Timewaster's Guide Archive
Games => Table-Top Games => Topic started by: Fellfrosch on July 29, 2003, 04:56:07 PM
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They call it 2.0, but it's actually very similar--old sets are still 100% compatible, and the powers and basic rules aren't changing. They are adding a few things, however, that sound pretty fun.
http://www.wizkidsgames.com/mageknight/article.asp?cid=38071&frame=news
I have to say, though, I'm pretty upset about the fact that every starter will include the same set figure. It's free, I suppose, but I'd rather have a free random figure.
Here's a more detailed look at the new dial: http://www.wizkidsgames.com/mageknight/article.asp?frame=howtoplay&cid=36912
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Okay. I can see what they're tryin gto do here, and I like some of it--but I'll have to be seriously convinced about some of the other stuff. It looks like we'll be getting some new factions, which is fine, and we'll be getting some subfactions--which, according to the description, is the new Mage Knight version of Heroclix Team Abilities. I think team abilities are wonderful, and the system of factions and subfactions has a ton of very exciting possibilities. To that I say huzzah.
The new dial window is slightly larger to accomodate the "ability nexus," which is essentially a fifth slot for a special ability. Given that Mage Knight already incorporates up to two abilities per stat, the nexus seems designed to let them use three powers for a single stat--which makes sense, given that the damage stat is already eaten up by the green starting marker. I doubt it will be used often, and it's pretty easy to read, so I doubt it will make an enormous impact. To that I say meh.
The new stats, I think, are way more confusing that they need to be. Instead of five (speed, attack, defense, damage, range) we get seven (speed, attack, defense, damage, range, ranged damage, and attack bonus), and on top of that we have all kinds of wacky crap like damage type and weapon proficiency. The dial is cluttered, and needlessly so in my opinion--does the game really need attack bonuses? Are damage types important enough to warrant the confusion they'll cause? Hasn't a single damage stat served us well this far? Adding in all of this new info makes the game harder to play without adding any new depth--just extraneous details that the old system handled more elegantly. To that I say boo.
I appreciate where they're going here--they've refined the clix system over the past several games, and they wanted to apply some of the new advancements to Mage Knight to make it work better. Team abilities and items seem like a good way of doing this, and the ability nexus will help counteract some flaws in the initial design of the special abilities. But some of the other changes seem tacked on for the sake of being different, and while they won't ruin the game I don't think they'll help it much either. I'm willin gto be convinced, though, so we'll see what happens in November when it comes out.
(I'd like to point out, though, that the addition of items will make our old plans for Mage Knight Diablo 2 much more feasible. I'll have to put some more thought into that...)
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Someday you'll have to teach us how to play and have a little mini-tournament with all your Heroclix characters, Fell. Maybe we'd understand what you're saying then. :)
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Don't worry, Fell, I hear ya!
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This page has some of the new special abilities and all of the new team abilities. Very cool stuff: http://www.wizkidsgames.com/mageknight/article.asp?cid=38246&frame=howtoplay
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The more I hear of the update the more I like it. I always enjoyed Mage Knight, but never played as much as I would have liked. I think I'm going to be all over the relaunch.
I think these new abilities and the backward compatability sold me on it. I'll reserve final judgement until I get a better look at things, but so far, so good!
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I'm saveing up for 1 starter and 2 boosters, so Fell you've got to teach me to play once it's out.
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Sprig, the rules for the game are suprisingly simple. They make it very easy to learn, but still maintain a lot of strategy. Here's the probable timeline:
Minute 0: Open package, admire figs
Minute 1: Pick up rulebook, start reading.
Minute 5: Pick up Special ABility card, peruse, continue reading rules
Minute 7: Rules well grasped, start thinking up strategy.
Minute 8: Play!
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Spriggan, you can download all the rules you ever need off the internet :)
http://www.wizkids.com is the site i think.
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Try www.wizkidsgames.com instead.
You might have a tad bit more success.
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I haven't actually read through this yet, so I can't vouch for it's usefulness in learning how the game works, but it looks cool and should give you an idea.
http://www.wizkidsgames.com/mageknight/article.asp?cid=38328&frame=gameresources
Edit: I just read through it, and it's very good.
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So it's out now, as of yesterday I believe, and in my current situation I can't erally justify going out and buying any. Has anybody tried it out yet? Are the new rules confusing? Are the relics cool? What say ye?
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Well I got one starter and 4 boosters. I'm still looking though things but I think I got a coupple cool things. Anyway I'm basicaly free to get together bascialy anytime in the next two weeks.
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Sigh
I said I was out, but after reading the rules I couldn't resist.
They fixed the major problems I had with 1.0 and did it simply.
Plus I have the hundreds of 1.0 figs.
So I bought a starter and 5 boosters. Sigh. I really shouldn't have.
No Uniques yet and I've gotten almost all constructed terrain. Only one relic other than the one in the starter. I really want to get soem domains.
I'm very impressed.
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I got 1 unique it was a speical one that came as a bonus with my starter. The only relic I got was the one with the starter, and I have 2 domains. I realy like the terran cards, but they should have packaged them sepertaly in like a card only booster, there's not reason to get them in the figure booster since the domains and relics are what people want.
LOL also I could make a 300 point elvan archer army easly with all the ones I got.
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I hear you on Elven Archers...I have a ton! That and Orc Warbeasts. Which is good since KI and Orcs are my favorite armies.
I do have hte unique from the starter, 2 of him actually, since they were giving him away as a promo too. And I was wrong, I have 3 relics...the magic bow, the magic rifle, and the Tezla Anti-magic staff.
My only domain is River Valley, which I find incredibly cool.
I'm really jazzed about the rule changes. Surge and the Rule of Three really corrected my biggest problems with the 1.0 rules and the faction abilities and wide range of SAs offers so many more possibilities.
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Maybe it's a good thing that I only got 1 equipment, only the promo guy has slots for them. It's cool though, Decapitor a relic that removes any damages figure from the game. But if you roll a critical miss the weilder is instead killed.
I was also putting together my terrin and realised that one of them is only 1 of 3 for an item (stone watch tower) so I need 2 more cards to ever use it, that sucks.
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Yeah, I got one piece of the stone watchtower too...and 2 or the 3 for the leather tent. And a stone wall, which I think is complete by itself.
One thing I'm still not completely sure on is what is and isn't constrained by Rule of Three. I know attack bonuses aren't, but I think virtually every other modifier is. I think. The rules are a little unclear.
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even attack bonuses are modified by the rule of three, but it's your modified bonus that can't be more then 3. So if you have a +10 attack bonus it donsen't become 3 right away, but first you have to take all the negatives into affect first. So you have a +10 to attack and you're trying to shoot me. To hit my guy you have a -5 so you subtrack 5 from 10 leaveing 5 (of course) then you implement the rule of three.
But I'm not sure exactly how to affect other things with it yet. I still need to read more of the rules
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Actually, because Attack Bonuses are not modifiers and the Rule of Three only applies to modifiers, I believe that attack bonuses cannot be reduced by the RoT.
So if I have a +2 AB and it gets modified to a +5, the max it will be is +5.
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I took that example out of the rule books Mr.P. It specificaly says attack bonuses there.
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If you are refering to the example in the Rule of Three section, it does not include attack bonuses.
The primary attacker's ability is being modified by a ranged combat formation and a back strike which are subjected to the Rule of Three because they are modifiers. It makes no mention of an actual Attack Bonus.
That said, I don't have the book handy, but I did read that section a few times to try to get things straight.
The book goes out of its way to specify that attack bonuses are not modifiers and hence are not subject to the Rule of Three.
edit---just checked the online rules. The attacked in the example does not have an Attack Bonus, as I said. The section on the previous page on Modifiers clears up the difference.
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guess I'm just confused as to what attack modifiers is. But from how I took the example it was the MODIFIED attack bonus that was subject to the rule of three.
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Actually, this discussion has helped me work through my confusion on it.
Here's your answer:
Models that have and attack bonus have it listed overlapping the type of attack icon (right over the sword, for instance). This is a bonus that applies to all rolls using that attack. As above, this is not a modifier.
Modifiers are bonuses from formations, special abilities, relics, and proficiencies that add to your roll. These are affected by the Rule of Three.
So the way it looks, you always get your attack bonus, if you have one, but every modifier to the roll is limited by the Rule of Three.