Timewaster's Guide Archive
Local Authors => Brandon Sanderson => Topic started by: Lanternpost on November 15, 2005, 12:20:42 AM
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I've conflicting statements in certain writer's journals which I understand is not commonplace, but one bugs me in particular. According to one article in Writer's Digest, a writer should try to sell his story when while he is involved in the process of writing the manuscript. Another article months later (undoubtedly by a different author) claimed that the manuscript should be completed. Anybody have any ideas concerning that? Because if the first is true, I can send out my first couple chapters now which would be so much more convient. Of course that's as long as they're willing to throw a contract at me.
Also, in Orson Scott Card's How to Write Science Fiction and Fantasy, he states in Chapter 5, The Life and Business of Writing, 3. Agents,
"For your first novel, you don't need an agent until you've got a contract offer from a publisher.
{ . . . } Once you have that contract in hand, you can send it to the agent you want to have representing you . . ."
However, isn't it true that most publishers don't consider ANYTHING unless approached by an agent?
He also says not to hire an agent for any more than ten percent of your earnings. I agree and understand, of course, but it seems that there are very few of those.
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Lanternpost,
Whew! A couple of different questions to answer here. First, finish the manuscript or not: I say wait until you're finished. From what I've heard from editors, the split is about 80/20, with 80 percent of the ones I've talked to saying that an unfinished manuscript from a new author is an immediate rejection.
If you send off the first few chapters, most editors--and most agents--are going to want to see the entire novel, assuming they like what they see.
Do you need an agent:
I got an offer on ELANTRIS, then went to an agent, just like Scott Card suggests. However, Eldon Thompson (who also just got a big hardback deal with the first book coming out this summer) said that he got an agent first, then went to publishers.
Right now, about half of the publishers in sf/f will look at unagented submissions. (Tor, Daw, and Ace among them.) Half won't. (Dell, Harper, and Bantam being among them, I believe.)
My suggestion is to try both--seek an agent and a publisher at the same time. There are a few agents who don't like finding out an author has already been marketing a book, but the 80/20 seems to fall down on the side of them not caring on this one.
Finally, 10% or more? When Scott wrote that book, ten was the standard. It's gone up to fifteen. I don't know of any major agencies that don't start at fifteen for new authors. That isn't to say you can't get one for ten, but I don't think is as hard-fast a rule as it used to be.
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On the question of whether to finish a manuscript: finish it. Even if all the publisher asks for is the first three chapters as a writing sample (which we do), the manuscript must be ready to send if requested. Not to mention it really shows your professionalism if you've finished a book, or three or four--it shows that you can write a book, and aren't just interested in short fiction, for example, and shows that you know how to finish what you've started.
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For novels, just finish the darn thing. THere are too many people out there who can't finish a story.
Nonfiction, however, most publishers only need a chapter and an outline for a proposal. Then they talk to you about deadlines and stuff.
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Good point, E--yes, I've often heard that nonfiction editors don't need a whole manuscript. That seems to be the big exception.
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That's true, and it's for a very good reason--nonfiction is highly specialized and requires a lot of research. No one wants to do a year's worth of research and writing, only to be told that no publisher will want the book. It's best to do preliminary research, propose the book, get a contract, and then do your in-depth research. And then you can use your advance to pay for the research. :)
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Thanks for comments, everybody. Your answers have been swift and relentless.
I was wondering about something else, too.
The other day, while I was browsing the Harper Collins website, a little window appeared on my computer screen. I thought it was just another stupid advertisement but it wasn't; it was a survey concerning the site and new features the company was considering to make available, some of which were for a small fee.
There were eight new features supposedly and a ninth box in which you could include suggestions. Only three of the options were pivital in my mind, however. The first is, that they would sell the books that they publish from their own site. (I always felt this was inevitable; they should have been doing it much sooner.) The second feature would be available for authors to communicate more efficiently with their editors or members of management. The final and the best of all: assisting the author with publication.
My theory: they are searching for new talent.
Now I could be thinking too deeply here, but these are the ideas that these features imply to me. 1. By selling their own books on their website, they are maximizing income. They no longer have to sell it to Amazon at 45% of the cover price so that's an additional 15% in their coffers. (Common sense, eh?) This would result in two perks for the author: first the author might receive a bigger bonus and second, its a sure thing that they publisher would be more likely to publish quality authors that would have, at one time, been considered a risk. Whether they do or not, of course, is their own perogative.
So does anyone else have another explanation?
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At TOKYOPOP our store at our site is actually run by...our distributor, CDS, so the earnings increase is only like 10%, if anything. We don't have time to run a store ourselves, even if it is just from web orders.
Anyway about all the questions that everyone already answered...Brandon wasn't quite complete in his answer about the agent, because he had been sending various things to his agent for like what...a year already?...that Joshua was thinking were almost good enough to try selling to publishers. The one that Moshe bit on just happened to be one that Brandon hadn't sent to Joshua to look at. But that is what happens when you have 13 books already written.
Definitely finish the book. And only write first novels, no sequels. Once you sell one book, you can contract for a sequel, but no one buys just the second novel in a series, so to maximize your selling potential, keep writing first novels or standalones.
Once you are an established writer then it's fairly common to contract for a book before you've written any of it; this is done by querying or talking up your editor at a bar. But this is impossible until you've got a few books under your belt, or sign a two/three-book contract when the editor's already read your completed first book manuscript.
Writing a book without a contract beforehand is called writing "on spec"; some established writers find that they write with much less stress and much more freedom if they write books on spec instead of under contract; but it's a gamble, so when you're starting out, you usually want to get contracts, because that means you're paid part of it up front and you have something to live on while you're writing it.
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According to what I've been told, it is also important to note that publishing houses can have different approaches to purchasing novels based on genre.
From what I've seen and heard, it is generally easier to make a career as a genre writer than as a "literary" writer. SciFi/Horror/Mystery/Romance writers tend to carry more name recognition in their own genre, with readers who will purchase their books on name alone. Once that name recognition is established, they will publish just about anything that author writes.
Publishers of supposed "literary" works don't seem to be as interested in purchasing series or carrying any particular author as their flagship author. They appear to be more interested in publishing one really good book from an author (with the right credentials) and maybe a follow-up book. Once they've gotten critical praise and maybe a few awards, they just let the author disappear.
So a lot of places are looking for new talent. That doesn't necessarily mean that they are looking to help you make a career out of writing. A lot of places aren't looking for talent as much as product.
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You're right, Ookla, because of warehousing which I didn't think of till now.
I don't know if I would write a sequel, though, not unless its a projected cycle. I would have to have a lot of very good ideas for it. I just don't like continually doing the same thing, especially since I like a little of everything.
42, "literary" is properly stated. The word used to mean quality. That was when H. G. Wells, Mervyn Peake and Edgar Allen Poe bore the same title as Charles Dickens and William Makepeace Thackery.
Today the Harold Bloom's and other self-proclaimed "scholars" of the word wield it with snobbery. It has to be set in the "real world" so they will appreciate it. Then they will accept it even if its stories about a person working at an old folk's home.
That is why we now have to use quotation marks with that once very respectable word.
Sorry. Had to vent a little.
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That's just a fraction of what's been discussed on this forum already in the past. ;) You'll find that most of us are of a like mind.
Anyway shouldn't this thread be moved into the Writing Group section?
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probably
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How long, does it take for a book to see print after an agent agrees to represent the author, hypothosizing, of course, that the agent would be able to strike a deal?
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Well I don't know averages, but Elantris was about a year from the time the contract with TOR was signed.
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A lor depends on scheduling and logistic matters. Publishers can only afford to publish so many books per year, and they don't want to publish them all at once. That would be the biggest factor from what I've heard. Fiction tends goes rather quickly (several months to a year or two). In non-fiction I've heard of/met people where it has take several years. Course, often nonfiction is contracted before it has been completely written.
Also, there are production and legal issues that can bog things down from time to time.
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ELANTRIS was actually about 18 months from signing, 26 months from the day that I got the call saying that they wanted to buy the book. Negotiations with the agent went from about April-November. It was published in May of not the next year, but the year after that.
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Listening to the podcast "The Secret" by NYT bestseller Mike Stackpole one more reason you may want to finish the book is that with a finished product you can know who to send it too.
He asks the writer to pose this question to themselves and their proofreaders. Which author already published is this book most in the style of?
When you know who its like, send the manuscript to that publishing house. Why? They already know how to market it, and can even put ads for your book in the next Robert Jordan, David Eddings (or whatever book) Heck they may even get them to look at it an submit a blurb. Plus its something that they look for (built in audience and all)
Then get yourself an agent... its apparently a lot easier when you say, TOR and I are in negotiation for a book I submitted than I have this book I'd like to send in.
You should listen to the Podcast ...
you can find it at this link here
http://stormwolf.com/podcasts/index.html
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Ah hah! That's where I read it. You find a publisher who prints your kinda stuff. This finding an agent and a publisher for my sci-fi/ fantasy is something I'm VERY interested in, seeing as I've been looking into it for years (and sending out with very little luck). I actually did the same thing with my romantic comedy, checked out who liked uh...maybe I shouldn't post that, oh, I'll do it, the shallow stuff (as opposed to um, deep).
Anyhoo, I'll just have to hit the bookstores and try it again with the sci-fi.
The only problem is I'm very unfamiliar with a lot of the sci-fi authors. To be perfectly honest, I read a lot of sci-fi and fantasy when I was a kid (loved Dragon Lance...I think it was the battle scenes and Tasselhof, though it took me forever to realize he wasn't just a teenage idol airhead--c'mon, I was in fifth grade and I started in the middle of the trilogy--I didn't get that concept either. When a particular someone died, my brother had to dry my tears and tell me there were more books and MAYBE, JUST MAYBE that particular someone didn't really die).
And now I just watch the sci-fi/ fantasy movies. Let's just say I stole my older brother's books and then when he left for college, I wasn't talented enough to find a good book on my own...and then I just read the assigned books in school from there. Perhaps admitting that is death, except that never really stopped my imagination or kept me away from my notebooks.
To make a long story short (or shall we say, I made it way longer than it needed to be), if anyone wants to take a look at my website (and like I said before, ignore that the background of the sci fi is in pink--one of my friends helping me out with it thinks he's hilarious...and he might have a point), it's www.stephaniefowers.com and if you want to look at the blurbs and tell me who writes a similar story, maybe I can look them up and figure out who's their agent (that's a hard one), but at least figure out their publisher and go from there. And if not, just take a look at it because it's fun. Let's just say I definitely have my favorites in there. And please ignore my blurbs for my romantic comedy (because you might think I'm serious AND I'm really just a jokester, but some people get so offended nowadays.)
I'll be checking out the bookstores. Thanks again and let me help you in any way I can too. My gmail account is posted on that site too, Steph
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Good ol' Tasselhof, what a way to die too. Think they brought him back to life latter on though, which is a shame, since I'm kind of a "once they die, they should be dead" type of guy.
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Yeah, well, I had no idea they could bring people back to life, that's why I was so upset! But then I guess I really didn't grow up on soap operas either.
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Nice website, guitarbabe. Saan ang mission mo sa Pilipinas? Nagserve ako sa Quezon City. Congrats sa pagpupublishing ng romance novel mo!
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Salamat! Nagmission ako sa Cabanatuan. Natawag Ilangapo gnayon (siguro). Gwabe (sp?) talaga on tagalog ko gnayon (mga limang taon nang bumalik ako), cave man na ako, pero ayos lang. Kailangan magpractice ulit.
TRANSLATION: Thank you. I served my mission in Cabanatuan, though I think it's called Ilangapo now. My Tagalog is so bad right now. It's been five years since I've returned and now I'm a cave man, oh well. I need the practice.
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wow, you two spell worse then I do. I couldn't even read what you wrote.
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LOL. Sprig, that just made my night. ;D
Guitarbabe, another good source of marketing research is the Writer's Market book. (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1582973946/ref=pd_sim_b_2/104-2301759-8840718?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=283155) Suprisingly, though, they don't have one geared just to SciFi/Fan, but I bet there is a section in the book. I am familiar with the Children's Writers and Illustrator's Market book, published by the same people, and it is very helpful. All my creative writing classes said these market books are a must have. If you can't afford it, or don't feel like buying a new one each year, check out the local library. I know the HBLL has a publishing lab and they are making more of an effort to have books like this.
Hope that helps some. :)
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Wljkewjp slkdljsk sdlperpowekr, so werweopiurewoiu (might be spelled wrong) skdjdk. "Rumor" banana?
Translation: I got back in '98, so I've been home a little while now, too. I thought they had stopped sending American sisters to the Philippines. "Rumor" lang ba ito?
To keep the thread on topic: Agents are a good idea. One of the best ways to find one is to go the conventions like WorldCon and World Fantasy and then ask the pros lots of questions. A contingent of Timewasters people are going to WorldCon in August. I'm sure there's plenty of room more.
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The more the merrier. This is getting to be a tradition.
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From how I understand it the Sci-fi/fantasy market is much more competitive then the LDS fiction market and some editors won't even read your stuff unless you have an agent.
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We're going to become the focus site for LDS fiction chat.
Good bye game and SF focus!
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Quick SE, start locking any non-nerd related threads!
Next think we know EUOL will be writing romance novels...oh wait he already is. ;D
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DANG! We've already lost one of our stalwarts!
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Ha, you guys are cracking me up. One quick thing before I have to go to work, there's a fantasy convention that one of my friends suggested, and I wanted to know if it was any good? The World Fantasy Convention in Texas? What can you expect from those anyway?
PS: You definitely should ALL write romance. I'd love to see the crazy adventures you'd come up with.
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any convention where the agents and publishers will be. WorldCon is in Anaheim this year, and there's a thread about for the TWGers who are going. It's a good one to show up for.
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World Fantasy is the networking con for writers, so yes. Go. EUOL met his editor at World Fantasy. Or was it his agent? He can answer that better than I can. All I know is that it seems to be one of his favorite stories to tell, how he met his editor and agent, and how much World Fantasy can do for new authors. I have an author who goes to it, too, and she says for her adult SF/F, it's the best con she goes to all year, though she's still starting out on that side, too.
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Parker and I went to World Fantasy in November. I met a lot of great people, sf and fantasy writers, editors, and a few agents. Parker's story's even better than that, but I'll let him tell it. The convention, though, was definitely worth the money to go. If I had more days off, I'd be in Austen in a heartbeat this coming year. Heck, I might even take it off without pay in order to go.
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We're going to become the focus site for LDS fiction chat.
My plan is coming along nicely. Excellent...
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World Fantasy is excellent, if for no other reason than that there is no "fandom": no gaming, no costumes, no furries, and hallelujah no filking. It's sort of a professional insider con that's a great place to network, and, as mentioned, it's where EUOL met his editor (I met him too, but he didn't like my book. Some people have no taste).
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Yeah--World Fantasy worked for me . . . sort of. EUOL's agent called me a few weeks ago to say that he didn't not like my story enough to reject me right away. He wanted to see another 50 pages. I believe the direct quote was "I'm just not sure if I want to read another 480 pages of this." Although he balanced that by saying "You win the award for the best synopsis I've seen." Right now he's theoretically reading through the next 50 pages that I sent him. Who knows--maybe I can sell it to him as a serial. (Mr. Bilmes, if you happen to read this, please note that I'm trying to be funny--and likely failing miserably. I am seriously grateful for your phone call and your willingness to read more. And I think this whole serial idea has merit. j/k).
Anyway--back to World Fantasy. If you're willing to go up to strangers and force yourself to talk to them and put yourself way out of your comfort zone, then go for it. It wasn't the easiest thing I've ever done, but I did it--and I'll do it again, dagnabit. They all get drunk, anyway, so what's there to be afraid of? I'll almost certainly be going again this year.
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Yeah, nothing to be scared of unless one is a drunk ninja editor and happens to hate your story pitch. The cheese they had there was scary, too. And that guy that jumped out at me on the way to the Greek place. He was scary--and I don't even think he was a ninja. :o And the Greek lady at the Greek place that told me that she'd lose her job over my visa-swiping. ??? Scary. Yeah, World Fantasy in Wisconsin was better than Halloween.
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I'm strongly considering trying to make it to World Fantasy rather than WorldCon.
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Well, World Fantasy is definitely the more professional of the two. But there won't be any anime rooms. ;D
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Are you trying to convince her not to go or to go? No anime rooms would be a plus in my book. Why not go to both, MsFish? ;)
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You talked me into it. I'm going to that convention (and that means a lot from a girl who still needs to fix her brakes and transmission--actually my brother took care of the brakes this weekend--sorta--he made me stand out in the cold doing absolutely nothing while every guy in the neighborhood had to wander over and inform me that I had the most obsolete brakes in the history of man--cool! He kind of jimmyrigged it, so we'll see if it lasts.)
Anyhoo, (hey, I used a space between my paragraphs, so this would be easier to read...I'm learning), I totally know what you mean by being willing to throw yourself out there and talk about your book--that probably HAS to be the hardest part. I remember handing out fliers at the Wilk for my book. Man, those girls get catty. At least I will be going with a friend to this convention who knows a little bit how to do it. She'll be excited that I'm going!
So, that means I'll have to be majorly prepared in November (of course that's a while away BUT...), what did you guys (excuse my vernacular, this means the girls too--I'm so used to saying guys--I even call the kindergarteners that). Anyway, what did you all bring? Query letters? The first three chapters? Pictures? What was the most effective thing that you did? And I have more than one book, should I just choose one?--and then go from there?
Thanks, this is awesome advice!
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You should not take a manuscript or even sample chapters. The agents and editors are most likely traveling to the convention, and they don't want to get weighed down with more stuff. If they want to see your manuscript or query, they'll tell you to mail it to them. (But you get to put the magic words "Requested Material" on the envelope.)
I take business cards, but those are more for handing out to other authors I meet than to agents and editors.
What you really need, in case you get asked, is your verbal pitch. You'll need a one-sentence logline for your novel(s), and if they want to hear more, a spoken version of your query letter's explanation of your book.
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Yeah--good advice about that verbal pitch. And I'd recommend practicing it like 85 times. I still don't have mine down, and I sound like an idiot whenever I'm forced to talk about my books. Bringing anything on paper wouldn't be a great idea. If you're REALLY worried that some agent/editor is going to want to see your story NOW, then maybe you could bring an electronic copy and print one out if the need arises. But don't get your hopes too high.
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Why not go to both, MsFish? ;)
Money. Do you think you guys will be going to WF this year? Travelling companions would make things cheaper.
My rationale is that if I can only make it to one, I should go to the more professional one where I'm less likely to end up spending my time goofing off with friends and marvelling at fandom stuff. I love my friends, but I can't justify the money for fun. It has to be a buisness trip, or I just simply can't go.
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If I can get it off work, I'll definitely be going to World Fantasy. And the anime rooms was a joke (referring to goofing off) and not a way of convincing anyone to go or not go. World Fantasy this year had a lot of Young Adult panels, too, with people who actually knew what they were talking about (unlike the Nasfic YA panels). I don't know if that's an every-year thing, but it would be right up your alley, Fish.
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Wow, no one told me that. Perhaps *I* should go to WF. And be on a panel. :)
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I'll have to consider it. I really want to go to both, actually, but it's going to depend on the money thing, because I need to go to BYU's YA con this summer more than any of the others, so that one takes monetary precedence.
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Hey, is the BYU YA con (I totally had to look up that lingo), is that in the summer? Someone told me there might be one next month? Is that just wishful thinking? We were talking about writer's conferences at this Schooled Magazine meeting and a guy totally thought there was one in March.
I DO know for sure that there's an LDStorymakers writing conference in March (I get to be a flunky and pass out fliers or something).
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BYU's science fiction and fantasy symposium is next month: http://www.ltue.org/
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Oh wow! You guys really know everything, don't you? I'm totally going.
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If you're into YA, Guitarbabe, then you might also have heard about the conference (not con) that BYU's having in a week or two. Some big YA authors are going to be there--I think it's more of a symposium than a conference, really. They have a week long writing conference in the summer that's totally worth it. Dave Wolverton will be doing the Fantasy group this year. $400 for the week, and there's usually at least one agent and one editor there, as well as many YA authors who know what they're talking about.
MsFish--is that the one you'll be going to? Which section? And yes, I plan on going to both WorldCon and World Fantasy this year. I feel like after the response I got last time, I'd be dum not to.
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Guitarbabe, another good source of marketing research is the Writer's Market book. Suprisingly, though, they don't have one geared just to SciFi/Fan
Actually, there is. They don't update it all that often though.
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Parker, where can we find details on the upcoming YA writing conference?
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Hm, is the upcoming YA conference/symposium (not the one in the summer) new? It wasn't around when I was there, I think. Very cool that they're focusing on it.
I've thought about coming down for LTUE, and did go so far as to ask if work might find the possibility of paying for my airfare down, but I'm thinking it probably won't happen. Actually, looking at CONduit's schedule (if I were to pop down for a local con--I have an author who lives in Spanish), it might be a little more interesting. Shannon Hale's going to be at that, too.
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It's been around for at least 2 years, many of the out of town speakers stay at the Cotten Tree.
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The upcoming Children's/YA con that guitarbabe has heard about may be the one I've gone to the past two years in March. It is not at BYU--it's at UVSC. It is called the Forum on Children's Literature, and it is for teachers, writers, illustrators, and librarians. The link is here. (http://www.uvsc.edu/conted/c&w/forumChildrenLiterature/) I have attended twice and found it to be very good. If you are a student, it is the best deal around--I think it's like only $35 for both days, and you get fed. If you're not, it's a little over $100 I believe. Still probably worth it--because you get to meet an editor and local writers, plus the special guests--but still not as good of a deal as when you're a student (which is why I got to go the last two years no problem).
I found this event to be more organized and helpful than Nasvic (the con we went to last September). The nice thing is that they had an editor from a good Children's/YA press each year--Candlewick two years ago and I think HarperCollins last year, I'd have to check my notes--and both times the editors said, "Since you are at this con, anything you send to me you can mark as 'requested material'"--and they said this whether you talked to them or not in person, they just announced it to everyone. And the break-out classes are NOT panels, so people actually plan and put together good, helpful information. I recommend it.
If you can only do one, though, do BYU's YA Conference in the summer--the writing one. I went two years ago, and it was very good. Some people on the board went last year and didn't find the workshopping part as helpful, but you still get to meet two editors and an agent, and the afternoon break-out classes have lots of information usually. Besides, you never know when Chris Crowe might perform Britney Spears again--he did it two years ago when I went! Definitely worth the $400. ;)
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Actually, there is. They don't update it all that often though.
Where do you find it? I did a basic search on Amazon and came up only with the Children's and the General.
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Ah, then, okay. I know about that one. That's the one I went to my last year there, and wished I'd known about it longer. I concur with Chimera's assessment of it--it's a very, very good conference, and it's sponsored by SCBWI.
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I just called the registration people for UVSC's Forum on Children's Literature (see above long post from me), and because I am defering for a semester and still technically a student, I can get the discount and get the whole deal for $35. Being a perpetual student has it's perks, I guess. ;)
I am seriously considering coming up and going to it. 35 bucks for a good con, you can't beat that. And the middle of March is probably a good time to go apartment hunting in Salt Lake, making my final decisions about where I'm going to live. So I may visit in March! Yay!
I'm also considering coming up for LTUE, but don't get your hopes up. It kind of depends on gas prices or if some friends want to carpool to Provo.
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Wow, March is just the time for writer's conferences!
Oh, Stacer and Chimera (all of yas), so you write children's books too? So, do I. Well, I'm trying to anyway. I call them 'Twisted Tales' and they're fairy tales twisted (that was a little bit self-explanatory). I came up with them in an elementary school cafetera, trying to get a kid to eat (he lived on a feeding tube, so of course he was NEVER hungry). But everytime he took a bite, I'd plunge into some crazy story, and if he stopped, I'd stop. The kids were desperate to get him to eat just so they could hear the rest of the stories. They even got in trouble for staying in for lunch recess.
My friend was even going to help me illustrate my books, but he got way too busy (he's an illustrator for some TigerWoods video games).
So, are you going to the UVSC one, Chimera? I have to check the dates on all of these things, so I can decide which ones I'll be able to go to. My teacher (what?--my teacher?--that's what sitting on the rug and listening to stories all day does to me), anyway, my supervisers are going to wonder why I'm suddenly running off to these March things?
Hey, do you think they'll count going to kindergarten as still being a student? I would love to turn stuff into HarperCollins as requested material.
Steph...ur, guitarbabe
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I wasn't kidding, and I wasn't talking about UVSC's conference in March:
Mid-winter Symposium on Books for Young Readers
Saturday, January 28, 2006
8:00 a.m.–4:30 p.m.
Provo City Library at Academy Square
Provo, Utah
The first annual BYU Mid-Winter Symposium on Books for Young Readers will feature Katherine Paterson, two-time Newbery Medal Winner; Eric Rohmann, Caldecott Medal Winner; and Kimberley Heuston, award-winning author and teacher.
This event is sponsored by Brigham Young University’s Department of Teacher Education, Harold B. Lee Library, Bookstore, Division of Continuing Education, and the Provo City Library at Academy Square.
Space is limited, so register early!
You have to register by Friday, BTW, and it costs $79.
As to info about the summer writing conference, Eric, it's not posted yet. I see Chris Crowe at the library quite a bit, and I chat to him about it when he comes in--that's where I get my info. When they do post info, it'll likely be here:
http://ce.byu.edu/cw/writing/
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Oh, Stacer and Chimera (all of yas), so you write children's books too?
I tend to write more Young Adult (YA) and middle grade (MG), but actually I've done it all. (Do you like how I'm slowly teaching you all the abbreviations? Now you'll be able to understand my posts.)
I took a picture book (PB) class and wrote several picture books, then like two actual "Writing for Children and Young Adult" classes, then in both my uppergrade writing classes I wrote children's/YA , and in EUOL's scifi/fan class I started a YA fantasy novel I'm still working on. (Which is a class you might consider taking. Several of us on the board have, and then you could get all his info about how to break into scifi/fan in his lectures.)
So, yes, I've written picture books. But my first love seems to be upper YA (like for 16 year olds and up).
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I wasn't kidding, and I wasn't talking about UVSC's conference in March:
Mid-winter Symposium on Books for Young Readers
This is new. They have a symposium of the same name that they do in the summer--perhaps it has done well enough that now they've decided to do a "mid-winter" one as well.
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Heh, I'd totally carpool with you if it wasn't already a 20 hour drive between us. But if you go, I'll go.
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To which? LTUE or the UVSC forum?
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I'm also considering coming up for LTUE, but don't get your hopes up. It kind of depends on gas prices or if some friends want to carpool to Provo.
Heh, I'd totally carpool with you if it wasn't already a 20 hour drive between us. But if you go, I'll go.
(Sorry, just realized it was unattributed.)
But for that matter, I think I'd rather go to UVSC.
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That settles it. If you will go, I'll go. I mean, it's only $35 for me. And--I'm pretty sure I can get my friend Paul to come (you know stacer, the one starting his own publishing business). I'll be able to convince him that this is the sort of place he needs to go to network and get his books out--because it's true. So, I'm almost guaranteed to have at least one helper with gas money.
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Oo, cool. I'll have freelance money in by March, so I think it'd be a great time to get out of town--the rain will not have stopped yet in Seattle, and I'll be aching to see the sun again. Let's plan on it.
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Definitely worth the $400. ;)
Um, their website says $144. Please tell me it's not actually $400.
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Yeah, that's what I'm confused about too. $400? That's pretty steep for me, but I just looked it up and it's $135 if you're not a student and you're an early bird. I just looked up that BYU one too, Parker. That one IS $400? It looks nice...if you have the funds. You'd probably get some pretty good connections there too. Maybe another year (if I ever strike it rich).
Oh, and thanks for the acronym lessons, Chimera
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Yeah, the summer BYU writing conference (the week long one), is indeed $400. But if you live in the area, it works out to being a fantastic price for what you get. (If you have to fly in, on the other hand, then that nulls out the get-out-of-travel-expenses bonus.) But you get five four hour days of being in a class with an established YA author of the genre of your choice. That alone is worth the networking right there. I went last year and was in Tracy Hickman's class, and I feel like if I'm ever in the position to ask him for a cover quote, I could comfortably do so now. But in addition to that, you get to meet all sorts of other authors at the breakout sessions, and you hear from editors first hand, get to add the "requested materials" line to the outside of your envelope . . . lots of bonuses. If you're serious about writing as a business, look at it as an investment. It's worth the money, no doubt about it in my mind.
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Oh, you threw in Traci Hickman! A weak spot. I totally believe you that it would be a good investment, but I'll probably have to take these investments one step at a time. I DID sign up for the World FantasyCon. It was completely unlike me...spending money, that is. But who knows? I'll do some more investigating.
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It's worth the money, no doubt about it in my mind.
Yeah, I'm sure it is worth the investment. But I can't do this one and the others, then. I just simply don't have the cash. I'm starving myself to try to get to them as it is. That really really sucks.
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Where do you find it? I did a basic search on Amazon and came up only with the Children's and the General.
Ah. We just bought it in the bookstore when it came out. Which was in 1994, apparently. ISBN 0-89879-692-X --Amazon shows 39 used & new from $0.01!!!
So the stuff in it will be out of date, but a lot is probably still useful. You won't want to get names and specific publishing houses' guidelines from there though. The Novel & Short Story Writer's Market is probably good for that. And then there's online sites like ralan.com that have good info.
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I agree with Ookla. Ralan.com is almost as useful as the Writers Markets, and the information is a lot more recent.
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Hey--I'm thinking about doing the UVSC thing, but they don't have any info on when it runs--as in the time of day. Those of you more in the know, care to tell me what the schedule is usually like? Much appreciative.
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Let's see. The first day you register, and then they have the big name author speak at a combined opening meeting. In the middle of the day you break for lunch, and after lunch before the classes start they have the booksignings. Otherwise, the entire time is composed of classes--good, informative, organized classes with one or two people presenting them. They tend to have a class for writers, one for librarians, one for illustrators, etc. in the same hour. Oh, and the visiting editor always seems to have a class/question and answer session in the two-day period. So you pick what class looks of interest to you and you go to it. Each hour I always found at least one class I wanted, often two, and would split up with my friends and they'd take notes in one and I'd take notes in the other. So, yeah, you go to classes most of the time. Then it all ends around 4. And you have to make an effort to network in between, if you want to.
Something new they are doing this year is having a critique group on Thursday night. Read this link (http://www.uvsc.edu/conted/c&w/forumChildrenLiterature/06/Attendee%20Confirmation%20Letter.pdf) and look under "Peer Critique Group" to get the details. This is new so I have no idea how effective it is. I'll probably check it out, though.
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Thanks for the info--I think I might do this. Can't beat it for the $.
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Same here! Thanks for mentioning it!
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Wow! This forum folder has really taken off since the last time I left a reply.
I was wondering. A question for EUOL and anyone else who might know: How much does your agent, Mr. Blimes, charge, both domestically and internationally?
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I think (but could be wrong) Joshua Bilmes takes 15%...it's a fairly standard rate, though Scott Card in his How-To Write SF book said never give more than 10%...Dave Wolverton/Farland said that the good agents will earn you back that extra 5% in foreign rights, and that has certainly happened for Brandon. Then there are people like Lee Modesitt who I believe said he doesn't have an agent except for ancillary rights issues.
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There was a time when 10% was standard. Then, slowly, the agents started to push that number up. When Mr. Card wrote his book, the authors were fighting this creep, and he was right--giving away more than 10% wasn't necessary.
For various reasons, however, 15% has become the standard. Joshua only upgraded to this a few years ago. Now, it's pretty hard to find one that takes less than 15, especially on a new author.
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Sorry. I should have made myself more clear. The foreign rates. Those seem to differ greatly, usually its 20-25 percent. But I've seen it for as little as 15 and as much as 30 and I was wondering where Mr. Blimes internationally.
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b-I-L-m-e-s
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b-I-L-m-e-s
Thanks for pointing that out, Ookla. I mispelled it. Twice.
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20%, Lantern. 10 for Joshua, 10 for the other agent.
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Thank you very much! That's awesome. Everyone's been very helpful.
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Oh? So Joshua has agent contacts in these other countries who approach the publishers?
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I know that's the case in Japan Ookla.