Timewaster's Guide Archive

Departments => Books => Topic started by: Spriggan on May 17, 2003, 12:10:43 PM

Title: Transformers/GI JOE comic
Post by: Spriggan on May 17, 2003, 12:10:43 PM
Well I'm not sure if it's any good but this cover rocks.  It's a weird mix of transformers and GI JOE during WWII.

(http://www.dreamwaveprod.ca/!newsite/images/preview_TFGiJoe_may14_03/TFGIJoe_PAT01.jpg)
Title: Re: Transformers/GI JOE comic
Post by: Tage on May 19, 2003, 01:45:04 PM
Ha, is that for real or some kind of joke?
Title: Re: Transformers/GI JOE comic
Post by: Spriggan on May 19, 2003, 02:02:40 PM
nope it's real.  A 6 part series that starts in June.
Title: Re: Transformers/GI JOE comic
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on May 19, 2003, 10:46:33 PM
G.I. Joe and Transformers cross over all the time. It was probably only a matter of time before they tried different eras in time.
Title: Re: Transformers/GI JOE comic
Post by: Entsuropi on May 20, 2003, 08:14:42 AM
They will probably pull the usual american tv/film trick of politely forgetting that the war did not begin in 1941
Title: Re: Transformers/GI JOE comic
Post by: Spriggan on May 20, 2003, 09:10:51 AM
the comic takes place in 1939 and instead of hitler you have cobra commander takeing over half of europe.
Title: Re: Transformers/GI JOE comic
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on May 20, 2003, 09:28:02 AM
Besides, it's not that we think the war started in 1941, it's that we think the part of the war that MATTERS started in 1941.  ;D
Title: Re: Transformers/GI JOE comic
Post by: House of Mustard on May 20, 2003, 03:31:16 PM
The Brits aren't much better, or were you actually referring to 1931 when Japan invaded Manchuria?
Title: Re: Transformers/GI JOE comic
Post by: Entsuropi on May 20, 2003, 04:09:10 PM
Heh. That was a different war that just happened to be later regarded as part of the same war. Who cares what happens to the chinese mainland?
Title: Re: Transformers/GI JOE comic
Post by: House of Mustard on May 20, 2003, 06:48:01 PM
Likewise, who cares what happens to England.  The war started in 1941.
Title: Re: Transformers/GI JOE comic
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on May 20, 2003, 11:43:15 PM
What war?  Nobody shot at me.
Title: Re: Transformers/GI JOE comic
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on May 21, 2003, 12:34:11 AM
Except those rabid Robert Jordan fans...
Title: Re: Transformers/GI JOE comic
Post by: Entsuropi on May 21, 2003, 08:29:35 AM
Your failing to make sense mustard... the manchurian incident was a war between japan and china. Largly seperate from anything else.

WW2 was a war against germany. Thus, anyone fighting against germany was in WW2.

To put it another way... you said ages ago that at the same time as the american revolution, there was rebellions in other british colonies. Would you say those colonies were fighting in the american revolution?
Title: Re: Transformers/GI JOE comic
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on May 21, 2003, 11:38:17 AM
Now who's ignoring things? The "Axis" and the "Allies" were opponents in WWII. THe Axis being defined as Germany, Italy and JAPAN. I know you lazy brits didn't go up against the Japanese much in the war, but you *should* know that if the Japanese didn't attack Pearl Harbor than there's a good chance you'd be speaking German right now.
Title: Re: Transformers/GI JOE comic
Post by: Entsuropi on May 21, 2003, 12:36:11 PM
Yes. We were actually "fighting" them (we would have done a better job if our commanders were not muppets who surrendered at the drop of a hat) at the same time. But the fact remains, the manchurian incident was not WW2.
Title: Re: Transformers/GI JOE comic
Post by: Spriggan on May 21, 2003, 12:41:32 PM
once the US got involved then It became part of WW2.  Since we were fighting both wars at the same time.  American history books put them as the same war, so there :P
Title: Re: Transformers/GI JOE comic
Post by: Fellfrosch on May 21, 2003, 12:53:14 PM
The Manchurian incident was a part of the same war just like all of Germany's preliminary strikes were part of the same war. Just because it took a while before all of the elements came together doesn't mean that they never did.
Title: Re: Transformers/GI JOE comic
Post by: Entsuropi on May 21, 2003, 12:59:19 PM
Quote
just like all of Germany's preliminary strikes were part of the same war.


You are the first person to say that. Generally, they are regarded as the run up to the war, not part of the war itself. The Rhineland was not WW2.
Title: Re: Transformers/GI JOE comic
Post by: Spriggan on May 21, 2003, 01:01:01 PM
I should get Steve, my roomate, to come settle this.  All he does is read books on WW2 and play Video games.  I think he's got like 20+ on the subject.
Title: Re: Transformers/GI JOE comic
Post by: Entsuropi on May 22, 2003, 09:22:28 AM
Quote
Japanese didn't attack Pearl Harbor than there's a good chance you'd be speaking German right now.


Not likely... we would either be speaking english or russian.

If the germans had conquered britain, which was looking pretty damn unlikely at the time of pearl harbour, then when russia won we would have been sumsumed into the motherland.

If we held the germans off, as was likely, then the cold war would have been situated at the english channel.
Title: Re: Transformers/GI JOE comic
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on May 22, 2003, 11:50:27 AM
You honestly think that Germany would have been destroyed by Russia alone without Germany having to divide it's military resources to mulitiple fronts? I don't think Germany could have taken Russia, but neither do I think Russia would have simply been able to liberate all of Europe without a western front.
Title: Re: Transformers/GI JOE comic
Post by: Entsuropi on May 22, 2003, 12:04:24 PM
Yes. Russia had an enourmous military. After stalingrad, there was nothing stopping them. The german army in the east would have been nailed just like it was, and the western troops would have been able to only slow that.

And they would have needed to keep lots of troops in france just to deter a british landing aimed at helping a french uprising. It might not have been terribly likely, but it would have been real enough to necessitate lots of troops in france.
Title: Re: Transformers/GI JOE comic
Post by: House of Mustard on May 22, 2003, 12:47:43 PM
Wow.  I ignore the topic for a couple of days and it all goes to heck.

Where to begin?
1)  Japan invaded China, who just happened to be an ally of the U.S..  I find it comical that you refer to an invasion, and a decade long occupation as an 'incident.'  Japan was tromping around shooting things long before Pearl Harbor.  It was very much part of the war in the sense that it was all done for exactly the same reason: to build the Southeast Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere.  You're making a very eurocentric argument there: "Because the war was in Asia it wasn't part of the World War."

2)  
Quote
Generally, they are regarded as the run up to the war, not part of the war itself. The Rhineland was not WW2


Rhineland?  How was the Rhineland a preliminary strike?  The germans marched on in, gave a couple of high-fives to the local government and never took the safety's off their rifles.  This was thanks, in part, to the fact that the Rhineland was disputed territory anyway, and no one wanted to start a war over it.  It was also thanks, in part, to Neville "Appeasement" Chamberlain.  He was a winner.

Regardless, the point is that Rhineland wasn't a 'preliminary strike' and it can't be compared to a bloody invasion.  Perhaps you could compare the Manchurian Invasion to Poland - Oh wait!  That is when the European war started!

3)  Germany couldn't have conquered Britain?  It wasn't a sure thing, but odds were probably in favor of Germany.  I will most certainly concede that the Battle of Britain went poorly for the Reich, but that's not where things would end.  The german army was larger, better equipped and better supplied.  The germans were getting darn close to owning the Atlantic before the US came wandering over.  It wouldn't have been hard to render the UK impotent.  Really, all Germany had to do was surround the islands, wiping out any attempt at a navy, to end the war.  You could have gone and bombed the crap out of Germany all you wanted, but, without any possibility of invasion, you would have had little logical justification for it.  The most likely event was that Germany would control Europe and make temporary peace with Britain.

3)  Russia poses a problem.  I would venture to guess that if the Germans weren't so worried about invasion on the west, and all the North Africa business, then they would have taken Moscow in 42.

Furthermore, if Germany wasn't being so befuddled in North Africa, then they would have had considerably less reason to throw themselves on Stalingrad's spears.  (Incidentally, even as it was, almost every historian believes that Germany could have done substantially better against Russia if they'd just ignored Stalingrad.  It wasn't a question of the Russians being better - they weren't - the Germans just made some really really bad operational decisions.)  Anyway, if Germany had been able to get the oil they wanted from the Middle East (by controlling the Mediteranean via North Africa) then they would have had much less reason to go invading the Caucuses.
Title: Re: Transformers/GI JOE comic
Post by: House of Mustard on May 22, 2003, 01:13:43 PM
I forgot to address something:
Quote
you said ages ago that at the same time as the american revolution, there was rebellions in other british colonies. Would you say those colonies were fighting in the american revolution?


No.  Of course not.  I would say, however, that the American Revolution was part of a grander British war that included France, Spain and India (to name a few.)  Some colonies (like India) saw the revolution in America as an ideal opportunity to start a rebellion of their own.  Other countries like France and Spain saw it as a good opportunity to attack an old enemy.

The attack by Spanish and French forces on Gibralter in 1781 had nothing to do with America.  Then again, the attack on Pearl Harbor had nothing to do with Germany.  The question, however, is: Did the two attacks affect each other?  Certainly.

Spain was not fighting the American Revolution, much as Italy was not participating in the Invasion of Manchuria.  But the American Revolution was part of a larger British war, and the Invasion of Manchuria was part of World War 2.
Title: Re: Transformers/GI JOE comic
Post by: EUOL on May 23, 2003, 03:13:06 PM
I believe there's an old saying that warns against two miltary ideas:

First, never get involved in a land war in Asia.  Second, never get in an argument with Mustard about World War II.  
Title: Re: Transformers/GI JOE comic
Post by: House of Mustard on May 23, 2003, 04:51:42 PM
Ah EUOL, thanks for the compliment (assuming that is a compliment).  I truly look forward to the day when you and I can again argue inane things in exceptionally long posts.
Title: Re: Transformers/GI JOE comic
Post by: EUOL on May 24, 2003, 12:15:18 AM
Just don't expect me to let myself get sucked into any sort of historical war argument again.  Learned my lesson last time....
Title: Re: Transformers/GI JOE comic
Post by: Entsuropi on May 24, 2003, 08:10:22 AM
Quote
Second, never get in an argument with Mustard about World War II.


I had pretty much figured that out halfway through this thread. Damn you mustard! I'll get you yet! *shakes fist*

And on the subject of inane arguments, i remember some of those. Like the "can god be omnipotent?" thread.

It is probably only a matter of time before the habit of you two to argue and the habit of me and SE to argue creates some hideous evil monster...
Title: Re: Transformers/GI JOE comic
Post by: Tiger on May 24, 2003, 08:19:56 PM
I thought the famous quote was: "Never fight a land war in Asia" and "Never bet a Sicilian when Death is on the line"

Anyway, I got into this late.  If anyone wants to watch a great movie about the Brits fighting the Japanese, go rent 'Bridge Over the River Kwai' (I hope that is the right time frame, I remember it being WWII).

Also, remember that you can never eliminate Indiana Jones from the WWII picture, who knows what crazy adventures he might have gotten into if the US hadn't entered the war...
Title: Re: Transformers/GI JOE comic
Post by: Entsuropi on May 24, 2003, 08:22:56 PM
Yes, thats a good WW2 flick. Of course, i am the subject of british conditioning, which tells me to search out british alternatives to anything foreign. ;)
Title: Re: Transformers/GI JOE comic
Post by: Tiger on May 24, 2003, 08:40:23 PM
Pretty ironic, that conditioning.  Here in the US, we often just rip off what everyone else does and try to make it our own.  Take all the British TV shows that are remade for the American market: Who's Line Is It Anyway, American Idol, Weakest Link, etc...
Title: Re: Transformers/GI JOE comic
Post by: 42 on May 24, 2003, 08:40:56 PM
"Bridge Over the River Kwai" is one of my favourites, next to "The Great Escape."

And yes the US does borrow heavily from other countries ideas, the difference is that in the US people generally have more cash to spend on the copy.
Title: Re: Transformers/GI JOE comic
Post by: Tiger on May 24, 2003, 08:58:43 PM
Yeah, The Great Escape is another classic.  Have you ever seen "The Big Red 1''  Its about the US 1st Army in Italy if I remember right.  It even has Mark Hammill in a non-Star Wars, non-soft porno role.  Plus, it has Lee Marvin, I think he is in every WWII movie ever made in the US.  What other actor says WWII like Lee Marvin.
Title: Re: Transformers/GI JOE comic
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on May 24, 2003, 10:07:32 PM
Yeah, I saw "Bridge...". I could never figure out why Obi Wan didn't whip out his light saber and kill all the bad guys....
Title: Re: Transformers/GI JOE comic
Post by: House of Mustard on May 25, 2003, 09:43:58 PM
Colonel Saito is the same guy that played the Pirate King in The Swiss Family Robinson.  Obi Wan wouldn't need a lightsaber - just some exploding coconuts and a tiger in a pit.