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Departments => Books => Topic started by: WriterDan on January 27, 2007, 12:34:00 AM

Title: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: WriterDan on January 27, 2007, 12:34:00 AM
Okay, so I've been in a rut lately of finding books to read that just don't grab me.  So much of what I have recently found has either been incredibly boring, poorly written, or a half-and-half blend of the two.  So,for anyone that cares to say so, I'd like to know what the best book that you've ever read is.  I mean hands down, bar none, absolute most fantastical book you've ever read.  No restrictions whatsoever -- seriously, any kind of book.  But, in your opinion, I want the best.  Give em to me.

Mine:  The Darkness that Comes Before -- R. Scott Bakker
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: The Jade Knight on January 27, 2007, 02:05:19 PM
Le petit prince
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Archon on January 28, 2007, 05:06:34 PM
Mistborn by Brandon Sanderson
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: MsFish on January 28, 2007, 10:00:26 PM
I'll second Archon's.  Mistborn was indeed one of the best books I've ever read. 


I'll add Speak by Laurie Halse Anderson, Kitty and the Midnight Hour by Carrie Vaughn, and Taming the Star Runner by S.E. Hinton.  They're very different books, but some of my VERY favorites.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Spriggan on January 28, 2007, 10:10:30 PM
humm, interesting, do you consider the best book you've ever read the book that wowed you the most when you read it years ago even though it may not stand up as well now-a-days (because my tastes tend to change slightly from month to month) or do you only say it has to be something you've read in your current mindset?

If it's #1 it would be either the Dragonlance Trilogy by Weiss and Hickman (when I was 13ish), Magician series by Fiest (when I was 16) or Wizard's First Rule by Goodkind (18), though I'd also add Wizard's Second Rule was the worst book I've ever read and I'm comparing that against textbooks.

If it's #2 it would half to be Information Architecture for Designers by Van Dijck (a few days ago).  I don't read a lot of books, and I also don't like to ever have a "best" or "favorite" book, movie, song because there are so many factors that one could choose for a best (best what?  Paper used? color scheme?) so I never bother thinking in these terms anymore.  There's "I like" and "really like" or "impressed me" and that's about it.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: The Jade Knight on January 28, 2007, 10:26:39 PM
I didn't think Wizard's Second Rule was that bad.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Spriggan on January 28, 2007, 10:45:21 PM
Excuse me if I don't find pointless explicit sexual torture as a good read.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: The Jade Knight on January 29, 2007, 01:01:34 AM
I didn't say I thought it was that good, either.

But, compared to some of the Warhammer novels…
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Spriggan on January 29, 2007, 01:15:50 AM
I think the thing missing from these resent posts is "I've read" meaning it's all opinion based of what you personally have read.  I read Wizard's second rule (well most of it, I couldn't finish) back in 97 and the only fiction I've been able to read since then has been Elantris and Mistborn, the book was so bad (to me) that it ruined not only a whole genera but my desire to actually read for entertainment.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: dreamking47 on January 29, 2007, 04:06:12 AM
Mine:  The Darkness that Comes Before -- R. Scott Bakker

Have you tried Steven Erikson's Malazan books -- the first is Gardens of the Moon?  It's another edgy, different take on epic fantasy.

I don't think of books in terms of "best," more in terms of how well they do what they set out to do.  How could I compare the OED (not that I've read it all!) to a children's book like Gray's Grimbold's Other World to a humor book like The Onion's Our Dumb Century to a fantasy like Beagle's The Last Unicorn to a non-fiction like Johnson's Interface Culture to a postmodern fable such as Calvino's If on a winter's night a traveler to essays like Birkerts's Gutenberg Elegies to a classic like Bulgakov's Master and Margarita to collections of short stories such as those by Borges to...

Well, you see the problem.  If you can list a few more examples of books you've liked, though, maybe I can suggest more that may be similar.

MattD
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: dawncawley on January 29, 2007, 05:28:36 AM
Best fantasy this year, or last year for that matter, would be Mistborn. I loved it, and am anxiously awaiting the second installment.

But, if I had to say favorite book ever, I don't think I could.... the one that got me hooked on novels, would be Gone With the Wind by Margaret Mitchell. Don't laugh.... I still find myself going back to that, and the sequel Scarlett by Alexandra Ripley, every now and again like a favorite old pair of slippers.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on January 29, 2007, 02:49:10 PM
The Power and the Glory (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0142437301/theofficitime-20) by Graham Greene
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Nessa on January 29, 2007, 04:15:44 PM
This may not be your cup of tea, but my favorite book of all time is In Pursuit of the Green Lion (http://www.amazon.com/Pursuit-Green-Lion-Margaret-Ashbury/dp/0307237885) by Judith Merkle Riley, my second favorite being the first in the triology, A Vision of Light (http://www.amazon.com/Vision-Light-Margaret-Ashbury-Trilogy/dp/0307237877/sr=8-1/qid=1170083471). The third FINALLY came out this week and I'm heading to the store today to get myself a copy (which means you'll soon be seeing a review of it here on TWG--probably of the triology).

It's historical fiction, with some romace (without being graphic or sappy), and mystical elements. I just love her writing style. And the characters are wonderful.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Aen Elderberry on January 29, 2007, 05:45:45 PM
The "Best" seems to change depending on what's on my mind.  A few weeks ago it might have been

Ben Hur  by Lew Wallace (though I read it when I was 14 it still comes to mind often)

but today it's

Illusions: Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Sigyn on January 29, 2007, 08:43:22 PM
If I could only keep one work of fiction that I own, it would have to be Howl's Moving Castle by Diana Wynne Jones. My sister read this to me when I was five, and I've loved it ever since.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Onion of Death on January 30, 2007, 04:02:14 PM
Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert A. Heinlein.

Followed closely by Koushun Takami's Battle Royale and Mistborn/Elantris by Brandon Sanderson. 
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: WriterDan on January 30, 2007, 07:54:21 PM
Wowsers.  So, I love the fact that I've gotten so many responses to this.  I'd like to make a couple comments, if I may, based on this initial response.

humm, interesting, do you consider the best book you've ever read the book that wowed you the most when you read it years ago even though it may not stand up as well now-a-days (because my tastes tend to change slightly from month to month) or do you only say it has to be something you've read in your current mindset?

If it's #1 it would be either the Dragonlance Trilogy by Weiss and Hickman (when I was 13ish), Magician series by Fiest (when I was 16) or Wizard's First Rule by Goodkind (18), though I'd also add Wizard's Second Rule was the worst book I've ever read and I'm comparing that against textbooks.

If it's #2 it would half to be Information Architecture for Designers by Van Dijck (a few days ago).  I don't read a lot of books, and I also don't like to ever have a "best" or "favorite" book, movie, song because there are so many factors that one could choose for a best (best what?  Paper used? color scheme?) so I never bother thinking in these terms anymore.  There's "I like" and "really like" or "impressed me" and that's about it.

Spriggan:  I think that you captured the essence of what I was hoping for in this reply.  There is definitely a shift in mindset as we grow and as we read more.  At some point, there is always a "best" book that we could sound off on.  I think, according to your categories, I'm looking for "impressed me".  In this case, I especially appreciated your age brackets of when you read them.  I'd also encourage you to try fiction again.  Don't let Goodkind scare you off.  He's a freak of nature, and authors like him (I would like to think) don't come up very often.


Have you tried Steven Erikson's Malazan books -- the first is Gardens of the Moon?  It's another edgy, different take on epic fantasy.

MattD

MattD, I have tried Erikson's stuff.  I read the first book and got the feeling that something was missing, but I couldn't put my finger on it.  When I was about 100 pages into the second book I figured it out:  I didn't care.  I didn't care about any of his characters or what was happening.  I didn't feel like I really understood anything about what was even occurring in the story.  When something big happened, I was thinking "So what?"  Yes, this series is huge, and it's amazingly complex, and it's actually quite well written too.  I just couldn't make myself care about the story at all.  So, I passed on this one.  Thanks for the thought though.

And for everyone else, keep em coming.  List your greats!  You have a needy reader out here.  Help me and others like me who yearn for great material!
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Spriggan on January 30, 2007, 09:19:12 PM
eh quite frankly I just don't care to read fiction anymore, there's so much that I could be doing instead of reading a slow moving story.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Parker on January 31, 2007, 04:50:12 PM
Gardens of the Moon impressed me quite a bit, actually.  Of the fantasy books I've read recently, it's by far the one that stuck with me.  Although Mistborn 3 has me pretty intrigued right now, and depending on how it ends, it could well go up on this list, too.

As for best books I've read recently (I hate absolutes), I'll give a shout out to some YA fantasy.  The Lightning Thief by Rick Riordan was extremely well done, and I've been enjoying The Last Apprentice series, as welll.

And for good measure, the best book I've ever read would be A Tale of Two Cities--I thought it was fantastically done, and it's one of the few books that after I finished, I just went, "Wow."
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Fellfrosch on February 01, 2007, 08:09:27 PM
The best book I've ever read, with no restrictions on genre, would be Les Miserables. Followed closely by The Hunchback of Notre Dame (I'm a big Hugo fan), The Heart of Darkness, King Lear (technically a play, but I read it, so I count it), and Dune.

Now I am a huge fantasy fan, and the genre has some incredible writing, but I weep for anyone who lists a pulp fantasy as the best book they've ever read. Seriously, get out and read some more books.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: dawncawley on February 06, 2007, 12:56:31 AM
Fell, I love King Lear, and didn't think to add it since it is a play, and one of many that I have read and enjoyed. I happen to own The Collective Works of Shakespeare, but since it is many plays, with some poetry, I guess I never took them into account individually. Perhaps I should, and maybe give my favorites another thought :)
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: dreamking47 on February 06, 2007, 03:36:34 PM
Weren't Shakespeare's plays generally regarded as the "pulp fantasy" of their time?

I do second the mentions of Les Miserables and Tale of Two Cities, although I read both more than a decade ago.

If we're including plays in our definition of book allow me to suggest poetry as well: a volume of T. S. Eliot's work might be up there in my "best" list.

dan_gaiden, these are not meant as "the best" or as related, but have you read anything by Roger Zelazny (in particular the Amber chronicles), M. John Harrison, K.J. Bishop, or Martha Wells?

MattD
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Nessa on February 06, 2007, 04:56:02 PM
Now I am a huge fantasy fan, and the genre has some incredible writing, but I weep for anyone who lists a pulp fantasy as the best book they've ever read. Seriously, get out and read some more books.

While this is true, it does sound snobby.  ;)
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: WriterDan on February 06, 2007, 06:38:58 PM
To MattD:

Zelany is actually the only one that sounds familiar out of that group.  Are most of those Sci-Fi authors?  For the most part, I tend to stray towards Fantasy more often when given the choice.  I would be interested in reading a good Sci-Fi book though.  I read Dune recently (within the last year) for the first time and loved it.  Do you have any favorites that those authors have written?  I have a ton of books that I want to read, but I will usually will give at least one book from new authors a read to decide if I want to read any of their other work.

To Fell:
So would you suggest the unabridged version of Les Mis, or the abridged?  I've always been intimidated by the size of the unabridged book...  Still, most of the classics (such as you suggested) are still on my "To Read" list.

To Parker:
Been wanting to read Tale of Two Cities for a while now.  I'll move it up my list.  Also, I haven't had much luck with YA fantasy.  Maybe I'll swing another chance in that direction with your suggestions.  Thanks.

Dan
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: pengwenn on February 06, 2007, 06:48:07 PM
My brother recommended Lord Foul's Bane by Stephen R. Donaldson to me several times before I finally broke down and read it.  I wish I had read it sooner (I was in high school).  I reread this series every couple of years.

I know the Dark Tower series gets a little wonky at the end but I loved reading The Gunslinger by Stephen King (the original one not the one that he revised to make it fit the ending).

I'm assuming you've already read Ender's Game, Speaker for the Dead and Xenoside by Orson Scott Card.  Every sci fi fan should read those.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: dreamking47 on February 06, 2007, 08:11:17 PM
Zelany is actually the only one that sounds familiar out of that group.  Are most of those Sci-Fi authors?  [...] Do you have any favorites that those authors have written?

Some of the authors I mentioned have written both fantasy and science fiction, but I was thinking of them for their works of fantasy (although in some cases there's a fine line between the two).  If I had to place them in rough order of recommendation, I would do it thusly:

Zelazny -- his first Chronicles of Amber is a fantasy classic (the first book is "Nine Princes in Amber", or look for the collection "The Great Book of Amber").  First person POV of a man who wakes up without any memory, and slowly discovers he's the heir to the primal kingdom of which our world and legends are just shadows.  If you've read Steven Brust's Vlad Taltos books (have you? if not, they're well worth a read, too) then Zelazny's characterization of Corwin is similar, sarcastic and introspective.

Martha Wells -- my favorite fantasy writer that nobody knows about.  If you like Brandon Sanderson's books you might like hers: single-volume fantasies set in richly imagined worlds without tropes like dwarves and dragons; not too dark; often a dash of romance.  "Death of the Necromancer" (not as cheesy as it sounds, was a Nebula Award nominee) is a good place to begin as long as you don't mind a bit of Sherlock Holmes pastiche; otherwise look into "Wheel of the Infinite," a fantasy with a Southeast Asian influence.  First few chapters of each are online at http://www.marthawells.com/.

K.J. Bishop -- I thought of her "Etched City" because it's another somewhat gritty, morally ambiguous take on fantasy, like Bakker, but has better defined characters than Erikson and a more streamlined story (although without any sort of strong "quest object").  First chapter (which doesn't really do the book justice) is online at http://www.fantasticmetropolis.com/i/etched/full/.

M. John Harrison -- I mentioned him because his Viriconium fantasy books (collected in the volume "Viriconium") attempt to deconstruct epic fantasy, sort of like what Bakker does.  Gorgeous writing and deeply thoughtful but not the best choice if you want strongly defined characters or plotting.

MattD
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Fellfrosch on February 08, 2007, 12:47:54 AM
I would recommend the unabridged, primarily because many of my favorite sections were the non-story digressions: every now and then Hugo will take a forty-page break from Jean Valjean and talk about Waterloo, or sewers, or quicksand, and even though it's only a tangent to the rest of the book it's some of his best writing. Be forewarned that the book opens with one of these: instead of getting right into the plot, he spends several chapters establishing how awesome the priest is. It's an odd, archaic style of novel-writing, but I enjoyed it once I got used to it.

Nessa: yes, I know it sounded snobby. I tried to write a version that didn't, and it was too hard. I figure I can sound snobby every once in a while.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on February 08, 2007, 03:33:58 PM
that's exactly why I *hated* Les Mis. I recommend the abridged version

Of course, you also like Dickins, who I find to be impossibly dry and insipidly affectionate.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Swiggly on March 02, 2007, 06:16:33 AM
That would definitely be Mistborn by Brandon Sanderson [Euol if you don't know...which is like...impossible] I never thought I could read a better book than Elantris until Mistborn came out. I was amazed...simply amazed. He's always had the most unique magic systems I've ever encountered. Good religions as well, a lot to choose from. I never get tired of reading Warbreaker every week or even re-reading Elantris and Mistborn.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Phaz on March 02, 2007, 10:30:43 PM
I'd have to say the Harry Potter series would be my answer.  Mainly because without it, it's very unlikely I would of read any of the others.  I am a person who is easily entertained, and who really enjoys a good story, I just had no idea that was the case until I finally listened to a good friend and picked up the series.  I doubt I'll re-read anything in my life more than I have already done with this series.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: bittersweet010102 on April 15, 2007, 11:37:43 PM
hmm... well Mistborn by Brandon Sanderson is my favourite overall. but theres so much books ive read... i dont remember half of them...
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Natalie Perkins on June 12, 2007, 04:18:03 AM
I don't mean to be repetitive and redundant, but there is no denying it Mistborn by Brandon Sanderson, that was truly THEE best book I've ever read,
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: sbwtwo on October 01, 2007, 08:25:03 PM
I'm kind of fond of Modesitt's Recluce series, but of the long list of titles, I would say the Fall of Angels was the best and my favorite.  I recommend it to any and all--it can stand alone even though it's part of a larger series.  Kind of a cross between Sci-Fi and Fantasy (starts out as Sci-Fi and makes the transition to Fantasy), Modesitt has a knack for taking the good vs evil theme and turning it on its head.  I'm also partial to his Corean Chronicles (the first three, less so for the last three). 

Others have mentioned Dune and I agree for sci-fi, though I'm typically not a big sci-fi fan.

But I'm also a sucker for a lot of Jane Austen and find Persuasion to be my all time fave followed by Emma and Pride and Prejudice.

And LeGuin's Earthsea trilogy (the first three of this series) was really compelling (and short).

I just discovered Sanderson's Elantris and Mistborn series and am very happily devouring them.

For me, it's all about escape and feeling good about someone else learning, developing, succeeding.

Ciao.

-sbwtwo

Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: charity on October 10, 2007, 10:12:49 PM
fantasy- I'm going to agree with the general cenus Mistborn is excellent!
non-fiction- try Reading Lolita in Tehran  or  3 weeks with my brother by Nicholas Sparks, this is a very funny book about his life and I laughed... alot
Classic- try Journey to the Center of the Earth, I read this in 9th grade and loved it, even then.

that's all I can think of now but give me an hour and I'll have a list of twenty books... and no dinner ready ;)
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: peacesells on March 17, 2008, 12:01:58 PM
First post for me:

These are a few books that I've read that I could just not put down.  (Most of these were read years ago.)

Shogun - James Clavelle
The Blue Adept series - (Piers Anthony)  Read the trilogy in a weekend...(I was 17)
The Riftwar saga - Raymond Feist...even better were the books he did with Janny Wurts called The Empire trilogy.
Wizards First Rule - Terry Goodkind  (great book...although the author is a pompous fool)
Lord Fouls bane - Stephen Donaldson  (What a great concept for a fantasy book. His Gap series is good as well.)

And the king of all book/series.  The Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan. Nothing gets better than this...Can't wait to see what Brandon does with the last book.

**for complete fun and 1 sitting reads...Robert Aspirins Myth Inc series and his Phules Company series are great.**

Peace
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: flex on May 24, 2008, 02:16:08 AM
sbwtwo---Fantastic post, I love the recluse saga, it is very engaging and I find myself slipping into another world. The only problem with the saga is that after each book I find myself wanting to change professions..a wood carver, a blacksmith etc... I am also fond of the Black company series by Glen Cook. It can be a little Trippy at times but I still found it a fun read and a Great change Of pace.

As for best ever I fall back to the two series that introduced me not only to reading Fantasy/Sci-Fi, but to reading and writing in general. The Lord of the Rings and the Wheel of Time series. I know that everyone has read both series but I still had to mention them as they had such a large impact on me. The way Tolkein painted the portrait in my mind still sends chills down my arms. And the way Jordan wove his complex character arcs makes me thank the Gods that I Listened to the recommendation of my local Barnes and Nobel rep.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Hoeya on June 25, 2008, 09:49:46 PM
Mistborn was definitely a good book, but it is not my favorite. It really depends, but as far as the fantasy genre, I'd have to say The Deed of Paksenarrion by Elizebeth Moon. The world is immersive, the characters are well-developed and there is quite a lot of detail in the way the stories are told.

Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Comfortable Madness on June 26, 2008, 01:32:29 PM
Hmmmm favorite book all time? That's a tough one. The Eye of the World& Red Storm Rising are a couple that are up there on my list. The one that might stand out as my favorite very well could be The Long Walk by Richard Bachman aka Stephen King. I just couldn't put that book down and the story just stays with me.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Lazarus404 on July 02, 2008, 06:49:33 PM
Excuse me if I don't find pointless explicit sexual torture as a good read.

I actually thought the Wizards Second Rule was well written, as are all of Goodkinds books. However, you are right, I think he has a few issues ;)

Oh, btw, mine has to be "The Eye of the World". Granted, a lot of people would say that, but the Wheel of Time books have always just done it for me. The only time I've ever cried while reading a book was the part where Perrin found out his parents were murdered by Trollocs. No one can write like Jordan did!

Course, I have yet to read Brandon's books
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Comatose on July 05, 2008, 08:15:29 PM
Definately, Mistborn: Final Empire, althoughI haven't read Warbreaker at all.  I think Final Empire is the best of brandon's published books that are out so far, but I am expecting a lot from heroes of ages.

Aside from that, I really like Chronicles of Narnia, Garth Nix's Keys to the Kingdom was decent, and View from the Mirror be Ian Irvine was decent as well, and that is his best quartet that I've read, the other ones kind of go down hill.

Oh, and Stardust was amazing!  I can't believ I forgot it, and it's a stand alone which is a plus, I think that's either second to Mistborn and Elantris(same author same place), or third the chronicles of narnia.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Icefyre on July 07, 2008, 11:17:16 PM
The best books I've read are, of course, the Wheel of Time series, the Otherworld series by Tad Williams, Robin Hobb's Farseer trilogy, and George R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire series, which is incredible.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Miyabi on July 08, 2008, 04:56:37 PM
Mine was Elantris - Brandon Sanderson.

There was so much philosophy about the multitude of ways people try to gain power over others, and how people fear the unknown.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Comatose on August 18, 2008, 04:53:04 AM
Me and my dad did a book exchange, because we have totally different styles, he gave me some Tolstoy to read, I gave him Elantris.  I finished long before him of course (he's still going).  I thought the book was well written but I was kind of board with it, and the characters got confusing because there was so many.  My dad is really liking Elantris so far which is great because he never reads fantasy.  I think it's the Mennonite in him.  Then again, it's all I read so there you go.  I think he likes it though for the worldbuilding and all the political stuff, which is kind of like what he normally reads, but still, I'm hoping to make a Brandon convert out of him yet!  It just goes to prove how good his books are!
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Miyabi on August 18, 2008, 06:52:14 AM
I LOVE Tolstoy.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Comatose on August 21, 2008, 02:34:12 AM
He's a good writer, and his stories are very well written, and  make wonderful points, with their hidden meanings and such.  I read the Forged Coupon, which was good.  It just didn't... do it for me I guess.  I got through the book, I can acknowledge it's well written, but I didn't like it very much.  Guess that's just personal preference for ya.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: bovine_blue on September 07, 2008, 09:55:47 AM
The Book of the New Sun - Gene Wolfe
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: CthulhuKefka on September 09, 2008, 08:25:30 PM
"Best" is really subjective to taste, but I'll lend my thoughts (even though they've already been pretty much already mentioned lol).

To go along with a point that was mentioned, for me at least, I know that my definition of "the best" book has varied as I got older.

When I was three years old, at least once a year until I was old enough to read them myself, my dad would read me the Lord of the Rings trilogy. His father read it to him, and I will read it to my child if I ever have one. That takes the childhood favorite category, although I still consider it one of the best I've ever read.

In my high school years I went off on a reading binge and started reading anything and everything I could get my grubby hands on.  ;D I think out of that era, I'd have to say Les Miserables took the cake on that one. And yes, the unabridged version. At the time it was like nothing I had ever read and I loved it. Along with that, I would have to say the original Dragonlance Chronicles (Autumn Twilight/Winter night/Spring Dawning/Summer Flame). Another high school fave was The Matarese Circle by Robert Ludlum.

And yes, I'll admit it too, Elantris/Mistborn top the list for right now.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: GreenMonsta on September 09, 2008, 09:29:18 PM
Faith of the Fallen- Terry Goodkind.

As I have so far noticed there doesn't seem to be a lot of Goodkind fans who post here so I wont get too deep. This was the sixth book in the Sword of Truth series and my favorite. The series involved a lot of political intrigue, action (both third person and third), personal strife. This book imparticular had a lot of special meaning and drive behind it. Amazing read.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: BurnPewter on September 10, 2008, 01:00:26 AM
I'd have to say the Hero of Ages.

Never in my life have I experienced anything like this book.  Nothing compares.  Not even Harry Potter 7, which had years of anticipation building.   The emotional impact that HoA had on me is indescribable, which is probably good, because if I could describe it, it might imply some small spoilers :)
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: GreenMonsta on September 10, 2008, 01:23:55 AM
Oh come on, another alpha reader on the forum. Sweet all we need is another Ook running around stirring the pot and messing with our heads. Although I would miss Ook if he left, come on really?
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: BurnPewter on September 10, 2008, 01:31:26 AM
Oh come on, another alpha reader on the forum. Sweet all we need is another Ook running around stirring the pot and messing with our heads. Although I would miss Ook if he left, come on really?

Technically I"m not an alpha reader.  I just fortunate fan who recently was given a copy to read.  There are a few of them floating around out there :)

Don't worry, I won't be another Ook, cruelly dangling things in front of your face.  I do enjoy those threads though :)
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: GreenMonsta on September 10, 2008, 01:42:52 AM
Well now that hurts even more. Its slightly reassuring that you wont be tempting us with the things you know even though it can be fun. Its worse that your not an alpha and instead your a fan like us who for some lucky reason was given the chance to have the book early. Might I persuade you to maybe send it over to boston? I mean I would probably go the route of Ook if I had privlaged info but that would be fun for all so who can it hurt.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: JCHancey on September 17, 2008, 01:50:36 AM
Ender's Game. Nothing compares, well maybe I Am America (And So Can You!) but Ender's game takes it all.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Miyabi on September 17, 2008, 07:40:08 AM
That is definitely one of my favorites. The rest of the series was slow and not nearly as good, even though Card ONLY wrote Ender's Game because he needed the prequel of Xenocide in order for it to make sense.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Hanami on September 18, 2008, 07:31:43 PM
Oh, well... for me, it was the "Time Master" trilogy, by Louise Cooper. They've been republished recently by Mundania, so I finally achieved my goal of having them in the three languages I can read - that is, Spanish, French and English. Something funny happens with thoose books, though. I believe the Spanish translation is better than the original, it's the only one case I know of!
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: kevinpii on September 18, 2008, 08:39:54 PM
for me it allways depends on the mood I'm in. but id have to say that my favorite all time book is the count of Monte cristo. i have to say that I'm really impressed at all the people who read the classics here i really thought id see only fantasy readers.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Hanami on September 18, 2008, 09:21:09 PM
for me it allways depends on the mood I'm in. but id have to say that my favorite all time book is the count of Monte cristo. i have to say that I'm really impressed at all the people who read the classics here i really thought id see only fantasy readers.

Well, being a fantasy reader doesn't mean you don't read other genres too, does it? For example, I like the book you've mentioned, but I still think that Alexandre Dumas did his best with "The Three Musketeers", and its continuations. It's only that I would say that no classic is the "best book I've ever read"... mainly because of the differences that are between that society and ours. But, if you consider Oscar Wilde as a classic, I do love his books, especially his tales, and if we have to go far deeper in history... well, there is "The tale of Genji", by Murasaki Shikibu, or "Dream of the Red Chamber", by Cao Xueqin. Those two are some of my favourites, and a really good example af how good Asian literature can be. Oh, and the "Coplas a la muerte de su padre" ("Stanzas on his father's death") by Jorge Manrique, if we talk about Spanish literature.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: SarahG on September 18, 2008, 09:32:03 PM
I'm with kevinpii, The Count of Monte Cristo is quite a bit more enjoyable than The Three Musketeers.  However, I have no desire to read either of those (or, for that matter, Les Miserables) unabridged.  The verbal detours are way too longwinded and irrelevant for the modern palette - or at least for mine.

OK, it's time for all you purists to tell me what a short attention span I have.  ;)
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Hanami on September 18, 2008, 09:55:19 PM
Well, I liked both of them, but I guess I'm more of a get-a-sword-and-solve-things-out person (now is when you read the other books I mentioned and start laughing). I don't like reading if it isn't unabridged, though, too many things change when people want to cut or change things from the original. But it's my opinion, as well as yours, and the fact is, first time I read "The Three Musketeers" it was abridged. Well... I was five years old by then, so... I believe I can be forgiven. But better reading an abridged version than not reading it at all, don't you think?

I haven't read "Les Miserables"... I should...
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: readerMom on September 19, 2008, 07:29:41 PM
Quote
I haven't read "Les Miserables"... I should...

I read the unabridged version one summer in a friend's hammock while everyone else was off working and I was taking a semester off.  It was the perfect way to read such a long, complex and good book.  I haven't tried anything so ambitious since because I moved away from the hammock and don't get summers off anymore :(
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: kevinpii on September 19, 2008, 08:09:28 PM

The three musketeers is a good book don't get me wrong but in the continuations its easy to get bogged down. the Comte de bragalone really took me a while, the first 100 pages were great but after that i couldn't wait for it to be over.  if your really into sword fighting classics try Rafael Sabatini. I can vouch for captain blood, or Scaramouche, either is a very good read. I also loved Ivan Hoe by Sir Walter Scott. If i run out of books to read, I read Sherlock homes stories you just cant beat a who dun it story.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Hanami on September 19, 2008, 10:35:31 PM
"Scaramouche" I loved. Same with "Ivanhoe". I read all the Sherlock Holmes novels a loong time ago, and I can't re-read them quite yet because my memory keeps pestering me... I always remember who the assassin was and how he did it. Annoying.

Anyway, I liked "The Comte of Bragelonne", even if it isn't one of my favourite reads.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Silenced Parrot on September 20, 2008, 12:14:22 AM
Simply because I've only recently gotten back into reading, and catching up on books, my current favorite is Wheel of Time and I'm anxiously awaiting the last installment, while I finish the eleventh book. :-\

I definitely need to read more and some of the books you guys have posted look interesting, so I've got some work to do.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: zchance on November 07, 2008, 06:30:45 AM
I know it's been almost two years since the comment was made but I don't think I'll be able to sleep tonight unless I respond to the idea that "pulp fantasy" or pulp anything for that matter is unworthy by any standard against so called "classic" works. You take any novel written before 1900 that is still being read today and it was, in its own time, just as frivolous, just as unworthy. Anyone who gets really exposed to shakespeare generally learns to love his writing, but let's face it, he was writing the equivalent of "days of our lives" for his time. His audience wasn't the intellectual elite but the underclass.

Fiction for the masses is what has endured, precisely because it had broad appeal, and so beloved it was passed from generation to generation. The great classic literature 200 years from now will likely include names like Stephen King and Robert Heinlein. While many so-called "important" writers' names will be long forgotten.

As for me, I don't know how anyone chooses a single book as their favorite. Reading the many wonderful titles put forth I recognized several that were my "favorite". One thing is for sure, the same names came up over and over again, and I think our many greats grandchildren will recognize those names just as easily.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: The Jade Knight on November 09, 2008, 02:25:22 PM
Methinks you're confusing "pulp" with "popular".  King is not "pulp" in any sense that I'm aware of.  The Warhammer novels, to provide a counter-example, generally are.  Shakespeare was also not pulp; he was no Disney sequel.  He was more the "Titanic" of his day:  Nothing brilliant or revolutionary, but just terribly popular.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on November 11, 2008, 07:43:33 AM
I would disagree. Shakespeare was popular because he appealed to the masses; true. But he endured because he appealed to more than just the masses. His plays were written on many different levels and appealed to all classes. The masses watched the plays on the floor of the theater, but the rich people watched from the expensive boxes too. Remember, this guy was the king's own playwright.

Shakespeare was dang good and deserves his reputation.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: The Jade Knight on November 12, 2008, 11:22:32 AM
I disagree.  Shakespeare was immensely popular among all classes, yes.  He was not pulp, no.  But his writing really was not terribly clever or brilliant; more stylistically and thematically complicated stuff had been written by Chaucer, frankly.  Not to mention the fact that Shakespeare borrowed all of his stories…

Like I said, he's about on par with "Titanic".
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Loud_G on November 12, 2008, 07:27:57 PM
Except that he wrote a "Titanic" in just about every genre possible. I don't think the writers of Titanic ever produced anything even approaching its success again.

(Though I disagree fundamentally with the comparison to Titanic, I'm just using it here for comparison)
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: The Jade Knight on November 13, 2008, 09:40:49 AM
Shakespeare worked in a total of 2 genres:  Comedy, and Tragedy.  Some of his plays virtually repeat themselves.  Chaucer, on the other hand, worked in many, many genres.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Loud_G on November 13, 2008, 04:14:59 PM
Shakespeare worked in a total of 2 genres:  Comedy, and Tragedy.  Some of his plays virtually repeat themselves. 

Not true. I mean yes, they were all either comedy or Tragedy, but those aren't genres. He wrote romantic comedy, he wrote slapstick, he wrote slasher/gore, he wrote fantasy, he wrote ghost stories, fairy tales, etc.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Reaves on November 14, 2008, 12:24:04 AM
Also remember, to the Greeks, where he got much of his inspiration from, all plays were either Tragedy or Comedy. All of them were variations on that theme.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: The Jade Knight on November 14, 2008, 05:40:32 AM
Have you ever seen "The Complete Works of William Shakespeare (Abridged)"?  Watching it helps to put things into perspective a little more.

Shakespeare wasn't a bad writer, but he's definitely overrated.  Most people today who like his writing are more enamored with Early Modern English than they are with anything unique to his plays (or they simply like him because they've been taught they should).
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Vatdoro on November 22, 2008, 12:37:09 AM
I read a lot of fantasy, but my favorite book of all time is The Count of Monte Cristo. I've read some of Alexandre Dumas' other books, but they were just "okay". Nothing great. I personally thing the Count of Monte Cristo is a masterpiece. I'd recommend it to anyone, regardless of their preference in books.

There you have it. Alexandre Dumas is not my favorite author of all time, but he did write my favorite book.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Reaves on November 22, 2008, 04:19:27 AM
(or they simply like him because they've been taught they should).

guilty. Actually its more that I don't like him, but I've been taught I should.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: The Jade Knight on November 22, 2008, 12:48:20 PM
I read a lot of fantasy, but my favorite book of all time is The Count of Monte Cristo. I've read some of Alexandre Dumas' other books, but they were just "okay". Nothing great. I personally thing the Count of Monte Cristo is a masterpiece. I'd recommend it to anyone, regardless of their preference in books.

There you have it. Alexandre Dumas is not my favorite author of all time, but he did write my favorite book.

I wish I could say Dumas reads better in French, but he's ruddy difficult to understand in French—the man had a massive vocabulary, and wasn't afraid of using archaisms.  I did enjoy Les trois mousquetaires, however.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Bastille on December 05, 2008, 06:23:29 PM
My favorite book is the Alcatraz books by Brandon Sanderson.  :)
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: mtbikemom on December 09, 2008, 08:49:47 PM
Excuse me if I don't find pointless explicit sexual torture as a good read.

...which is why I put away Terry G. and George R.R.M. before too long into those series.  I'm sorry, fans of these authors, this is not good writing and often offensive/derivative.   

I appreciate traditional fantasy done well and cannot recommend Carol Berg highly enough for superbly imaginative stories with unexpected plot twists and succinct writing.  And she wrapped up her latest in two books!   Carol does not shy from action and violence, but it is never unresolved/pointless/ just-for-shock-value like so much in modern fantasy.  Start with her Transformation or Song of the Beast and be ready for a wild ride that ends well.

Also enjoyed discovering Patrick Carman's books this year. 

Other great reads: Jill Paton Walsh's The Green Book (healthy appetizer), Ralph Moody's Little Britches (salad course),  Jane Austen's Mansfield Park (main course), anything by Terry Pratchett, but especially the new Tiffany Aching series (dessert, of course).

Please, everyone, read To Kill a Mockingbird just for fun sometime.  I think this book is ruined by being required in school, but it is worth reading again.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: MrPaperCamel on December 09, 2008, 09:45:00 PM
Excuse me if I don't find pointless explicit sexual torture as a good read.

...which is why I put away Terry G. and George R.R.M. before too long into those series.  I'm sorry, fans of these authors, this is not good writing and often offensive/derivative.   

I actually skipped through most of that stuff in Goodkind. Curious where the story was going, but the sheer detail was unnecessary.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: The Jade Knight on December 09, 2008, 09:49:22 PM
I too abandoned the Sword of Truth series, finding it unpalatable...
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: GreenMonsta on December 09, 2008, 09:57:59 PM
Sword of Truth was a great series. You didn't have to like his ideals to love the characters. His characters were some of my favorites of all time.

I will admit that Zedd was an adaption on Belgarath but he was still sweet. Richard, Kahlan, even Jagang was a great enemy. I will admit that his need to re-explain the confessors powers every time Kahlan used it was a little unnecessary. Especially when he used like two pages to do it. The weapon the Sword of Truth and the position of Seeker was also cool.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: readerMom on December 09, 2008, 10:26:02 PM
The Sword of Truth series was recommended to me when I ran out of Robert Jordan, but it was too graphic.  It made me faintly nauseous and I wasn't even pregnant at the time.  The story was interesting, but it was buried in all the other stuff.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: WriterDan on December 09, 2008, 10:40:55 PM
Only got worse, ReaderMom.  Only he changed from explicit detail of torture to tedious monologuing by Richard about the "nobility of man".  The end was a complete let down.  For the story, for the characters, for everything.  He had a few things going there for a while as far as interesting characters and plot, but killed everything with all the crap he put into them and most especially the pointless ending.  Ugh.  Can't say enough to sway people from reading that mess of books.

Martin on the other hand can freaking write, he just doesn't have a whole lot of anything happen in his books.  I've pretty much bailed on ASoFaI too.

There's so much stuff out there that is so much better than either of these series.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: GreenMonsta on December 09, 2008, 11:02:48 PM
Oh your mean. Richard doesn't spend his time monologuing except in Faith of the Fallen. And that was one of the best books in the series. I will admit that the last three book could have been a lot better and the ending was kinda weak and too predictable but that doesn't mean the books as a whole aren't worth it. The good thing about his books is that you can read most of them and stop at the end, there is a definitive ending to each so you can stop at any time.

If anything I would advise you read Wizards First Rule because it was an amazing book with a complete story line and not too many crazy ideals. Great book all around. Now the Chainfire trilogy is a different story.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: mtbikemom on December 09, 2008, 11:17:15 PM
   I guess, upon reflection, that GRRM is not a "bad writer," but maybe just a sad person who seems to dislike/distrust women (note the way they tend to die horribly, if I remember correctly, before we really get to know them) and has possibly never had a satisfying intimate relationship.   We can only write that which we know.

    These are just the impressions I got before throwing his book-two in the trash so no one else would have to read it.   He's probably a very nice man... but I don't ever remember throwing a book away before.  I did burn all my astrology books once, though, and never regretted it.

 



  
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: readerMom on December 10, 2008, 12:01:58 AM
Can you think of a large, epic series that didn't have serious problems by the middle? Martin, Jordan, etc. all seem to drag or otherwise annoy the people who stick with them.  Should "epic" fantasy writers just stick to trilogies?
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: GreenMonsta on December 10, 2008, 12:07:39 AM
No. I love long drawn out epics. I alwayse want more even when they are done.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: MrPaperCamel on December 10, 2008, 12:19:59 AM
Jim Butcher has not grossly annoyed me yet. But we will see what happens.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: The Jade Knight on December 10, 2008, 12:21:20 AM
I prefer it when writers end their series, personally.

I will say that Wizard's First Rule was a good book.  But the Sword of Truth went downhill from there.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: mtbikemom on December 10, 2008, 12:37:56 AM
Try Carol Berg for a good five-parter that holds its own for the most part.  Son of Avonar is book one and book five of her The Bridges of D'Arnath series is the best of the bunch.  It's easy to start a series, difficult to end it well.  IM (not so humble) O, Ms. Berg gets better as she gets older.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: GreenMonsta on December 10, 2008, 01:30:37 AM
That is why I like the way R.A. Salvatore went. Writing multiple sets of stories involving the same characters. I mean Ice Wind Dale, The Dark Elf Trilogy, And the one that followed were good but not all of them were. So once you finished with a trilogy the story was over as far as the reader was concerned so there is no real need to continue. I mean I eventually stopped after the book that was mainly about Wolfgar finding himself.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Silk on December 10, 2008, 02:01:28 AM
The problem with Salvatore was that he eventually ended up writing the same story over and over...
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: GreenMonsta on December 10, 2008, 02:05:58 AM
Oh I agree. Once his first three trilogies involving Drizzt were done he then decided to repeat. Thats why I stopped reading. But again that is kinda the point I was trying to make. Had he written the books as a continuous set of books I may have been compelled to finish them all, but seeing how they were seperate trilogies I didnt have a problem with stopping after the first few.

Although I did read a couple of the books he wrote about the spin off caracter Caderly and they were alright.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Silk on December 10, 2008, 02:12:41 AM
I enjoyed the Cadderly series. Of course, I was also several years younger when I read them last...

Also, looking at some of the discussion that went before, I'd have to disagree with the assertion that Martin is a bad writer. His series has some problems but as far as I'm concerned they're not unsurmountable, and I don't think that his actual writing is one of them.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: MrPaperCamel on December 10, 2008, 02:29:36 AM
I would agree that Martin is a good writer. I just didn't think the series had enough substance to keep me interested.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Silk on December 10, 2008, 02:37:50 AM
Lucky you. If I felt the same way, I wouldn't have to care about whether or not I'll be thirty by the time a Dance with Dragons comes out. :P
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: MrPaperCamel on December 10, 2008, 02:41:22 AM
Lucky you. If I felt the same way, I wouldn't have to care about whether or not I'll be thirty by the time a Dance with Dragons comes out. :P

=(, sorry.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Silk on December 10, 2008, 02:47:03 AM
Haha. Shame on you!

Nah, it's fine. I'm sure it won't take him another nine years to finish Dance.

By the time he finishes the series, however, I probably will be thirty.

This is why there should be more standalones in fantasy. :P
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: GreenMonsta on December 10, 2008, 02:49:11 AM
Yeah but standalones alwayse leave me wanting more, no matter how good they are.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: MrPaperCamel on December 10, 2008, 02:52:40 AM
War of the Flowers was one of the first to do that to me. Started of so slow and boring, and by the end I was so sad that there wasn't more to get to.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Silk on December 10, 2008, 02:55:02 AM
I don't mind wanting more. If I don't, the book couldn't have been that great to begin with.

Who's the author of that one, Paper?
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: MrPaperCamel on December 10, 2008, 02:58:46 AM
Tad Williams
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Silk on December 10, 2008, 03:05:51 AM
Hum, I'll have to check it out. Only thing I've read by Williams is the -

Uh, darn it. The trilogy that starts with the Dragonbone Chair. I don't even remember the name of the series...
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Loud_G on December 10, 2008, 03:08:03 AM
I wasn't all THAT fond of War of the Flowers. It had some really nice ideas, but it also let me down in several ways.  The big revelation at the end, I had predicted from 1/3 of the way through the book. I guess it was an ok book. Not terrible, but not great.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Silk on December 10, 2008, 03:16:41 AM
Gah! You people and your mixed reviews!

*sigh* I guess the only way to find out is to try it myself and see...

:P
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: MrPaperCamel on December 10, 2008, 04:22:50 AM
I didn't think the reveal was that predictable. There were actually more than one, and the one I think you are thinking of didn't seem that pushed to me. As though he wasn't really expecting us to miss it. Maybe that was me. I will admit the first part of the book drags horribly. But after that it moves very nicely =).

Oh, and it was the Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn trilogy.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Reaves on December 10, 2008, 11:02:23 PM
It's not that Martin is a bad writer. In my opinion he is very good. He is also very willing to kill off "main" characters, which I respect. He has pretty good ideas and good execution.

Its just the repeated, explicit sex that really turns me off. And I don't think he kills off women too much, or because of any strange mental damage in his own life. Arya is still around, as is Sansa and Daenyris. Catelyn is kinda sorta still around.

The one thing I am concerned for him about is the brother-sister relationships.... First of all, the Targaryens married brother and sister, and Daenyris was going to do that with her brother before he was killed. We have Jaime and his sister. Asha greyjoy pretends to be someone else and gets hit on/felt up by her brother, and it's hinted that Loras and Margaery Tyrell have something going on.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: readerMom on December 10, 2008, 11:11:31 PM
I've just gotten into Jim Butcher, but it seems there are two types of series; the Jordan ones, a single story, told over many volumes, or the TV series type, with a main character and many books of their exploits.  I have read quite a few of the latter and they are a known element.  Every time you read one you sort of know what to expect.  The problem I have is with the first.  It is very difficult to tell a story that long without getting lost every once in a while.
And I just read Three Men in a Boat and it is one of the funniest books I've read in a long while.  I hurt my bad back laughing so hard.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Silk on December 10, 2008, 11:44:58 PM
I haven't heard of Jim Butcher, I don't think...

I'm not a huge fan of the explicit sex and whatnot either, though I think that's mostly a personal taste thing... Because I think it's important that we actually do see that happening.

Martin's tendency to kill off main characters is actually one of the problems I have with the series. Or at least, killing them off in droves like Martin tends to. Readers spend a long time with some of those characters, investing in them and empathizing with them, and when a whole load of them croak it feels that the time we've spent with them has been made somehow irrelevant.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Reaves on December 11, 2008, 12:30:01 AM
I'm not a huge fan of the explicit sex and whatnot either, though I think that's mostly a personal taste thing... Because I think it's important that we actually do see that happening.

Martin's tendency to kill off main characters is actually one of the problems I have with the series. Or at least, killing them off in droves like Martin tends to. Readers spend a long time with some of those characters, investing in them and empathizing with them, and when a whole load of them croak it feels that the time we've spent with them has been made somehow irrelevant.

Some of it, I can understand why you'd think its necessary. But some of it can't be described as anything but gratuitous. Theon makes out with basically a nameless, faceless captain's daughter. We will never see her again. She did absolutely nothing for the plot...I guess you could call it reinforcing Theon's character, at a stretch.

And then Tyrion...after the seventh or so time with Shae, I thought it was getting a little ridiculous.

As for the deaths...it reinforces the fact that it is a Dark fantasy. People die in real life. More people die in a Song of Ice and Fire. If only non-viewpoint characters die, it would be unrealistic.

On a related note, did you know that every single prologue point-of-view character has died so far?  :P
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: mtbikemom on December 11, 2008, 12:39:31 AM
I'm not a huge fan of the explicit sex and whatnot either, though I think that's mostly a personal taste thing... Because I think it's important that we actually do see that happening.

   Most sex scenes are so ridiculously glamorized, especially those written by men, or involve something disgusting in order to make them interesting to the modern reader, that I just end up rolling my eyes.  (Oh great, another virgin having a certain impossible experience the first time...)  Some of these need to be written as comedy, some tragedy, almost never heroic perfection.  Better yet, leave us outside the bedroom (and bathroom) doors to use our own imaginations which are far more satisfying than the usual clumsy attempts on the page, especially by writers of fantasy.  

No one seems to realize that married sex is the best sex there is... but who wants to read about that?  Not even me.

Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Silk on December 11, 2008, 12:57:19 AM
The sheer volume of explicit sex makes me agree that you could probably call some of it a little gratuitous, though I don't recall any specific scenes that jumped out at me as "this doesn't need to be here" when reading it. (Of course, it's probably been a couple years since I read any of the books...) And I think sometimes it's necessary to have us right in the room with the characters, and sometimes it's possible to just close the bedroom door, as MT said, and still get the same effect. (Though I dunno, those transitions can be cheesy and poorly done too, and sometimes to me they just feel like a copout...)

I know that it's realistic when people die but fiction isn't real life, and sometimes to maintain "reality" in fiction you can't hold it up to realistic standards. That's counter intuitive, so...   I think once you're not engaged with something anymore, the "reality" of it is lost - you can't suspend your disbelief if you're not engaged with the story to do that. And so many people die in Martin's books that it annoys me to the point of pulling me out of the stry.

Plus, it kind of loses its effect. The build-up to the Red Wedding, for example, was creepy and ominous and great. The Red Wedding itself? The world went to hell in a handbasket, and my reaction turning the page was "meh".
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Loud_G on December 11, 2008, 03:56:11 PM
I only read book one of G.R.R. Martin's series because I found he was too sex crazy. Rape, sex, and breast feeding dragons..... Could have done without any of that. None of it added to the characters something that couldn't have been added another way....
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: mtbikemom on December 11, 2008, 10:54:29 PM
Consensus seems to be: Too bad a talented, imaginative fantasy writer like Martin is also quite a bit "off."  His sort of book what I try to avoid when asking for recommendations for reliable books, any genre, that won't damage my soul in the enjoyment, and why I have begun to read your EUOL's stuff lately.  Just getting to the end of Mistborn 1.  Enjoyable and reliable!

Please let me know if any of you have read Carol Berg yet!   I found one review of Song of the Beast here, but that is not her best.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Bastille on December 30, 2008, 07:55:37 PM
I have to give you best BOOKS so probably... You'll probably notice there all fantasy. I find non-fiction books B-O-A-R-I-N-G.
-Alcatraz #1+#2
-Mistborn
-Twilight Saga
-Inkheart+ Inkspell
-Revenge of the Shadow King

Bastille
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: The Jade Knight on December 30, 2008, 10:00:15 PM
Which non-fiction books have you been reading?  Some of them are indeed, quite boring, but others can be intensely fascinating, enlightening, or amusing.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Shaggy on January 02, 2009, 03:23:46 AM
Has anyone ever heard of Cinda Williams Chima? She's a fairly new author, but I've read three of her  books (one trilogy) and found them to be pretty satisfying for the most part (the ending of the third disagreed with me, but the rest was great). They're The Warrior Heir, The Wizard Heir, and The Dragon Heir or something like that. And cool covers too  ;D.

P.S. The books aren't very well edited, though. Missing punctuation, wrong punctuation…she even got her main character's name mixed up a few times in the last one lol.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: mtbikemom on January 15, 2009, 05:40:42 AM
Which non-fiction books have you been reading?  Some of them are indeed, quite boring, but others can be intensely fascinating, enlightening, or amusing.

Try:
Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong
by James W. Loewen  (This was one of my favorite books of about ten years ago.  Unbiased, he shoots down both right and left appropriately.)

Darwin's Black Box by Behe  (very biased and technical, but correct... best part is about 3/4 of the way through)

1776 by David McCullough  (good July 4th reading)

A Chance to Die by Elizabeth Elliot (about Amy Carmichael... a missionary who wrote lots of good Victorian poetry)



Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Comfortable Madness on January 15, 2009, 03:17:40 PM
Consensus seems to be: Too bad a talented, imaginative fantasy writer like Martin is also quite a bit "off."  His sort of book what I try to avoid when asking for recommendations for reliable books, any genre, that won't damage my soul in the enjoyment, and why I have begun to read your EUOL's stuff lately.  Just getting to the end of Mistborn 1.  Enjoyable and reliable!

Please let me know if any of you have read Carol Berg yet!   I found one review of Song of the Beast here, but that is not her best.

Wow! I haven't gotten around to this thread in awhile and it seems a ton of GRRM bashing has gone on while my back was turned. Does he kill off a lot of characters? Yes, yes he does, to say that that killing is biased towards woman is absolutely outrageous. Had you bothered to read any further you would have noticed that he develops quite a few strong female characters such as Danearys, Brienne, and Arya. Furthermore, to say an author is a bit "off" or a "bad writer" simply because the world which he created is too dark for you is absurd.

Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Loud_G on January 15, 2009, 03:28:49 PM
I don't believe the killing was the "consensus" that was reached. I'm pretty sure it was the pointless, over abundant, over-described sex that REALLY was the point of most of the bashing.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Comfortable Madness on January 15, 2009, 05:43:04 PM
I don't believe the killing was the "consensus" that was reached. I'm pretty sure it was the pointless, over abundant, over-described sex that REALLY was the point of most of the bashing.

I can see that, sort of. The scenes with Tyrion and Shae were a little redundant. However, the scenes were too show that even though Tyrion hungered for her he regretted every second of it. It served to give more insight on why and who Tyrion really is/was. I believe that each and every sex scene served a purpose. The purpose was to give the reader more intimate knowledge on the character in said sex scene. So, without the descriptions, the sex scenes would be as simple as "Jaime and Cersei then had sex......". Now had he done that you could call the sex scenes pointless as they would not have given insight to anything. So, are the sex scenes pointless? No ...not at all.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: readerMom on January 15, 2009, 08:54:38 PM
I've been reading a lot of best-seller-type things lately and I think sex scenes are used as a short-hand for emotional involvement.  It is a lot like comedy.  Sex is funny, but it is the cheap way to get a laugh.  The really talented authors, ones I have respect for, can find non-graphic sex ways to describe characters emotional interactions.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Comfortable Madness on January 15, 2009, 09:13:35 PM
I've been reading a lot of best-seller-type things lately and I think sex scenes are used as a short-hand for emotional involvement.  It is a lot like comedy.  Sex is funny, but it is the cheap way to get a laugh.  The really talented authors, ones I have respect for, can find non-graphic sex ways to describe characters emotional interactions.

I respect your opinion on that but there really isn't a correlation between talented authors and the use of sex scenes. In my opinion using graphic situations to enhance the "feel" a reader has for a character is a useful tool. Emotions are sometimes intense and writers use these graphic situations to allow the reader to come closer to really "feeling" how the character feels. Sometimes when an author leaves out these situations the characters feel very hollow.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: readerMom on January 15, 2009, 09:57:38 PM
I have overstated a bit.  I have read a few sex scenes that added to the story, I feel that the majority of times they are unnecessary. There are a few writers that use them well, the Time-Traveler's Wife for example.  But most of the time they are there just to titillate.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Publius on January 16, 2009, 02:56:09 AM
Best book I've ever read??  That's a tough one because I have so many things that interest me.  So many different reasons for reading what I read... 

Best Fantasy:  Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series
Best Mystery:  Michael Connelly's Black Echo
Best Political Thriller:  Vince Flynn's Transfer of Power
Best Historical Fiction:  Steven Pressfield's Gates of Fire -->Absolutely best battle scenes I've ever read!!
Best History:  Anything by Stephen E. Ambrose  -->If I had to pick one it would be D-Day
Best Economics:  Basic Economics by Thomas Sowell
Best Current Events:  Moment of Truth in Iraq by Michael Yon  --> He has an online magazine that is worth reading too
Best Biography:  Ronald Reagan by Dinesh D'Souza
Best Religion:  The Language of God by Francis S Collins
                             What's So Great About Christianity by Dinesh D'Souza  --> Both books use science to show evidence of God

As far as sex scenes I think there are times and places for them in Literature; however, I think they are overused far too  much.  I guess that when I read I just want a good story, and most times sex scenes are just there to be there. 

Postscript:  If anyone does decide to read any historical fiction by Steven Pressfield you may want to visit this cool little site, so you know how to pronounce names and places...  www.howjsay.com
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Shaggy on January 16, 2009, 05:20:16 PM
I think that the way teenage/young adult culture has evolved has also influenced popular fiction (more specifically, fiction intended for teenage/young adult readers). There is a lot of emphasis on drinking, sex, and drugs nowadays that often finds a way to creep into books.…
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: kevinpii on January 16, 2009, 06:13:43 PM
I think that the way teenage/young adult culture has evolved has also influenced popular fiction (more specifically, fiction intended for teenage/young adult readers). There is a lot of emphasis on drinking, sex, and drugs nowadays that often finds a way to creep into books.…

try ted dekkers lost books series its a good clean read for the teenage/young adult age group. heck I'm 29 and i enjoy them, but they are geared more toward y/a.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: WriterDan on January 16, 2009, 06:36:22 PM
Wow.  So I haven't been back to this thread very much since starting it, and it looks like a sub-thread has wound it's way in here.  Thought I'd put in my two cents.

One of the things I've noticed about Martin is that he really goes for the realism aspect in his stories.  He wants the world and the characters to feel real when you read them.  He wants you to get pulled in and live the lives that they're living.  In so doing, there are things that he feels are pertinent to certain characters that he wants to get across, and for some of those he chooses to have important stuff occur during a sex scene.  And, as I've mentioned, he wants to make it seem real.  So, it's graphic.  But the important part here to notice, I think, is that so very little of those scenes actually focuses on the sex.  There aren't long passages that could have been cut from a Harlequin romance novel, and for that I'm grateful.  There are, even, only very rare pieces of those scenes where the point of the scene is set aside, and the characters turn to their lust/love/whatever.  And usually, when they do, the scene will end.  I'd have a hard time saying that Martin was a "bad" writer because he chooses to write those sex scenes, or even that other writers are better than him just because they can write a story with no sex in it.  Now, if someone were to say that Martin could use a little prod in the backside to put more actual "story" into his books, instead of making them so "real", I might have to agree with them.  But equating authorial ability with inclusion of sex scenes is the blind man's route to take, if you ask me.  Then again, what do I know.  I'm just a nobody.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Comfortable Madness on January 16, 2009, 06:45:42 PM
Wow.  So I haven't been back to this thread very much since starting it, and it looks like a sub-thread has wound it's way in here.  Thought I'd put in my two cents.

One of the things I've noticed about Martin is that he really goes for the realism aspect in his stories.  He wants the world and the characters to feel real when you read them.  He wants you to get pulled in and live the lives that they're living.  In so doing, there are things that he feels are pertinent to certain characters that he wants to get across, and for some of those he chooses to have important stuff occur during a sex scene.  And, as I've mentioned, he wants to make it seem real.  So, it's graphic.  But the important part here to notice, I think, is that so very little of those scenes actually focuses on the sex.  There aren't long passages that could have been cut from a Harlequin romance novel, and for that I'm grateful.  There are, even, only very rare pieces of those scenes where the point of the scene is set aside, and the characters turn to their lust/love/whatever.  And usually, when they do, the scene will end.  I'd have a hard time saying that Martin was a "bad" writer because he chooses to write those sex scenes, or even that other writers are better than him just because they can write a story with no sex in it.  Now, if someone were to say that Martin could use a little prod in the backside to put more actual "story" into his books, instead of making them so "real", I might have to agree with them.  But equating authorial ability with inclusion of sex scenes is the blind man's route to take, if you ask me.  Then again, what do I know.  I'm just a nobody.

You have echoed my opinion/sentiments exactly.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Shaggy on January 16, 2009, 07:50:26 PM
I don't think anybody's really a nobody…I mean, I know what you're saying, but everyone's opinions are valid.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Loud_G on January 16, 2009, 08:12:55 PM
In so doing, there are things that he feels are pertinent to certain characters that he wants to get across, and for some of those he chooses to have important stuff occur during a sex scene.  And, as I've mentioned, he wants to make it seem real.  So, it's graphic.   

Sounds to me like looking for an excuse to include a graphic sex scene without SEEMING to be gratuitous.

From what you said, the important stuff could EASILY have been brought out in a non sexual environment, which means by definition his sex scenes are gratuitous. You have inportant plot info unrelated to sex, and then you have sex which is unimportant to the plot.
Not to say sex can't happen in books. It can and does. However, to use graphic sex merely as a vehicle to convey non-sexual character and plot info smacks of fan service. The only reason you could conceivably NEED to describe a sex scene in detail, is if you NEED to show a part of the character's nature which is only apparent during sex.  However, a part of a person's nature that only shows up at that time is 99.9% superfluous to the plot of the story.

(So, having sex occur in the book, and describing sex in great detail are completely different animals. )

Sure you can provide exquisite plotting and character development during a sex scene. You can also do that writing about someone pooping. And you can do it in a "realistic manner", but it would be in just as bad taste as the other.

Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Comfortable Madness on January 16, 2009, 08:33:36 PM
Quote

Sure you can provide exquisite plotting and character development during a sex scene. You can also do that writing about someone pooping. And you can do it in a "realistic manner", but it would be in just as bad taste as the other.
Quote

That statement is as outrageous as it is erroneous. If you prefer to not read authors that use "gratuitous" or "graphic" sequences that is your opinion and that is fine. But to bash an author just because he/she uses those sequences is absurd.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Shaggy on January 16, 2009, 09:11:41 PM
Hehe I'm going to agree with Loud G 'cause his argument was funnier 8). <chuckle>
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: readerMom on January 16, 2009, 09:48:50 PM
I think one of the questions we might want to resolve is what makes a "good" or even a "great" author.  I don't think I would call a "great" author bad because of sex scenes, though I might not choose to read him/her.  Toni Morrison for example, I've read a couple, she is great, but I'm not going to keep reading her books.  Martin writes epic fantasy that many people love, to the point of making a series out of it.  I can't say whether he is a "great" author or not, because the book of his I tried made me physically ill.  Some don't mind the graphicness, some do.
I think that is a separate issue from whether or not there is a "creep" as Shaggy says in fiction.  There definitely is.  I did my BA Senior thesis on such creep in one author over twenty years.  This creep is what I really object to.  Though some might feel it makes things more realistic, I 'm not reading fantasy for the realism.  I also don't think it is realistic.  The pervasive sexual culture causes a lot of problems, which I am a) not going to list here and b) not even remotely laying at the feet of fiction authors.  It is a symptom of what happens in our society generally.  That creep is everywhere.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Shaggy on January 16, 2009, 11:26:49 PM
As a child currently immersed in the oblivious (for the most part) worlds of other children I can sense the "creep" on full effect, and it is truly disheartening and sad, particularly because I must choose my friends from among these children and often find what they listen to/watch/enjoy doing quite sad.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: readerMom on January 17, 2009, 06:44:24 AM
So, to get back to the original topic, Do you have books where you can't stop thinking about them, even after the book(s) are done?  Robert Jordan did that for me.  I read the first four books in 3 days, (I was unemployed at the time) and couldn't get the people out of my head.  It drove me crazy for a while.  Each time I read a new one of his it happened again, even the later ones that I didn't like so much.  I'm waiting to do the big re-read before book 12 until next fall, when all but one of my kids will be in school and I can be evil and read all day.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Shaggy on January 19, 2009, 09:51:40 PM
Sounds like a plan, readerMom.  :D I found myself having similar feelings with Michael Crichton's The Great Train Robbery. It was truly ingenious.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: mtbikemom on January 21, 2009, 06:11:36 AM
Quote

Sure you can provide exquisite plotting and character development during a sex scene. You can also do that writing about someone pooping. And you can do it in a "realistic manner", but it would be in just as bad taste as the other.
Quote

That statement is as outrageous as it is erroneous. If you prefer to not read authors that use "gratuitous" or "graphic" sequences that is your opinion and that is fine. But to bash an author just because he/she uses those sequences is absurd.

For some of us, I think it comes down to manners.  Do we want to encourage a little more degradation of the culture by buying books that we would be embarrassed to be seen reading?  It's like watching someone in polite company who does not know how to behave and then a few more join in and, pretty soon, everyone is coarse.  It is inevitable, I believe, but lamentable.

The Bible talks about wrong being right and right seeming wrong in the "last days."  Forgive my paraphrase.  Whatever you believe, our culture allows things on prime time television that would have caused a sailor to faint a hundred years ago.  Are we better for it?   

Thanks for your thoughtful words, ReaderMom.  Listen to your mother!
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Loud_G on January 22, 2009, 05:33:03 PM
Quote

Sure you can provide exquisite plotting and character development during a sex scene. You can also do that writing about someone pooping. And you can do it in a "realistic manner", but it would be in just as bad taste as the other.
Quote

That statement is as outrageous as it is erroneous. If you prefer to not read authors that use "gratuitous" or "graphic" sequences that is your opinion and that is fine. But to bash an author just because he/she uses those sequences is absurd.

Why? Is using the bathroom more taboo than sex? IT happens everyday. Why don't we write about it? It has bearing and weight on REAL life. And an author could certainly provide just as much useful exposition in that kind of scene as the other. So, I don't think it was erroneous at all. Maybe some people like reading about people using the bathroom. Or should we not include bathroom scenes because it makes people queasy and because it is unnessessary and in and of itself cannot help a plot move forward? hmm.... Sounds familiar....

Now, I never said writers who did that were bad writers, but it is certainly bad writing. 97.534% of Game of Thrones was quite well written. So Martin obviously knows HOW to write. (and well too!) He just decided to throw in unnecessary stuff and tack on mild exposition so that it wouldn't be obvious pandering/gratuitousness. All the plot that was brought forth in those scenes could have EASILY been done without anatomy lessons and overt sensational wish fulfillment. Just as authors write wonderful stories with out a scene of the protagonist sitting on the toilet. They don't lose the gritty feeling by avoiding excrement, just as you won't lose grit by avoiding overly described, crude sex scenes.

--------------

Back on topic though, some of the best books I've read in that respect are the Wheel of Time, in which sex happens, but we don't have to wade through descriptions, anatomy lessons, and wish fullfillment.

I also think that Mistborn is among the best fantasy I've ever read (Thanks Brandon)

I think it would be hard to pinpoint the BEST single book I've ever read. WoT and Mistborn are certainly up there, but I've been affected by SO many good books that it is hard to decide.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Comfortable Madness on January 22, 2009, 06:18:57 PM

Why? Is using the bathroom more taboo than sex? IT happens everyday. Why don't we write about it? It has bearing and weight on REAL life. And an author could certainly provide just as much useful exposition in that kind of scene as the other. So, I don't think it was erroneous at all. Maybe some people like reading about people using the bathroom. Or should we not include bathroom scenes because it makes people queasy and because it is unnessessary and in and of itself cannot help a plot move forward? hmm.... Sounds familiar....



That isn't what I was saying at all. If a writer wanted to include bathroom scenes by all means have at it. Not taboo at all in my opinion. What I was saying is that it's completely erroneous to say a bathroom scene would provide the same useful character insight as a sex scene.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: The Jade Knight on January 23, 2009, 11:30:18 PM
It certainly could provide an equivalent degree of insight.  Neither, of course, are remotely necessary unless one is writing a book about defecating or having sex, wot.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Necroben on January 24, 2009, 02:34:55 AM
I personally have written both types of scenes in my book.  My goal is to portray, in a realistic manner, the thinking and character of that person.  Getting inside this person's head, the deep dark shadows we all tend to avoid, and showing how feelings do not have to become actions.  Granted, I don't get gratuitous, but the scene is there and it has a purpose. 

Does this make me a bad or unimaginative writer?  I don't think so.  I have a target audience and so have to write/communicate in a way that they might get the point.  Religious convictions aside, those with them are not my target audience.  Odds are, they won't be offended by my writing.  I'm not trying to go out of my way to offend anyone, on the other hand I'm not going out of my way to avoid it either.

*I can't point to one book and say it's my favorite.  Many that I've read are part of a series, and so I'd go with the WOT.  Final answer.*
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Shaggy on January 24, 2009, 10:09:00 PM
I just want to point out a difference between a sex scene and a bathroom scene. A bathroom scene is rarely central to the story–most of the time, they are omitted from the story altogether. However, a sex scene can be very important in certain stories. I myself have read several where a sex scene is told where one character gets intimate with the other, pretending to do it for enjoyment/pleasure, but is really trying to gain information from the other character. Unless you have talking toilets in your stories, that would probably not happen in a bathroom scene.…  :D
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Loud_G on January 24, 2009, 10:52:57 PM
Unless you have talking toilets in your stories, that would probably not happen in a bathroom scene.…  :D

Hmm....Talking Toilets....I may have to add that into one of my books.... it strikes me as very Hitchhiker's Guide the Galaxy :D

I think the problem here is not the existence of sex in a story line (though a lot of arguments tend to boil down to "yes sex" or "no sex"). The real issue is the level of description and purpose of the text. Having sex occur in your story does not make you a bad writer. It is the level of detail that is the problem with most of these scenes. However, whenever I argue about the graphic nature or level of detail of sex scenes in fiction (or even movies), people get all defensive and start saying ridiculous things like "sex is a normal part of life" or "it is there for characterization".  That is fine. That is why we have the two (or more) people together, that however, does not license the author to do whatever he/she pleases in that scene.

Most of the sex scenes  I've seen have been very superfluous to the plot. Like the author was pounding his brain for an excuse (no matter how small) to put a lurid anatomy lesson into the text, rather than writing a scene that was efficient, to the point, and an effect vessel for the movement of plot.

I have never read one where I said to myself afterward "Wow, that REALLY sheds a lot of new light on the character in a completely different way than I would have ever understood otherwise." Never.

Even Martin's scenes weren't so much realistic or gritty as they were lurid and burdensome to the plot. They slowed the plot to a crawl to show the minute details and movements of a scene where only a hair's breadth of character was revealed. Those scenes last MUCH longer than any of the other 'defining character moments' where people have to make tough decisions that will affect the course of history. Which is why I am s skeptical of the purpose of such scenes when I come across them in books.

It is not the prude in me that is speaking as much as the critical reader. I was taught to think about what I read and make judgments. If it is there for titillation, fun, etc. it is in the wrong genre. If it is there to convey plot and character, it will be efficient in its description and short. Most of what I've seen are the first sort. If there is plot/character it is thrown in as an afterthought. The scenes are stretched out to epic proportions and the level of anatomic detail tend to range from the ridiculous to the truly disgusting.

People may disagree. However, I don't think the disagreements are based on story mechanics.

Brevity is the soul of wit, and indeed, it is ideal for the unfolding of story elements as well.

If a scene runs too long for its purpose, cut it.
If something doesn't move the plot along, cut it.

Writing isn't about living every moment and experience of life verbatim. It is distilling it down to something potent and transcendent.

So, Martin, by trying to be so realistic, has forfeited reality and lost the purpose of the scene.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: readerMom on January 25, 2009, 02:13:26 AM
Thank you Loud_G for elucidating something I wouldn't have known how to express because I have never tried fiction writing.  Sex scenes as information gathering or characterization do not need the detail that is really what I find irritating and occasionally offensive.
Sex is important, we wouldn't be here without it, but it is too important to use for an easy scene and thrills.  And Martin is by no means the worst.  Neal Stephenson writes great books and pornography, unfortunately he combines them to make huge books that I have gotten fed up with. 
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Shaggy on January 25, 2009, 05:22:20 PM
I agree with all that was said above. However, everyone does have to make a living. Writers will be able to write no longer if their books don't sell. And, however disgusting it is to admit it, sex in books is one way to appeal to a (younger) audience (teens, mostly). But then again, I doubt the books you are discussing are for most teenagers.…
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: mtbikemom on February 04, 2009, 07:36:13 PM
Thanks also from me, Loud_G, for your thoughtful post.  I agree with every point you make and am forced to remember my two very-different reactions to the famous "first time" scene for Rand in WoT. 

I was disappointed by that sex scene in the first reading, hoping to be able to share these books with my then 15-year-old son at the time.  On subsequent readings, I was surprised at how appropriate that wild scene was and how unusually well-written.  The characters' reactions afterward were consistent, I thought--unusual in most modern fiction.  RJ struck a good balance for my taste most of the time between voyeurism and telling too little. 

On the other hand, there is such a thing as not enough sex in a novel!  I have just encountered that in Brandon's Well of Ascension, I'm sorry to say.  I think there should have been a few references to Elend's desires for Vin, especially in the early chapters.  I mean, c'mon!  Men and women have very different reactions to affectionate embraces and it seemed especially out-of-character for Elend to react (not react, really) the way Mr. Sanderson wrote him.  I again have to compare to RJ's treatment of Rand's thoughts about women as he came of age.  He was constantly berating himself for thoughts he called "lecherous" and trying his best not to show it.  That is human and understandable and, I think, not to be avoided. 

Brandon's treatment of the eventual relationship between his main characters was more tasteful than Mr. Jordan's and very easy for me to read.  Obviously.  His values are akin to mine and it's so nice to read about a wholesome beginning to a marriage.  Most unusual in modern fantasy!
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Shaggy on February 05, 2009, 11:09:52 PM
Not to get down on BS's writing or anything, but sometimes Elend and Vin in the first book and the first half of the second book reminded me of two fifth or sixth graders on their first date…like, really awkward and inexperienced.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: little wilson on February 06, 2009, 04:31:00 AM
Wow. It's been a while since I last looked at this thread....I would say something about the sex stuff, but....it looks like that's already been covered by Loud's post (which I agree with completely)....plus, I've never read Martin.

Best books I've ever read....Hmm.

The basic list:
Mistborn
The Gemma Doyle Trilogy by Libba Bray
Uglies Trilogy by Scott Westerfeld (sci-fi)
The Count of Monte Cristo
.....Harry Potter

Oh, and as for a book that I couldn't stop thinking about even after I finished. That happens a lot, but I think the most recent one that affected my thoughts the most was Hero of Ages. I literally couldn't stop thinking about that book...to the point where I couldn't really listen to music (which says a lot since I absolutely LOVE music....). I actually don't think a book has ever affected me as much as that one did.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: maxonennis on February 06, 2009, 05:46:41 AM
My top five:

1.   The Old Man and the Sea

2.   To the God Unknown

3.   Moby Dick

4.   For Whom the Bells Toll

5.   The Shadow of the Torturer

These are the authors (ErnestHemingway, John Steinbeck, Herman Melville, and Gene Wolfe) that I aspire to be like, and have modled my writing style after.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Shaggy on February 07, 2009, 04:16:19 AM
I note the lack of Robert Jordan titles with interest.  8) (just kidding)
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: maxonennis on February 07, 2009, 04:24:47 AM
I note the lack of Robert Jordan titles with interest.  8) (just kidding)

I would rate tEotW at somewhere between 6 to 10, the only reason I wouldn't rate it higher is because of all the copycat novels. They've tarnished tWoT greatly for me--I still love it, but I go out of my way to avoid reading epic fantasy that follows the usual hero's journey (farm boy becomes king, magic sword, evil overlord etc.).
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Shaggy on February 07, 2009, 04:33:10 AM
Quote
farm boy becomes king, magic sword, evil overlord etc.
If I had only read these words, and not read anything else in the post, nor have any idea what you are talking about, I would have guessed you were talking about the fantasy/science-fiction genre.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: echigo109 on February 07, 2009, 05:19:54 AM
DEFINITLY MISTBORN BY BRANDON SANDERSON
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: maxonennis on February 07, 2009, 06:51:54 PM
Quote
farm boy becomes king, magic sword, evil overlord etc.
If I had only read these words, and not read anything else in the post, nor have any idea what you are talking about, I would have guessed you were talking about the fantasy/science-fiction genre.

Exactly, overused.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Shaggy on February 07, 2009, 07:59:12 PM
Quote
Quote from: Shaggy on Yesterday at 10:33:10 PM
Quote
farm boy becomes king, magic sword, evil overlord etc.
If I had only read these words, and not read anything else in the post, nor have any idea what you are talking about, I would have guessed you were talking about the fantasy/science-fiction genre.

Exactly, overused.
If something is overused, you must figure there is a reason it is used so  much.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: maxonennis on February 08, 2009, 12:25:02 AM
Quote
If something is overused, you must figure there is a reason it is used so  much.

 ::)

Your confusing a archetype and a clique. The farm boy turned king, clique. The magic sword, clique. The evil overlord, clique.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: SarahG on February 09, 2009, 07:16:15 PM
You mean cliché, right?
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Shaggy on February 09, 2009, 10:42:01 PM
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's not how you spell it.

I never mentioned cliches or archetypes…did I??
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: little wilson on February 10, 2009, 12:47:23 AM
Not directly, but indirectly you did. Farm-boy-turned-king, magic swords, and evil overlords are clichés. What you said about something being over-used, yet that over-usage means that it's good is more archetypal. Archetypes=good. Clichés=bad. Generally....
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Shaggy on February 10, 2009, 03:43:13 AM
Well, I wasn't saying they were good…well, I guess I kind of was. What I was TRYING to say was that cliches, before they became overused/cliches, must've had some value to them.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Loud_G on February 10, 2009, 04:23:34 PM
Quote
farm boy becomes king, magic sword, evil overlord etc.

These are archtypes. Archtypes can be cliches in stories if they are used improperly but they still derive from archtypes.

The Peasant King, the Magic Sword, etc. These are not bad at all. Not cliche. They form the basis for a great deal of collective mythology.

They only become cliche if the person using them does not do so in a new/original way, or just copies them straight from the mythical archtypes without any twist.

The Peasant King can be seen in the American dream. Rags to riches. This is a powerful motif. It has meaning in the social subconscious.

The cliches are the ones where you can obviously draw a one to one comparison. 'X is definitely King Arthur just ported directly into this story.' However if the Peasant King also has self immolation (ie. Messianic properties) along with a host of other new/differentcharacteristics, then it doesn't resemble the exact archtype anymore. You can see influences of the archtype, but it has escaped being cliche because it encompasses MORE than just the 'Peasant King'.

Jordan used a lot of archtypes, but never one per person. He created real characters who filled several roles, had complex personalities and motivations and whose story was more than just Good vs. Bad.

Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: maxonennis on February 10, 2009, 05:05:33 PM
Quote
farm boy becomes king, magic sword, evil overlord etc.

These are archtypes. Archtypes can be cliches in stories if they are used improperly but they still derive from archtypes.

The Peasant King, the Magic Sword, etc. These are not bad at all. Not cliche. They form the basis for a great deal of collective mythology.

They only become cliche if the person using them does not do so in a new/original way, or just copies them straight from the mythical archtypes without any twist.

The Peasant King can be seen in the American dream. Rags to riches. This is a powerful motif. It has meaning in the social subconscious.

The cliches are the ones where you can obviously draw a one to one comparison. 'X is definitely King Arthur just ported directly into this story.' However if the Peasant King also has self immolation (ie. Messianic properties) along with a host of other new/differentcharacteristics, then it doesn't resemble the exact archtype anymore. You can see influences of the archtype, but it has escaped being cliche because it encompasses MORE than just the 'Peasant King'.

Jordan used a lot of archtypes, but never one per person. He created real characters who filled several roles, had complex personalities and motivations and whose story was more than just Good vs. Bad.



Definition of Archetype:

“A universally recognizable element . . . that recurs across all literature and life (Latrobe 13).  Psychologist Carl Jung called these elements a kind of “collective unconscious” of the human race, prototypes rather than something gained from experience.  The word is derived from the Greek: arche, original, and typos, form or model; thus, original model (Latrobe 13). 

An archetype is the first real example or prototype of something (as the Model T is the prototype of the modern automobile).  In this sense an archetype can be considered the ideal model, the supreme type or the perfect image of something (Brunel 111-112, 114).

A key to understanding folk literature is to understand archetypes.  “An archetype is to the psyche what an instinct is to the body. . . . . Archetypes are the psychic instincts of the human species.” (Edinger as quoted in Knapp 10).  Archetypes are universal in human beings. Archetypes result in a deep emotional response for readers.

 “Archetypes are repeated patterns that recur in the literature of every age” (Sloan 48).

Examples of Archetypes

Characters:

Hero (think of the classic hero journey & qualities of hero)
·   “The main character leaves his or her community to go on an adventure, performing deeds that bring honor to the community” (Herz and Gallo 121).

Mother figure
·   Fairy Godmother (surrogate mother)—comforts and directs child, especially when he or she is confused and needs guidance.  Represents powers that can be called on for help when it is needed.  Helps young person to solve own problems (Knapp 71).
·   Earth Mother
·   Stepmother

The great teacher/mentor
·   Wise old men/women—protects or helps main character when he or she faces challenges.

The innocent
·   Child/Youth
·   Inexperienced adult
Underdog

Double
·   Split personality—the other side of an individual

Helping animals

The Sacrificial Redeemer
·   “The protagonist is willing to die for his or her beliefs; the main character maintains a strong sense of morality” (Herz and Gallo 123).

Scapegoat/Sacrificial Victim

Enchantress/Temptress

The Giant/Monster/Ogre

Villain
·   Wolf

Trickster

Evil figure
·   The Devil
·   Serpent

Settings

Garden
·   Cultivated and carefully planned.  Restricted to certain vegetation.

Forest
·   Habitat of the Great Mother (Mother Nature), the lunar force.  Fertility.  The vegetation and animals flourish in this “green world” because of the sustaining power of the Great Mother.  Symbolically the primitive levels of the feminine psyche, protective and sheltering.  Those who enter often lose their direction or rational outlook and thus tap into their collective unconscious.  This unregulated space is opposite of the cultivated gardens, which are carefully planned and are restricted to certain vegetation.

Tree
·   Represents life and knowledge

Caves and tunnels
·   Deep down where character delves into self
·   Place that character goes when “invisible” or inactive
·   At the extreme may signify death

Mountains and peaks
·   Highest peak is place to “see” far
·   Place to gain great insight
   
The River
·   Crossing river may symbolize new territory
·   Rivers can be boundaries or borders & on the other side is something new or different
·   May represent human life or time passing as we follow the river from its source to its mouth

The Sea
·   Vast, alien, dangerous, chaos
·   Waves may symbolize measures of time and represent eternity or infinity

Fountain
·   Stands for purification; the sprinkling of water (baptism) washes away sin.  Water of fountain gives new life (Knapp 32).

Islands
·   Microcosms or small worlds unto themselves
·   Represent isolation or get-a-ways

Actions/Events:

Journey--“The protagonist takes a journey, usually physical but sometimes emotional, during which he or she learns something about himself or herself or finds meaning in his or her life as well as acceptance in a community” (Herz and Gallo 112).
·   Linear
·   Circular
·   Quests
·   Quest for material wealth
·   Quest for security, as a secure place to live
·   Quest for kin
·   Quest for global good, such as when a kingdom is threatened
·   Quest for self, for self-identity or self-assurance

Rites of initiation

Parental Conflict and Relationships
·   “The protagonist deals with parental conflict by rejecting or bonding with parents” (Herz and Gallo 117).

Coming of age

Sleep
·   Crucial for physical and/or psychological healing.  During dreams, person can grow.  Person can fantasize freely in sleep.  A transitional and beneficial period.  In dream sphere can descend to the sphere of the Great Mother.  Person awakens with a greater understanding of human nature (Knapp 88).

Sacrificial rites

The Test or Trial
·   “In the transition from one stage of life to another, the main character experiences a rite of passage through growth and change; he or she experiences a transformation” (Herz and Gallo 115).

Birth/Death and Rebirth
·   “Through pain and suffering the character overcomes feelings of despair, and through a process of self-realization is reborn” (Herz and Gallo 110).

The Fall: Expulsion from Eden
·   “The main character is expelled because of an unacceptable action on his or her part” (Herz and Gallo 111).

Annihilation/Absurdity/Total Oblivion
·   “In order to exist in an intolerable world, the main character accepts that life is absurd, ridiculous, and ironic” (Herz and Gallo 116).

Works Cited

Brunel, Pierre.  Companion to Literary Myths, Heroes and Archetypes.  New York: Routledge, 1992.

Franz, Marie-Louise von.  Archetypal Patterns in Fairy Tales.  Toronto: Inner City, 1997.

Herz, Sarah K., and Donald R. Gallo. From Hinton to Hamlet: Building Bridges Between Young Adult Literature and the Classics. 2nd ed. Westport, CT: Greenwood, 2005.

Holman, C. Hugh, and William Harmon.  A Handbook to Literature.  6th ed.  New York: Macmillan, 1992.

Johnson, Terry D., and Daphne R. Louis.  Bringing It All Together.  Portsmouth, NH: Heinemann, 1990.

Knapp, Bettina L.  French Fairy Tales: A Jungian Approach. Albany: State U. of New York: 2003.

Latrobe, Kathy H., Carolyn S. Brodie, and Maureen White.  The Children’s Literature Dictionary.  New York: Neal-Schuman, 2002.

Sloan, Glenna Davis.  The Child as Critic.  3rd ed.  New York: Teachers College, 1991.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Loud_G on February 10, 2009, 05:20:51 PM
Maxonennis: I'm sorry, but you just gave perfect rebuttal to your earlier argument :)

Thanks for backing me up :)
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: readerMom on February 10, 2009, 09:53:21 PM
I'm having a AP English flashback  ;)
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Shaggy on February 10, 2009, 10:45:12 PM
Best books ever; they come highly recommended:

Everyone Poops

The Gas We Pas

Why We Fart
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: The Jade Knight on February 13, 2009, 08:08:53 AM
Now take what you just wrote, Maxonennis, and put it down at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archetype#Archetypes_in_literature .  If you go through the effort, you might as well help out the world a bit, eh?
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: silver_kage on March 20, 2009, 07:11:04 PM
Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan, it is the best series that I have ever read!
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Shaggy on March 20, 2009, 07:19:09 PM
OK it would be virtually impossible for me to decide which book is my favorite…so I'll just say that the Bartimaeus Trilogy (The Amulet of Samarkand, The Golem's Eye, and Ptolemy's Gate) [or something like that] was really, really good–it incorporated a lot of humour and feelings of joviality, while not straying from the pot line or interfering with the story's progress. It was good. And funny. Shaggy recommends.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: RavenstarRHJF on March 21, 2009, 04:26:16 PM
Ok, so everyone seems to agree on The Wheel of Time and Mistborn.  Sadly, I can't agree with either because I've only read the first two books of the former and haven't picked up the latter yet.  As for BEST books, i.e. the ones I keep coming back to...  I noticed one lone reference to The Deed of Paksennarion by Elizabeth Moon which I have to second enthusiastically!  Recently I've also really enjoyed her Kylara Vatta series (sci fi).

I also have to mention Madeliene L'Engle for her series beginning with A Wrinkle in Time, and Georgette Heyer who writes Historical Romance novels devoid of text-based porn.  Her characters really shine and while the stories are somewhat predictable in that they follow the accepted plot line- guy meets girl, they appear to detest one another yet end up falling in love- not all of them do, and they are a very enjoyable read with a lot of laughing involved.  I would recommend starting with These Old Shades.  It's as much mystery and adventure as it is romance, with a delightful anti-hero.

As for more modern fiction: Jasper Fforde with his Thursday Next series.  Anyone who loves to read will like these books, I promise!  The Literary Detectives FTW!
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Madjius on March 22, 2009, 07:21:16 PM
The best book I read, is often the latest book.
I started with YJK:Academy - translated to swedish.
Then Harry potter, in english.

And ever since, I'll never pick up a swedish piece of litterature, ever again.

The Best book I've read; Mistborn.

It has given me such self control and awareness that any more said would only be an understatement.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: SarahG on March 23, 2009, 09:26:04 PM
I also have to mention ... Georgette Heyer who writes Historical Romance novels devoid of text-based porn.

I've loved Heyer's The Grand Sophy since I happened upon an old used copy once, but I haven't met anyone else who had heard of her.  I wholeheartedly second your recommendation!

That, combined with your liking of Madeleine L'Engle (another of my favorites), makes me want to try Jasper Fforde.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: ryos on March 23, 2009, 11:32:52 PM
Funny, I didn't really enjoy A Wrinkle in Time. However, I was really young when I read it (third grade if memory serves), so I may have just not gotten it.

It's hard to pick a favorite book, but right now I'd have to say Hart's Hope by Orson Scott Card is one of my favorites. I found it to be unique, vivid, compelling, and memorable. I want to read it again, and I don't read very many books twice (there are too many that I've never read once!).
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Shaggy on March 24, 2009, 01:17:39 AM
I didn't like it, either. In fact the only person I've met who HAS liked it is a girl who I have a sneaking suspicion that the only reason she said she likes it is 'cause she has the same name as the main character.…
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: SarahG on March 24, 2009, 06:15:42 PM
I think what I loved about L'Engle, especially when I was younger, was that I related to her main characters.  Usually they are extraordinarily smart and talented girls, but somewhat less adept at connecting to their peers and fitting into the culture around them.  They are often stubborn, independent, and impatient with others' weaknesses.  I like the ways they grow, the things they learn, and the progress they make toward maturity - getting their social and emotional skills to catch up to their intellectual ones.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: ErikHolmes on March 24, 2009, 09:55:59 PM
Hope its not too late to jump into this thread but here are some of my favorites:

#1 (by a large margin) The Chronicles of Amber by Roger Zelazny.
-I probably re-read this series every year, I never get tired of it (and I've played and run more Amber RPG's then any other, I just love the setting).

#2. Everyone has already mentioned Mistborn and Elantris. Both are great.

#3. The Vlad Taltos books. The first one is Jhereg and its great. Each one is a standalone book. They are like mobster stories set in a high powered fantasy world. Vlad is a minor mob boss and assassin.

#4. The Vampire Earth books. This is the best series that no one has heard of. IMO the protagonist is the truest hero I've ever read about. A Vampire-type race from another world has enslaved the planet and turned the population into cattle. The protagonist is part of one of the small groups of resistance.

#5. Valliant. I just finished this one and was really impressed. A high school girl runs away from home when she catches her boyfriend cheating on her with her mom. She ends up staying with some other kids on the street in the city. Her and another girl run into a Troll and she is forced to serve the troll for a month to free her friend.



Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: readerMom on March 25, 2009, 01:55:26 AM
Quote
It's hard to pick a favorite book, but right now I'd have to say Hart's Hope by Orson Scott Card is one of my favorites. I found it to be unique, vivid, compelling, and memorable. I want to read it again, and I don't read very many books twice (there are too many that I've never read once!).

That's funny, I don't like Card's fantasy nearly as much as his sci-fi.  But my sister loves his fantasy much better.  We've already promised to not recommend books to each other.
I can never say what my favorite book is because I have recent ones that were incredible, then the old comfort books I return to repeatedly.  My current favorites include Night Watch by Terry Pratchett and The Doomsday Book and To Say Nothing of the Dog by Connie Willis.  And Three Men in a Boat, which I finally read after my brother-in-law loaned me his copy.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Necroben on March 25, 2009, 04:49:53 AM
#4. The Vampire Earth books. This is the best series that no one has heard of. IMO the protagonist is the truest hero I've ever read about. A Vampire-type race from another world has enslaved the planet and turned the population into cattle. The protagonist is part of one of the small groups of resistance.

Who wrote them?  Sounds a lot like Brian Lumley's Source World stuff.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: RavenstarRHJF on March 25, 2009, 01:51:16 PM
I like L'Engle because she combines a spiritual outlook with science in so many of her books.  It's not quite New Age, but it's also not run of the mill "Christian" and that's something I really like about her work.  I do remember trying to read "The Young Unicorns" and not even finishing it for lack of interest, though.  To each his own, I guess!
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Bookstore Guy on March 25, 2009, 03:41:19 PM
#4. The Vampire Earth books. This is the best series that no one has heard of. IMO the protagonist is the truest hero I've ever read about. A Vampire-type race from another world has enslaved the planet and turned the population into cattle. The protagonist is part of one of the small groups of resistance.

Who wrote them?  Sounds a lot like Brian Lumley's Source World stuff.

E E Knight.
It isn't like Lumley at all. The Vampire earth is post-apocalyptic fantasy that has a very Revolutionary War feel to it. It's good, but I'm concerned that it has been going on for too long. And the cover art sucks. The first book is Way of the Wolf. It suffers from traditional "let me educate you on the world" syndrome. The ending is way cool though, and book 2 was really fun.

Lumley = Awesome.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: mtbikemom on March 26, 2009, 06:13:32 AM
Goes on too long and the cover art sucks... where have I heard that before??? 
Definitely not Mistborn.  Brandon has been blessed with succinct writing and really nice
cover art.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Bookstore Guy on March 26, 2009, 03:57:54 PM
Goes on too long and the cover art sucks... where have I heard that before??? 

heh.

/high-five
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Patriotic Kaz on March 28, 2009, 09:45:22 PM
you mean there is a "best"??? anyways my favorite series have to be WoT, Mistborn, and Amber (Rodger Zelazany) and my favorite stand alone books are Stranger in a Strange Land, To Kill a Mockingbird, and This Immortal (Zelazany again and a Hugo winner) those are what come to mind anyways... ;D
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: thall on April 21, 2009, 03:34:31 PM
The Name of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss.

Is his first published book (to be part of a trilogy), expecting the next book out either late this year or early 2010.

DAW president Elizabeth Wollheim called it "the most brilliant first fantasy novel I have read in over 30 years as an editor."
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Shaggy on April 22, 2009, 01:08:31 AM
I've started it. It is great. (So far.  :P )
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Renoard on April 22, 2009, 03:21:12 AM
I can't imagine having a favorite.  Every novelist has such different thingsto say, how do you decide on one favorite?
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Shaggy on April 22, 2009, 03:22:12 AM
I've just been putting the books I really really like on this thread.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: The Jade Knight on April 22, 2009, 06:22:25 AM
Le petit prince is my favorite because it's charming, heavily philosophical (in the most delightful ways), highly accessible (technically a children's book), has moments of absolute beauty, practical, still has high intellectual and aesthetic value over multiple reads (I rarely reread books), and sad.  All of these in one little book (I can't vouch for it being the same in English—I haven't read it in English since I was a small child, and I didn't nearly like it so much then).  I've never read another book like it.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: Renoard on April 22, 2009, 08:44:42 AM
One of the best books I've read is The Dispossessed by l'Engle.
Title: Re: Best book you've ever read...
Post by: SarahG on April 22, 2009, 09:08:56 PM
Le petit prince is my favorite because it's charming, heavily philosophical (in the most delightful ways), highly accessible (technically a children's book), has moments of absolute beauty, practical, still has high intellectual and aesthetic value over multiple reads (I rarely reread books), and sad.  All of these in one little book (I can't vouch for it being the same in English—I haven't read it in English since I was a small child, and I didn't nearly like it so much then).  I've never read another book like it.

I agree completely.  "Dessine-moi un mouton, s'il te plait."  "Je suis responsable de ma rose."  I love that book.