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Local Authors => Brandon Sanderson => Topic started by: Natalie Perkins on September 11, 2007, 02:06:59 AM

Title: Hoid??
Post by: Natalie Perkins on September 11, 2007, 02:06:59 AM
What's the deal with that name? It popped up in Mistborn: The Final Empire about the informant that Kelsier visits. And it's also in Dragonsteel. And I swear to god I saw it some where in Elantris (I'll have to reread it again to be sure) but is this just a coincidence? Or on purpose?
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Shrain on September 11, 2007, 02:57:51 AM
LOL. Isn't "Hoid" the old guy Kel visits?

Elantris was filled with the hopelessly insane, pitiful "Hoed" or living dead. Raoden becomes one, remember? But he pulls out of it. What a guy.

Don't know about Dragonsteel. I started reading the version that *was* Brandon's undergrad thesis. But then I got my hands on a copy of an Elantris manuscript from when it was his master's thesis. So I never finished Dragonsteel...
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Pemberley on September 11, 2007, 03:38:34 AM
Hummm.....

Shrain is actually wrong.  That's Hoed she's thinking of.  However, if you look around, you may find Hoid somewhere else in Elantris.

--Brandon on his wife's computer.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on September 11, 2007, 04:12:04 AM
Are you being purposefully vague?

He's in Warbreaker too, acting much the same as a lightweaver in Dragonsteel, though without the magic. I noticed this before, but assumed it was just an idea you had in Warbreaker and then decided to take the concept and put it into a different book—I assumed that would mean you'd take it out of Warbreaker in the next edit, but it's still there.

Is Hoid just an easter egg, or are you implying some kind of literal connection between these books?
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Shrain on September 11, 2007, 08:13:03 PM
Hummm.....

Shrain is actually wrong.  That's Hoed she's thinking of.  However, if you look around, you may find Hoid somewhere else in Elantris.

--Brandon on his wife's computer.
Umm, but that's exactly what I said: "Elantris was filled with the hopelessly insane, pitiful 'Hoed' or living dead. Raoden becomes one, remember? But he pulls out of it. What a guy. "

I just couldn't remember if there was any "Hoid" in Mistborn.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: EUOL on September 11, 2007, 08:18:15 PM
My apologies, Shrain.  What I meant to say was that the word "Hoed" is indeed in the book.  However, this isn't related to the Hoid phenomenon. 

Ookla:  The official stance from the management is that while people are encouraged to discuss Brandon's Books, Dragonsteel Entertainment has no official comment on the Hoid phenomenon--if, indeed, it exists.  Sorry, I tried to get them to release something more definitive, but that's all I'm allowed to say at this point. 
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on September 11, 2007, 09:43:19 PM
There's Always Another Secret™.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Tage on September 12, 2007, 01:08:23 AM
As an unaffiliated party with insider information, I will go ahead and confirm that there has been someone named Hoid in all three of Brandon's three published fantasy novels through Tor.

Now, as for why and what that means, I'll leave that up for public speculation.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on September 12, 2007, 01:11:23 AM
"A Hoid" is an anagram for "Idaho." Coincidence? I think not.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Shi on September 12, 2007, 04:40:33 AM
Wow, is this some kind of messed up running joke or something? My brother has one, but it has to do with tortilla chips in movies.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Shrain on September 12, 2007, 08:09:17 PM
As an unaffiliated party with insider information, I will go ahead and confirm that there has been someone named Hoid in all three of Brandon's three published fantasy novels through Tor.

Now, as for why and what that means, I'll leave that up for public speculation.
Awww, shoot. Tage, you're such a tease!

Wow, is this some kind of messed up running joke or something?
Yeah, that goes without saying, I think. Anything involving an Evil Undead Overlord is bound to be messed up.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: happyman on November 17, 2008, 08:36:14 PM
I know this is thread necromancy, but I was rereading Elantris yesterday, and I thought I'd be a little less vague than the earlier posters.

In Elantris, Hoid is the name of the leader of the beggars(?) that Sarene hires to bring supplies to the Elantrians after she "heals" and leaves.  In MB1, Hoid is the name of an informant that Kell visits in order to find out if House Renoux is attracting suspicion.  In Warbreaker, Hoid is the storyteller than gives us a significant chunk of exposi--- I mean, that tells Siri what she wants to know about history.

Something is definitely up.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Comatose on November 17, 2008, 10:39:05 PM
Vin also plans to go see Hoid in Hero of Ages, but she decides against it because it feels wrong or something.
All three Hoids have things in commmon, but they are not the same person.  First of all, they all depend on their tongues for their trades: informant, beggar, story teller.  Hoid the informant and hoid the beggar are both lower down in the class system, I'm not sure where the storyteller fits, but i'm guessing he's a little bit higher up since he goes to the court of gods.  i'm still trying to find out more connections.
Does anyone remember why Vin didn't want to go meet Hoid in Hero of Ages?
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on November 17, 2008, 10:50:14 PM
I think they are the same person. How that works, I do not know, but I expect Brandon has something planned.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: little wilson on November 17, 2008, 10:56:52 PM
Does anyone remember why Vin didn't want to go meet Hoid in Hero of Ages?

This is what it says in the book:
"She soon located a figure that wasn't sleeping like the others, but sitting quietly in the light ashfall. Her ears picked out a faint sound. The man was humming to himself, as the instructions said that he might be doing.
Vin hesitated.
She couldn't decide what it was, but something bothered her about the situation. It wasn't right. She didn't stop to think, she simply turned and jumped away." (p. 187 US Hardcover)

So basically, it was her instincts. Makes me wonder why. I'm curious what would've happened if she had've met with him....

And I'm not sure what to think about him. I think it would be REALLY interesting if they were the same person...But I almost don't see how they could be, seeing as they're all on different planets....unless he DOES have mad planet-hopping skills, as others have suggested.....It's sad Brandon RAFO's all questions on Hoid now.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Skar on November 17, 2008, 11:37:24 PM
I have been authorized to reveal that Hoid is, in fact, a connection to a being known in some circles as "Noid" or "The Noid."
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Shadowkiller on November 17, 2008, 11:54:09 PM
I wonder if Hoid is an acronym for something.   For instance, Hero of Infinite Dimensions.   Or perhaps Hitchhiker of Information Dissemination.   I am trying to be a little funny but at the same time maybe its a valid idea.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on November 18, 2008, 12:10:52 AM
Wouldn't it be sadder if Brandon just answered the questions? When a mystery has so little information to go on like this, I think it's better just to wonder and wait it out until Brandon reveals the information in his books in the way of his choosing.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: little wilson on November 18, 2008, 12:15:39 AM
True. And yet, if he revealed just a LITTLE bit more information, this discussion could blow to all new proportions. That could be fun.

No, when I said it's sad he's RAFO-ing everything now, I didn't mean it would be better if he just told us straight up every mystery about Hoid. That would be lame. There's a reason reading is so much fun....

And perhaps shadowkiller is onto something. An acronym is a plausible explanation. I like the first one--Hero of Infinite Dimensions. Has a nice ring to it.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: KindaChang on November 18, 2008, 08:25:44 AM
Or maybe, much as Dirk Pitt keeps meeting a mysterious stranger in Clive Cussler's novels, Hoid is a real someone that would exist outside of time and space in regards to the novels.  ;)
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: darxbane on November 18, 2008, 05:07:06 PM
Why wouldn't he?  I love how this is setting up, although I could be completely off-target.  At the very least, Brandon created a character to play as himself if the movies are ever made  :D

As for why Hoid spooks Vin; It seemed obvious to me that he was just too carefree for someone who's job is so dangerous.  not to mention the huge army just outside the gates.  Someone like that is either insane or is quite capable of protecting himself.  Either way, that person is dangerous.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: little wilson on November 18, 2008, 05:13:22 PM
Or she could've sensed that he had more power than a man like him should...Assuming he IS the same guy, he's got to have some pretty sweet magic.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: GreenMonsta on November 18, 2008, 05:58:01 PM
Yeah the only problem with that is Vin didn't really have the abiltiy to gage someones power. That is unless they were burning metals. I mean if allomancers did then they wouldnt be able to hide unless there was always a smoker around.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Shadowkiller on November 18, 2008, 06:05:02 PM
I don't think we ever got confirmation that the guy was Hoid, did we?   I always figured that Vin could smell the trap and just avoided it.   Then again, Vin was spiked, so maybe it was Ruin telling her not to go there just like she felt the mists had changed and were her enemy during book 3.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: little wilson on November 18, 2008, 06:15:10 PM
Oh I didn't think of that--that Vin was spiked. (Sorry, I would quote but the computer I'm on is being stupid).  That could very well have affected the situation.

When I first read that part, I thought it was a trap, too. That would explain why Vin turned around. But now I do think it was Hoid. The man was in the square Cett had told her he'd be in, plus he was whistling, which is what Cett told her he'd probably be doing....It would be way too coincidental for it to have been a trap for her. There wasn't really any way for the people in Fadrex to find out that it was Vin coming, and she was coming that night, and that Cett would've told her about that particular informant.

And I wasn't saying it would be her metals giving away his power. I mean intuition and instincts. Vin runs on both of those--more instincts, though. It could've just been that she sensed (not with allomancy, but simple skills that most humans have) that something was not quite right about the person whistling. Or it could've been Ruin whispering to her. I like that theory too.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: melbatoast on November 18, 2008, 07:04:00 PM
At the very least, Brandon created a character to play as himself if the movies are ever made  :D


I like this idea. I will picture Brandon as Hoid from now on  :D
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on November 18, 2008, 08:02:06 PM
Earlier in this thread, Brandon said the humming guy who Vin avoided was Hoid.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Reaves on November 18, 2008, 08:25:20 PM
Wouldn't it be sadder if Brandon just answered the questions? When a mystery has so little information to go on like this, I think it's better just to wonder and wait it out until Brandon reveals the information in his books in the way of his choosing.

I don't know...if he just mentioned it a little bit, talked about him for a few seconds then moved onto to something else, it would even better. Hemalurgy wasn't even mentioned until partway through book 3, and look at the countless discussions it has spawned.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Miyabi on November 18, 2008, 08:55:39 PM
Perhaps Brandon knows someone with the initials H.O.I.D. and it is simply a cameo. ha ah.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: happyman on November 19, 2008, 12:09:50 AM
All three Hoids have things in commmon, but they are not the same person.  First of all, they all depend on their tongues for their trades: informant, beggar, story teller.  Hoid the informant and hoid the beggar are both lower down in the class system, I'm not sure where the storyteller fits, but i'm guessing he's a little bit higher up since he goes to the court of gods.  i'm still trying to find out more connections.

One other commonality I thought I'd mention.

Both MB1 and Elantris mention that Hoid must be very sharp in order to keep up in his respective businesses.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on November 19, 2008, 12:39:37 AM
hoid backwards is dioh. Some varieties of Spanish pronounce word-final /s/ as [h]. In Spanish, dios means God.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Mellington the loony Gold Misting on November 19, 2008, 06:18:13 AM
LMAO

I think all the Hoids are aspects of one...either that or evidence that these are all parallel worlds and some elements remain the same in their evolution (certain people will exist and, without the meddling of Shards, have certain talents - Hoid is obviously very well-spoken and good at maintaining an act).
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: happyman on November 21, 2008, 04:44:18 PM
In Warbreaker, Siri asked Hoid where he learned his method of storytelling and he answers

Quote
“Thank you,” Siri said quietly. “It was good of you to speak of it. Tell me, where did
you lean such an. . .unusual method of storytelling?”

Hoid looked up, smiling. “I learned it many, many years ago from a man who didn’t
know who he was, your majesty. It was a distant place where two lands meet and gods have
died. But that is unimportant.”

I can't make head or tail of his description, having read only Elantris, Mistborn and Warbreaker.  Surely it is relevant, though?
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Shadowkiller on November 21, 2008, 05:02:43 PM
Sounds like Scadrial to me.   Gods have definitely died there.   As for two lands meeting, it could be a metaphor for the change the world took or any number of other metaphors for two lands meeting.   Or it could have something to do with the land after Sazed fixed it as we don't know what it looks like.   As for people who don't know who they are(male), it could be a metaphor for Sazed before he became God.   Or perhaps for Marsh after Sazed fixed the world.   Or some random person we don't know about(How good was Kelsier at telling stories?).   I haven't gotten to Elantris nor Warbreaker yet so I can't pull examples from them.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: little wilson on November 21, 2008, 05:10:10 PM
I noticed that too, and I'm just like "who?"....I imagine Brandon will probably tie this in in a later series, but by then we'll have forgotten about this, and so we'll have to go BACK and read the books, find where it is, and be like "hey, so THAT'S what he meant....

And I don't think it's Scadrial. That would be too easy....Even if it WAS, I seriously doubt it would be Sazed. Hoid never met Sazed. And yes, I am saying that because the meeting never took place in the book. I think Brandon would've put that important meeting in the book--even if the reader wouldn't think it was important. The only male Hoid met was Kell, and it's not him.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on November 21, 2008, 05:45:29 PM
Ha ha ha ha ha... I don't think I read that version of Warbreaker. Oh yeah, that's a major clue.

Gods died in Mistborn. But the "where two lands meet" doesn't fit, and I'm sure it's not a metaphor. Brandon has written one book so far about a place where two lands meet: Dragonsteel. Recently Brandon decided that some of Dragonsteel's plot is being put into Way of Kings instead—but he decided this after the most recent draft of Warbreaker. What he was planning at the time he wrote Hoid's comment to Siri may not even end up being what eventually happens in a book—but Brandon is sure to have something spectacular up his sleeve.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: little wilson on November 21, 2008, 09:00:48 PM
Ya know, that's funny....Because when I said he would probably tie this in in a later series, I was thinking Way of Kings.....
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: happyman on November 22, 2008, 04:52:33 AM
Scandriel seems unlikely.  I considered it and rejected it.  The "two lands" bit doesn't work and the unusual method of storytelling makes no appearance in Mistborn.  Only the gods dieing fits, and that's not enough, I think.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Natalie Perkins on November 26, 2008, 03:31:50 AM
I found Hoid in Liar, and he was a master storyteller but with magic powers.
Coincidence? I think not.

Quote
“Thank you,” Siri said quietly. “It was good of you to speak of it. Tell me, where did
you lean such an. . .unusual method of storytelling?”

Hoid looked up, smiling. “I learned it many, many years ago from a man who didn’t
know who he was, your majesty. It was a distant place where two lands meet and gods have
died. But that is unimportant.”

Gods died in Mistborn. But the "where two lands meet" doesn't fit, and I'm sure it's not a metaphor. Brandon has written one book so far about a place where two lands meet: Dragonsteel.

And Gods died in Dragonsteel too.
When Midius, Hoid's apprentice, is telling a story to the public and talking about the path he mentions that the gods die.
Also, the storytellers in Dragonsteel use dirt and sand
and Hoid in Warbeaker used colored sand.

In Warbreaker, Hoid constantly repeats that he only tells stories. Why is it necessary?

And it's clearly evident that Hoid is special in Liar:
"Something is going on, Midius thought.  But Hoid couldn’t have known of it.  He’d been gone from Partinel for decades when I met him.  We had no contact with the city during my training, save for the assassin.
And yet. . .he said that the city needed me.  That it was urgent.

And it had to do with the summons.  The reason that the Bear of Partinel had sent for, then killed, Hoid the jesk.  Why?"

"The boy’s claims about Teraxos were, obviously, lies.  Theus’s son was more than skilled enough to deal with an old man and his storytelling apprentice. 
And yet, Hoid had proven surprising on more than one occasion"

"Theus felt a chill.  He knows.  The identity of the assassin.  Of course Hoid would know."
--
Ha ha ha ha ha... I don't think I read that version of Warbreaker. Oh yeah, that's a major clue.
I believe it's the most recent version available. Or the most recent I have on my computer, and I'm pretty good about downloading the most recent ones.

I'll have to wait to scan through mistborn but can anyone tell me around where in Elantris Hoid appears? I know he's a beggar but I'm looking for a specific chapter because I've read Elantris only about twice while Mistborn, numerous. I want to overanalyze the little information available to us?
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Reaves on November 26, 2008, 04:19:08 AM
Your first quote insinuates that not all stories of the worlds are happening at the same time, as I somewhat suspected. And...a man who didn't know who he was? Did he perhaps learn it from an incarnated Shard?

and also, tecnically gods have died in Warbreaker too, if you count the returned as gods. But I'm guessing he meant real gods.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on November 26, 2008, 06:51:21 AM
I was assuming that The Liar of Partinel took place later in Hoid's life than Warbreaker. Mostly because the storytelling apparently hadn't been developed (by him?) into a magic system yet in Warbreaker.

Hoid is mentioned on page 445 of the Elantris hardback. (I found it using Amazon's search inside feature.)
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Reaves on November 26, 2008, 03:18:41 PM
Haven't read Liar  :'(
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Natalie Perkins on November 26, 2008, 10:47:16 PM
Hoid is mentioned on page 445 of the Elantris hardback. (I found it using Amazon's search inside feature.)
Thank you.
I'm gonna overanalyze it and then report back with the nonsense theories I'll come up with.

I was assuming that The Liar of Partinel took place later in Hoid's life than Warbreaker. Mostly because the storytelling apparently hadn't been developed (by him?) into a magic system yet in Warbreaker.
Which could quite possibly mean that he learned the story telling somewhere else and incorporated it into a magic system used in Liar? Hmmm... I'll have to think on this. Damn I wish I had more than the first 6 chapters.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: JoeC on November 27, 2008, 01:03:17 AM
I think it's great that all of Brandon's books are connected. The Hoid and the shards of adonalsium (sp?) phenomenon has got everyone talking about it. Definitely a true testament to Brandon's writing skills. Stephen King did practically the same thing with his Dark Tower series. Connecting pretty much all his books, with some recurring characters.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on November 27, 2008, 07:06:24 AM
Haven't read Liar  :'(
Don't worry. Brandon isn't happy with how it turned out—he tried discovery-writing it (like Stephen King) and it just didn't work. To fix the book, he'll have to drastically rewrite it from right after the first couple chapters, and he's too busy and unenthusiastic about it to do that very soon.

That's one thing about Brandon's writing philosophy. He's not afraid to trash something that just doesn't work or that can be done better somewhere else. Without that philosophy, we wouldn't have Mistborn.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: little wilson on November 30, 2008, 01:57:35 AM
I tried to get Brandon to say something about Hoid today, when I saw him at the signing. He said he'd answer any question we had, and then I said "Even about Hoid?" and he said he's not at liberty to speak about the Hoid phenomenon....He wouldn't even say if they were the same guy. He just said "there's a character named Hoid in Elantris. There's a character named Hoid in Mistborn, and the Well of Ascension, and Hero of Ages...." He continued to name the books he's in, but he wouldn't say if it was all the same person.....I also asked about the possible Dragonsteel reference. He didn't say anything about that either. I knew he wouldn't, but...I still kind of hoped.

Question: Where is Hoid in Well of Ascension? I knew he was in FE and HoA, but I don't remember him in WoA. Yet, I know Brandon said he was in that, too.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Reaves on November 30, 2008, 04:37:15 AM
Possessed of the inability to neither confirm nor deny...Kshh/STATIC/Kssh...not at liberty to say...Kssh/STATIC/Kssh...cannot comment on so-called "Hoid Phenomenon"...Kssh/STATIC/Kssh...
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: happyman on December 01, 2008, 09:40:46 PM
I tried to get Brandon to say something about Hoid today, when I saw him at the signing. He said he'd answer any question we had, and then I said "Even about Hoid?" and he said he's not at liberty to speak about the Hoid phenomenon....He wouldn't even say if they were the same guy. He just said "there's a character named Hoid in Elantris. There's a character named Hoid in Mistborn, and the Well of Ascension, and Hero of Ages...." He continued to name the books he's in, but he wouldn't say if it was all the same person.....I also asked about the possible Dragonsteel reference. He didn't say anything about that either. I knew he wouldn't, but...I still kind of hoped.

Question: Where is Hoid in Well of Ascension? I knew he was in FE and HoA, but I don't remember him in WoA. Yet, I know Brandon said he was in that, too.

The Warbreaker reference strongly suggests he's been around a bit and seen things (to put it mildly).  My money is on him being the same character in all of them---somehow.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: little wilson on December 01, 2008, 10:09:30 PM
I also think he's the same person. And actually, when I'd asked Brandon, I'd forgotten that he never had confirmed or denied that it was the same....I was just positive that it was because of all the talk on here, and because of that Warbreaker reference.....And now Brandon's response has me wondering if I was right in that assumption. I still think there's only one Hoid, but Brandon's answer was a little too smooth for me to be certain. He didn't even think about the response, or hesitate in the slightest while answering....although that very well could have been just because he's used that answer so much that it just flows....
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: darxbane on December 01, 2008, 11:32:15 PM
I think he's the same person also.  I think he gave a little away in the HOA spoiler thread.  He has mentioned that all his worlds are somehow connected.  It will be interesting to see where this goes.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: haroldthesage on December 04, 2008, 09:01:39 PM
This is an interesting thought, I will now go back and read through and read Elantris and Warbreaker...
And now my absolutely bogus idea: Hoid... is a Homeward Bounder. Kudos to those who recognize my obscure reference without looking it up.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: CthulhuKefka on December 05, 2008, 01:29:00 AM
This is an interesting thought, I will now go back and read through and read Elantris and Warbreaker...
And now my absolutely bogus idea: Hoid... is a Homeward Bounder. Kudos to those who recognize my obscure reference without looking it up.

That Disney movie?  ;)

Oh, and I don't know if it's been mentioned, but does anyone think Hoid might make an appearance in the third Alcatraz book? I know it doesn't seem to be set in the same universe, but when Quenten spoke in Spook Slang, I don't think it was just an easter egg. But then again, it might just be my overactive imagination at work again.  :D
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on December 05, 2008, 01:57:11 AM
Homeward Bounder: from a Susan Cooper book? (Not looking it up.)
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: haroldthesage on December 05, 2008, 02:18:45 AM
That Disney movie?  ;)

Nope, however a movie based on a book by the same author was translated by Disney, also not Susan Cooper.

Also, perhaps Hoid will be in some way related to Adonasium...
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Pink Bunkadoo on December 05, 2008, 03:12:36 AM
Homeward Bounder: from a Susan Cooper book? (Not looking it up.)

Diana Wynne Jones, I think?
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Cosmic_AC on December 05, 2008, 03:18:50 AM
Yeah I think that's what she called the weird book about the kid that's magically forced to hop planets until he finds his own...

I liked Howl's Moving Castle and the Chrestomanci series a lot better, myself...  And of course the Miyazaki version of Howl's Moving Castle is pure awesome, but mainly because of how good Diana Wynne Jones was.  "Castle in the Air" was almost as good, but I doubt we'll see an anime version of that because the title is way too close to that of another Miyazaki film, which is inspired by (but not based on) Gulliver's Travels.

But that's assuming you're right.  I'm not gonna claim credit on this because I actually forgot I'd even read a book by that name until you mentioned DWJ.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: haroldthesage on December 05, 2008, 03:47:23 AM
Bingo
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Cosmic_AC on December 05, 2008, 04:02:14 AM
Bingo

Yay for you!
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: happyman on December 05, 2008, 04:40:38 PM
Incidentally, for MB2, chapter 50 annotation, Brandon as good as admits that the Warbreaker world and Scandriel are in the same universe.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on December 05, 2008, 05:54:43 PM
Homeward Bounder: from a Susan Cooper book? (Not looking it up.)

Diana Wynne Jones, I think?
Oh, right. You were the one who recommended the book to me. For some reason I get the two of them confused.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Pink Bunkadoo on December 05, 2008, 09:45:34 PM
I liked Homeward Bounders a lot.  Haven't read it for a few years.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Plasman on December 06, 2008, 12:20:03 AM
Personally i am under the impression that Hoid is a title carried by a group of people and not one specific person because in my questioning of brandon at the signing i went to, i asked about Hoid and we discussed all the different books he's in. And then i said, "Yeah, but then he dies at the beginning of Liar of Partinel." To which Brandon replied, "Well, at least someone they called Hoid died..."  I took that to mean that more than one person are called Hoid.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Reaves on December 06, 2008, 01:30:31 AM
Hmm. Perhaps its a secret society...Hoid could be an acronym.

Is/are  he/they ever described in the books?
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: little wilson on December 06, 2008, 01:42:32 AM
I think he's described a bit in Warbreaker.....And I think Kell describes him in Mistborn. I don't know about Elantris, though. Still have to finish that one...
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Natalie Perkins on December 07, 2008, 06:20:59 PM
Incidentally, for MB2, chapter 50 annotation, Brandon as good as admits that the Warbreaker world and Scandriel are in the same universe.

I'm not sure I agree with you, I think he's just saying it was the inspiration for the religion in Warbreaker.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: haroldthesage on December 08, 2008, 05:43:31 AM
Personally i am under the impression that Hoid is a title carried by a group of people and not one specific person because in my questioning of brandon at the signing i went to, i asked about Hoid and we discussed all the different books he's in. And then i said, "Yeah, but then he dies at the beginning of Liar of Partinel." To which Brandon replied, "Well, at least someone they called Hoid died..."  I took that to mean that more than one person are called Hoid.

That's what I thought but I couldn't figure out how to work that in with Adonalsium, so my current theory is that Hoid is all that's left of Adonalsium, that his powers some how became fractured and left him and all he has left is the ability to jump to worlds that have a shard on them.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Clomer on December 09, 2008, 07:58:20 PM
So what will happen to this discussion if Hoid (or someone by that name) appears in AMoL?
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: haroldthesage on December 09, 2008, 08:27:02 PM
So what will happen to this discussion if Hoid (or someone by that name) appears in AMoL?

It will implode in a vibrant display of all our logic failing
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on December 09, 2008, 09:03:37 PM
I think that if Brandon does put any easter eggs in AMoL, they will be Wheel of Time easter eggs, not Brandon Sanderson easter eggs. He isn't writing it to write a Brandon Sanderson book but a Wheel of Time book.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Reaves on December 10, 2008, 04:36:13 AM
So, during my reread of The Hero of Ages, I came across some interesting tidbits.

I am going to do my best to present this as a reasoned and rational theory, though I know that anyone who makes it to my thesis statement will burst out laughing.

Now, on page 189, we see Vin having an interesting conversation with a man named Slowswift, who I now suspect to be Hoid. Vin was supposed to meet a man named Hoid later on, but backed out of it for reasons unexplained. She never saw him.

Slowswift asks,
Quote
Do you enjoy stories, young lady?

From there the conversation goes as follows:
Quote
What kind of stories?
"The bst kind, of course," slowswift said, tapping his book. "The kind about monsters and myths. Longtales, some call them-..."
We are talking about a specific genre of book here-fantasy.
Quote
"I don't have much time for stories," Vin said.
         "Seems that fewer and fewer people do, these days." A canopy kept off the ash, but he seemed unconcerned about the mists. "It makes me wonder what is so alluring about the real world that gives them all such a fetish for it..."
Then the conversation turns to Cett, and his poetry.
Quote
To him, everything had to be gritty and 'real,' even his poetry. Seems like an attitude with which you'd agree."
          Vin shrugged, sitting in the indicated chair. "I suppose."
          "I find that ironic in a way you shall never understand," the old man said, smiling.

Now, why is this ironic? To me, the answer is obvious: Vin prefers real life, but she is living in a fantasy. We'll leave this train of thought for now.

      So, theoretically all of Brandon's books, minus Alcatraz, exist in the same world. What are recurring themes of these worlds? Shards of Adonalsium, for one. Magic. Hoid has been appearing all over the place.
       The answer I am looking for is far more simple: the recurring theme is that Brandon wrote them.


        Now, who is Hoid? A mysterious traveler recurring throughout all of these books. What is he? An informant. A storyteller.
         A wordsmith?


       That's right. I think Brandon wrote himself into his books as a character.
       As a man named Hoid.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: hoid354 on December 10, 2008, 05:02:25 AM
  "Castle in the Air" was almost as good, but I doubt we'll see an anime version of that because the title is way too close to that of another Miyazaki film, which is inspired by (but not based on) Gulliver's Travels.


Hey, i have the dvd of "Castle in the Air", but i lost the disc. :'(

Anyway... i also think that Hoid is a title. Unless Brandon is a fan of that Homeward Bounder book and decided to add an obscure easter egg that almost nobody would understand.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on December 10, 2008, 07:01:50 AM
Well. Brandon said in the spoiler thread that Slowswift is meant to represent Tolkien. So it's not entirely impossible that Hoid is meant to represent himself. But I don't personally think Hoid is Brandon. I think that we're just going to have to wait until we see more about him in the future before we can make any theories that scratch the surface of who Hoid is.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: happyman on December 10, 2008, 05:06:46 PM
The main issue I have with Hoid being Brandon is that it seems to break the, I dunno, the dignity of the cosmology being developed.  It would be a serious fourth-wall breaking, rather than the subtle poking present in the discussion of Slowswift.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Stu on December 13, 2008, 07:13:39 PM
POSSIBLE ELANTRIS AND MISTBORN SPOILERS

I agree that hoid is the same character.  Also, seeing how Brandon Sanderson mentioned that all of the worlds are somehow connected then hoid could just be travelling from world to world.  For instance both the Elantris world and the Mistborn world take place on one continent.  The two worlds could also be connected by the crack in the land in the Elantris world, because when Vin spun the world the movement of the spin and the new heat from the sun could have cracked the line.  The crack also could have occured when Sazed, or even the lord ruler ws rearranging the world; if it was Sazed who caused the crack then it would explain why there isn't mist or a constant ashfall.  Before the crack the people of elantris could have been holding off both.  The two books would be on the same planet, but different continents. 

Also, if Hoid has the ability to jump planets, as we presume, what if he also had the power to control people.  then he could have a diferent puppet on each world, all under the name hoid.  So instead of being on the planets all the time he would just have to jump to the planet once and take control of someone.

Or we could even use a Matrix theme and say that they are all in their subconciousness' living everyday lives with people around them when really they are all asleep, and Hoid is the only one not asleep, and he is controlling them, and also "apart" of the worlds making sure everything runs smoothly and no one suspects the truth.  he would therefore be an illusion in all of their "worlds".
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: zas678 on December 13, 2008, 07:39:09 PM
Except wouldn't Elantris mention 1,000 years of Ash and Mists?

Plus the fact that Brandon Sanderson said that the only two shards on Scadrial are Ruin and Preservation.
If Elantris and Mistborn were on the same world, where would the power of the Dor come from?

Zas
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Stu on December 13, 2008, 08:04:39 PM
Except wouldn't Elantris mention 1,000 years of Ash and Mists?

Plus the fact that Brandon Sanderson said that the only two shards on Scadrial are Ruin and Preservation.
If Elantris and Mistborn were on the same world, where would the power of the Dor come from?

Zas
The people of elantris could have halted it.

Dor could have been introduced, possibly by Hoid.  Also, I would say that the shards end up taking a form, Ruin and Preservarion both had thought and bodies, so Dor might not be a shard or the shard itself is not on the planet.  Or it couldnt be true, but Brandon Sanderson did say: "There is life on the other pole.  I will RAFO any other questions about it, though."  When asked about life on the other side of the planet.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Raphael on December 13, 2008, 11:16:51 PM
But I think they were placed there by TLR.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Tage on December 14, 2008, 12:55:00 AM
Wow, it's been a long time since I looked at this thread. It's also been a while since Brandon explained his Unified Brandon Sanderson Metaverse Theory, but from what I remember...

Elantris, Dragonsteel, and Mistborn take place on different worlds, though they are in the same universe.
Hoid is the same person in all the books. It's not a title or group or anything, it's actually the same guy.

Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: zas678 on December 14, 2008, 01:42:29 AM
Now we have something to go on

Since Hoid is one person, that probably means that either he has a lot of power, a awesome vehicle, or some kind of link to the Shards


Zas
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: CthulhuKefka on December 14, 2008, 01:46:33 AM
SPOILERS











What if Hoid is what Sazed becomes at the end of HoA, but from a different planet? Hoid was perhaps once just a regular man, but then he touched a shard and become a God? Or maybe he is something less, but still ultimately powerful? Maybe a watcher, or a trainer or new holders of the Shards? I dunno, I'm just throwing random things out there.  :D
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: hoid354 on December 14, 2008, 05:51:59 PM
Wow, it's been a long time since I looked at this thread. It's also been a while since Brandon explained his Unified Brandon Sanderson Metaverse Theory, but from what I remember...

Elantris, Dragonsteel, and Mistborn take place on different worlds, though they are in the same universe.
Hoid is the same person in all the books. It's not a title or group or anything, it's actually the same guy.


How could it be the same person? I remember someone saying (either in this thread or the mistborn spoiler thread) that somebody named Hoid dies in the beginning of Liar of Partinel.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: little wilson on December 14, 2008, 07:37:17 PM
Liar of Partinel would be later in Hoid's life then the others. And I'm not completely sure about the Hoid being the same guy. As far as I can tell (from others and when I talked to him) Brandon's always been very vague on that particular point, saying that someone named Hoid died, but never coming out and saying they're the same person....But I'm 99.9% sure he's said they're all in the same universe (at least the ones with Hoid....).
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Natalie Perkins on December 17, 2008, 01:04:14 AM
And I'm not completely sure about the Hoid being the same guy.

Tage just clarified that it's the same guy. And why not? A group or anything else seems like a stretch to me.

How could it be the same person? I remember someone saying (either in this thread or the mistborn spoiler thread) that somebody named Hoid dies in the beginning of Liar of Partinel.

And if he really is a planet jumper, is it not possible that he jumps planets by dying on one and being reborn on another? Completely retaining his previous knowledge of course.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Reaves on December 17, 2008, 01:11:36 AM
I'm just about positive that Brandon mentioned Hoid on Writing Excuses this time around. He didn't actually say anything about him, but...

Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: little wilson on December 17, 2008, 02:19:24 AM
Tage just clarified that it's the same guy. And why not? A group or anything else seems like a stretch to me.

Yeah, I know. My main point is that he says Brandon said that a while ago. Maybe that's the case. I'm just saying that lately Brandon has been RAFOing all things Hoid--at least things like this having to do with whether it's the same person or not. I'm more inclined to think it is, but as far as I know, Brandon hasn't said they are.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: happyman on December 17, 2008, 07:24:14 PM
I still think his answer to Siri in Warbreaker about where he learned his storytelling technique should be strong evidence for the planet-jumping capability.  The description is foreign to anything I have read, although I am not familiar with Dragonsteel or Liar.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: little wilson on December 17, 2008, 07:40:53 PM
I agree. I definitely don't think he's referring to anything on the Warbreaker world, so therefore he can planet-hop. And I think Natalie's idea about his planet-hopping (that he dies and is reborn with the same memories on a different planet) makes sense. There obviously could be other reasons as well, but this one works. I rather like it.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Natalie Perkins on December 18, 2008, 01:18:29 AM
I am not familiar with Dragonsteel or Liar.
Good, lol, they refer to the same book. =]
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Stu on December 18, 2008, 03:53:28 AM
could he be a shard? Brandon had said that:
 You've interacted with two directly.
One is a tough call.  You've never met the Shard itself, but you've seen its power. 
The other one you have not met directly, but have seen its influence.

The characters have sometimes interacted with hoid, although in HoA Vin decided to skip the visit.  And we have possibily seen his influence, seeing how we don't know the extent of his powers, but he is appearing in multiple places so that might fit in. We also havent exactly met the shard directly, but everyone knows about ti, making it a tough call.... and we have seen its power, planet hopping
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: hoid354 on December 18, 2008, 04:28:50 PM
could he be a shard? Brandon had said that:
 You've interacted with two directly.
One is a tough call.  You've never met the Shard itself, but you've seen its power. 
The other one you have not met directly, but have seen its influence.

The characters have sometimes interacted with hoid, although in HoA Vin decided to skip the visit.  And we have possibily seen his influence, seeing how we don't know the extent of his powers, but he is appearing in multiple places so that might fit in. We also havent exactly met the shard directly, but everyone knows about ti, making it a tough call.... and we have seen its power, planet hopping

I think that he might be... that would explain, if Natalie's theory is incorrect, how he could die in Liar. This is when Vin is about to visit Hoid in HoA:
Quote
A few quick jumps brought her to the location. She landed atop a roof and looked down, scanning the area. The ash had been allowed to drift here, piling in corners, making a general mess of things. A group of lumps huddled in an alley beside the square. Beggars, without home or job. Vin had lived like that at times, sleeping in alleys, coughing up ash, hoping it wouldnt rain. She soon located a figure that wasn't sleeping like the others, but sitting quietly in the light ashfall. Her ears picked out a faint sound. The man was humming to himself, as the instructions said he might be doing.
Vin hesitated.
She couldnt decide what it was, but something bothered her about the situation. It wasn't right. She didn't stop to think, she simply turned and jumped away. That was one of the big differences between her and Elend - she didn't always need a reason. A feeling was enough. He always wanted to tease things out and find a why, and she loved him for his logic. However, he would have been very frustrated about her decision to turn away from the square as she had.
Perhaps nothing bad would have happened if she'd gone into the square. Perhaps something terrible would have occured. She would never know, nor did she need to know. As she had countless other times in her life, Vin simply accepted her instincts and moved on.
It sounds like some kind of power was driving Vin away... perhaps the power of a Shard?
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Natalie Perkins on December 19, 2008, 04:40:43 AM
Hoid354
--
I like the name =) Perhaps it is you that is the one popping in everywhere and confusing the hell out of all of us.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Czanos on December 19, 2008, 05:03:10 AM
could he be a shard? Brandon had said that:
 You've interacted with two directly.
One is a tough call.  You've never met the Shard itself, but you've seen its power. 
The other one you have not met directly, but have seen its influence.

The characters have sometimes interacted with hoid, although in HoA Vin decided to skip the visit.  And we have possibily seen his influence, seeing how we don't know the extent of his powers, but he is appearing in multiple places so that might fit in. We also havent exactly met the shard directly, but everyone knows about ti, making it a tough call.... and we have seen its power, planet hopping


So long as that quote is accurate, Hoid cannot be a shard. Kell spoke directly to Hoid in The Final Empire.

And I'm thinking the other two Shards are the Dor and whomever is sending Returned back. Of course, that really belongs in the Shards thread.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Stu on December 20, 2008, 05:09:40 PM
So long as that quote is accurate, Hoid cannot be a shard. Kell spoke directly to Hoid in The Final Empire.

And I'm thinking the other two Shards are the Dor and whomever is sending Returned back. Of course, that really belongs in the Shards thread.
Kelsier speaking to him directly would fit under the: "you've interacted directly with two of them" part would it not.  And it is true that brandon said that there are only two shards on Scadriel, but hoid is a planet jumper so he probably left the planet, or he isn't based on the planet, which would mean that there still are only two shards on the planet, as of now.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: happyman on December 20, 2008, 06:22:55 PM
So long as that quote is accurate, Hoid cannot be a shard. Kell spoke directly to Hoid in The Final Empire.

And I'm thinking the other two Shards are the Dor and whomever is sending Returned back. Of course, that really belongs in the Shards thread.
Kelsier speaking to him directly would fit under the: "you've interacted directly with two of them" part would it not.  And it is true that brandon said that there are only two shards on Scadriel, but hoid is a planet jumper so he probably left the planet, or he isn't based on the planet, which would mean that there still are only two shards on the planet, as of now.

Except that the two we've interacted with directly are almost certainly Ruin and Preservation.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Stu on December 21, 2008, 01:05:39 AM
Here's the entire quote:
Readers have met four shards other than Ruin and Preservation.

You've interacted with two directly.
One is a tough call.  You've never met the Shard itself, but you've seen its power. 
The other one you have not met directly, but have seen its influence.

I didn't put the entire quote before because I didn't think it was pertinant, I know see that it is, sorry.  More information is on the shards thread.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Tage on December 22, 2008, 07:27:37 PM
I'd forgotten that Brandon released some of Liar online. Well, how's this for a clue? (And keep in mind that this is just from what I remember...) Chronologically speaking, Liar of Partinel takes place before *any* of the other books. The Hoid you met in Liar's early chapters did die, but he's not the Hoid about whom everyone is currently speculating.

So I should probably revise my earlier statement. There is technically more than one person named Hoid in the Brandonverse, but only one of them is "the" Hoid.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: little wilson on December 22, 2008, 07:29:07 PM
Okay. That makes more sense. And it makes this even more fascinating....
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Natalie Perkins on December 23, 2008, 05:40:12 AM
So I should probably revise my earlier statement. There is technically more than one person named Hoid in the Brandonverse, but only one of them is "the" Hoid.

Wow... now that's gonna confuse me.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Reaves on December 23, 2008, 03:12:02 PM
I'm just gonna go ahead and assume he means that someone named Hoid died in Dragonsteel...but since then, Brandon has changed who/what Hoid is.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Tino Didriksen on February 18, 2009, 12:38:19 AM
Hoid reminds me of Zifnab / Fizban / Zanfib from Weis and Hickman's various works.

Not something one needs to ponder deeply, but a familiar figure to assure you whose books you're reading.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: happyman on February 18, 2009, 02:45:50 AM
Hoid reminds me of Zifnab / Fizban / Zanfib from Weis and Hickman's various works.

Not something one needs to ponder deeply, but a familiar figure to assure you whose books you're reading.

I'm not familiar with the reference, but given some of Hoid's enigmatic statements, especially in Warbreaker, I'm not at all certain he can be ignored with any kind of impunity, at least not if you want to catch the overall cosmology that's been hinted at.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Rrikor on February 18, 2009, 04:20:52 PM
SPOILER



So we know that ruin and preservation are combined at the end of HoA into on "shard" being sazed. It is also theorized there that it is there original form and something in the past happened to separate them. 

My theory on HOID is that he is also fragments of a single shard that was shattered long ago.  The big difference being that the  fragments are on separate planets and rather then keeping one power over another they all share a bit of the same power.  Now that they have been shattered that power would be weekend.  Also, I think it is really impossible to destroy a shard.  Hoid may die on one planet but he will be reborn there as well to be a reoccurring theme to collect the stories of the planet and try to help guide it with his stories from other planets.  We never did see Ruin and Preservation destroyed, just combined.

As for his conversation in Warbreaker I think they are referring to Mistborn. We saw gods die with the Lord Ruler, Ruin, and Preservation as well as two lands come together with the end of HOA bringing together the land of ashfall and the land of sunlight.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: happyman on February 18, 2009, 05:09:35 PM
SPOILER



So we know that ruin and preservation are combined at the end of HoA into on "shard" being sazed. It is also theorized there that it is there original form and something in the past happened to separate them. 

My theory on HOID is that he is also fragments of a single shard that was shattered long ago.  The big difference being that the  fragments are on separate planets and rather then keeping one power over another they all share a bit of the same power.  Now that they have been shattered that power would be weekend.  Also, I think it is really impossible to destroy a shard.  Hoid may die on one planet but he will be reborn there as well to be a reoccurring theme to collect the stories of the planet and try to help guide it with his stories from other planets.  We never did see Ruin and Preservation destroyed, just combined.

As for his conversation in Warbreaker I think they are referring to Mistborn. We saw gods die with the Lord Ruler, Ruin, and Preservation as well as two lands come together with the end of HOA bringing together the land of ashfall and the land of sunlight.

Most of these ideas have already been discussed in this or other threads.  Most of us believe that Hoid is not a shard, and that he was not referring to Mistborn (it doesn't really fit).
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on February 18, 2009, 08:21:18 PM
Hoid is definitely referring to the Dragonsteel world but you can't know that if you haven't read Dragonsteel.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Rrikor on February 18, 2009, 08:26:43 PM
Anyway to get a hand on dragonsteel.  I see alot of references to it and would like to read it. 
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on February 18, 2009, 10:30:48 PM
The Harold B Lee Library at Brigham Young University has a copy of the version of Dragonsteel that was Brandon's English thesis. You may be able to get it via interlibrary loan at your local library.

Brandon is sure to some day publish a completely rewritten version of Dragonsteel, but it may not be for years or even more than a decade. (Since he has so many projects he's working on right now.) Part of the old Dragonsteel book, however, will (as of the most recent information available) be used in the Way of Kings series he's starting after he finishes the Wheel of Time.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Natalie Perkins on February 19, 2009, 04:14:23 AM
Ah, but my library had gotten skillfully apt at transferring my calls to different departments in order to frustrate me. They get very touchy when I ask them about interlibrary loans outside of Illinois. Tsk tsk.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on February 19, 2009, 06:48:33 PM
You should walk in and ask for an interlibrary loan form to fill out. Then they'll have to do something with it. :)
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Miyabi on February 20, 2009, 04:11:03 AM
I knew there was one of his books that I hadn't read yet. >>

-goes to find a way to get it.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Cosmic_AC on March 01, 2009, 07:14:54 AM
Ah, but my library had gotten skillfully apt at transferring my calls to different departments in order to frustrate me. They get very touchy when I ask them about interlibrary loans outside of Illinois. Tsk tsk.

You can borrow my copy.  All it will cost is...
...Your soul.

Sorry, I just finished reading the second Alcatraz.   ;D
I don't actually have a copy.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Miyabi on March 01, 2009, 07:24:55 AM
Ah, but my library had gotten skillfully apt at transferring my calls to different departments in order to frustrate me. They get very touchy when I ask them about interlibrary loans outside of Illinois. Tsk tsk.

You can borrow my copy.  All it will cost is...
...Your soul.

Sorry, I just finished reading the second Alcatraz.   ;D
I don't actually have a copy.
Speaking of Alcatraz Hoid hasn't made his appearance there yet.  Unless I'm extremely ditzy and missed it.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on March 01, 2009, 07:39:58 AM
I don't think he will. I think Alcatraz is not set in the same universe—but the way the breaking talent is described in book 2 does seem kind of like a Shard, so I won't swear by that statement. (There is some inside info I have on the connection between the worlds, though, which I sadly must do no more than taunt you with.)
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Miyabi on March 01, 2009, 07:51:11 AM
"click and listen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEelCqQDH-Y)" must you do this to us?!


xD

That video was ridiculously hard to find. ha ha.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Cosmic_AC on March 01, 2009, 09:46:46 AM
So, there seem to be a ton of parallels between Alcatraz and Mistborn, some of which may not be so obvious to me so maybe I missed them.

Okay, I know some of those points are kind of a stretch, but what I'm wondering is, are these parallels the direct result of some Brandonverse-related relationship between Mistborn and Alcatraz, or is Brandon just ripping himself off?  (And if the former, then Hoid really ought to be in Alcatraz.  Could he have been the security guard on the airplane who acted confused when he found a "kid" instead of a "terrorist"?)

EDIT: Crud, I just realized I used the word "so" three times in the first sentence.   :-\
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on March 01, 2009, 10:33:18 AM
Well... Brandon did write the first book in 16 days and the second book in 17 days, so it wouldn't surprise me if he took some shortcuts. You're right that some of those correspondences are a big stretch, and I'm thinking most of them aren't very significant. Brandon can do whatever he wants when he's writing; the problems come in if that means the reader can predict what will happen next based on other books he's written.

I think you should start up a new thread with that list and make predictions for Alcatraz 3, because it's getting interesting and it's not very Hoid-related.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Cosmic_AC on March 01, 2009, 07:01:27 PM
Good point.  Actually, the only excuse I have for putting that there is that similarities between Alcatraz and Mistborn may indicate Hoid appearances as well.  Or maybe it's just Mistborn-for-kids, sans Hoid, with shortcuts.  I sure don't know.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Alatar on March 13, 2009, 09:14:43 PM
Hello.
I am new to the forum (and introduced myself as the good boy I am ::) ) and wanted to greet you all sanderson addicts (and those who aren't, too, I must act polite in my first posts  ;D ).
I have been around for some days and have read the posts about Hoid and the shards, which I believe are very intriguing issues.

Have you read books set in Moorcocks' Multiverse? I don't know why, but Hoid makes me remember them. Of course, there's the Eternal Champion, which is a man who exists in all planes of existance, but there is also the Companion, not a hero, but the Hero's friend and minion.
Before reading about the Hoid phenomenon I didn't notice it, but now I believe he could be something like that, he is there where a shard exists. Also, he gives information (very little to Sarene, a little to Kelsier, none to Vin and a lot to Siri).
I just wanted to present the idea in order for anyone who feels like that to ponder it, but I'll give it more thought.

And, Ookla, that reference abouth Hoid = Dioh is very obscure, are you by chance a language researcher?  :D
Hey, I am from Andalucia and even I didn't think of it.  ???
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on March 13, 2009, 10:03:32 PM
Well, my degree is in linguistics and I've always been interested in languages. I'm not actively studying though.

So are you suggesting that Hoid exists on all the worlds at the same time, or just that he goes from world to world like we've been thinking?

[EDIT: Whoops, I meant world, not universe, really! I'll blame it on you talking about multiverse stuff...yeah...]
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Alatar on March 13, 2009, 11:34:21 PM
Quote
So are you suggesting that Hoid exists in all the universes at the same time, or just that he goes from universe to universe like we've been thinking?

Well, I don't really would like to abandon any of those two lines of thought but I have the feeling that he exists in all worlds (I do think BS series are set in worlds in the same universe instead of separate planes) at once, with different features in each one but the same consciousness.
If you read Moorcock, I'm thinking of Erkosse, who is the only Eternal Champion who remembers any and all the lives in all the different universes.

Maybe Hoid can die in one world but still remain in one another, though I think if he indeed dies, will reappear again.

As a matter of fact, I searched through WoA and didn't find Hoid. And probably the one in HoA is the same as in FE. Why and when and how has he moved from Luthadel to Fadrex is something I don't know, as is beyond my imagination how can Cett know of a skaa informant and for how long has he known of him.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on March 14, 2009, 12:30:25 AM
Yeah, he does not appear in WoA.

I think having him appear on different worlds at the same time is confusing, and it's something very hard to prove because we don't know what time the different books are happening compared to each other. Well, we know that The Liar of Partinel happens thousands of years before the other books, but beyond that we have no clue. Brandon could even write a book someday where it's one of his normal fantasy worlds and then people from Scadrial show up in space ships.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Reaves on March 14, 2009, 01:03:45 AM
Well if Hoid is going to end up in any of the future Mistborn books then we at least know he is practically immortal.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Alatar on March 14, 2009, 11:28:32 PM
Well, as I said I'm still reading the HoA spoilers thread and I just read this you should have commented to death:

Quote
This is slightly a tangent, but here is a relevant chunk from the Warbreaker Annotations.  As this won't be posted for months, I'll put it here as a sneak preview.

Chapter Thirty-Two
"This whole scene came about because I wanted an interesting way to delve into the history.  Siri needed to hear it, and I felt that many readers would want to know it.  However, that threatened to put me into the realm of the dreaded info dump.

And so I brought in the big guns.  This cameo is so obvious (or, at least, someday it will be) that I almost didn’t use the name Hoid for the character, as I felt it would be too obvious.  The first draft had him using one of his other favorite pseudonyms.  However, in the end, I decided that too many people would be confused (or, at least, even more confused) if I didn’t use the same name.  So here it is.  And if you have no idea what I’m talking about. . .well, let’s just say that there’s a lot more to this random appearance than you might think."

From BS dated 19 october 2008.

So.... I think it is ok to have different lines of thought in theories, but that this clearly points to him being the same character in every world, so he must be travelling from world to world. Taking into account that every book happens in a different "universe chronology", he can be in every series being the same man.
And he hasn't to be powerful in all of them. For example, if Elantris is the "oldest" (in universe chronology) story, he could just be a beggar who later in the series obtains his power. Same if Mistborn is the oldest. He could just be a skaa and later on he got his power to travel. It is pretty obvious that Warbreaker is not an old story in BS universe (maybe we will find Scadriel travellers landing in Warbreaker's lands?)  :o

I really believe we will know of him later on, and that the one story we hear from him being able to travel through worlds will be one of the "oldest" one.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: little wilson on March 15, 2009, 12:05:03 AM
Hmm. There's something in that quote that catches my eye. "Using one of his other favorite pseudonyms."...I distinctly remember that Brandon said Hoid was in WoA, because all I could think was "No, he's not" and I was really surprised. But Brandon insisted that he was in there....Now I'm thinking that maybe he's in there under a different name...which is really confusing, but kinda cool at the same time.

And Ook, that spaceship thing would be awesome. I'd pay a lot of money to see some Allomancy/Feruchemy interaction with other magic systems. I know it won't happen, but it would be really cool if it did.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on March 15, 2009, 01:30:23 AM
So I guess someone needs to go through WoA looking for someone who could be Hoid using a pseudonym.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: little wilson on March 15, 2009, 04:24:03 AM
I'd do it, but my sister-in-law still has my copy....maybe I can steal my dad's hardback...I'm sure he won't mind...although he'll probably call me a dork, since that's what he seems to think of my obsession with Mistborn. ::)
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Alatar on March 15, 2009, 10:45:42 AM
Yes but.... what do we have to look for?
I can't remember right now any informant or storyteller in WoA, which would be the typical choice. I don't think he would be a noble or assemblyman, he seems to be always fairly down in the chain, but other than that, I can't think of any clue who can be useful to find Hoid.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on March 16, 2009, 03:47:19 AM
Anyone whose mention in the book seems suspicious. Someone who does or says something and is never seen again.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: melbatoast on March 17, 2009, 05:47:01 PM
Ok, I skimmed through WoA and I still don't know who Hoid is. Some possibilities:

the dressmaker
wolfhound merchant
Noorden? the obligator who helps out with the government, but I think he shows up in the next book. And he has tattoos.
Granny ?, (sneaks people out of the city) except she's a woman and seems to have been around for quite a while
random skaa that Sazed meets before coming to Luthadel, but I don't know what Hoid would be doing in the middle of nowhere
Terris person from the group that flees to Luthadel, but not likely he could infiltrate that quickly

This was just a quick skim, so I probably missed him somewhere. Someone else should look through WOA and see what they think. Or maybe Ookla could just tell us all.   ;)
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on March 17, 2009, 08:29:39 PM
I don't think any of those 6 people are likely to be Hoid. Definitely not Noorden; he does show up later.

I don't know the answer. I'm inclined to think he's just not there in WoA. I could be wrong, of course, since I didn't notice him appearing in more than one book until I read Warbreaker at the same time as the first part of Liar of Partinel.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: melbatoast on March 17, 2009, 08:44:13 PM
Too bad. I'm pretty sure that I saw someone mention in the HoA thread that Brandon listed the books Hoid was in at a signing and WoA was in there. Anyway, someone else can try looking for it.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: little wilson on March 18, 2009, 07:28:19 AM
Yeah, when I saw Brandon in Idaho Falls, he said that Hoid was in WoA....And a part of me believes him, and thinks that he must be using an alias, but another part of me thinks Brandon can't remember which books in Hoid-verse he HASN'T appeared in, and so lumps them all together....but since the only time I've met Brandon is that one time, I don't know how likely that inclination is...
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: melbatoast on March 18, 2009, 03:45:23 PM
Most likely it was just too subtle for me to notice on my skim-through. In HoA, he's only mentioned for a couple of paragraphs.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Natalie Perkins on March 23, 2009, 03:04:45 AM
I'll see if I can find it, I am writing a term paper on the book after all. I don't know if I'm gonna do another read through though, but if I do I'll keep an eye out
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: zas678 on May 01, 2009, 12:22:24 AM
I think I found someone that might be Hoid in WoA!!
Here's the quote:

Quote
A voice, however, stopped her. The speaker was a middle-aged man with an ash-stained beard and a dirty cap held nervously in his hands. He was a storng man, probably a mill worker. His quiet voice seemed a contrast to hist powerful build. "Lady Heir. What will become of us?"
              The terror--the uncertainty--in the large man's voice was so piteous that Vin hestitated. He regarded her with hopeful eyes, as did most of the others.
pg 229 WoA

Quote
The bearded  at the front continued to twist his cap, however, looking at Vin.  "They're right frightened Lady Heir. Right frightened."
pg 230 WoA

Right after this,  Vin said that she would help the people, and protect as best she could.  It is the first time she says anything like it to the people (if I remember right)


Since I was looking through books, I decided to put these in too:



Here is FE Hoid:
Quote
The scrawny bald man bowed deeply in the misty night.
pg 268 FE

Here is Elantris Hoid:
Quote
Sarene had never seen his face, but she assumed from his voice that he was an old man.
pg. 562

Here is the descirption of Hoid from Warbreaker:
[quoteHe waved his hand, and an elderly man with an extraordinarily long white beard approached.
Quote
pg  430 Warbreaker 6.1

Quote
As she looked more closely, she could tell that he wasn’t quite as old as he seemed at first glance.  The beard must be a badge of his profession, and while it didn’t appear to be fake, she suspected that it had been bleached.  He was much really younger than he wanted to appear.
pg 431 Warbreaker 6.1



Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Renoard on May 01, 2009, 12:43:18 AM
I thought it was settled that Jade was Hoid?
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Patriotic Kaz on May 01, 2009, 02:26:35 AM
SSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHH....don't let them all in on the seceret gosh!!!!!1>:(
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Reaves on May 01, 2009, 03:10:33 AM
I think I found someone that might be Hoid in WoA!!
Here's the quote:

Quote
A voice, however, stopped her. The speaker was a middle-aged man with an ash-stained beard and a dirty cap held nervously in his hands. He was a storng man, probably a mill worker. His quiet voice seemed a contrast to hist powerful build. "Lady Heir. What will become of us?"
              The terror--the uncertainty--in the large man's voice was so piteous that Vin hestitated. He regarded her with hopeful eyes, as did most of the others.
pg 229 WoA

Quote
The bearded  at the front continued to twist his cap, however, looking at Vin.  "They're right frightened Lady Heir. Right frightened."
pg 230 WoA

Right after this,  Vin said that she would help the people, and protect as best she could.  It is the first time she says anything like it to the people (if I remember right)


Maybe, but the "strong build" doesn't really fit with the rest of the excerpts, which describe Hoid as scrawny.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: deathgate on May 02, 2009, 08:30:42 PM
Would be kind of Hitchcock coolness if Hoid has a mention in WOT/TGS.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Miyabi on May 02, 2009, 08:54:37 PM
No it wouldn't.  That would be a bad thing.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on May 02, 2009, 09:07:45 PM
I really don't think Brandon would do that. There is a reason to Hoid beyond just making cameos. Whatever that reason is, it's absent in WoT.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Renoard on May 03, 2009, 10:59:49 AM
Something to do with the Shards religion isn't it?
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on May 03, 2009, 04:42:49 PM
More cosmology than religion, but yes.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: happyman on May 04, 2009, 04:29:06 PM
I ditto Ookla on this one.  Brandon has got far too much respect for WoT to add his own signature character to it.  It'd be like he was claiming it for himself, which he would be, and the fans would rightly rip him to shreds.

But he doesn't need the fan-threat to not do it.  He is a fan, and so will not do it himself.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: SarahG on May 04, 2009, 08:12:16 PM
Nice finds, Zas!  I definitely like the oddly-white-beard connection, sounds to me like a promising theory.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: zas678 on June 10, 2009, 02:34:40 AM
On the topic of Hoid in WoA....
So I asked Brandon Sanderson at the release party if Hoid was the man I mentioned earier, or if it  was the old man who claims Sazed to be the Holy First Witness, or the guy who found the correct properties for duraluminum, and Brandon said no.

But he did say that he was in there.

Now I'll have to reread WoA after reading Warbreaker.....
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Miyabi on June 10, 2009, 04:28:58 PM
If I remember correctly he was the informant that Vin had a bad feeling about and decided to not go see. >>'  I think.  I could be way wrong.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: little wilson on June 10, 2009, 04:38:21 PM
If I remember correctly he was the informant that Vin had a bad feeling about and decided to not go see. >>'  I think.  I could be way wrong.
In HoA, he was, but  Zas is referring to WoA. There's no mention of Hoid in that book--at least not by name. But Brandon says he's in there, and I (and apparently a few others) are curious who he is....Oh, and thanks for asking him that, Zas. I'd forgotten all about it.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Miyabi on June 10, 2009, 04:43:32 PM
Oops, I totally read WoA as HoA. xD Silly me.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: SomeHackWriter on June 10, 2009, 10:08:59 PM
At the very least, Brandon created a character to play as himself if the movies are ever made  :D


I like this idea. I will picture Brandon as Hoid from now on  :D

I agree with this as well.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: zas678 on June 11, 2009, 06:29:08 PM
Hmmmm....
Quote
"I was just passing by, Master Terrisman," Tuer said. "On the path twenty yards yon. I seen old jed working his field--a hard worker he was. Some og us took a break when the lords left, but old Jed just kept on. Guess he knew we'd be needing food for the winter, lords or no lords."
WoA

Tuer goes on to explain that he say Jed become mistfallen, and Jed died. I don't know what this would mean if Jed was Hoid.....

But then again...
Hoid seems to not only be an old guy, but someone who is good at what he does (FE and Warbreaker) but also someone who tries to help the main characters out. In Elantris is was moving the boxes. In FE it was informing Kelsier. In HoA he tried to give information to Vin, but she got spooked. In Warbreaker, he gave critical information to Siri and Lightsong.

So we just need to find someone that helped out our heroes without being too showy about it. And that probably rules out Old Jed. Besides the fact that he is dead.

Edit- spelling
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Pygmalion on June 12, 2009, 01:01:08 AM
The Hoid scene in Warbreaker is much longer than I thought it would be. I'd been so tempted just to read that part of Warbreaker online just to try to connect some more dots with Hoid, but I'm glad I refrained. Would have ruined some of the story for me.

Also, Zas678, I love your signature quote. I just noticed it, and it really made me laugh.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: zas678 on June 12, 2009, 04:30:38 AM
Thanks! I actually just changed it today

edit-
I noticed something else. The heroes always send for Hoid. They don't run into him. They look for him. Sarene (tecincally Ashe) was looking for someone to bring supplies to Elantris. Kelsier and later Vin wanted information. Siri/Lightsong wanted a storyteller.

All we need to do is find someone who a PoV character looks for.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: little wilson on June 15, 2009, 12:22:39 AM
And I think it's safe to say that the PoV character we're looking for will not be Vin. So that leaves who? Elend, Zane, Sazed, Dox, Breeze, and who else? I'm sure I'm missing someone. It's been a while since I last read WoA.....

Out of those ones there, I can see it being Elend, Dox, or Sazed. Breeze's is just during the battle (I think) and he doesn't come across anyone that I recall. And Zane's too crazy to send for someone like Hoid.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Plasman on June 15, 2009, 01:43:21 AM
Forgive me if someone has already brought this up, but i think the most important part of Hoid's cameo in warbreaker was at the end of the scene when he tells Siri that he learned his method of storytelling where two lands meet and gods have died, or something like that. an actual piece of Hoid's backstory?

I am now beginning my "Hoid Search" reading of WoA, but i'll just throw out one possibility and see what u guys do with it. Kwaan?

I don't know. i'm still holding out judgement on whether or not Hoid is a singe person or something else. i can't get over the fact that he DIED in the first few chapters of Liar of Partinel that Brandon posted on here. either that is the end of the Hoid story within the chronology of Brandon's universe and the rest will be filled in later (i wouldn't like this option seeing as it would mean the great world hopping storyteller was killed by a simple poison), or reincarnation has something to do with the way he gets from world to world, or... there is more than one Hoid.

i just thought of something. if i remember right, liar of partinel takes place several hundred years before dragonsteel. does anyone who has read dragonsteel know if Hoid makes an appearance? has he returned from the dead??? did another Hoid get sent as a replacement???
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: little wilson on June 15, 2009, 02:33:25 AM
Oh, I like the idea of another Hoid getting sent as a replacement. That would kind of make sense, since I believe earlier Tage said the Hoid in Liar was different than all the other Hoid's (the others being the same person).

I haven't read Dragonsteel, but I think I heard he's in that too. And I think Ookla (at least I think it was Ookla) said something about the two lands meeting and gods have died sounded like Dragonsteel, but I don't know, since I haven't read it.

As for Kwaan. I kind of doubt it. Kwaan lived 1000 years before (since he wasn't one of the 1st Generation of Kandra). And I would think he'll be someone who makes an actual appearance in the book....I really need to start my own Hoid search. The more people we get on this, the more possibility of us finding out who it is...
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Plasman on June 15, 2009, 02:42:09 AM
alright, so i just went back and actually took the time to read this thread... i apologize for my being uninformed

ok so liar of partinel is at the beginning of the chronology, at least so far. i am pretty much convinced now that the place he was mentioning to Siri is the Dragonsteel world. the death of the Gods is supposedly gave rise to the skull moss (i think thats the name) though i'm not sure about the 2 lands meeting. it could possibly mean the place where he does his actual planet-hopping? the two lands being two separate planets? idk.

Tage's comments r very interesting/confusing. apparently both sides of the argument for Single vs. plural people were right at the same time... somehow... my new question is are any of the Hoids we've been seeing "the Hoid"?  or does who is "the Hoid" change?
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on June 15, 2009, 03:52:57 AM
The two lands meeting refers to the human realm and the Sho Del realm in Dragonsteel.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: zas678 on June 15, 2009, 03:18:02 PM
I think that Hoid is someone who-to quote Ookla- we  "see once and then never see again." I definitely don't think he's a PoV character, plus it has to be someone that Kelsier doesn't now, since he met with Hoid once.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Vatdoro on June 15, 2009, 05:17:58 PM
The two lands meeting refers to the human realm and the Sho Del realm in Dragonsteel.

Very interesting. I just read the Hoid section in Warbreaker last night. It wasn't obvious to me that "a place where two lands meet" was from Dragonsteel. Now that you explain it, it makes sense. Although now I'm a little confused.

if i remember right, liar of partinel takes place several hundred years before dragonsteel. does anyone who has read dragonsteel know if Hoid makes an appearance?

I didn't know Liar of Partinel was in the same world as Dragonsteel. I think B. Sanderson mentioned he's using about half of the stuff from Dragonsteel in Way of Kings, and the other half in Liar. It will be interesting to see what ends up in Liar, and if we learn more about Hoid. Someone mentioned Hoid being killed in the first few chapters of Liar. That would be ... dissapointing. If he does die, then there has to be more to it than that (not really dead, able to come back from the dead, something else).

The only Hoid cameo I remember in Mistborn was when Vin was going to meet him, but then changed her mind because her instincts were telling her it was a bad idea. Were there any other Hoid appearences in Mistborn? It was nice to get a nice long scene with him in Warbreaker.

Now we only need to figure out how this guy appears in so many different worlds.  :)
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: zas678 on June 15, 2009, 05:58:58 PM
Yeah, Hoid is the informant that Kelsier talks to. The one with the 'bad eyesight' who smokes tobacco. I think it's pg 268 in Final Empire.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: elheredero on June 15, 2009, 06:51:33 PM
On the topic of Hoid in WoA....
So I asked Brandon Sanderson at the release party if Hoid was the man I mentioned earier, or if it  was the old man who claims Sazed to be the Holy First Witness, or the guy who found the correct properties for duraluminum, and Brandon said no.

But he did say that he was in there.

Now I'll have to reread WoA after reading Warbreaker.....

Yeah, the guy who discovered duralumin was named Terion, so, obviously, I was way off. Be that as it may, Brandon Sanderson did say that it was a good guess. Terion does fit your proposed criteria for being Hoid, in that the main characters seek him out and he helps them learn something valuable about the magic system or nature of their world or with some other seemingly insurmountable problem. It shouldn't be too hard to find someone else who fulfills these requirements in WoA.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: little wilson on June 15, 2009, 07:39:46 PM
What I find fascinating is that we're so intent on finding who it is. It would've been so easy in the writing process to name the character, but because Brandon didn't, yet said Hoid is in there, we've listed Hoid's characteristics and are searching for him....It's really quite fascinating.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on June 15, 2009, 07:55:33 PM
Liar of Partinel happens a few thousand years before the events in the original Dragonsteel book. None of the Dragonsteel characters have moved to Way of Kings.

Brandon's plan a couple years ago was for Partinel to have a sequel, then skip a few thousand years and start the main Dragonsteel sequence (starting with Jerick's story) which would be five books or so. He may get back to this again eventually, or may not.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Tage on June 16, 2009, 07:56:26 AM
Wow, you guys are *still* going on this? I really need to talk to Brandon and see if any of the Hoid stuff he explained a couple years ago has changed. And then find out how much of it he actually wants to keep secret...
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: little wilson on June 16, 2009, 08:05:53 AM
Of course we're still going on about it. It's HOID! Need I say more?

...And that's kind of cruel. Because if you come back, and post something that you learn (that he approves, of course), then we will know that you know more....

...Of course, why is that any different than the current situation with Ookla? Everyone knows he knows more than he can share....

Never mind. Ignore me. I'm just a college student whose crazy sleeping schedule is starting to do stuff to her brain. I don't know what I'm talking about... ::)
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Natalie Perkins on June 17, 2009, 07:55:18 PM
Wow, you guys are *still* going on this?

You really expected us to have something better to do?

EDIT: not adding anything because anything I've discovered has already been posted =) y'all are so dang efficient
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: badlydrawnjeff on July 08, 2009, 09:57:32 PM
An update to this, per the Twitter interview:

Quote
Feifner: #tweettheauthor What do you mean when you say Mistborn is a sequel to Elantris?

Feifner: #tweettheauthor Can Hoid travel through worlds? or, in other words, are all of your "Hoids" one person?

Sanderson: @Feifner I can’t go into details without spoiling it. Suffice it to say that a character from Elantris appears in Mistborn.

Sanderson: @Feifner For the record, this is not a ‘name cameo.’ This is, indeed, the very same person. #tweettheauthor
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: little wilson on July 08, 2009, 11:59:15 PM
In response to those same questions, from the same person, Brandon also said this:

Quote
@Feifner Well, ‘Hoid’ the name is an alias that a certain person is using, and he stole it from someone else.

@Feifner But the person named Hoid in Elantris, Mistborn, and Warbreaker are all the same individual..
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Zhalfirin on July 09, 2009, 07:42:53 AM
Quote
@Feifner Well, ‘Hoid’ the name is an alias that a certain person is using, and he stole it from someone else.

I guess that could mean that the Hoid we see die in Liar of Partinel isn't the Hoid in the rest of the books. Maybe its Midius that now uses it in memory of his master.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Plasman on July 09, 2009, 08:53:16 AM
after reading what brandon said, i whole heartedly agree zhalfirin.  i am now under the impression that midius is the person we refer to as Hoid.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on July 09, 2009, 05:41:25 PM
That has been my guess for quite some time. (And no, Brandon hasn't told me.) But when Brandon says he got the name from someone else, for me that pretty much confirms it.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Tage on July 09, 2009, 05:56:15 PM
Ok, I don't feel bad saying this now, since Brandon basically spilled the beans, but yes, the Liar of Partinel (Midius? It's been a while) is Hoid. He uses the name in honor of his master. He is a viewpoint character in both of the Dragonsteel books that have been written, and I imagine will be for the whole series.

For those who've read the original Dragonsteel, mega-hint-spoiler-thing: for Hoid to appear in multiple stories in multiple worlds, it *would* help a great deal to be immortal.

I have unconfirmed theories on how he travels from world to world. "Hoid" helps a young man in Dragonsteel learn about his own shard, and that young man's shard would be very conducive to FTL travel. At this point, I'm just speculating with the rest of you though. :)
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Renoard on July 09, 2009, 05:59:05 PM
Heh!  Ook, you know some fan types are going to take the fact you expressed an opinion and take it as delivered from Brandon on High. ;P

Okay, well now this point is moot.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on July 09, 2009, 06:01:57 PM
Tage, I've been wondering if that's who Hoid was.

[EDIT: See my post a few pages below where this info is UNCONFIRMED.]
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Nightfire107 on July 12, 2009, 11:11:22 AM
okay a couple things. first hello, i am a student in washington state and new to this.
secondly, i think hoid was taught storrytelling by slowswift. i could be wrong but reading the warbreaker comment hoid said and the ars arkanum in hero of ages something seems to tell me they are connected.
thirdly, those comments i've seen referencing liar and other works. could someone explaine those a bit.

Thanks a bunch.
Wyatt(Nightfire107)
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Zhalfirin on July 12, 2009, 08:37:07 PM
@Nightfire107

Those books like Liar of Partinel and Dragonsteel are unpublished works from Brandon. You can read the first few chapters of Liar online if you google it, as for Dragonsteel that was Brandon's graduate work and can get at by interlibary loan.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: little wilson on July 12, 2009, 08:39:57 PM
Dragonsteel is at the BYU library--if you did want to interlibrary loan it (assuming it's not currently checked out).
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Natalie Perkins on July 13, 2009, 05:27:21 AM
Dragonsteel is at the BYU library--if you did want to interlibrary loan it (assuming it's not currently checked out).

My library sucks at interlibrary loans. I'm still trying to convince them to go out of state. Every time I go, I ask... and I get denied. But I'm confident I'll wear them down eventually.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: IngtarWhoStoleChristmas on July 13, 2009, 02:34:08 PM
Dragonsteel is at the BYU library--if you did want to interlibrary loan it (assuming it's not currently checked out).

I returned it to PSU library on Friday, should be back at BYU around 7/15;
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: zas678 on July 13, 2009, 09:43:27 PM
okay a couple things. first hello, i am a student in washington state and new to this.
secondly, i think hoid was taught storrytelling by slowswift. i could be wrong but reading the warbreaker comment hoid said and the ars arkanum in hero of ages something seems to tell me they are connected.
thirdly, those comments i've seen referencing liar and other works. could someone explaine those a bit.

Thanks a bunch.
Wyatt(Nightfire107)

You are right, they do seem connected, but from those that have read Dragonsteel, we have learned that it fits much better into that book, for there is a person named Hoid who teaches someone named Midus where 'two lands meet and gods have died'. It is theorized by those who have  read DragonSteel that Midus is Hoid in all of the other ShardWorlds.

Also,with what Brandon has recently written, I think that Hoid may have been in Terris during the rest of WoA. I don't know why, but it just feels right.

Congratulations on finally discovering what Hoid did! Good job little_wilson!
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: little wilson on July 13, 2009, 11:38:38 PM
Thank you, Zas. I got extremely excited when Ook told me I was right. Much more excited than is probably good, considering Hoid is fictional character, but oh well....And I think that's a good guess about Terris. I was wondering what exactly Hoid could be doing that would put him out of the views of everyone else, and Terris totally fits.

Now we just need to find him in the actual copy...This should be fun (or it would be if I had my copy with me...which I don't...argh).
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Chaos on July 14, 2009, 01:35:33 AM
I really like the idea of Hoid being in Terris. It seems like a very good possibility--I'll start there in my search.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: zas678 on July 14, 2009, 09:59:41 PM
pg. 546 WoA.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Andrew the Great on July 14, 2009, 10:05:10 PM
I'm assuming you're talking about the hardcover, as that is where the Terrisman is talking to Elend. And i don't know that the Terrisman is Hoid. It doesn't seem to fit him that well.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Chaos on July 14, 2009, 10:07:51 PM
I agree. Brandon said that a viewpoint character notices something odd about someone, but quickly dismisses it. I don't see either of those with that Terrisman.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Andrew the Great on July 14, 2009, 10:27:52 PM
I think it's the wolfhound merchant. At the top of page 49 of WoA (hardcover), vin goes to see the wolfhound merchant. She notices that he only has hair on the right half of his head. It is never mentioned again. She buys a wolfhound from him. This position is also in the middle class area of society, where Hoid has been previously in the other books. It fits his character quite well.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Chaos on July 14, 2009, 10:42:24 PM
I disagree on the point that Brandon said Hoid was away from the main characters during the majority of the book. If he's the wolfhound merchant, then this man would be in Luthadel during the novel, which isn't exactly "away" from the main characters...
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Andrew the Great on July 14, 2009, 10:45:16 PM
But he really isn't with them either. And you can't deny that only having hair on half of your head is odd. And Vin does quickly dismiss it. If someone finds an acceptable alternative that isn't in Luthadel the whole book, I'll accept it. As is, I'm voting with the wolfhound merchant.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Chaos on July 14, 2009, 10:53:34 PM
Fair enough.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Chaos on July 15, 2009, 05:31:22 AM
So I was looking through the MB3 Spoiler Thread, because I apparently have no time on my hands. Here's something interesting:

Quote from: Brandon
This is slightly a tangent, but here is a relevant chunk from the Warbreaker Annotations.  As this won't be posted for months, I'll put it here as a sneak preview.

Chapter Thirty-Two
"This whole scene came about because I wanted an interesting way to delve into the history.  Siri needed to hear it, and I felt that many readers would want to know it.  However, that threatened to put me into the realm of the dreaded info dump.

And so I brought in the big guns.  This cameo is so obvious (or, at least, someday it will be) that I almost didn’t use the name Hoid for the character, as I felt it would be too obvious.  The first draft had him using one of his other favorite pseudonyms.  However, in the end, I decided that too many people would be confused (or, at least, even more confused) if I didn’t use the same name.  So here it is.  And if you have no idea what I’m talking about. . .well, let’s just say that there’s a lot more to this random appearance than you might think."

I wanted to see what that "favorite pseudonym" was, so I downloaded the Warbreaker version 1.0 and discovered it was "Dust". Keep an eye out for that.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: zas678 on July 15, 2009, 05:34:36 AM
And he doesn't have to stay the wolfhound merchant. He could've been a merchant till he somehow hacked (literally) into the WoA and broke the pottery with the Lerasium, then gone off to Terris. But From how heavily Brandon says Hoid was in disguise, I think he might be mentioned only in passing. (though not by any name)
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Andrew the Great on July 15, 2009, 04:40:25 PM
Well that was part of what made me suspect the wolfhound merchant. He's there for about a page, he fits the character of Hoid, his mannerisms are somewhat similar, etc. And, as Zas says, he doesn't have to stay in Luthadel. Maybe he's there long enough to sell Vin a wolfhound and then leaves.

Oh, Chaos, the whole thing with Dust is very interesting. I actually think I first read that draft, and just didn't remember it. As you say, we'll have to look for it, but I doubt it appears in WoA. My guess would be that the WoA appearance is just a brief scene with no name.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Chaos on July 15, 2009, 07:12:48 PM
Oh, I'm certain of that. But in later books, if we see a guy named Dust :P
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Andrew the Great on July 15, 2009, 08:08:17 PM
Indeed. I wonder if he appears under that pseudonym in any of Brandon's unpublished stuff?
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: JakobLayn on July 18, 2009, 07:23:17 AM
Hello Just logged in for the first time YAY!!!! ;D and just had a thought reading all the comments could Hoid be the dressmaker that Vin sees??? Idk i was just skimming ill have to go more in depth See  Ya question how do you put the liitle quotes on the bottom of your comments








The fear to explore the unknowns in life is to deny yourself all the joys and happiness as well
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: JakobLayn on July 18, 2009, 07:29:14 AM
I Dont think that was it :D
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Nehex on July 22, 2009, 01:18:27 AM
Is Hoid the wolfhound merchant?  He may not fit the hair requirements, but he is there at the hero's request to offer help in the form of a wolf hound for TenSoon aka OreSeur
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: flyleaffan on July 22, 2009, 03:56:28 AM
ok, so we know that Hoid is named explicitly in Elantris, HoA, and Warbreaker, and that he could have also appeared elsewhere under a different pseudonym or under no name at all. I have two thoughts unrelated to the current discussion (I think) and I was too lazy (and I didn't want spoilers to Elantris as I havent' finished it yet (I'm into part II)) to read the entirety of the posts.

1. Could Hoid be an anthropomorphic form of God (or an all-knowing, all-powerful being) who has created (or governed over) each of these universes? This would explain the grasp of the knowledge he has of the origin of the Hallandren God Kings in Warbreaker.

2. Or Hoid could be a hero/protagonist in a future Sanderson novel? perhaps his planned multi volume series  (I believe it is Way of Kings)  http://bit.ly/SWWUs (http://bit.ly/SWWUs) He would have the ability to travel between worlds/dimensions, so he's some kind of master of time and space.

Just a couple thoughts I had in mind.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: sortitus on July 22, 2009, 04:24:11 AM
See page three of this thread. :-*
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: little wilson on July 22, 2009, 04:24:38 AM
ok, so we know that Hoid is named explicitly in Elantris, HoA, and Warbreaker

Don't forget Final Empire. He was the informant Kell talked to.

And Hoid will most likely make an appearance somewhere in the Stormlight Archive (first book is The Way of Kings), but if he's ever going to be a protagonist, I seriously doubt it will be in that series. Maybe Dragonsteel (which I haven't read yet)....
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: sortitus on July 22, 2009, 04:27:45 AM
It appears (in page three) that Hoid has played a larger role in Liar of Partinel and Dragonsteel. I think I remember reading somewhere that Hoid's story will be the last series set in the universe of the Shards. Definitely not Kings, which is just a world with more Shards than those we've visited so far. We may be getting closer to the center of things as Brandon tells these tales....
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Andrew the Great on July 22, 2009, 04:29:45 AM
Yeah. I hadn't heard that it would be the last set in the shardworlds, but that makes sense. As far as I know, Hoid's story is in Dragonsteel, but that may have changed since supposedly Brandon took bits of Dragonsteel and put them into Way of Kings. That being said, I think it more likely that Hoid will just make appearances in WoK and will be a main-ish character in Dragonsteel.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: little wilson on July 22, 2009, 04:32:34 AM
I remember reading somewhere that Hoid's story will be the last set in the universe of the Shards.

Oh, that's interesting....And funny (Funny because RainbowRose and I are going to write a huge fanfic involving a bunch of Brandon's characters and Hoid only gets one pov--the last chapter...).
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Ari54 on July 23, 2009, 05:32:53 AM
Yeah. I hadn't heard that it would be the last set in the shardworlds, but that makes sense. As far as I know, Hoid's story is in Dragonsteel, but that may have changed since supposedly Brandon took bits of Dragonsteel and put them into Way of Kings. That being said, I think it more likely that Hoid will just make appearances in WoK and will be a main-ish character in Dragonsteel.

I somehow suspect that he hasn't cannabalised Hoid into WoK. That is, beyond his usual cameo deal.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: IngtarWhoStoleChristmas on July 23, 2009, 08:24:01 PM
I believe Hoid was more of a side character in Dragonsteel, but the person (not God @ all) is the protagonist in Liar. (I don't want to give too much away via spoilers and to further back up my opinion of who "Hoid" that pops up everywhere is I would have to do so, so I'll stop there :-) If you're not afraid of spoilers, PM would be a great way to carry this a little further....
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: little wilson on July 23, 2009, 08:26:42 PM
If you're referring to Midius, that's already been said on this thread...so not a spoiler anymore really...
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Elwynn on July 23, 2009, 11:41:57 PM
Though I am new, I have followed this forum since before HoA, delighted with the theories and speculation on the metallic arts. I have since become enthralled with Hoid and Adonalsium so I'll jump right in...

I am currently doing a thorough read through of WoA, searching for the elusive Hoid reference. I'm nearing the end, but have had a change in idea before even finishing. Up to this point I have been marking anyone alluded to with an "odd" quality or behavior. I have disregarded any other qualities (including gender or age) due to the statement that he is "heavily in disguise". Nevertheless this may not refer to his appearance, so I added anyone who was bald or short (Final Empire description). A few of these have been mentioned and rightfully dismissed.

On pg.42 Teur is referenced as having, "...natural desire for notoriety would make him want to gossip about his experience." And a couple paragraphs later, "Teur apparently had a reputation for tall tales." If it wasn't for him being named I would lean toward a Hoid reference.
pg.44 young man with club leg surviving as a skaa plantation worker
pg.46 the man with the guards (never referred to directly as a nobleman, but Vin was referring to them at the time)
pg.47 the bald man following Vin (though he has hair on the sides of his head)
pg.49 wolfhound merchant
pg.72 bob of light; unfortunate late night traveler (dismissed, added because Vin doesn't dwell on it)
pg.78 dark form in the shadows (dismissed, likely tensoon/Zane)
pg.87 obligators in back showing no reaction to the comments on them (Vin worried about the strangeness)
~pg226 dressmaker/assistant, who knows of fashion outside Luthadel, knows Vin (dismissed)
pg.229 bald man with cap (dismissed)

I went a few hundred pages further, but I stopped because this didn't seem to be getting me anywhere.
Mr. Sanderson said that most of Hoid's influence had to be cut from the book, leaving only a small hint. And that we should be wondering what he's been up to in these books, so I thought to start reasoning differently.

Hoid might not be referenced to as a person at all. It may just be his influence that sparks something odd noticeable in another person. I think that Cett is the key. He led Vin to the "man humming to himself" out in Fadrex city. Which means that he had to have contact with Hoid before he left for the Luthadel seige in WoA.

On pg. 394 Cett is seen by Elend as having intentionally put himself in a, "no going back" situation because he's desperate. Maybe he came to Luthadel only because of the influence of someone (Hoid) back in Fadrex. (Though this doesn't make much sense because the influence would have had to happen before WoA, and he tells Vin later that he figured Straff would come for him eventually and he had no allomancers)

Ham is of course noted many times for his strange behavior, not as argumentative or philosophical as he was before

On pg.306 Demoux is seen as walking stooped and nervous, later (336-341) when he meets with the church members and Vin asks him where he first heard about her bringing back the sun and stopping the ash falling he doesn't know, Vin chalks it up to rumors and doesn't mention it again, could Hoid have started these rumors

At the end when Elend is stabbed and dying, Vin finds it eerie that as he grew closer to death, he actually seemed more in control...and then he tries to say something.

I think, from the way the deleted scenes footprint (assuming it wasn't marsh, like the final version footprint at kredik shaw earlier in the book) is mentioned by Mr. Sanderson, it is most likely from Hoid. Since in the deleted version the footprint was next to the fired clay with a metal sphere at the center (which seems an awful lot like a planet to me) maybe it was Hoid that put the unused one there and TLR never saved one at all.
Overall I think Hoid was trying to help, and not necessarily Vin or the group, although that is very possible. He might have just been trying to help the planet, or Leras and Ati. Seeing as he is himself bonded with a shard, he might see his responsibility/power (planet hopping) is to help/unite other shards.

Boy, that's a jumbled mess isn't it. Just throwing things out there b/c I'm thoroughly obsessed with Hoid and Adonalsium and haven't read any new assumptions in a while.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: little wilson on July 24, 2009, 06:37:48 AM
Oh, that's a good point. I still think that Hoid is the one who broke the pottery that allowed Vin to find the Larasium....But I couldn't figure out why he would do that. But that's right--he IS bound to a Shard. Maybe he can see bits of the future, so he knows that in order for Scadrial to continue to exist, Vin has to take Ruin down with her sacrificial/suicide deal, and she did that because Elend had just died, and therefore Elend would have to live to that point....So Hoid made it possible for Elend to survive (Plus, Elend is one who found out about the Atium mistings, and there's a good chance he might not have figured out what the mistfallen were if he himself wasn't an allomancer and thinking that way). All for the long run....

However, I also think, from Brandon's comment, that Hoid actually does make some sort of an appearance. Out of your short list you've got, I'm inclined to think it's either the wolfhound merchant, or perhaps the unfortunate traveler....'Unfortunate' could be the odd quality, maybe. And Vin does dismiss him...It's probably not him, but, it could be...possibly.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Elwynn on July 25, 2009, 12:16:14 AM
After reading that Mistborn is a kind of sequel to Elantris I'm pretty convinced that Hoid's mission is to help the shards/world (or help the people help the shards/world) on different planets. Elantrians became broken, and once the chasm was fixed he went off to scadriel. This is the only link I can see making Mistborn a type of sequel...we know they are on seperate planets. Has anyone read a time frame for warbreaker relating to the others?
Now if we could only get a little more info on where he is in WoA.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Plasman on August 03, 2009, 01:30:12 AM
so having read what little wilson posted of brandon talking about Hoid in WoA I did another search and believe Hoid to be the old terrisman in the refugee camp that tells elend about the inquisitors attacking Terris. first off he's telling a story, Hoid's trademark. this would also fit for him being in diguise. believing the Well to be in Terris, Hoid diguises himself as a terrisman attempting to infiltrate the society and search for clues to its whereabouts. since brandon said hoid learned that the well was in luthadel after vin made the connection and only because of overhearing something a known character says, this is the only possible scene for hoid to be in because it is the only scene where Elend mentions the Well after Vin leaves and before he reaches Luthadel. the only other character with a speaking part in the scene besides Elend and Spook is the old man.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: little wilson on August 03, 2009, 04:05:28 AM
Wow. I really need start looking around before posting my theories. I said almost the same thing in that thread, before I saw this....

You could be right. Hoid could be the old man. I personally don't think he is. I think Hoid is simply listening in to the conversation between Elend, Spook, and the old man, and then also later when El and Spook are talking--since this is where El mentions the Well.

I just think that the old man is more well-known among the Terris people since he's pretty much leading them, and so wouldn't be some new guy (even if he is disguised as a Terrisman). It would work. If Hoid is among the refugees, he would've seen El and Spook come, and I'll bet he knows exactly who Elend is, and would eavesdrop on whatever El said, just to get more in the loop of what's happening down south and why El isn't in Luthadel...
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Plasman on August 03, 2009, 05:04:07 AM
well brandon says that he makes an actual appearance and that one of the characters notices something odd about him but moves on quickly. the only other refugees specifically mentioned in the scene are the Terrisman who gives the old man and elend tea and the small group of terris soldiers. hoid could be one of these, though i still think it is the old man. he's the only one with a speaking part and despite this, is left without a given name.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: little wilson on August 03, 2009, 05:17:20 AM
Hmm. After re-reading Brandon's answer and El's talk to the old man I think I may have to agree. At first I thought Brandon wouldn't give it away so easily of where to look for Hoid, but...with the way he worded his post, I think he did. The whole "I knew what Hoid had been up to all this time, and had placed him in a position where several characters could run into him" and then continuing about his perceptions of where the Well was...and then learning from the implication.

I would've thought Hoid would make an appearance earlier, but....there are some odd things about the old man:

Quote from:  WoA ppb pg 720
The elderly steward nodded, his head shaking. He didn't seem particularly frail--actually, he had that same air of controlled dignity that most stewards exhibited--but his body had a slow, chronic tremble.

Elend notices it, and then pretty much moves on. Interesting....But yes. I do believe we (or you) have found Hoid. Granted, we needed Brandon's clue, and it would make it that much sweeter if we'd been able to find it ourselves, but oh well (plus I doubt any of us would've thought to consider Hoid as the elderly steward if we hadn't been directed to this section). We still found him. That's good enough.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Plasman on August 03, 2009, 05:36:34 AM
we'll say we both found him  :) though i would like some kind of confirmation before we celebrate. Ookla?
so now the question is, why was he shaking so "oddly"? was he just not used to the climate? is all this planet hopping, shard searching awesomeness having some kind of an effect on his body? was he just cold?
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: little wilson on August 03, 2009, 05:55:55 AM
Sweet. We can share this glory....Although I think it's only right that you get more. Since I doubted it at first. Even if I did come over to the dark side (light side? Hmm...) pretty quick.

Oh, and definitely confirmation is needed. But even if it isn't the elderly steward, it's going to be someone else in this general area. I just think it now makes the most sense that if this IS Hoid's appearance part, it's the steward. Because you're right--he's never named. And that's actually kind of odd as well. But Brandon even said that if he had've given a name, it wouldn't have been Hoid. And he was deeply undercover. All of which fit for the steward.

And yes. That is a very good question. Why is he shaking? I guess it could be the climate...Maybe the sudden change, since they're now traveling south and he's been up in Terris for a while, and adjusted to that climate there....And maybe the sudden warmer climates coupled with the fact that he is pretty old could make him shake....I'm probably wrong about that.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Plasman on August 03, 2009, 06:20:57 AM
i think the answer would be more obvious if we knew more about Hoid's motivations. what is he doing with all of these shards anyway?
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on August 11, 2009, 08:42:35 PM
Hey all, here's the official word from the Brandon Sanderson camp:

The information that Tage revealed a couple pages above should not be taken as canon. Tage is in a position to know more than other people here, but he's still speculatively making some connections that don't quite tell the actual story. Specifically, Hoid's presence in the oldest Dragonsteel book should be considered unconfirmed.

Both Dragonsteel books are non-canon until something gets published, and no one except Brandon has even read the end of LIAR OF PARTINEL—Brandon stopped giving it to the writing group a couple years ago at about the three-quarter mark. While aspects of both books should get published eventually it will be in a markedly different form—which should be very obvious to people who have read the oldest Dragonsteel book once WAY OF KINGS comes out.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Ari54 on August 12, 2009, 04:00:17 AM
Thanks Ookla. :) Out of curiosity, is Dragonsteel or Liar the elder book in that series?
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on August 12, 2009, 06:02:03 AM
Dragonsteel was written earlier, but Liar takes place much earlier.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: firstRainbowRose on August 20, 2009, 06:13:31 AM
IN answer to where Hoid is in WoA: He thought you were pretty much right.  What he meantioned was looking for a line that talks about Elend noticing a guy who seems more comptent then the rest, and after that taking like a paragraph and a half to rantionalize it.  I explained that it was a guy while El was talking to Spook about Vin and he said that sounded pretty much right.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Red, White, and Joker on December 13, 2009, 09:47:26 AM
So... Brandon told me that I needed to hop on the forums and "help pool available resources", as APPARENTLY he's told me something rather relevant that you guys don't know yet about the Hoid phenomenon...

At present time... The one thing that is jumping to my mind is what Hoid says to Siri in Warbreaker:

Quote
“Thank you,” Siri said quietly. “It was good of you to speak of it. Tell me, where did
you lean such an. . .unusual method of storytelling?”

Hoid looked up, smiling. “I learned it many, many years ago from a man who didn’t
know who he was, your majesty. It was a distant place where two lands meet and gods have
died. But that is unimportant.”

As for the place where two lands meet and gods have died, I'm relatively sure that it's not Scadrial. I'm fairly sure that the description is much closer to is the world where Way Of Kings takes place. (firstEggnogToast, would you please remind me of the names of the two places shown on the rough maps that EUOL passed around today?)

He also did mention to me how Hoid gets from world to world. It was an obscure reference at the time (we all know how Brandon is, random words that hold no meaning when he mentions them).. but we'll save that discussion for a later time.  ;)

See if we  can't get some good discussion going on about Hoid again.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Miyabi on December 13, 2009, 10:03:21 AM

0.0

Mr. J. can I get a page number for that. . . It think something may have just hit me.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Red, White, and Joker on December 13, 2009, 10:14:05 AM
It's on page 350. Very end of chapter 32.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Miyabi on December 13, 2009, 10:17:44 AM

Now that I think about it, didn't Hoid go by Topaz for a while?  If so I think I have a good bit about him figured out now. ;]

EDIT:: Gir!  I wonder how fast I could get Dragonsteel again! D: 

EDIT EDIT:: Even if he isn't Topaz I have just figured out A LOT.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Red, White, and Joker on December 13, 2009, 10:30:10 AM
I think that we all have parts of the greater puzzle... We really just need to pool it all together... Take all the crap that is scattered about this thread, and consolidate it into one big post, maybe start a new thread for all that we know about him... and then another with sightings...

And as for Dragonsteel... I recall Brandon saying that he's incorporating parts of it into WoK...
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Miyabi on December 13, 2009, 10:42:01 AM
I think that we all have parts of the greater puzzle... We really just need to pool it all together... Take all the crap that is scattered about this thread, and consolidate it into one big post, maybe start a new thread for all that we know about him... and then another with sightings...

And as for Dragonsteel... I recall Brandon saying that he's incorporating parts of it into WoK...

Yes, which is why I didn't say more.  I also found some other things I had put aside.  I really find Hoid and his motives coming together VERY well in my mind.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Red, White, and Joker on December 13, 2009, 10:47:10 AM
Ah, but what of his means of world jumping? Or is that covered in Dragonsteel?
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Miyabi on December 13, 2009, 10:48:39 AM

I'm pretty sure it's related to something that will be discussed in WoK, at least I'm pretty sure EUOL said the thing I believe he uses for that is addressed there.

EDIT:: And I think it is touched upon in Dragonsteel.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Red, White, and Joker on December 13, 2009, 10:53:53 AM
It will be discussed in WoK, I'm fairly sure of it. Silly EUOL and his noncommittal answers... Ah well, we'll see soon enough.

I'd say more, but I don't wanna go off ruining any of WoK's plot points with my stab-in-the-dark guessing...
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Miyabi on December 13, 2009, 10:57:33 AM

Well, if I remember right he said it WAS going to be there.  At least he told M'ich to ask me about it, but I hadn't heard what he had said right before so I'll have to ask her what was said right before he told her to ask me to be sure.  Plus I need to reread Liar of Partinel and see if I can find the digital copy I have somewhere of Dragonsteel.

BUT I'm pretty sure I understand how he is moving between places and how he does a lot of the things he does, as well as why he does what he does.

EDIT::  No, Hoid couldn't be Topaz.  Topaz wasn't a Lightweaver, and Hoid is for sure.  That's doesn't mean Hoid couldn't use the powers Topaz did have though, nor that Topaz wasn't faking not being a Lightweaver.  Hmmmm.  Much to think about. 
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: firstRainbowRose on December 13, 2009, 08:47:09 PM
I think if I weren't sick (I hate being sick!)  I might be able to help you out.  As for the obscure refernce, didn't EUOL say he used the stormlights or something?

Also, welcome Mr. J.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Miyabi on December 13, 2009, 10:25:55 PM

Yeah eh did.  He said the Stormlight had something to do with it.  What was it you asked him right before EUOL told you to ask me about planar theory?
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: firstRainbowRose on December 13, 2009, 10:45:12 PM
I don't remember what exactly I asked.  But apparently he said that Scaderil is meantioned (not by name) in DS.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Troubadour on December 13, 2009, 11:29:34 PM
Throwing in my two cents:

At first, I thought the "two lands [that] meet" were simply Fjorden and Arelon, because I was dead-set on the Elantrians being the "gods [that] have died." After seeing the concept art for WoK, I'm not so sure. Roshar and Shadesmar and undeniably two lands that meet, and we know for a fact that the Shards can die. Perhaps, then, one or more perishes in the plot of HoK, or at least Stormlight Archive in general?

Gah. Discussion about the Shard Cosmology always gets me excited.

EDIT:
Quote
planar theory

WHOA.
WHOA.
WHOA.

Prediction time. There are multiple Shards of Adonalsium, something originally much greater and unified, yes? And under planar theory, there are multiple planes of existence?

Each Shardworld could possibly be an extraplanar version of the same planet. If Adonalsium was connected to a single world as the Shards are now, then it's conceivable that the world would shatter in a similar manner - many copies of itself with similar properties, but none of them a perfect recreation.

This also makes Hoid's planet-hopping antics a bit more easily imaginable. Rather than actually flying through time and space to different planets, he's simply shifting which plane he's in.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Red, White, and Joker on December 14, 2009, 12:05:34 AM
Roshar and Shadesmar! That's the two!

Yeah. EUOL told me that Hoid uses Shadesmar to get from world to world. That was before I knew that Shadesmar was a place that could me mapped, mind. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that Shadesmar is a place that is an in between place.. A place that is neither here nor there. Check out http://www.inbetweenplaces.com/ for what I'm talking about... The description on that page seems like a likely description of Shadesmar..
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: firstRainbowRose on December 14, 2009, 12:22:15 AM
Actually, the idea of the splitting is a pretty good idea.  (Something that I just thought of that might matter -- what about how he discribed MB and WoK.  He said that MB was the beginning and WoK was in the middle... that sounds important though I'm not sure how.)
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Red, White, and Joker on December 14, 2009, 12:31:42 AM
Does EUOL ever say anything that ISN'T important?
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: firstRainbowRose on December 14, 2009, 12:45:41 AM
Him and Peter both.  *peace sign*  We love you Ook!
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Red, White, and Joker on December 14, 2009, 12:51:46 AM
They seem to both go the route of meaningful, but incomprehensible (until after the fact) unless I'm much mistaken.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on December 14, 2009, 01:13:19 AM
Don't take anything in Dragonsteel as gospel truth, since things will change by the time it gets published. But also don't go talking about its details where people who haven't read it can see, since there are parts of it that will spoil future books.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: firstRainbowRose on December 14, 2009, 01:33:45 AM
Okay, it helps to read things right.  We'll not discuss it out in the open, I promise.  (At least, not pass what's already been written.)
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Red, White, and Joker on December 14, 2009, 01:36:52 AM
Really?  There's stuff that spoils future books?  All he showed was the wolf equal creature, the two maps (a third, but since I can't read my pic it doesn't do much good to me) a few more of the text and a break down.  I don't think there's anything to spoil it... unless you're giving us a hint?

I do believe that Ook was referring to what was contained in the old school dragonsteel, just as what is now called Mistborn Prime has spoilers for WoA.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: firstRainbowRose on December 14, 2009, 01:38:09 AM
Yeah, I got that the second time I read it.

I'd like to say I'm sick, so if I have issues understanding that's why.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Red, White, and Joker on December 14, 2009, 01:39:17 AM
It's all good. TY for the welcome, BTW
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: happyman on December 14, 2009, 04:44:51 AM
OK, I haven't read any of the unpublished works and probably will never be able to.  Is there anything I could read that would make any sense of this debate?
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Miyabi on December 14, 2009, 04:48:29 AM
Don't take anything in Dragonsteel as gospel truth, since things will change by the time it gets published. But also don't go talking about its details where people who haven't read it can see, since there are parts of it that will spoil future books.

Yeah, trying to be careful about what is said.  There is a post I'm thinking about making that would use pieces from Liar, I mean if they look hard enough ANYONE can get part of it, so is that considered . . . something to not be mentioned?  And I was going to make sure to not say anything from DS because I've been told a few times to be careful because of portions of it being in WoK.  EDIT:: I saw somewhere earlier where you said this wasn't cannon yet, so I won't even worry about Liar being involved.

EDIT :: @ Mr. J - There is stuff in DS that is being incorporated into WoK.

EDIT EDIT :: @ TPas - I meant Realmatic Theory, but it runs on a similar track as Planar Theory.  Cognitive, spiritual, and physical.

@Happyman :: Some can be found if you look in the right places.  Look through the forums.  Check out some older things.  Particularly discussion where some of the older people ((I.E. Spriggan, EUOL, etc. still actually conversed. ;]))
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: firstRainbowRose on December 14, 2009, 04:50:05 AM
I haven't read dragonsteel.  We're refering to the published books for the most part.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Red, White, and Joker on December 14, 2009, 05:19:31 AM
The published works, and that which we've inferred by what EUOL has told us at signings.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Miyabi on December 14, 2009, 09:15:34 AM
I have been authorized to reveal that Hoid is, in fact, a connection to a being known in some circles as "Noid" or "The Noid."

You mean THE Noid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVeNr9aE8cU)!?!!??!?!
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Red, White, and Joker on December 14, 2009, 06:54:44 PM
I have been authorized to reveal that Hoid is, in fact, a connection to a being known in some circles as "Noid" or "The Noid."

You mean THE Noid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVeNr9aE8cU)!?!!??!?!


It does say "The Noid"... One can only assume that the Noid in that video, is in fact, Hoid. This is the logical assumption.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Creative_Vortx on December 15, 2009, 08:40:07 PM
I have been authorized to reveal that Hoid is, in fact, a connection to a being known in some circles as "Noid" or "The Noid."

You mean THE Noid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVeNr9aE8cU)!?!!??!?!


It does say "The Noid"... One can only assume that the Noid in that video, is in fact, Hoid. This is the logical assumption.

I see quite the similarity between The Noid & Hoid. They both shake alot & seem.... helpful.... sorta..... not really. BUT THIS IS THE FACT NOW! Noid = Hoid. Because.. if you change one line in the letter H you can make the letter N. This is also fact.

Sorta..

 ??? I confused myself. ???
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Troubadour on December 16, 2009, 08:22:37 AM
I can't read any more Hoid scenes without imagining him as the Noid now. Randomly cracking up in the library thanks to you guys. -_-
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Creative_Vortx on December 16, 2009, 07:05:35 PM
I can't read any more Hoid scenes without imagining him as the Noid now. Randomly cracking up in the library thanks to you guys. -_-

I'ma pull out my laptop and watch a full season of The Office in the library one day and see if I can get through it without getting slammed in the back of my head with a W-Z dictionary tomb.

I do not see this idea turning out well.. for my brain cells that is. I'ma have a friggin' blast watching the office me thinkies. :D
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: KhyEllie on February 06, 2010, 04:48:57 AM
hi. I'm new here.
This is the only place I could find anything on the Hoid phenomenon that I noticed after reading Mistborn and Elantris, and even though I'm not sure of what half the stuff you guys are talking about is, I'm really interested in this Shardworld stuff.
(I can tell by your writing styles that you're all considerably older than I am, so bear with me if I'm not throwing analytical points around) I figure I'll throw my two bits into this discussion:
I noticed that somewhere you were trying to figure out what the six shards are, and I found  Q&A where Sanderson gives the answer to that:
-Ruin, Preservation, Adonalsium, Hoid, BioChroma, and the Dor.
As for the ideas about Hoid being SlowSwift in HoA and the Terris steward in WoA, I think they're both unquestionably true.
Finally, about Hoid's statements on where he learned his storytelling(I just finished Warbreaker) I don't see why those can't apply to Mistborn or Warbreaker itself. Gods die in both and as for the lands coming together, I don't think we know enough history of either world to make a judgement call on it. Could be Hallandren and Vivenna's homeland for all we know. (Hoid was in the future?)
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Patriotic Kaz on February 06, 2010, 05:18:28 AM
Adonalism is the origin of the shards.... or more accurately they are his/ it's remnants. The Dor and Biochroma are magic systems fueled by shards not shards (the voice that speaks to Lightsong is the shard for Warbreaker) .
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: KhyEllie on February 06, 2010, 06:10:28 AM
I was wondering how Adonalsium was a shard when people were calling them 'shards of adonalsium'. Makes sense Brandon wouldn't clear it all up in one sentence.
Mind giving me a refresher on a voice talking to Lightsong?
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Patriotic Kaz on February 06, 2010, 06:56:39 AM
Before his return in "Heaven" he hears a voice give him a command....which is why he gives up his breath (I haven't read it in sometime someone please confirm)
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Chaos on February 06, 2010, 08:37:14 AM
Kaz basically has it right. It's the point near the very end, where Llarimar tells him Lightsong's true past. Then, in the next scene, Lightsong flashes back to the time when he actually died. A "Voice" speaks to him, and tells him to Return.

By the way, that Shard's name is confirmed to be called "Endowment", KhyEllie. Good to have you here.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Terrisman243 on February 08, 2010, 09:21:02 AM
KhyEllie-
One quick thing- Afraid that Slowswift isn't Hoid. He's actually based off of 'Grandpa Tolkein'. Hoid is the whistling beggar that Vin gets spooked off by. (Brandon said this in the HoA thread)
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Mellington the loony Gold Misting on February 09, 2010, 03:43:19 AM
Whistling?  I thought he was humming...
I can confirm that I've read the same thing about Slowswift = Tolkien though.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Chaos on February 09, 2010, 04:25:07 AM
Yup, I definitely remember that as well. Of course, that's because on the MB3 spoiler thread I made the misconception Slowswift was Hoid, and Brandon corrected me. The wound still stings ;)

A small bit of solace comes from not being the only one who made the mistake, I suppose.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Elusive Fehler on February 22, 2010, 05:13:38 AM
So have I read hints on this board that Hoid took a bead of Lerasium from the Well site before Elend did, if so I want to see Mistborn Hoid out flying around sometime.  Or do we think that he has some other use for the Lerasium?
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Miyabi on February 22, 2010, 05:23:29 AM

I'm inclined to believe they took it as a souvenir rather than to use.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Shivertongue on February 22, 2010, 05:46:51 AM
So have I read hints on this board that Hoid took a bead of Lerasium from the Well site before Elend did, if so I want to see Mistborn Hoid out flying around sometime.  Or do we think that he has some other use for the Lerasium?

Well, isn't Lerasium a piece of Preservations body, just as Atium is a piece of Ruin? Maybe he's gathering shards of the shards of Adonalsium...
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Elusive Fehler on February 22, 2010, 03:27:11 PM

I'm inclined to believe they took it as a souvenir rather than to use.


Now I am stuck with the idea that Hoid is gong around to beef up his shard souvenir collection(read like stamp collection).  So he now has a super rare piece of Leras right before Leras died.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Raphael on February 28, 2010, 06:34:00 AM
Here's my theory on Hoid. :P

I shall assume Adonalsium was sentient. For all intents and purposes, let's compare it to a crystal. A sentient, magical crystal. When Adonalsium was "broken" into shards, however that may have happened, the sentience of the crystal was not. It carried through to each shard, and on each planet the shard is on, the sentience of the crystal manifests itself in the civilizations. These manifestations are Hoid.

Poke holes in as you will. :D
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Natalie Perkins on March 02, 2010, 10:52:53 PM
Raphael -
I like the whole sentient idea. But I think it would be cool if Hoid somehow "knew" Adonalsium or of it's power or something of the like. And he's planet hopping trying to put it all together to have magnificent awesomeness ensue.
Kind of like Kagome and Inuyasha searching for Shards of the Shikon Jewel, perhaps?
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Raphael on March 03, 2010, 03:31:19 AM
Raphael -
I like the whole sentient idea. But I think it would be cool if Hoid somehow "knew" Adonalsium or of it's power or something of the like. And he's planet hopping trying to put it all together to have magnificent awesomeness ensue.
Kind of like Kagome and Inuyasha searching for Shards of the Shikon Jewel, perhaps?
Go InuYasha. :D

I like your idea as well. :D
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: zarepath on March 04, 2010, 01:53:28 PM
So there's supposedly a super evil shard in WoK, and I remember reading once (I think) that the shards all kind of oppose each other, like Ruin/Preservation.  (Confirmation on that note?)

After reading Brandon's summary of WoK's back story, and how the Voidbringers are trying to pull men into Damnation, I'm wondering if Damnation is the name of the super evil shard in WoK (since it's all capitalized and all).  It seems to fit the mold for shards (Ruin, Preservation, Endowment, Damnation), and I can totally see there being an opposing shard called Salvation. 

Thoughts?

Also, if that dual shard theory is legit, what would be the shard opposing Endowment? 
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: douglas on March 04, 2010, 03:30:46 PM
Also, if that dual shard theory is legit, what would be the shard opposing Endowment? 
Deprivation?
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: firstRainbowRose on March 04, 2010, 06:45:16 PM
I like the idea of damnation and salvation.  However, that's not what I was told.

Though, I REALLY like the idea of those two.  I would love to see them being some of the shards.  But it's not the most dangerous shard... *wink*
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Ari54 on March 07, 2010, 09:40:17 AM
I'd like to think that Brandon wouldn't always be so predictable as to pair off his superpowerful cosmic beings. :)
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Natalie Perkins on March 07, 2010, 03:46:40 PM
I'd like to think that Brandon wouldn't always be so predictable as to pair off his superpowerful cosmic beings. :)
Well maybe it's not in super obvious ways for all of them; I prefer patterns to just random shards surreptitiously placed in each world. Again with the whole Inuyasha thing, they keep searching for shards in random monsters, there is no rhyme or reason to it and that drives me insane!
And Brandon’s magic systems always run on rhyme, reason, and patterns. They’re never omniscient and all powerful like Gandalf, Dumbledore (in the movies), and Superman.
And I like that there are limitations, it makes the books so much more... palpable? (that may not be the word I'm looking for but it's all I can think of 8:46 am)
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Miyabi on March 07, 2010, 05:22:15 PM

HOLY NATALIE PERKINS!

Yo haven't been on in like . . . forever!  Welcome back.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Ari54 on March 07, 2010, 11:25:01 PM
Oh, I'm not suggesting there not be patterns, I'm suggesting my confidence  that there will be a pattern of patterns, or some underlying rules, that gives us reason to be surprised at the forces in play when we encounter shards.
Title: Re: Hoid??
Post by: Natalie Perkins on March 12, 2010, 02:00:04 AM

HOLY NATALIE PERKINS!

Yo haven't been on in like . . . forever!  Welcome back.


Thanks Miyabi! It feels so good to be welcomed =) *hugs self*