Timewaster's Guide Archive

Alternate Realities => What's this? => Topic started by: Lieutenant Kije on October 04, 2004, 02:39:54 PM

Title: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 04, 2004, 02:39:54 PM
I have been wanting to play a game of Diplomacy for some time now, and I'm seeing if there's sufficient interest to run one online.

I know this isn't a forum-based RPG, but the format of online Diplomacy would be fairly similar, so I thought I 'd post it here.

I think running the game online would work very well considering the game's format.  Interplayer discussion could take place through email, chat, or TWG private messages.  The drawn-out format of online forum games works fine here, as Diplomacy takes a long time to play.  I have tentatively created a Yahoo group dedicated to the game, where the (constantly changing) game board could be posted aong with player resources, announcements, deadlines, etc.

We could run it by giving a week for diplomacy between turns, after which orders would be submitted to me (the moderator) and results posted within a day or two.  And so forth until someone wins.  The time required to play wouldn't be all that great, and would mostly depend on how much you wanted to participate diplomatically.

For those of you unfamiliar with the game who might be interested, there's a TWG review for it here: http://www.timewastersguide.com/view.php?id=648

To sum it up briefly, it's a conquer the world style boardgame with a heavy emphasis on player interaction.  Very fun.

We'd need 5 players at least, although 7 is ideal.  No more than 7, though.  If enough are interested I'd be willing just to moderate.  Otherwise I'd play as well as moderate.  (With the transparency I'd build into it, there wouldn't be a conflict of interest.)

So...anyone interested?  
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on October 04, 2004, 02:51:37 PM
I've done this by email before, and gotten righteously trampled. I'll play if I don't have to be Turkey. Otherwise I surrender to the country furthest away and bow out. :D

oh, and i like the sig. That was a favorite song for church dances.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Master Xaio on October 04, 2004, 11:28:14 PM
I'd definitely be interested.  I've never played before, but definitely interested.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 05, 2004, 11:22:59 AM
We need at least two more...

By way of promotion:
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Entsuropi on October 05, 2004, 11:26:25 AM
If enough people play, and i can backstab Mr Ehlers, then count me in.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on October 05, 2004, 11:29:26 AM
You can't backstab someone who doesn't trust you in the first place, you scum-sucking commie.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Entsuropi on October 05, 2004, 11:34:41 AM
You are merely falling into my ingenius plan already, you fascist.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on October 05, 2004, 11:40:04 AM
see, for a ploy like that to work, you have to be smart enough to pull it off.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Entsuropi on October 05, 2004, 08:09:50 PM
Or smart enough to hide my true genius.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: 42 on October 05, 2004, 08:15:33 PM
SE, you have no idea about just how many intricate conspiracies there are out there to destroy you. Your tyranny will come to an end!
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: GorgonlaVacaTremendo on October 05, 2004, 09:37:13 PM
I'd be interested, but someone might have to baby me through for a while, I've never played.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on October 05, 2004, 09:47:44 PM
oh, I have a pretty solid idea of how many there are, 42. I just have a better idea of how many of them are a) intelligent or b) possessed of a remote chance of success.

Bring it, nancy boys.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on October 06, 2004, 09:23:34 AM
uhm.. the nations are European powers, ca. 19th century.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 06, 2004, 11:32:24 AM
So far the following have expressed interest:

SaintEhlers
OutKast
Entropy
Gorgon
Jam

If we count myself that's six.  For anyone new to the game, in my opinion it's newcomer-friendly.  Ill get the Yahoo site together over the next day or so, and with any luck another one or two people will join in.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 07, 2004, 03:37:38 PM
Sorry - I didn;t get to it last night after work.  But I will today, and then we'll see about getting everyone on board.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Archon on October 07, 2004, 04:47:51 PM
Hey Kije, if it isnt too late, I would be willing to try that, assuming it isnt too late. I am in the same boat as Gorgon though, as far as experience.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on October 07, 2004, 05:31:43 PM
that's ok, the less experience you all have, the easier it will be to crush you.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Archon on October 07, 2004, 06:13:12 PM
Hey! I am the arrogant one! Me! Look at the job title!
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 08, 2004, 11:29:41 AM
Not too late at all.  More about the game in a bit...
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 08, 2004, 01:44:05 PM
Okay - the site is functional.  What I'm going to need is an email address from all of you.  I've set the membership on the group site to restricted, so only members of the game or others we would care to invite can join.  So I need to send out an invitation to all of you, with an email that you'll use for this game.

The reason, fyi, that I'm using a Yahoo Group site is because I'm not Mr. Computer-Saavy and the groups that yahoo provides (for free) are pretty easy to set up and include features such as shared files/pictures and a message board that are useful.  That, and I don't have a website of my own to put it on.  So that's why, if any of you are adverse to Yahoo and were wondering.

So...either send me an email with your email address, or post it here as:
           youremailaddress at whatever dot com

If you want to send it to me via email, my email address is listed on my profile.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Entsuropi on October 08, 2004, 01:57:48 PM
charlie_m_82 at
hotmail . com
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on October 08, 2004, 02:05:20 PM
se at timewastersguide dot com
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 08, 2004, 02:13:03 PM
Thanks Ent.  Speedy.  

A few words about the site:
If you're not familiar with Yahoo Groups sites I'll briefly explain how we'll use ours.  On the site there is a message board that you can use to post comments that will be visible to everyone.  This can be used for in-game stuff as well as meta-game info.  There's also a section with shared files.  Here you can view or download rules, helpful notes, and maps.  A member directory will list emails by which other players may be contacted.  The photos section I'm going reserve to use to post the game map as it evolves with game play.  And the calendar function will be useful for keeping track of the diplomacy and order submission deadlines that we agree on.

I'm planning on writing some posts about basic game play for the newcomers.  It would be helpful if you read the review I posted (no-self promotion, just pragmatism) as it gives a decent background to the game.  The review can be found here:
http://www.timewastersguide.com/view.php?id=648

More to come.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 08, 2004, 02:13:31 PM
and thank you too Saint.

So we need OutKast, Gorgon, Jam, and Archon still.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Archon on October 08, 2004, 06:25:07 PM
[email protected]
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 08, 2004, 10:25:02 PM
I've sent invitations to everyone who's given email addresses so far.  If you're having problems getting in let me know and I'll fix it.

And I'll invite OutKast and Gorgon when I get the addresses they want to use.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Archon on October 09, 2004, 10:57:53 AM
Gorgon is out of state this weekend so it might be a little while.

Hey I dont know what is up with my email, I dont have your invitation. This is the second time this week that my email has messed up, and I dont know why.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 09, 2004, 09:37:20 PM
I'll resend it.

And so far Jam and I are the only members of the site.  Hopefully Archon's is an isolated incedent.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Archon on October 09, 2004, 11:36:38 PM
Once again, my email has decided that it wants me to brutally destroy it. You can try [email protected] or if you have any other ideas, feel free to share.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Master Xaio on October 10, 2004, 02:03:02 AM
master_xaio at yahoo dot com dot au
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on October 10, 2004, 09:10:56 AM
I joined this morning. I was doing family stuff Friday and had spotty internet all day yesterday.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Entsuropi on October 10, 2004, 09:13:26 AM
No email here. You could try sending it to [email protected] , thats my yahoo account.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 10, 2004, 01:48:26 PM
Okay, it turns out more than one person is having trouble getting in.  I apologize.

I've made it possible for anyone to join the group of their own accord.  I probably should have done that in the first place.  I won't send out any more invites.  Once everybody's in I'll just close off membership again.

So to join, go to the following address:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/diplomacybiscuitofkije/

I've checked it and it should let you in just fine.  When you're a member, edit your profile so that you are recognized.  My name on the site is twgkije.  (If you already have a Yahoo ID you can modify it for purposes of the site only, and it won't affect other yahoo functions.)  Also include the email address that you want to use for diplomatic purposes in the game.  If you signed up with a different email, you can change it.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: GorgonlaVacaTremendo on October 10, 2004, 09:39:27 PM
[email protected]
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Master Xaio on October 11, 2004, 07:06:39 AM
I've joined, and am in.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 11, 2004, 11:36:57 AM
Muy bien.  Just about everyone's in (gorgon - if you didn't catch it check out the above post with the link to the site.)

So what needs to happen now is a few posts giving an outline of the rules, and we should agree to some kind of schedule for the game.  Then it's go time!

For those not familiar with the game: the files section of the site has a complete copy of the rules if you're into reading them.  They're not that bad, and the only complicated part is towards the latter end of the "how to resolve orders" section where the situations get pretty tangled.  Aside from the very general discussion here on the board, I'd look at the document called "basic rules about moving and supporting" as well as the document about resolving orders.  The latter is a summary of all the rules that apply to resolving orders, and the first bunch are pretty straightforward and I'm guessing will cover 90% of the situations you'll encounter, so getting those down will help a lot.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 11, 2004, 11:48:46 AM
I just noticed that the summary of rules for resolving orders isn't up yet.  Sorry - I'll upload it tonight.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 11, 2004, 12:30:45 PM
So, the rules Part 1.

Different copies of the game map are available on the site.  You'll notice that it's Europe circa 1900, with the seven major powers being England, France, Germany, Italy, Austria, Russia, and Turkey.  Each of us will take the role of one of those powers.  You'll also notice that certain of the provinces have cities in them.  These cities are called "supply centers" for game purposes.  There are 34 supply centers on the board.  Some are within the bounds of the major powers and are controlled by those powers at the beginning of the game.  Others are independant and unclaimed.

The units of the game are armies and fleets.  The only difference between the two are where they can go on the game board.  Armies can occupy land provinces, while fleets can occupy sea zones and coastal land provinces.  Only one unit can occupy a province or sea zone at a time.  All units have the same strength.

Turns take place either during Spring or Fall.  The first turn is Spring of '01 (S01).  The difference between Spring and Fall is significant: the results of Fall turns may affect the size of each power's military, while the results of Spring turns will not.  Each power fields as many units as supply centers they control.  At the beginning each power has 3 supply centers (SCs) and thus 3 units (with the exception of Russia, which starts with 4 SCs and units.)  As the independent SCs come under the control of the powers, the number of units will increase.  As there are only 34 SCs on the board, there will almost always only be 34 units in the board, all powers combined.

When an unit occupies an SC on a Fall turn that unit's power gains control of that supply center.  Occupying an SC on a Spring turn does not grant control.  If a unit occupies an SC on a Spring turn it must remain there for the Fall turn to gain control of that SC.  After each Fall turn, the number of SCs that each player controls is counted and the number of units that each power fields is adjusted.  Sometimes powers lose units, in the which case the losing power chooses from all their units which to remove.  Sometimes units are gained, and powers gaining units must specify what kind of unit they are gaining (army or fleet) and where it will be placed.  New units can only be placed on one of the 3 original SCs (in Russia's case 4) of each power.

The first power to control 18 of the 34 SCs wins the game.  Games can also be terminated with the mutual consent of all players, in the which case all players remaining on the board share equally in a draw.  A player is eliminated when they do not control any more SCs and all their units are removed from the board.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 11, 2004, 01:29:14 PM
Rules Part 2:

Each Turn has four phases: Diplomatic, Order Writing, Order Resolution, Retreat/Disbanding.  In addition, each Fall turn has a fifth phase: Gaining/Losing Units.

The Diplomatic Phase:
The first phase in any turn is the diplomatic phase.  This is the phase where players comminicate each other for wahtever reason.  A player can try to establish a treaty with another player or players, make threats, coordinate action, collect intelligence, etc.  While talking may seem unimportant, this is in reality the crucial phase of each turn.  You will notice that each power has about as many units as they have fronts, if you count each bordering power a front.  One unit per front will not get you anywhere, and so some degree of cooperation is necessary to make any progress in the game.  

The diplomatic phase is the phase that takes the longest.  For this online game, we'll establish a time for the diplomatic phase.  (At present I'm thinking a week or so tops, but it will be something we establish as a group.)  Communication will take place by means of the message board on the site, the forum here at TWG, instant messages here at TWG, private emails (the email addresses are listed on the site,) or through chat.  I suppose if you wanted to phone, snailmail, or meet in person you could do that too whenever desired/convenient/practical.  But I imagine most communication will be electronic.  

There are no rules concerning the diplomatic phase except those regarding time limits that we will set.  That means you can say whatever you want and you will not be obligated to live up to what you say.  This is essential; players must (and will) be free to write whatever orders they choose, regardless of what was agreed upon in the diplomatic phase.

The Order Writing Phase
Following each diplomatic phase is an order writing phase.  This is where each player will write down the orders they want their units to carry out that turn.  The key here is clarity.  The orders must be written spcifically enough so that it may only be interpreted one way.  Ambiguous orders must be ignored.  This is why: after all players submit orders and they are resolved and the results are revealed, a player may point to an order and claim "that's not what I meant, I wanted this army to do this."  It very well may be the case that the player intended that, but it also may be that the player is unhappy with the result sof the turn and is trying to complain his way out of a bad decision.  (Note: not that I think anyone might try cheating this way.  I'm just explaining the justification for the rule.)  So any orders that are not precisely clear will be ignored, and the armies involved with those orders will not act that turn.  For transparency purposes I (the moderator) will post all orders exactly as I receive them so that all may see exactly what each player wrote and how those orders resulted in what happened on the game board.  

So how do you write precisely clear orders?  There is a guide on the site with instructions.  If you follow that guide then you pretty much can't go wrong.  Just be sure that what you write is what you want.  When specifying locations, feel free to write out the entire name of the province or sea zone.  If you choose to use abbreviations, make sure they are specific enough to only refer to one location on the board.  One of the reference maps (I believe it's map B) is good for giving those abbreviations.  It says in the top left corner to use the first three letters of any location, or if an abbreviation is given to use the given abbreviation instead.  For places like Norway, North Sea, etc. "Nor" is not specific enough.  Hence the map gives specific abbreviations (I believe Norway = "Nwy" North Sea = "Nth".)  The abbreviations on that map are the standard and if you use them the moderator will know exactly what you are referring to.

We will decide on a set time for writing orders also.  Orders should be submitted by the deadline.  This is where slowdowns could happen.  A player can go for a turn without conducting any diplomacy, but if they don't submit orders that's a problem.  I will try not to be heavy-handed with enforcing the order submission deadline.  I'll try and give leeway, and of course if there are extenuating circumstances we'll try and work around them.  But I don't ever want the game to slow down to the point that people lose interest, and if a player just can't manage to get orders in then we'll assume their armies do nothing.  
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 11, 2004, 01:51:09 PM
I just realized that by my own description there's a way for the moderator to cheat.  I could (as the moderator and a player) wait to receive all the orders, read them, and then write my own to the best advantage.  

I hope you would all trust me not to do this.  I hope this game is fun for everyone involved, including myself, and cheating in that way would not be fun at all.  Half of the tension of the game is trying to figure out what exactly is going to happen after all the diplomacy's taken place, and how to write orders to advance your cause and yet not expose yourself overly to betrayal.  To know whom to trust and when.

I give you my promise to never read any of the orders submitted to me as moderator until after I as a player have written my own.  If anyone can't accept that promise as sufficient evidence of my intentions let me know what will work for you.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 11, 2004, 03:30:33 PM
Rules Part 3:

The Order Resolution Phase
This phase is going to be the responsibilityof the moderator.  I, as moderator, will try and do this as timely as possible so that all players can see the results of that turn's orders not too long after the orders were given.  As it is the moderator's responsibility to resolve orders only the moderator needs to know all the rules concerning order resolution.  Of course, it behooves each player to have a grasp on how orders are resolved also.  Knowing the rules helps a player to predict the outcomes with greater accuracy, and to plan more effectively for a variety of outcomes.  As I have mentioned before, most of the rules regarding order resolution are fairly basic and easy to understand.  Some of the latter rules can be a bit complicated.  In any case, a complete copy of the rules is available on the site, and each of the resolution rules are given, explained, and illustrated with a hypothetical situation (including graphics.)  As I mentioned before, I'll include a summary of all of those rules which you can read and comprehend to your satisfaction, referring to the complete rules to get a more detailed explanation when desired.  But do look these rules over, and ask questions.

At the end of this phase the moderator will post all orders as they were received, as well as a new version of the game board which reflects the results for that turn.

The Retreat/Disbanding Phase
It may be necessary after orders have been resolved for some units to retreat.  Units that were pushed out of the locations they occupied need to be moved somewhere else.  If this is the case, the player/s with units that are retreating must send in retreat orders for the affected units, to the tune of "Army in Paris retreats to Picardy."  If multiple players must give retreat orders they may not consult with one another.  After the moderator receives and resolves all retreat orders the map is adjusted the phase ends.

If a unit is forced to retreat and there is nowhere for it to go, it is automatically dibanded (removed from the board.)  If two retreating units are ordered to retreat to the same province/sea zone, they are both disbanded.  A unit does have the option of voluntarily disbanding instead of retreating.

After the retreat/disbanding phase ends the turn is over and the next turn begins with a new diplomacy phase, unless it is a Fall turn.

The Gaining/Losing Units Phase
At the end of each Fall turn it may become necessary to adjust the number of units each power possesses.  As mentioned before, the number of units each power possesses depends on the number of SCs that power controls after Fall order resolution and retreats.  If a power has more units than SCs that it controls, it must remove units until the number of units equals the number of SCs it controls.  It may choose which unit/s to remove.  If a power controls more SCs than units, it may add units until the total number of units equals the number of SCs it controls.  A player may be entitled to add (build) a unit, but may decline from doing so.  

When building a unit, the new unit must be placed in one of the original SCs that the power possessed at the beginning of the game.  If all of those SCs are occupied, the power may not build a new unit(s) that turn.  Players who have lost all their original SCs but still have control over others may continue to fight, but may not build new units until they regain control of one of the original SCs.

If powers are losing or gaining units, they must write orders for which units are to be gained and lost.  Be specific; invalid or vague build orders must be ignored.  These orders are written without discussion between players.  After all necessary disbandments and builds have been completed the turn ends and a new turn begins with a diplomacy phase.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 12, 2004, 11:11:38 AM
Quote
I just noticed that the summary of rules for resolving orders isn't up yet.  


It's up now.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 12, 2004, 03:27:14 PM
Does everyone have a handle on the rules?  Any questions?  Are we ready to get started?

Here's a tentative schedule: ~1 week for diplomacy, 2 days for order writing, order resolution ASAP after orders are in, and retreats/builds/disbands ASAP after that.  

We can work out the schedule as we go, but does that sound alright?  I'm trying to be conservative because I want these to be deadlines (flexible deadlines) that are easily met.  So does the above seem too short?  Too long?

As soon as we get everyone on the site I'll draw for powers for each player.  It will be random.  I don't have a preference, so there's no reason to fear me rigging the draw.

So now's a great time to ask any questions/give any feedback on what's been discussed already.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on October 12, 2004, 03:39:23 PM
My SMTP servers aren't working. I'm trying to correct the problem, but it's a pain to send email till I get that going. That's just an FYI. Can we wait a couple days to start?
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 12, 2004, 03:42:12 PM
No prob.  I was wanting to hear from everyone before starting anyways.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: GorgonlaVacaTremendo on October 12, 2004, 10:35:23 PM
been...very...busy...

I'm sorry for running behind, just got back in town, and I have been really busy.  So, I'll chug those rules down soon and test out that yahoo site.  I don't think I'll be able to reach it here, but I can at the school I think.  I'll get back to you.  Unless I otherwise alert you I'll be fine for playing, though.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on October 13, 2004, 09:15:07 PM
ok, smtp is working now. I'm ready to go when everyone else is.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Master Xaio on October 13, 2004, 10:54:04 PM
I'm fine, ready to go whenever.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 14, 2004, 08:23:12 PM
Saint - is there a reason you're off the yahoo site?  Apparently you are no longer a member.

And we're still waiting for Gorgon.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: GorgonlaVacaTremendo on October 14, 2004, 08:29:50 PM
So very sorry, I can't seem to get to the site either here or at school, so I'll have to make weekly vistits your house, Archon, or Onion, since I spend a lot of time there already.  I can do all the diplomacy on TWG or over e-mail, so I'd only need to pop the maps on a disk every week.  

I can even tell you, Kije, where I want my troops to move through e-mail or PMS, right?  I mean, once I get the maps I'm golden until the next turn...?

So I just need to get signed up, I'll do that before sunday I'm sure.  Sorry for delaying the game...
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on October 15, 2004, 08:51:06 AM
No clue. I'll check on it.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Spriggan on October 15, 2004, 09:04:40 AM
That's because Yahoo groups sucks big time, and lots of proxies block them since there's a lot of pr0n and other stuff schools, busnisses don't want you seeing.

If you just need a forum just use TWG, we can create a board for you, and use the PM's to send messages to your allies and such.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on October 15, 2004, 09:32:29 AM
Ah. It's because Yahoo is exceedingly retarded, and even though I told it to mail my other account, it's still trying to send to yahoo, which I never check, and which bounces everything (it's probably full).
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 15, 2004, 12:24:41 PM
Sorry - I expected some gripes, but explained my use of the yahoo group in an earlier post.  

And gorgon - yeah, the site is where you can find resources like maps and such.  You'd only need to get into the site to check those.  You can conduct diplomacy and submit orders through private messaging and emails, so that would be fine.

All - I'll make a database on the site with everyone's email addresses and the powers they are playing.  I'll go ahead and draw for powers and post the results on the site and here.  Expect that sometime today.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on October 15, 2004, 12:39:16 PM
oh, i wasn't complaining necessarilya bout your choice. I was complaining about Yahoo not using the address I told them to use. The only reason we need to be there is for those files and the map updates right? Then don't worry about me, I can see 'em. Just email my se@twg address.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 15, 2004, 03:12:33 PM
Okay...here goes...

SaintEhlers = Austria
Entropy = Italy
JamPaladin = Russia
OutKast = France
GorgonTheWonderCow = Turkey
Lieutenant Kije = Germany
Archon = England

I've added a database to the site called "Who's who" with this information as well as the email addresses that can be used to reach each player.  Again, this choosing process was random (the only random element in the game) and no, I didn't fidge with the results.

Also, since this is an online game and not a sit-down affair I see no reason to distinguish between the diplomacy and order writing phases.  So both will have the same deadline.  I'm thinking Thursday nightish (USMountain Time which is Greenwich -7 or 8,) and I'll look for them Friday morningish (I know we're spanning hemispheres here.)

So you can submit orders anytime you want.  If you want to change your mind just resubmit orders befoe the deadine and I'll use the latest submission.

Send orders to my email (n8hatfield at hotmail dot com) and in the subject line say "ORDERS" so I'll know not to open the email until we're ready to resolve them.

Oh, and when you're sending emails for game purposes it might be nice to throw "diplomacy" into the subject line just so the recipient knows what it is.  Just a pointer.

So...have at it!  (That means we're starting - yay!)
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on October 15, 2004, 03:29:38 PM
I wanna point out right now, I don't ever check my forum PMs. Email me or I won't see it.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 15, 2004, 04:38:46 PM
On the site, in the photos section I will be posting the maps as the game progresses.  Currently posted is "1901a (Spring)" which shows the board at the beginning of the game.  Remember - this is a Spring turn, so occupying SCs by the end of the turn will not give you units.  That only happens on a Fall turn.

And Jam, the fleet in St. Petersburg is located on the southern coast.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on October 15, 2004, 11:41:37 PM
Kije, Can you explain Diagram 14 on page 9 of the rule book to me? I thought that even though the unit was dislodged, It could still attack, and the unit leaving the territory didn't count. therefore, the supported unit dislodged from Bulgaria should be able to take Rumania. Does being dislodged prevent your movement?

nm, the dislodged unit can still attack, but cannot affect the dislodging territory. Got it.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: GorgonlaVacaTremendo on October 16, 2004, 01:08:22 PM
Would someone be kind enough to post here the way battles are performed and determined, I don't think that one was posted on the forum, and I can't get to it through yahoo.  

And I haven't see the maps yet, and Archon's internet has been down for a few days, so the two of us might need a deadline that is farther away than thursday, depending on how events unfold.  And just FYI for everyone, while I do check my PMs, I can't reach them from school, so I'd prefer E-mail to
[email protected].  

And if anyone wanted to talk to me about the game, I wont be responding until Archon gets his internet back up or I otherwise see the maps.  So, yeah, I'll post here when I've seen the maps.  If anyone decides to talk to me for whatever reason about the game before then, you'll have to send a map pasted into your e-mail.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on October 16, 2004, 03:43:22 PM
Want me to email you the rules? Just under 3 meg PDF
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: GorgonlaVacaTremendo on October 16, 2004, 10:09:23 PM
That would be wonderful SE.  I should have plenty of room, let me know if it gives you a message saying I don't have enough memory.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on October 17, 2004, 11:02:46 AM
hrm... well... I can't get my smtp to work again. I'm going to have to check some things out.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 18, 2004, 12:34:20 PM
Okay - busy weekend but I'm back.  It's nice to see that people have started communicating already.  Since there is some difficulty with some people getting into the site I'm going to start a new thread and post what files I can to that thread, so that if you can't get into the site but can get onto TWG you can get them.

And we can discuss a new deadline, Jam.  What does everyone think?  Currently it's thursday night US Mountain time.  Should we push it back a bit?  If so, a week?
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on October 18, 2004, 12:56:47 PM
I can upload the docs to a space. That'll be easy. I can probably even do it during lunch (now).
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on October 18, 2004, 12:58:09 PM
oh, and I did get that email off to Gorgon. It hasn't been returned since Saturday Night, So I'm assuming it got through.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on October 18, 2004, 01:05:51 PM
I just did. Every file, including the current map, is available on my site:

http://www.saintehlers.com/misc/Diplomacy/

I think Kije should email us the current maps, and I'll upload it to be redundant, posting a link here.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on October 18, 2004, 01:10:34 PM
and one more thing: I edited your first post in the other thread, Kije, to include a link to the complete rules and the folder where I dumped everything.

I also put in that folder a file with everyone's basic information.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 19, 2004, 03:31:54 PM
There have been questions concerning battles, dislodgement, and convoys.  I'll attempt to go over the basics of each here.

Battles:
The battles of diplomacy are quite different than the battles of other strategy board games like Risk, A&A, etc.  The latter games involve 2 units squaring off against each other, with one the victor and the other removed, while Diplomacy is more like jockeying for position.   As I mentioned in the "basics on moving and supporting" it's easier to think of attacking as pushing or simply moving.  If you want to move into a space, you order the unit to move there.  If know you will encounter resistance (or think you might) you can use your own units (that are in adjacent spaces) to support the move, or enlist the support of friendly units belonging to another player.

Some things you need to remember: only one unit in a space at a time.  All units have the exact same strength.  So it's basically strength in numbers.  If you have more units supporting you than your opponent has supporting him, you get what you want (i.e. you move into the space if you were trying to move, or you stay if you were trying to stay.)  You can have units support you if you just want to stay in a province too, and think someone might try and move into it.

Dislodgement:
When a unit gets pushed out of a space, it is dislodged.  It is not removed from the board or "killed," it is just pushed out.  The owner of the unit that is pushed out has to decide where the unit gets pushed to, and there are a couple of rules concerning this.  One, for example, is that a unit that gets dislodged cannot retreat (which is what happend when you're dislodged: you retreat) into the same province that the attacking army came from, the "attacking army" being the army that pushed you out.  You cannot retreat into a province that is already occupied, either (only one unit per space.)  If there's just nowhere to go, then the unit is removed from the board.  A player can also choose to voluntarily remove a unit instead of retreating, even if there are places to retreat to.

Pushing units out of space is important, because the goal is to occupy the supply centers.  The number of supply centers you occupy at the end of a Fall turn determines how many units you have.  That's how you "kill" units: you occupy your opponent's supply centers and cause him to have to remove units after a Fall turn.

Convoying:
Convoying is using ships to move armies across the water.  As you are aware, an army cannot occupy a sea zone.  So to move an army from London to Belgium, for example, you need a ship in the sea zone between the two land spaces (either the North Sea or the English Channel.)  You write the order for the army to move to the desired space (A Lon-Bel, or Army in London moves to Belgium.)  Then you write the order for the fleet to convoy the army (F Nth C A Lon-Bel, or Fleet in North Sea convoys the army from London to Belgium.)  The army will then move to Belgium.

That is, unless the move is contested.  Regular rules about pushing apply, and if someone pushes against your convoyed army, and they push harder (have more support) than you, your army will not be able to convoy.  You can have units supporting your convoy, so you can push harder also.  Just remember that as in regular conflicts, whoever pushes hardest in convoys wins.  Also remember that equal forces repel.  A fleet convoying an army does not count as supporting that army, so if an army is being convoyed into a space it is pushing with a strength of 1 (itself.)  If that space is already occupied, and the occupying army isn't moving anywhere else on this turn (it's holding) then the convoy will fail.  (1 vs. 1 = defender stays.)

Convoys can also get broken up if the fleet that is convoying the army gets dislodged.  

Notice that convoying an army takes up the whole action for a fleet on a turn.  Each unit can only be ordered to do one thing per turn, and so you cannot ordera  fleet to convoy, and then move somewhere else on the same turn.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 19, 2004, 03:33:44 PM
Quote
I think Kije should email us the current maps, and I'll upload it to be redundant, posting a link here.


Sorry - I just noticed this.  I'll email everyone the current map.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 19, 2004, 03:53:43 PM
Done.  

And anyone care if we bump the deadline back some?  If not, do you care by how much?
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on October 19, 2004, 04:42:03 PM
I don't much care when first orders go out.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 20, 2004, 11:06:20 AM
Well, we've got one person who doesn't care, and one person who's submitted orders already.  Do you need another week, JP?  Or will a few days suffice?  We could say Saturday or Sunday night (US Mtn.T.)  
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: GorgonlaVacaTremendo on October 20, 2004, 08:36:42 PM
I'd like to state that due to unforseen circumstances I will need to recieve all mail VIA TWG PM or to [email protected].  Sorry for the switch-up.  If you send me things to my before mentioned yahoo account I will only be able to check it from about 10-11 monday through friday.  So if you sent me things there already, I'll get it tomorrow if I haven't already.  Otherwise, yeah, use [email protected]  You can also AIM me at RingTLemur, so, yeah.

Kije, I have to ask a few things about the rules.
A)to support an army does the supporting army have to be connected to the province the attacking army is moving into or moving from?

B)If a convoy is broken up, do the troops being convoyed return to the space they origionated, or do they get removed from the board?

C) Can you convoy over a series of turns to move over a huge chunk of ocean, or do you have to follow those red lines, like in RISK?
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: GorgonlaVacaTremendo on October 20, 2004, 09:22:00 PM
So that would be, uh, early Sunday or late saturday here?
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Entsuropi on October 20, 2004, 10:03:17 PM
A week extra please.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 21, 2004, 02:32:26 AM
A week it is.  Next Thursday then.  We'll work out exactly when what with all that wacky international date line and everything when we get closer to it.

And for Gorgon:
Quote
A)to support an army does the supporting army have to be connected to the province the attacking army is moving into or moving from?

The supporting unit must be adjacent to the space the attacking unit is moving into.  You must be adjacent to the space to be able to offer support into it.  You do not need to be adjancent to the province where the "attacker" is coming from.  As an example, if an army is moving from Kiel to Berlin, and the army in Munich wants to support that army moving into Berlin, the support order would read like this:

A Mun S A Kie-Ber
(or the army in Munich supports the army moving from Kiel to Berlin)  

Quote
B)If a convoy is broken up, do the troops being convoyed return to the space they origionated, or do they get removed from the board?

The troops just fail to convoy.  It is as if they never boarded the ships, and they remain in the space where they started the turn, provided they do not get dislodged themselves.

Quote
C) Can you convoy over a series of turns to move over a huge chunk of ocean, or do you have to follow those red lines, like in RISK?

There are no lines like in Risk.  If you wish to convoy, you must complete the convoy in one turn.  You cannot have an army "board" a ship, then move the ship the next turn to a new sea zone, and have the army "unboard" into a land space.  It isn't helpful to think that convoyed armies occupy the ships that are convoying them.  Just pretend that the ships are bridges that armies can use to cross over or something.

Now, if you want to convoy over two or more sea zones it is possible, all on one turn.  You just have to have a fleet of your own (or a friendly fleet from another player) in each of the sea zones through which you wish to convoy the army.  So if you had fleets in each sea zone all the way from the Gulf of Bothnia to the Adriatic sea, you could convoy an army from Finland to Trieste in one turn.  It would be difficult to manage, but possible.

Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 22, 2004, 11:52:36 AM
So by this time next week (wherever you are in the world) all orders should be in.  Midnight Thursday night US Mountain Time was more or less 9 hours ago as of this posting.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: GorgonlaVacaTremendo on October 22, 2004, 05:17:32 PM
So, when I convoy some troops they basically skip over that space?
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 22, 2004, 05:38:41 PM
Yes, the armies 'skip over' the sea zone.

I don't know if I mentioned this before, but the fleet that convoys the army doesn't count as supporting the army in its move.  It just convoys it.  In case you were wondering or thinking otherwise.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: GorgonlaVacaTremendo on October 23, 2004, 07:59:00 PM
So, if I have my army in a supply center/city or whatever you call it at the end of a FALL turn it becomes mine?  And do I loose these centers if I move troops out?

Also, on the starter map how do I distiguish troops from fleets?  I was assuming fleets were triangles and troops were the others, but I want to make sure.

Can fleets occupy coastal supply centers like troops can?  In addition, can troops defend fleets in coastal zones, as in back them up?  And Vice Versa?
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on October 24, 2004, 12:02:34 AM
Quote
So, if I have my army in a supply center/city or whatever you call it at the end of a FALL turn it becomes mine?  And do I loose these centers if I move troops out?

Well, it's yours if you get it in spring too. It just doesn't give you extra troops unless you hold it at the end of Fall. You don't lose production centers if they are not occupied.

Quote
Also, on the starter map how do I distiguish troops from fleets?  I was assuming fleets were triangles and troops were the others, but I want to make sure.

You are correct. Triangles are fleets. Circles are armies.

Quote
Can fleets occupy coastal supply centers like troops can?  In addition, can troops defend fleets in coastal zones, as in back them up?  And Vice Versa?


Yes, yes, and yes. Those are correct assumptions. They cannot support each other if the ships are in the sea instead of the coastal zone, or if the armies are on a land that is not a coastal zone, however. The rule, most simply stated, is that a unit can support any other unit that is in a territory the supporting unit can legally move to.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 25, 2004, 11:30:20 AM
So, about 4 days (96 hours) until orders should be in.  Hopefully everyone's got a grasp on the rules.  

If you've been meaning to talk to that cute country in the corner but haven't worked up the nerve...now's the time to do it!

Just so you don't get caught flat-footed, make sure you understand how to write orders.  That's important.  Overviews of how to do this correctly can be found on the site, on SaintEhler's page (link at the top of the "Diplomacy Refernce Files" thread,) or in the "Diplomacy Refernce Files" thread.  Please ask questions if you need to.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Master Xaio on October 25, 2004, 10:44:40 PM
I'm pretty sure the answer to this has already been posted, but I'm still a little hazy on one thing; movement over sea.  As an example, say I want to move an army from france to england --> how do I know which 'squares' I can move from and which ones I will arrive from?  I know I'm missing something but yes, apologies for being dense.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on October 25, 2004, 10:59:19 PM
movement of ships? They can move one space, into and out of any space that has some water in it. For convoys? the army starts in a coast (a space with land and water) the navy starts in an adjacent space, the army then moves through the space the navy occupies into a coastal space adjacent to the space the navy is in.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Master Xaio on October 26, 2004, 07:27:13 AM
Hm.  So those lines across the sea denote spaces? Ah... as they weren't joined, that clear, I didn't really get that.  Ok, all cleared up, thank you very much SE.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: 42 on October 26, 2004, 08:51:09 AM
So I played Diplomacy at MileHiCon. It's an evil, evil game. With that said, for those of you playing here, don't trust anyone.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 26, 2004, 11:54:54 AM
No, no, no 42.  To wax philosophic, Diplomacy is just like life: it has the potential for being evil.  You have to trust people, or you'll fail miserably.  The tricky part is deciding who to trust and when.  Which adds so much tension that it makes for a fantastic game.  In my opinion.

And just so nobody's confused, the lines in the water delineate borders between sea zones.  They are not like in Risk, where armies can use them to cross over the water.  I only repeat this here because it's come up more than once.  

It hasn't come up but it may, so I'll just say it in advance: the only island units can occupy is England.  Ireland, Iceland, and anything in the Mediterranean is out.  They're just there on some maps for geographic realism.  You'll notice the "basic map" (the authority map for geographic relationships) doesn't show them.  Switzerland is also off-limits.

Don't worry about being dense OutKast.  :)  Just kidding - there are no stupid questions when it comes to understanding the rules.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: 42 on October 26, 2004, 11:13:25 PM
Yes you do have to trust people in order to win Diplomacy. You also have to backstab someone in order to win.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Master Xaio on October 27, 2004, 07:30:41 AM
Quote
Don't worry about being dense OutKast.


Thanks... I think.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 27, 2004, 11:45:13 AM
 :)

Okay, so about a day and a half until orders should be coming in.  Feel free to submit orders today or any time tomorrow.  The sooner we get all the orders in the sooner you'll be able to see the results.  When submitting please include the following information in the subject: "diplomacy," "orders," and your country's name.  (My email address, if you've forgotten, in listed on my profile.)

I have orders for one country already.  If you submitted orders but want to change your mind (and it's before the cutoff) then just resubmit; as moderator I'll use only the latest set of orders that I receive from any country.

I've said this more than once before, but it's important: make sure you know how to write orders.  I will be bound by the rules to ignore any orders that are unclear or ambiguous, and bound to hold you to what your orders say even if it's not what you intended.  Now's the time to ask questions, not after the fact.  Again, instructions on writing orders can be found on the site, in the diplomacy reference files thread, or on SaintEhler's site (linked on post 1 of the diplomacy refernce files thread.)
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 28, 2004, 11:28:24 AM
So today's the last day to get orders in!  I have received orders for 3 of the 7 powers.  I will not say who has yet to submit until tomorrow (if I have to,) just to keep an air of secrecy about things.

I'll check my box tomorrow morning (about 24 hours from now) and if I have everyone's orders I'll try and have the results posted within 24 hours of that (it really depends on how work goes.)
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 29, 2004, 01:39:33 AM
Now, or sometime in the near future, would be an excellent time to send orders.  n8hatfield at hotmail dotcom, subject: "diplomacy orders [your country here]"
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 29, 2004, 01:14:40 PM
Okay - I've got everyone's orders in but England's (Archon) and Italy's (Entropy).  If anyone has any contact with them outside the forum could you remind them?  

As I stated before, I'm not going to be heavy-handed with the deadlines, but if a couple days go by and I still get no orders I'm going to have to assume that the countries in question do nothing.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 29, 2004, 02:42:28 PM
Italy's in - thanks Entropy - so it's just England now.

Unless anyone objects terribly,  I'm going to open the orders that I've received so far just to check over them.  It's the first turn and even though I've emphasized writing orders correctly, there may still be problems and while we're waiting I might be able to clear any up.  This wouldn't interfere with any game mechanics as I have the orders in my possession and no one is aware of anyone else's orders yet.

For transparency's sake, I wrote myself an email with my orders on Thursday, which I can forward to anyone after all orders are posted (should they require it) as proof that my orders were in pre-deadline and unchanged post-deadline.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 30, 2004, 01:20:55 PM
Okay!  All orders are in and I will work today to get everything posted.  I will post all orders here and on the site, as well as a new map on the site.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 30, 2004, 09:45:41 PM
Okay, here's a list of the orders as I received them.  Again, should anyone doubt (not that you don't trust me, but for transparency's sake) I can forward anyone any of the dated emails I received as proof of the orders.  

Some people submitted "hold" orders, which is fine (giving orders for each of my units, even hold orders, helps me keep track of them) but I didn't include them below, as all units without orders hold anyways.

Austria
F Trieste - Albania
A Budapest - Romania
A Vienna - Tyrolia

England
F Edinburg - Yorkshire

France
A Paris - Burgundy
A Marseille - Spain

Germany
F Kiel - Denmark
A Berlin - Kiel
A Munich - Ruhr

Italy
A Rome - Apulia

Russia
F St. Petersburg - Gulf of Bothnia
F Sevastopol - Black Sea
A Warsaw - Ukraine
A Moscow - St. Petersburg

Turkey
A Constantinople - Bulgaria
A Smyrna - Constantinople

All orders were carried out successfully, as there were no conflicts.  A new map is available at the site (1901b (Fall)) in the photos section.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 30, 2004, 09:53:19 PM
So now the next turn (Fall 1901) begins.  Remember: after this turn the number of units are adjusted to reflect the number of supply centers you control.  The supply centers are the spaces with black dots on the map (they're underlined on the blocky "basic map".)  To gain control of a supply center, you must have a unit in that province with the supply center at the end of the Fall turn (and this coming turn is a Fall turn.)  You do not need to have units in supply center provinces that you have controlled in the past; you will retain control of a supply center until a unit of another power takes control of it (by occupying it at the end of a Fall turn.)

Let's give a week for diplomacy, so next Saturday night (US Mountain time) we'll get new orders in.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on October 30, 2004, 11:28:36 PM
I posted the map (http://www.saintehlers.com/misc/Diplomacy/1901b+(Fall).jpg) to my site (no cookies needed!)
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on October 31, 2004, 02:44:22 PM
thanks Saint
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 04, 2004, 11:56:53 AM
So just a few days left.  Remember the orders submission deadline is midnightish -7 or 8 GMT on Saturday (which is Sunday for JP, I believe.)

I have received two sets of orders already; feel free to submit early if you're ready.

And remember that after this turn the number of units each powers fields is recalculated.  For a brief summary on how that's done see reply #103 (page 7, bottom) of this thread.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 04, 2004, 12:13:21 PM
One more thing:

Since units will be added (and possibly removed, butn ot likely) we will have an additional orders-writing period after all of the regular orders are submitted.  Once I have everyone's orders for this turn I will post them as soon as I can, along with the builds/disbands for each power.  I will need to receive build/disband orders for each power affected.  

For example, if England were to have one build they might write an order like one of these:
Build fleet in London
Build army in Edinburgh

Those orders are to be written without conducting any diplomacy at all, so if you want to talk to another player about where you're going to be building stuff after this turn, now's the time to do it.  The build/disband orders deadline should only be two days (max) after the results are posted.  So to plan for that, be thinking about how many (if any) units you might have to build or disband, and be thinking about where you want that to happen.

Remember: you can only build new units on one of your initial supply centers (for Italy, for example, that would be Venice, Rome, and Naples.)  If all those centers are occupied you can't build anything at all, even if you're entitled to!
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 06, 2004, 05:56:29 PM
Okay, tomight's the night.  So in roughly 10-12 hours if you could have your orders in that would be wonderful.  And remember to be thinking about where you want to build your units if you think you will be getting some.  I'll send out an email reminder also.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 06, 2004, 06:00:04 PM
Okay, so I just checked my email and I've got orders from everyone but England and France,  Thanks all!
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Master Xaio on November 06, 2004, 08:40:47 PM
Submitting now, apologies for it being late.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 06, 2004, 09:49:29 PM
Got 'em.  By the way, you weren't late at all.  In fact, you were early.  I was just getting a little proactive with gathering the orders.  

So now, England!  As soon as we get those I'll review and make sure no one still misunderstands the orders writing process, I'll resolve all the orders, and I'll let you know who needs to build how many, and get the where from you.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Archon on November 06, 2004, 10:17:01 PM
Mine should be submitted.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 07, 2004, 12:25:00 AM
Got it.  Thanks!  

Admittedly, my internet access is spotty over the next day or so until next evening as I am babysitting nieces and nephews while their parents are away.  I will try and look over the orders and get some results posted soon.  Thanks all - very timely with the orders submissions!
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 08, 2004, 11:18:15 AM
Okay, I'm back.  What we're waiting on now are some clarifications and a set of retreat orders that I thought I'd solicit while we're waiting for the other stuff.  I've got most of the orders resolved but am waiting to post them all until I get them all.  

I guess in the meantime I'll solicit build orders from those who have them so far.  Here's the list of who needs to build what:

Austria: 2 units
France: 2 units
Germany: 1 unit
Russia: 2 units

There may be others, but I have to wait on the clarifications that should be coming soon.

If you want to send me build orders already feel free; you may want to wait and see what the board looks like before you do.  I should have the results and everything posted by this time tomorrow, at the latest.

If you do plan on submitting a build order (you are not required to build, even if you are entitled to) they should look like this:

"Build Army in Naples"  or  "Build Fleet in Rome"

Remember, you can only build units in one of the three original supply centers (in Russia's case four) that you had at the beginning of the game.  If one of those original supply centers is occupied already, you can't build there.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on November 08, 2004, 11:23:26 AM
I really need to see the map before I place my new units.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 08, 2004, 11:56:11 AM
Yeah.

Add to the builds the following:

Turkey: 1 unit.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 08, 2004, 02:48:33 PM
If anyone has contact with Archon outside the net can you make sure he responds to the diplomacy(moderator) emails I sent to him?  It would be much appreciated.  
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 08, 2004, 05:21:46 PM
Okay - I'm glad we were able to get everything.

I should have the orders and results posted shortly, followed by a new map.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 08, 2004, 06:18:20 PM
Alright - Fall 1901
All orders that were successful will be displayed normally.  All orders that were unsuccessful (due to conflicts) will be included, but have a strikethrough through them.  So strating alphabetically:

Austria
F Albania - Greece
A Rumania - Bulgaria
A Tyrolia - Munich

England
F London - English Channel
F Yorkshire - London

France
F Brest - English Channel
A Burgundy - Belgium

Germany
F Denmark - Skagerrak
A Kiel - Denmark
A Ruhr - Holland

Italy
F Naples -Ionian Sea
A Venice - Tyrolia

Russia
F Gulf of Bothnia - Sweden
A St. Petersburg - Finland
A Ukraine - Rumania
F Black Sea S A Rumania - Bulgaria

Turkey
A Bulgaria - Greece
A Constantinople - Bulgaria

As the unit in Bulgaria was forced out, Turkey gave the following retreat order:

Army in Bulgaria retreats to Serbia


Commentary
If you're very comfortable with how th erules worka nd orders are resolved you really don't need to read this.  It's just an educational explanation of why some things happened the way they did.

Standoffs:
2 standoffs happened this round.  One when a Turkish army and an Austrian fleet were both ordered to Greece, and one where an English fleet and a French fleet were both ordered to the English Channel.  Equal forces repel, so in both cases the units were forced to remain as they were.  Also in both cases, the standoffs created problems for other orders.  The English fleet ordered to move into London was not able to, as London was already occupied due to the standoff.  The same happened with the Turkish army ordered to move to Constantinople.

You will also notice that an army in Rumania forced an ormy out of Bulgaria.  This is because it had the support of another unit (a force of two is greater than a force of one.)  You'll also notice that the unit that forced it out, and the unit supporting the force-out were from different powers.  

The unit that was forced out (the army in Bulgaria) was then forced to retreat.  It could not retreat into Greece, because of the standoff.  It could not retreat into Constantinople because it was still occupied (due to traffic from the standoff.)  It could not retreat into Rumania as a unit cannot retreat into the province from which it was attacked.  The only option left was Serbia, and the army retreated there.  

You will also notice that Serbia has a supply center.  Since a Turkish army occupied it at the end of a Fall turn (even as a result of retreating) Turkey gets to build an additional unit because it now controls that supply center.

Feel free to ask any questions about how the orders were resolved.  And if you think I did something incorrectly let me know; I'm not perfect.

New map to follow when I can get to it (hopefully soon.)

So all the builds I mentioned before I need orders for.  They are:
Russia: 2
Austria: 2
Germany: 1
France: 2
Turkey: 1

Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 08, 2004, 07:09:22 PM
Okay.  The new map's created but I can't post it yet (wacky work computer won't recognize jpegs when I try to save them for some reason.)  Map will be up by 11pm -7/8 GMT tonight at the latest.  Possibly earlier.

I've adjusted the color of the provinces to reflect current ownership.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 08, 2004, 11:36:08 PM
It's up on the site in the photos section.

So I'll wait for build orders from Austria, France, Russia, Germany, and Turkey.  Remember to specify where, as well as what (army or fleet) you're building.  And as soon as we get them all in we can get on with another round of diplomacy!

Now that I think about it, I'll edit the map when the new units are built to reflect their additions.  But the Spring 1902 map is good to use to see where you might want to build.  If you have any questions about building, feel free to ask.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on November 08, 2004, 11:49:24 PM
it's on my site too (http://www.saintehlers.com/misc/Diplomacy/1902a+(Spring).jpg)
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Gemm: Rock & Roll Star; Born to Rock on November 09, 2004, 12:25:32 AM
Well, France seems to be doing well. But I'm rooting for Russia. Go baby, go!
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 09, 2004, 11:38:56 AM
Okay - I've got all build orders except for Turkey.  If you catch this post, Gorgon, here are your options:

(I'm not giving away anything that isn't obvious, else I'd do this through email)

Build army in Smyrna
Build fleet in Smyrna
do not build at all (even though you are entitled to)

When I get your order, which you can email or post here, I'll finish the map and post it this evening, and we can begin a new round of diplomacy!
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 10, 2004, 11:13:48 AM
Sorry - nothing yet.  If I don't get an order by this time tomorrow, I'm going to flip a coin to see what Turkey gets.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on November 10, 2004, 11:27:29 AM
two coins: both places he has are coastal, so can build fleets or armies.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 10, 2004, 11:36:11 AM
He can actually only build in Smyrna.  Ankara and Constantinople are both occupied.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on November 10, 2004, 11:39:07 AM
that'll teach me to go by memory. Ok, just one. but make sure it comes up tails. You may need to toss another coin to choose whether tails means fleet or army.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 10, 2004, 01:34:03 PM
Apparently no flippage necessary: Thanks Gorgon!

While I can't post the map until this afternoon (stupid work computer) I will list where all the new units were built and you can look off the current map until then.

The following new units were built:

Austria: A(rmy) Trieste, A Budapest
France: A Paris, A Marseilles
Germany: A Berlin
Russia: A St. Petersburg, A Sevastopol
Turkey: F(leet) Smyrna

So a new round of diplomacy begins!  Shall we say next Tuesday night -7/8 GMT for a deadline?
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on November 10, 2004, 03:15:30 PM
Kije, can two units that aren't moving support each other?

so say my two new units aren't going anywhere. They share a border. Are these valid orders?:

A Trieste S Budapest
A Budapest S Trieste

Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 10, 2004, 03:51:13 PM
Yes.  Those are legal orders.  

If the army in Treiste were a fleet, you'd have a problem (but it's not and you don't.)
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on November 10, 2004, 04:32:08 PM
incidentally, if any of you think I was going to use two armies that aren't particularly near any enemy forces to just sit there and defend each other, well, how about you let me walk through your nation so I can attack someone on the other side? I PROMISE i'll give you back your territory when I'm done. Really I do.  ;)
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 10, 2004, 11:55:33 PM
Okay, the Spring 1902 map on the site has all the units added to it.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on November 11, 2004, 07:59:37 AM
updated version on my site too. (http://www.saintehlers.com/misc/Diplomacy/1902a+(Spring).jpg)
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 15, 2004, 12:23:06 PM
So we're about a day and a half (36-40 hours) from the deadline (Tuesday night -7/8 GMT.)  I've got orders from 4 players already.  Feel free to submit early if you'd like.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 16, 2004, 11:35:55 AM
For those of you that haven't submitted, orders should be in by tonight sometime.  I've got orders from all but 2 players.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 17, 2004, 12:18:25 PM
We're waiting on orders from 2 players.  Turkey has said he'd get them in by midday today.  I haven't heard from England (Archon) yet.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on November 17, 2004, 12:29:54 PM
hrm.

Y'know, for my input, we're enough into this, that it shouldn't take 8 or 9 days to get the orders in. Can we have a stricter deadline on the week, so the game doesn't drag on? You post plenty of reminders.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 17, 2004, 01:34:25 PM
My hard cutoff up to this point has been two days after deadline.  I'll bump it up to one day starting next round, and try and post/email more reminders.  I'm thinking if I get two consecutive no submits then civil disorder is declared for that country (basically, they're out of the game.)
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on November 17, 2004, 02:53:22 PM
"The first room has a gigantic turbonium dragon"

*nod* tough but fair
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 17, 2004, 03:57:05 PM
It's not so tough.  Others might think it fair to declare civil disorder after 1 no submit.  And for 2 of them to go by, it'd have to be 2.5 to 3 weeks without contact, and that's just way to much time to be away from the game and expect to still be playing.

btw, I got Turkey's orders.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on November 17, 2004, 04:01:25 PM
hey, I said fair. After all, I'm for, at this moment, denying a chance to give orders if they're not in by deadline. BTW, you should probably set a time if you're going to be strict in the future.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 17, 2004, 06:10:20 PM
that you used the word "fair" is not disputed.   :)

The way it works is I usually say "orders are due by Xday night -7/8 GMT."  I don't stay up waiting for them, but if it's not in by the following morning when I do check, it's not in by the dealine.  And I don't check before 8am -7/8 GMT.  So technically orders could come in on a morning after the dealine and I wouldn't know, but it's really no big deal as long as I have them.  A specific time (well, an hour window) would be midnight -7/8 GMT.  

I don't want to be so strict and say nothing after the deadline.  I like the cushion of an extra day, because if they can get orders in it's better to play with everyone submitting than to exclude someone.  I'd only exclude someone if I had to (i.e. they were holding up the game too much.)  Those are just my thoughts.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 18, 2004, 12:22:18 PM
If you see this Archon, I need orders today sometime.  If I don't get any I'm going to have to assume that you do nothing this turn.  I'm sending an email reminder also.

The deadline is midnight -7/8 GMT.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 18, 2004, 03:28:06 PM
In drawing up a preliminary map I noticed that I need some additional instruction from Turkey before we can move on.  Sorry I didn't think to get this sooner.

Anyways, since Turkey's the only one in the region that I need instructions from we can do this on the forum, as no one else can affect the results of what is chosen.

So here's your situation, Turkey: your army in Serbia has been forced out.  You have two options.
First, retreat to Trieste.  That's the only place you can retreat to.
Second, disband the army.

You can reply back on this thread with instructions.  I'll also write you an email which you can respond to, but I know you sometimes have trouble accessing email and whatnot, so that's why I'm conducting business here.  Also for visibility's sake.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on November 18, 2004, 03:54:36 PM
Darnit. I forgot about that possibility. I should have stuck with my first plan. I was trying to move things too fast.

Oh well, I'll get Trieste back before the troop strength matters.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 18, 2004, 10:47:38 PM
So Turkey's retreat orders are in.  If I get nothing from England tonight so be it.  We'll just move on.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 19, 2004, 11:31:58 AM
I got England's orders in nearly at the last minute.  So the new map is up on the site!  The orders are as follows (with unsuccessful orders struckthrough):

Austria
A Budapest - Serbia
A Bulgaria S A Budapest - Serbia
F Albania S F Ionian Sea - Greece
A Trieste - Tyrolia

England
F London - Yorkshire
F Yorkshire - Edinborough

France
F Brest - English Channel
A Paris - Picardy
A Marseilles - Burgundy
A Spain - Portugal

Germany
F Skagerrak - Denmark
A Denmark - Kiel
A Berlin S A Denmark - Kiel
A Holland - Ruhr

Italy
A Tyrolia - Piedmont
A Apulia - Greece
F Ionian Sea C A Apulia - Greece

Russia
A Finland - Norway
F Sweden S A Finland - Norway
A St. Petersburg - Finland
A Sevastopol - Armenia
F Black Sea S A Sevastopol - Armenia
A Rumania S A Bulgaria

Turkey
F Smyrna - Aegean Sea
F Ankara - Armenia
A Constantinople - Ankara

Retreat orders:

Turkey retreats A Serbia - Trieste
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 19, 2004, 11:46:36 AM
So new round of diplomacy!

Deadline: midnight -7/8 GMT Friday night, 26 November.
For all the Yanks: remember, it's Thanksgiving this coming week (Thursday) so plan to have your orders in on time!
For our friends worldwide: forgive me if I am ignorant of your holidays designed to express gratitude.  If such a holiday falls on this coming week, the above admonition also applies to you!


I am now allowing a 24 hour grace period after the deadline for you to get your orders in if you forgot or were extremely busy (it used to be 48.)  After that period no more orders; if you fail to submit you will be assumed to have done nothing that turn.  Two consecutive turns without submitting orders and your nation will be declared to be in "civil disorder," which basically means you're out of the game.  So that's the new policy.

This coming turn is a Fall turn!  That means the number of supply centers you control by the end of it is how many units you are able to field.  Remember also that I'll be soliciting a build/disband orders after this turn, so be thinking about that too.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 23, 2004, 11:27:57 AM
Just a friendly reminder that orders should be in within roughly 88 hours (4 days minus 8 hours.)

And feel free to submit early.  That would actually help me to start soliciting retreat orders when/if necessary.  And be thinking about where/what you want to build if you might be building something.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 24, 2004, 11:53:08 PM
Just another reminder...orders due in a little more than 48 hours from now (Friday midnight -7/8 GMT)
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Outkast in Exile on November 25, 2004, 08:31:31 PM
Kije;

Just a warning, I'm going to be away Sunday morning - Tuesday, (Australian time) and I won't have internet access.  If you have orders done before I leave, then I'll give you build/retreat orders etc. if not, you may have to wait.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 26, 2004, 01:34:29 PM
Gotcha.

I have orders from 4 nations already.  Deadline is in about 14 hours.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on November 26, 2004, 07:56:37 PM
well, Russia has 4 production centers, right? You could always just tell him now, stating what you want to do if you get various numbers of units to build.

Like, "If I get one new unit, I build a ... in ...; if i get two new units,..."

etc, though this does fail to take into account the moves made. I guess I'll just vote for giving you time.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on November 26, 2004, 08:11:51 PM
I can't find anything about it in the rules, so I need to ask.

Hypothetical situation: a unit tries to move into an unoccupied territory, but a standoff results as another unit from another territory is trying to move into the same territory.

One of these units is dislodged, and the only unoccupied territory is the one it already failed to move to.

is the unit disbanded? or can it move to that territory? I might have just missed it, but I can't see anything like this in the rules. To me, the fair thing seems to be that the unit is disbanded, but I'm not sure.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 27, 2004, 03:43:57 PM
Well, we're waiting on Turkey to see if he'll submit.  I should have orders posted and resolved tomorrow.

In answer to your question, SE:
On page 17 of the rules in the "Reatreat and Disbanding Phase" (I'm not citing this to flaunt that you couldn't find it, but so that you can read it for yourself and not have to take my word) it says "A unit cannot retreat to...a province that was left vacant by a standoff during the same turn."  So according to your scenario, the unit would be disbanded.

And in other news Archon, the King of England, has abdicated, throwing his nation in chaos and civil disorder.  In other words, Archon's left the game.

To summarize the rules concerning civil disorder: all existing units hold.  When dislodged they automatically disband.  No new units are built for the country.  If the country has to remove units, unti farthest from the country are removed first.  If all are equidistant, fleets are removed first, and those in alphabetical order by the province they are located in.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 27, 2004, 03:45:54 PM
Oh, and we'll deal with build orders when we get there.  All necessary time will be given.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 28, 2004, 03:10:14 PM
I must also announce that the sultan of Turkey has voluntarily stepped down from the throne, plunging his nation in civil disorder.

Order resolution and a new map will be posted today.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 28, 2004, 04:01:40 PM
5 players left!  Here's how Fall 1902 turned out...

Austria
F Albania - Trieste
A Serbia S F Albania - Trieste
A Tyrolia - Vienna
A Munich - Tyrolia

France
A Burgundy - Marseilles
A Picardy - London
F English Channel C A Picardy - London
A Portugal - Spain

Germany
A Berlin - Munich
A Kiel S A Berlin - Munich
A Ruhr S A Berlin - Munich

Italy
A Greece S A Bulgaria
F Ionian Sea - Tunis

Russia
A Rumania - Budapest
A Armenia - Ankara
F Black Sea S A Armenia - Ankara
F Sweden - Skagerrak
A Finland - Sweden

No retreat orders are necessary this turn.  Automatic disbands due to civil disorder include the Turkish units in Trieste and Ankara, and the English unit in Edinburgh.

The following nations are entitled to build:
France: 1 unit
Germany: 1 unit
Italy: 2 units
Russia: 3 units

The following nation must disband:
Austria: 1 unit

Remember that you can only build on one of your original spaces.  In the build orders please specify fleet or army and the province in which the unit will be built.

Examples: (England) Build fleet in Liverpool, (Turkey) build army in Smyrna.

Disband orders need only specify the province of the unit to be disbanded.  Please submit these build and disband orders ASAP.  As mentioned before we'll giv ethe necessary time to those who need it.

And, sorry - the map I posted is slightly different color-wise.  It's a long and convoluted story which I won't give here.  The map is posted on the site.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Outkast in Exile on November 28, 2004, 07:17:07 PM
Kije

(currently at an internet cafe) Shouldn't France be building two units? As I recall, I've gained two new supply centres since last time, in Portugal and London.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on November 28, 2004, 10:18:45 PM
Outkast, I'm not tracking how many gains, but you own 6 production centers, which means you should have 6 units. You control 5 now, which means one build.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 29, 2004, 11:19:55 AM
I apologize for the misunderstanding, but I have stated on multiple occasions that the number of units that a nation fields is equal to the number of supply centers it controls, and that to control a supply center a nation must be in possession of it by the end of a fall turn.  You were in possession of Portugal by the end of Spring 1902, but you moved it out during the Fall 1902 turn and so failed to gain control of it.  

I only granted one player an orders re-write so far, and that was because they obviously never grasped the rules to begin with (England for some reason still thought that the lines dividing sea zones were bridges that armies could move across, and that was Fall 1901.)  But in the case of forgetting rules I don't think it would be fair to grant an orders re-write.  Others have made mistakes due to forgetting or overlooking certain rules or facets of the game, and I haven't granted re-writes to them.

Such detailed explanation may come across as hostile, but it's not intended to be.  I'm just trying to explain my rationale.  When I saw your orders for the move out of Portugal it occurred to me that you might have forgotten something, and I wondered whether or not it would have been fair to mention this to you.  Ultimately I decided against saying anything as diplomacy had ended and I was in the capacity of moderator, in which I must be entirely impartial and rule-abiding, and the rules call for no further discussion between players during the order writing phase.  It also occurred to me that the move out of Portugal was possibly a conscious action on your part, in response to the Italian move into Piedmont.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Entsuropi on November 29, 2004, 06:06:18 PM
Quote
in response to the Italian move into Piedmont.


/me looks mysterious
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 29, 2004, 06:15:21 PM
So I'm waiting on builds for France and Russia.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Master Xaio on November 30, 2004, 05:35:51 AM
Ah, ok, I didn't get that.  My mistake.  Oh well. Orders have been sent.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 30, 2004, 11:48:33 AM
Sorry Jam, nothing showed up in my Hotmail inbox (which doesn't necessarily mean you didn't send them there.)  I have everyone else's builds so you can post yours to the forum here.  Or try my hotmail again.  (n8hatfield at hot.....)
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on November 30, 2004, 03:49:07 PM
And I apologize for the delay, all.  It seems that internet dysfunction and the fact that Australia and the US are on opposite sides of the world are to blame  :).  I'll get things up as soon as I am able, and with a properly-colored map too.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on December 01, 2004, 11:22:50 AM
Map will be updated tonight.

List of all builds/disbands:

France: builds army in Paris
Germany: builds army in Berlin
Italy: builds fleet in Rome and fleet in Naples
Russia: builds army in St. Petersburg, army in Warsaw, and army in Moscow

Austria: disbands fleet in Trieste

So a new round of diplomacy begins!  Unless there are objections, Spring 1903 diplomacy will end Tuesday night (midnight -7/8 GMT).  
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on December 02, 2004, 11:44:01 AM
I did put the map up on the site last night.  Correct color and current with all units on the board now.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on December 02, 2004, 12:18:26 PM
It's on my site too.Easy linkage (http://www.saintehlers.com/misc/Diplomacy/1903a+(Spring)%5B1%5D.jpeg)
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on December 06, 2004, 11:48:43 AM
About two days until orders are due (Tuesday midnight -7/8 GMT.)  I have orders for 2 nations already.

And remember, England and Turkey are out - they won't be submitting orders.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Gemm: Rock & Roll Star; Born to Rock on December 06, 2004, 12:21:10 PM
Here's a question for ya. Can you have events that happen in that year in those countries happen in the game too? Is that an option one could use?
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on December 06, 2004, 01:44:34 PM
I'm sure you could make a variant of the rules to depict certain events.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on December 07, 2004, 11:50:44 AM
I've got orders from all but one nation.  Deadline's tonight.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on December 07, 2004, 11:55:26 AM
yeah, that'd be me. I'll send 'em when I get home.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on December 07, 2004, 02:38:44 PM
Cool - we're on track to have everything by the deadline.  For the first time ever!  Thanks everyone for being on top of things.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on December 07, 2004, 08:55:35 PM
Okay, I've got all the orders in and here they are...

Austria
A Bulgaria - Constantinople
A Vienna - Bohemia
A Tyrolia S A Vienna - Bohemia
A Serbia - Budapest

France
A Spain - Portugal
F English Channel - North Sea
A Paris - Picardy

Germany
F Denmark - Baltic Sea
A Kiel - Denmark
A Ruhr - Kiel

Italy
F Rome - Tuscany
F Naples - Tyrrenian Sea
F Tunis - Western Mediterranean

Russia
A Ankara - Smyrna
F Black Sea S A Bulgaria - Constantinople
A Norway Denmark
F Skagerrak C A Norway - Denmark
A Sweden S A Norway - Denmark
A St. Petersburg - Finland
A Moscow - Livonia
A Budapest - Galicia
A Warsaw - Prussia

Turkish army in Constantinople disbands.

A new map is posted on the site.  No retreats are necessary, so new round of diplomacy.  Deadline next Tuesday night at midnight -7/8 GMT.  Or earlier if we get all the orders in.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Entsuropi on December 07, 2004, 09:11:56 PM
Holy moly thats a lot of russian units.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Gemm: Rock & Roll Star; Born to Rock on December 07, 2004, 11:01:55 PM
yeah, that is readily awesome might that you are exuberating upon everyone JP. Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on December 08, 2004, 01:27:24 AM
Yeah, well, look who's enabling him.  He's picking up another unit in the Fall if nothing changes.

I gambled this turn, and lost.  Oh well.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on December 08, 2004, 09:22:32 AM
who's enabling him?
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on December 08, 2004, 11:31:42 AM
Guilty as charged.  Me and Jam worked out this deal where if I gave him Denmark he'd let me march into Warsaw next Fall.  You want to back me up on this, JP?
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on December 08, 2004, 12:35:49 PM
/me giggles.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on December 08, 2004, 01:26:02 PM
Well, it looks like Germany's next on the hit list.  The question is, who do I want to facilitate?
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on December 08, 2004, 01:33:26 PM
The man with your life in his hands!
I'm not entirely sure who that is. Mostly likely you want to facillitate Italy, since, y'know, he can't hurt you.

Since you can't do that. I nominate myself.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on December 13, 2004, 11:50:09 AM
So deadline's in about 40 hours.  Just an FYI
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on December 14, 2004, 11:35:20 AM
Orders due in about 16 or so hours.  I've got orders for 2 players already, 3 to go.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on December 15, 2004, 11:13:42 AM
Past deadline...I have orders for 2 players.  I hadn't been overly concerned because everyone still in the game up to this point has been very good about submitting on time.  I'll send an email reminder to all.

If I don't get orders for players by midnight -7/8 GMT tonight, I'll have to assume that those players do nothing.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on December 15, 2004, 11:41:56 AM
dang, I'm a total flake! You'll have my orders in 7 hours.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on December 15, 2004, 12:00:41 PM
Muy Bien - I've got orders for Italy now, and a commitment from Austria.  Just waiting on Russia, and he's on the other side of the world.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on December 15, 2004, 12:06:43 PM
He'll be awake by the time I submit my orders. Hopefully he'll get online soon and see this.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on December 15, 2004, 01:09:29 PM
Yeah - with the time difference in mind I'm of a mind to be lenient.  I didn't send out email reminders until after the deadline, which are apparently more effective than forum reminders.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on December 16, 2004, 09:48:31 AM
did you at least send in orders by now?

ANyway, I'm away from internet after about 5 more hours. SO I will be unable to post build/disband orders until monday.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on December 16, 2004, 11:16:52 AM
So I have everyone's orders and will post results today, map tonight.  I'm driving to Seattle right after work tomorrow (in Utah right now) and will be there for 10 days.  I will have internet so the game will proceed.  You'll have all weekend to think of build/disband orders - we'll make them due Sunday night some time so everything's ready when SE sends his in.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on December 16, 2004, 11:49:32 AM
actually, if I know what's happening before I leave, I'm sure I can get them in really fast. It doesn't take me long at all to decide on builds. Get the info to me before 11am your time, and I'll send it from my work account before I go to catch my plane. That way we can move a little faster.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on December 16, 2004, 12:24:23 PM
Results...

Austria
A Tyrolia S A Bohemia
A Bohemia S A Galicia - Silesia

France
A Portugal - Spain
A Marseilles S A Portugal - Spain
A London - Holland
F North Sea C A London - Holland
A Picardy - Burgundy
A Belgium S A London - Holland

Germany
A Ruhr S A Munich
A Berlin - Silesia
F Baltic Sea - Gulf of Bothnia

Italy
F Western Mediterranean - Middle Atlantic
F Tyrrenian Sea - Western Mediterranean
F Tuscany - Gulf of Lyon

Russia
A Galicia - Silesia
F Black Sea - Ankara
A Prussia - Berlin
A Livonia - St. Petersburg
F Skagerrak S A Denmark

Turkish Fleet automatically disbands and Turkey has ceased to exist as a power.

Builds
Austria: 2
France: 1
Russia: 1

Disbands
Germany: 2

I'll have the map up tonight.  Remember: you can only build units on you original home supply centers.  Your orders need to specify location of build and fleet or army.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on December 16, 2004, 01:47:04 PM
My build orders have been sent. any deadline works for me, so don't hold up the game just so I can start diplomacy round at the same time as everyone.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on December 16, 2004, 03:26:28 PM
So let's say midnight Friday night -7/8 GMT for a deadline on build orders.  I'll send an email reminder.  That'll give about 24 hours since the map's posted for people to get build orders in.  

And of course the sooner the better.
I've got Austria's; now I just need Russia and France's.  Germany's disband is in also.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on December 16, 2004, 09:05:56 PM
Map's up.  And I got France's orders, so it's really just Russia we need still.  Should you care to change your order after seeing the map just resend ASAP.  Thanks guys!
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on December 17, 2004, 11:16:13 AM
I have all the build/disband orders now.  The map's not going to be up until some time tomorrow as I will be hopping in a car right after work and driving to Seattle (about 14 hours or so, depending on the weather.)  I'll post the orders here though:

Austria
Build army in Vienna
Build army in Trieste

France
Build army in Paris

Germany
Disband army in Ruhr
Disband fleet in Gulf of Bothnia

Russia
Build army in Moscow

So new round of diplomacy...we'll make the deadline for Spring 1904 orders midnight Thursday (12/23, or 23/12 for the Aussies and Scots) -7/8 GMT.  Just so we can finish up the diplomacy before Christmas Eve and Christmas, during which some or all might not be paying too much attention to the game.  I'll try and have the new map up as soon as possible, but it probably won't be until tomorrow sometime.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on December 20, 2004, 02:55:21 PM
New map's up.  It was actually up last Saturday, but I didn;t tell anyone.  This rounds' diplomacy deadline is midnight Thursday -7/8 GMT, unless we decide we want it later.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Master Xaio on December 22, 2004, 07:06:41 PM
Orders are in.  

Merry Christmas everyone, btw.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on December 23, 2004, 09:04:20 AM
I sent in my orders this morning. I will be out of town till Tuesday though, so I would like to have an extention of the deadline for the fall turn at least until Saturday night, if that's cool with everyone.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on December 25, 2004, 06:27:25 PM
Okay, so I've been really lazythis week being on vacation in Seattle and haven't paid any attention to the game until now, and it's minimal time that I have now.  So I might not get everything for spring '04 until wednesday.  Sorry, I was being idealistic when I said I could keep up with the game and be on vacation at the same time.  Still waiting for Russia's orders too.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on December 29, 2004, 11:25:12 AM
Okay, I'm back and ready to resume.  I apologize.

Anyways, it turns out that I still need Italy's orders also, which thing I hadn't noticed earlier.

My new goal is to get this turn all wrapped up by the time the holidays are over.  That entails getting Italy's orders, resolving orders, getting retreat orders (if necessary,) and posting a new map.  
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on December 29, 2004, 03:26:10 PM
I have also sent emails to both Russia and Austria for orders clarifications.  Please let me know if you did not get them.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on December 30, 2004, 11:07:37 AM
Okay, I've heard back from Russia and Italy.  Just one more clarification and I should be ready to go.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on December 30, 2004, 01:15:52 PM
sorry, that was probably from me. I didn't check my email. Send it to me at work and I'll respond asap
e h l e r s e A T h u n t e r l a b D O T c o m
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on December 30, 2004, 01:26:58 PM
sent
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on December 30, 2004, 03:29:27 PM
responded!
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on December 30, 2004, 06:58:07 PM
Spring 1904 results:

Austria
A Trieste - Venice
A Tyrolia - Munich
A Bohemia S A Tyrolia - Munich
A Vienna - Tyrolia
A Constantinople - Bulgaria
A Budapest - Galicia

France
A Bel - Ruhr
A Holland S A Bel - Ruhr
A Bur S A Tyrolia - Munich
A Marseilles S A Spain
A Spain S A Marseilles
A Paris - Brest
F North Sea - Edi

Germany
A Berlin S A Munich
A Kiel S A Munich
A Munich S A Berlin

Italy
F WMe - Spain
F Lyo S F WMe - Spain
F MAt - Por

Russia
A Moscow - Warsaw
A St. Pretersburg - Norway
A Sweden S A St Petersburg - Norway
A Prussia - Berlin
A Silesia S A Prussia - Berlin
A Denmark S A Prussia - Berlin  Failed because Denmark does not border on Berlin.  I'd have clarified with you but it didn't really affect other orders.

Armies in Berlin and Munich both retreat.  With no possible place to retreat, they are disbanded.

I'm going to give through the holiday weekend to get things going again.  We'll say midnight Monday night (-7/8 GMT) January 10th for deadline for Fall '04 orders.  Feel free to connive away in the meantime!

Map tomorrow, hopefully.






Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Entsuropi on January 01, 2005, 05:58:27 AM
I don't think this game is very realistic. France hasn't run away yet >:(
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Master Xaio on January 01, 2005, 06:23:45 AM
Yeah, well, Italy hasn't changed sides 10 times and surrendered at the first sign of trouble yet, so hey...  :)

Anyway, what is there to run away from?
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Entsuropi on January 01, 2005, 07:38:39 AM
Quote
Yeah, well, Italy hasn't changed sides 10 times


I haven't? Damnit! I'm not playing diplomancy right, am i? :P
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Gemm: Rock & Roll Star; Born to Rock on January 01, 2005, 10:44:54 AM
You guys are about 100 years ahead of your time or so. Give or take a couple of decades. =P
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Entsuropi on January 01, 2005, 01:19:28 PM
Who, What, When, Where, Why?
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on January 01, 2005, 05:17:54 PM
Map's up now.  Sorry for the wait.

New round of diplomacy, ending a week from Monday.  Have at it!
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Master Xaio on January 01, 2005, 11:29:54 PM
Yeah, I know, you've only done it once or twice, whats wrong with you Entropy?

You also haven't changed the language you should be learning, nor had a guy with a bad moustache for a dictator, so hey....

Unless you have a moustache?  ;D
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on January 06, 2005, 11:28:12 AM
We're about halfway through this round of diplomacy.  If you've already decided what you want to do feel free to submit orders early.  It makes it easier if I have to clarify something.  But otherwise midnight Monday night -7/8 GMT.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on January 07, 2005, 03:41:00 PM
I have orders for three players so far.  Dealine's not for another 80 or so hours.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on January 07, 2005, 04:05:04 PM
Who are the other two players? I'll smack them so we can move on to the next turn
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on January 07, 2005, 04:34:50 PM
As long as the round is still going, they have to be anonymous.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on January 07, 2005, 05:04:21 PM
Then I'll just have to kill all of you.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on January 10, 2005, 11:22:59 AM
about 16 hours to deadline
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on January 10, 2005, 11:27:31 AM
The ninja monkeys are on the way to make sure you've sent in orders.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on January 11, 2005, 11:18:53 AM
All orders are in and I'm am working as we speak to resolve them.  Well, not as we speak...technically it would have to be "shortly after I finish writing this."  All of it has the implication that it will be done soon, though.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on January 11, 2005, 11:27:23 AM
/me eagerly awaits the results of his plotting.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on January 11, 2005, 11:56:59 AM
Here are the results:

Austria
A Munich - Ruhr
A Ven - Tus
A Boh - Munich
A Tyrolia S A Boh - Munich
A Galicia - Bohemia
A Bulgaria - Serbia

France
A Ruhr - Kiel
A Holland S A Ruhr - Kiel
A Marseilles S A Spain
A Spain S A Marseilles
A Brest - Gasc
A Bur S A Marseilles

Germany
A Kiel S A Berlin - Munich

Italy
F West Med - Spain
F Por S F West Med - Spain
F Lyon S F West Med - Spain

Russia
F Ska - North Sea
A Den S A Sweden
A Silesia S A Boh - Munich
A Warsaw - Prussia  
A Sweden S A Den  
A Finland S A Norway

Retreats
French Army in Spain must retreat.  As there is nowhere for it to go, it automatically disbands.
Germany army in Kiel must retreat.  As there is nowhere for it to go it automatically disbands.  Germany is eliminated.

Builds (in parentheses are the places where that power may build)
Austria: 1 (Trieste, Budapest, Vienna)
France: 2 (Paris, Brest)
Italy: 2 (Venice, Rome, Naples)
Russia: 1 (St. Petersburg, Warsaw, Moscow, Sevastopol)

Please submit build orders as soon as possible.  Remember to specify where and what (fleet or army.)
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on January 11, 2005, 12:02:02 PM
Oh, and new map will be up as soon as I can get it up.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on January 11, 2005, 12:02:42 PM
All is going according to my plan.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on January 12, 2005, 11:32:33 AM
I have build orders for two players, am waiting clarification on another, and have yet to receive anything for the fourth.  

We've lost our internet connection at home, and so the only time online I have is at my work, my wife's work, or my wife's school.  Which is plenty, except that for some reason my work computer won't save jpegs and the like.  So putting the map on the web is a little more difficult now.  I'm thinking I'll just put a new map up when I have all the build orders.  You can read from the orders results and the old map to see what the situation is now when looking to build.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Entsuropi on January 12, 2005, 01:12:56 PM
Italy build orders - Army in rome, army in venice.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on January 12, 2005, 02:08:15 PM
Thanks - just waiting on a clarification now.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on January 12, 2005, 03:11:59 PM
if the clarification is to me, post it here and I'll get it to you asap. Otherwise, tell me where to dispatch mroe ninja monkeys
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on January 12, 2005, 03:59:17 PM
Not to you, or you would have known.  And not because it's absolutely necessary, but just in keeping with confidentiality until all is revealed, you'll have to do your own detective work to track down whom to send those simian freaks to.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on January 12, 2005, 04:38:18 PM
not really. I cna't check that email account from work.

*shakes his fist at Kije*

Curse you fair moderator!
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on January 13, 2005, 11:58:18 AM
Build orders are all in:

Austria builds fleet in Trieste

France builds armies in Brest and Paris

Italy builds armies in Venice and Rome

Russia builds fleet in St. Petersburg (north coast)

It might be helpful for those involved to brush up on the rules about bi-coastal provinces (St. Petersburg, Spain, Bulgaria.)  You can find the info in the Notes on Geography file on the Yahoo site or the Notes on Geography post on the Diplomacy Reference Files thread here on the forum.  

I will get a new map posted when I can (Saturday at the latest.)

So new round of diplomacy: round ends midnight next Thursday (Jan. 20) night -7/8 GMT.  
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on January 13, 2005, 12:39:21 PM
Eric needs a map to properly visualize this.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on January 13, 2005, 12:58:08 PM
I apologize for the inconvenience.  I can email you the powerpoint file that I use to make changes to the map if you'd like.  

Then if you were feeling saucy, you could convert the latest slide to jpeg and post it on the site.  I'm not asking you to do this, but feel free.  If you don't I'll just post it when I can.

So would you like me to send you the file?  And if so, to what address?
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on January 13, 2005, 01:31:32 PM
I'll muck with the source image when I get home.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on January 14, 2005, 03:20:16 PM
I have completed, in a very short space, a crude, but usable map (http://www.saintehlers.com/misc/Diplomacy/1905%20(Spring).jpg). FYI, that Russian Fleet in the north is in St Petersburg, not the sea.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on January 14, 2005, 03:52:44 PM
Well thankee Saint.  The only correction to that map stems from my failure to mention that the English fleet in Yorkshire disbands as a result of England having lost Edinburg.  I'm thinking my map will be up tonight, so no need to correct yours unless you really really want to muck some more.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on January 14, 2005, 04:22:00 PM
nah, I'll leave it. everyone just remember. Kije's will look prettier.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on January 15, 2005, 10:50:52 PM
Map's up on the site.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on January 18, 2005, 04:06:17 PM
roughly 60 hours 'til Spring 1905 deadline.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on January 19, 2005, 11:18:16 AM
Deadline is in about 40 hours.  I sent an email reminder to all.

I have orders for one player already.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on January 19, 2005, 12:14:24 PM
Make that: "I have orders for two players already."
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on January 20, 2005, 11:16:19 AM
16 hours until deadline...I am lacking just one set of orders.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on January 20, 2005, 11:22:00 AM
The ninja monkeys are already tracking you down.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Master Xaio on January 20, 2005, 08:55:32 PM
Soz, was at the Gold Coast, no internet.  Ninja Monkeys are probably still down at the beach cavorting with--- actually, lets not go down that path. *innocent whistle*
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on January 21, 2005, 11:18:12 AM
I got all orders on time - "no worries"  (Ha!  I feel like such a poser saying that to two Australians)
:)

I'm working on the resolution now, will have it posted soon, and a map by tomorrow am.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on January 21, 2005, 11:26:22 AM
and then I will crush my enemies!
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on January 21, 2005, 11:50:01 AM
Okay, here they are:

Austria

A Ruhr - Belgium
A Munich - Kiel
A Tyrolia - Munich
A Bohemia S A Tyrolia - Munich
F Trieste - Adriatic Sea
A Serbia - Albania


France

A Burgundy S A Marseilles
A Gascony S A Marseilles
A Brest S A Gascony
A Kiel S A Holland
A Holland S A Kiel
A Paris - Picardy


Italy

A Piedmont - Marseilles
F Gulf of Lyon S A Piedmont - Marseilles
F Spain S A Piedmost - Marseilles
F Portugal - Mid Atlantic


Russia

F Ankara - Black Sea
A Norway - London
F North Sea C A Norway - London
F St Petersburg - Barents
A Finland - Norway
A Denmark S A Munich - Kiel
A Berlin S A Munich - Kiel
A Silesia S A Tyrolia - Munich

Notes:
Kiel falls to Munich (2 defending vs. 3 attacking)
Marseilles holds (3 defending vs. 3 sttacking)

I need a retreat order.  I have contacted involved party and if I can get the order before tomorrow am I'll have the map up on schedule.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on January 21, 2005, 03:07:45 PM
Oh  come on. We all know that France retreats from Kiel to Ruhr. He has no reason to kill the unit yet when he can use it next round with no penalties.

or am I not allowed to say that out loud?
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on January 21, 2005, 03:49:59 PM
I suppose you're allowed to say whatever you want...I do try and keep things official.  I suppose if he doesn;t reply by the the time I have the map ready to go up, I'll post the map as if he were retreating to Ruhr.  If he decides to disband, I'll cahnge the map and notify everyone.

New round of diplomacy: midnight next Thursday night (-7/8 Jan. 27th GMT) is th enew deadline, unless you agree to shorten or extend it.

And it's Fall turn, so we'll be reconciling unit totals to supply centers.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on January 21, 2005, 07:15:20 PM
I got the order: the army is indeed retreating the the Ruhr.  New map (tomorrow) will reflect this.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on January 22, 2005, 03:40:07 PM
Map's up laddies!
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Master Xaio on January 23, 2005, 05:33:40 AM
I wonder who might be next on the list for getting kerschmackered?
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on January 23, 2005, 10:41:58 AM
I suspect that Japan is next. Hrm.... Wait... they're not in the game. Well, guess we'll have to choose someone else.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on January 25, 2005, 06:58:04 PM
Deadline in about 32 hours.  I'll send email reminders tomorrow am.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on January 26, 2005, 09:23:39 AM
this is the most complicated turn yet, and I started class yesterday. Would everyone agree to a 24 hour extension to the deadline?
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on January 26, 2005, 11:16:14 AM
I think that's fine.  If someone disagrees, they need to give a convincing argument.  Until then, deadline is midnight Friday night -7/8 GMT, which is in about 64 hours.

Sorry, I don't know what I was thinking in that last post.  I guess I thought yesterday was Wednesday on my side of the globe.  (Wishful thinking.)  So deadline's in 2.5 days, unless that's too short/long for some people.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on January 27, 2005, 06:48:40 PM
about 32 hours 'til deadline
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on January 28, 2005, 11:17:38 AM
I've got orders for two players already.  Deadline is in anout 16 hours.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on January 28, 2005, 11:19:01 AM
do you expect to be able to tell us what build/disbands we have by tomorrow morning then? Or will it take you some time to figure it out?
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on January 28, 2005, 11:27:32 AM
If I get all the orders in I think I'll be able to send emails out.  I'll use the computers at my wife's work.  But it wouldn't be until noon or after your time, SE.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on January 28, 2005, 11:36:11 AM
k, I should be able to get my orders in tomorrow night or sunday morning.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on January 29, 2005, 02:04:03 PM
I'm still waiting on Italy and France...I'm sending out reminder emails shortly.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on January 31, 2005, 11:44:58 AM
Okay, I have Italy but no France yet.  What do you guys say?  Should France default, or should we pester and get orders from him?
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on January 31, 2005, 12:01:22 PM
well, i needed leniancy myself this turn, but he's already almost 3 days late with the extended deadline. I think that he should have till the end of today (which gives him 4 days past the original deadline) to get them in. Then, we stomp him.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on January 31, 2005, 02:31:40 PM
I've sent a final reminder then.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on February 01, 2005, 09:11:00 AM
soooo..... we getting those results soon?
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on February 01, 2005, 01:46:20 PM
Sorry - work's busy.

Aparently France did send them earlier; I just didn't receive them.  So I got them resent this morning and will try to get resolutions and a new map up today.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on February 01, 2005, 04:09:57 PM
Austria
F Adriadic - Ionian
A Kiel - Holland
A Belgium S A Kiel - Holland
A Munich - Kiel
A Bohemia - Munich
A Tuscany S A Piedmont

France
A Ruhr - Belgium
A Holland S A Ruhr - Belgium
A Burgundy S A Marseilles
A Marseilles S A Gascony
A Gascony S A Marseliles
A Brest S A Gascony
A Picardy S A Ruhr - Belgium

Italy
A Piedmont - Marseilles
F Lyon S A Piedmont - Marseilles
F Spain S A Piedmont - Marseilles
A Mid Atlantic - Brest
A Venice - Piedmont

Russia
F Barents Sea - Norwegian Sea
A London - York
F North Sea S A Kiel - Holland
A Denmark S A Munich - Kiel
A Berlin S A Munich - Kiel
A Silesia S A Bohemia - Munich

No retreat orders are necessary this round.  The French army in Holland and the Austrian army in Belgium were forced to retreat, and as there was nowhere to retreat to they were both disbanded.
Russia failed to take possession of London as it moved out of London and therefore was not in possession at the end of a Fall turn.

Note: it occurs to me that Russia and Austria may have intended to cooperate in Austria's retreat from Belgium, using the fleet in the North Sea to convoy it to London.  If this was the case, it wouldn't be allowed.  The rules state that units needing retreat orders are to write those orders down.  It implies that units not needing retreats do not submit retreat orders.  A convoy order requires two orders to be submitted: the army to be convoyed and the fleet doing the convoying.  As the fleet doing the convoying would not be retreating, it could not submit an order during the retreat orders phase, and any retreating army could not be convoyed to safety.  Hence, the Austrian army in Belgium disbands.

Now that I'm reviewing the rules again I also notice that they state: "A dislodged unit must retreat to an adjacent province..."  London is not adjacent to Belgium.  This latter argument is a little more clear.  In any case, both arguments stand.


Builds
Austria: 3

Disbands
France: 1

Austria and France: please submit your build/disband orders as soon as possible.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on February 01, 2005, 04:37:12 PM
map's up on the site
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on February 01, 2005, 08:56:04 PM
I'm not near email. I build a fleet in Trieste (the coastal one) and an army in each of my other home terrorities (Vienna... and that other one). I hope that's clear enough.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on February 01, 2005, 10:13:42 PM
Yes, 'tis
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Entsuropi on February 01, 2005, 10:36:43 PM
I find Saints comment to be obtuse, confusing and dense, and I demand monetary compensation for my mental anguish and loss of earnings resulting from this confusion.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on February 02, 2005, 09:01:34 AM
the burden of having expectations is certain disappointment
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on February 03, 2005, 11:57:20 PM
Well, France's last comments (in an email sent to me) sounded like he was leaning towards opting out of the game.  I mildly cajoled, but to no effect yet, and I figure I'll give him one more day to decide.  If I hear nothing (or if I hear a definite withdrawal) France will go into civil disorder and I will disband a unit according to the applicable rules.  We will then continue with Spring '06.  It's '06, right?
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on February 04, 2005, 09:36:11 AM
yes'm . Sir. I mean sir. I was about to prod a question about what was going on.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on February 04, 2005, 11:06:31 AM
I heard from France and he's out...

So I'll get the map up soon, and we can start a new round of diplomacy with a deadline of midnight Thursday night -7/8 GMT.  Of course, if I get orders in beforehand we can finish sooner.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on February 04, 2005, 08:12:48 PM
The powers of Italy, Russia, and Austria have agreed that there is no need for further conflict.

ie, we have mutually agreed to end the game.

What is the lesson you learn from all of this? If you are loyal and trustworthy as a team, you will win.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on February 05, 2005, 09:14:26 PM
If you call that winning.  I call it a cop out.  As the rules say, if all players agree to a draw then all share equally in a victory, but I still am less than impressed.  In any case, that means game's over!

Thank you for playing everyone.  I hope it was a pleasant experience.  If you're interested the map as it stands at the end of the game is up on the site (Spring06.jpg)  

Thanks again, all!
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on February 05, 2005, 10:23:48 PM
cop out nothing. You're just mad because we destroyed you second and you never believed that we were all working together in perfect trust, coordinating all our moves. I must say it made just about every turn really easy to move.

We used the rules to our advantage. That's all.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Entsuropi on February 06, 2005, 09:16:58 PM
It wasn't the most interesting game ever though :)

Real history is fun because of all the twisty turny alliance silliness.

On that note, I think me and JP should work on a varient of diplomancy named 'Illuminati - secret wars'.
Title: Re: Diplomacy, anyone?
Post by: Entsuropi on February 07, 2005, 09:14:41 PM
Quickly, to the secret cave with the big table with underlit maps!

As in... lets make a topic and ruminate.