but we (most likely) have seen female hemalurgists, which means that theoretically there could be female inquisitors. The reason there aren't any is likely due to gender discrimination.
Who's discriminating? The Inquistors, because they don't want women amongst them? Or Sanderson, because the Inqs are just too brutal and disgusting to be thought of as female?
I think it's interesting that even as the fantasy genre is developing more heroines, the worst of the bad guys are generally still guys. Of course there are exceptions - Shelob and the female Forsaken come to mind - but I don't know of any female orcs or Uruk-Hai or Black Riders or grolm. It's like monsters are just naturally thought of as male.
Not that I'm objecting to this tendency, I simply find it worth discussing.
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There are no female Inquisitors because even the Lord Ruler couldn't control an Inquisitor with PMS. :D
In all seriousness, the Lord Ruler is a might makes right person, so obviously he would require what he, being a man, considered the superior sex. How surprised he must have been to be killed by a girl. Not even a woman, but a girl! If only real life was that poetic.
I don't believe that the Inq's are dead. they are simply under Ruin's spell.
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There are no female Inquisitors because even the Lord Ruler couldn't control an Inquisitor with PMS. :D
Are you proposing a fourth magic system here, more powerful than the others? :)
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Possibly. It could just be the maximum potential of Hemalurgy. ;) There's actually an Anime movie out there where the main Heroine gains godlike powers after she gets pregnant. It's called Wicked City. It's a bit graphic, but it has a cool storyline.
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I believe that Ruin's power was greatly amplified after the Lord Ruler died. The Inquisitors would then not necessarily be under its control during the Lord Ruler's time, but after, which is exactly what we see. Kar does not mention any voices when we see his viewpoint.
Besides, why would the Lord Ruler create Hemalurgical beings like the Inquisitors if he knew that Ruin could control them so easily with Hemalurgy? The Lord Ruler likes control: he wouldn't relinquish it to Ruin so easily.
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In regards to what Sarah said about female villains, One only has to look at the Drow society in the forgotten realms books to understand that even female's can be just as brutal as men, in that series even more so.
But I do agree with Darxbane over the Lord Ruler Seeing men as the superior sex. One thing that I Enjoy about Mr. Sanderson's books so much, is how much Class struggle plays apart in his stories. So along with class struggle, one would assume Gender would be involved as well.
As far as the Inq's go though, I think He really did a good job at keeping us guessing as to what he is going to do next, seeing all of the ideas on this post really shows how much we all love the books and how imaginative a reader base Mr. Sanderson has. That alone would make me as an author really give is a fireball to talk about.
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In regards to what Sarah said about female villains, One only has to look at the Drow society in the forgotten realms books to understand that even female's can be just as brutal as men, in that series even more so.
But I do agree with Darxbane over the Lord Ruler Seeing men as the superior sex. One thing that I Enjoy about Mr. Sanderson's books so much, is how much Class struggle plays apart in his stories. So along with class struggle, one would assume Gender would be involved as well.
Excellent points. I haven't read the forgotten realms series, so I'll take your word for it. I guess what I meant was that there are some female villains - Shan Elariel, Semirhage, Mohgedien, Galina - who can be very cruel, sadistic, and ruthless but who still look like humans. But we don't as often see female monsters - ugly, deformed, twisted bodies like trollocs or orcs or Inquisitors.
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Yeah! We need more twisted nasty chicks in fantasy! Why is it always the males that get spikes through their eyes? There are female Trollocs, but they don't fight. We are straying off topic, but I don't think there are too many more points we can make on this thread, so I don't mind
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* hands a kleenex to poor Darxbane *
Well... we have a female vilain that could have been maybe some kind of hemalurgist in Vin's mom. Try to picture her very ugly - Vin looks like her father ;D
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Small consolation, although Greek mythology had plenty of evil female monsters in it. It's hard to top Medusa and the Sirens (why does that sound like a singing group?) :P
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Unless I'm remembering completely wrong, it kind of is a singing group. I just don't know how well they chose their lead singer.....
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wasn't Whitney Houston one of the sirens? ???
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;D Well of course ! The Sirens were the very favorite of female singers group in the very old days. It is said that a certain Ulysse played a trick to be able to listen to them for free !
But this topic is getting way off...
So, do Inquisitors need to burn metals ?
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Here's another piece:
MB1 p60
Nothing I've learned about Allomancy has ever provided an explanation for how those creatures keep living
Kell says that when he was first talking with Vin, in reference to the spikes in their eyes.
I think there are 2 significant pieces of information from this. The first, is that it implies that they do have a power beyond allomancy, which we now know of (Hemalurgy).
The second, is that I think he's implying that they use Allomancy. Yes, he might not know for sure, but he does seem to know quite a bit about them, and he has seen them fight multiple times. It's possible he says this because he has seen them burn metals.
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Well, I think Kel is just having a natural hangup due to the same lack of knowledge we had when the quote was uttered. It was Marsh who first discovered about hemalurgy within the group (and was still fairly tight lipped about it), because something tells me that the Inqis would have kept a tight lid on that, if just to preserve the sheer mystery of the occurrence.
This thread really should be part of the hemalurgy one, as it's essentially dealing with all the same stuff... W/e.
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I've changed my stance. Inquisitors use allomancy. The previously mentioned quote did it, along with this one. I was never really sure to begin with. However, I think that Inquisitors use hemalurgy to do other things (like heal fast) that we haven't seen yet. Anyway, Brandon's MB2 annotations, chapter twelve:
By the way, you probably remember form book one the way that Inquisitors see. They have such a subtle touch with Steel and Iron, and their lines, that they can see via the trace metals in everyone's bodies and in the objects around them.
The thing is, any Allomancer with access to iron or steel could learn to do this. Some have figured it out, in the past, but in current times, nobody--at least, nobody the heroes know--is aware of this. Except, of course, for Marsh.
And he chose not to share it.
So this actually implies that the inquisitors DO burn steel and/or iron to see. From what I gathered, Marsh could share this with anyone who could burn steel or iron. Implying that he burns steel and iron to know how to do it in the first place.
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Using the powers of Allomancy does not mean that they actually ingest and burn metals. Vin had to draw upon the mists just to see the lines coming from TLR's bracelets. She didn't suddenly go into "Matrix vision" where she saw the blue lines from every speck of metal around her. the Inq's see the trace metals in glass, concrete, and living things easily and constantly. It would take a tremendous amount of duralumin flared steel/iron, which would force them to constantly ingest steel and/or iron just to keep their sight going, and they wouldn't be in control of Pushing and Pulling because it would always be at full flare. Besides, there is nothing in the books that says it could even be done. It is much more likely that the power comes from the metal implanted into their bodies
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I think that they do burn metals, but that the fact they constantly see metal in everything is merely further backing for my theory about how hemallurgy works. The same way that metalminds each allow a feruchemist to store different attributes, I think that hemallurgy grants passive abilities that correspond to the metal's attribute (Pewter would grant inhuman strength and resilience, Iron and Steel would allow you to see metals [most likely pushing metals and pulling metals], tin would give you constantly enhanced senses, etc.)
That accounted, they would still burn metals to get further effects and to use the active powers.
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Read the quote again, darx, and you see that Brandon says ANY allomancer with access to steel or iron could learn how if they tried. That means little weak mistings who can only burn iron as well as full mistborn. It's not in the power, it's in the control they have over their metal. There is some trick to it. This is why vin doesn't go into matrix vision as you called it. She could see the lines to the bracers because she was powerful enough to pull on them, the blood didn't block it anymore. Seeing trace metals as the inquisitors do would not require power, just skill.
Avalon, your theory makes sense to me, though I still feel it is too similar to allomancy and feruchemy. Brandon has emphasizes multiple times that hemalurgy is its own magic system.
I did just notice though....Brandon says earlier in his MB1 annotations that only very powerful allomancers could pull on metals inside someone's body. This seems to conflict with the quote I gave. Any ideas on how they can both be true? Or did Brandon mess up (yes, I know, blasphemy)?
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Maybe the more skilled you are with steel/iron, the finer particles of metal you can see, but to actually affect them (at least ones in someone's body) you have to be very strongl. Or maybe Brandon just meant powerful in the sense that they would have to be supremely skilled in order to do so.
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Maybe you have to close your eyes and block out the other light in order to see the tinier metal lines.
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Or like what Tensoon meant when he was speaking to Vin telling her that she was like Allomancers of old, just as strong. That would saveguard Brandon's integrity and erase all conflictual (regarding this question) sayings.
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I was just thinking the same thing, Ookla. They are more acutely aware of the blue lines because they are blind. Sorry Andrew, I didn't read that closely enough. I agree that the metals give them powers, but I don't think they have to ingest additional metals to use those powers. The energy expended comes from the body, which is why they have to rest so much.